FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

God, in his kindness, will just sort of shave off little parts of you at a time as you can take it, as you can receive it.

Yes, I think this side of heaven we continue to unpack and try to get more and more like Jesus.

But it starts with that humble heart.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. You can find us at Family Life, familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.

Hey, we're Dave and Ann Wilson. We just got off the Family Life Love Like You Mina Cruise, and again, it was absolutely, and I'm not exaggerating, fantastic.

Speaker 2

You have got to go on this cruise. And now is the time to sign up. The cruise will be next year, 2026, February 14th through the 21st, which, by.

Speaker 3

The way, is our 15th annual cruise and our 50th year of family life. So it's going to be an epic, epic. Can I say it again? Epic cruise.

You don't want to miss this one. And you can sign up right now in March because you get the lowest price of the year if you sign up during March.

Speaker 2

And listen to this. We're currently closing in on being 60% full, so. So get your tickets now.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So you can sign up right now@familylife today.com or give us a call at 1-800-358-6329. That's 800F, as in family, L as in life and the word today.

Speaker 2

And this is the great part about today. You're going to get to hear a message from the cruise by Ron and Nan Deal, which to me was one of my favorites. They're all so good. But this one really hit home for us.

Speaker 3

I mean, it hit home for everybody on the boat. It was powerful. It was life changing.

And the good thing is you're gonna be like sitting in the auditorium with us on the boat as you listen to this.

So sit back, let God speak to you through Ron and Nan. This is a powerful, life changing message.

Speaker 1

Well, what started that whole mess was the two of us deciding that we were gonna get married 39 years ago. We came together, we just grabbed a bag, like going on by the grace of God.

Speaker 4

By the grace of.

Speaker 1

We're just gonna go on our honeymoon. So we got one bag and that's all that we needed, and we came together and I do.

Speaker 4

I do.

Speaker 1

You do.

Speaker 4

I do.

Speaker 1

That means we do.

Speaker 4

We do.

Speaker 1

And we were so stupid.

Speaker 4

Well, you were stupid. I wasn't stupid. You were 19. What were you thinking?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I was stupid.

Speaker 4

But little did we know that on that day when we said I do, we had a lot, a lot, a lot of baggage. And I don't know if we tucked it away in the closet or we put it in the trunk of your big LeSabre, but we brought into the marriage a lot of baggage.

Speaker 1

It fit into the LeSabre for sure. That was a giant car.

Speaker 4

It would have fit.

Speaker 1

Yeah. But unfortunately, all this stuff is actually fitting in your heart. You walk through life with it, but we didn't have any earthly ideas.

Speaker 4

We didn't have a clue.

Speaker 1

I'm wondering about you. You got baggage?

Speaker 4

I heard a. No. Sarcastically. Yes. Hey, I've got a definition. Would you like to hear it?

Speaker 1

A definition of baggage?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 1

Yes, please.

Speaker 4

Emotional baggage, if you will, is often used to describe those negative feelings and emotions that we carry in from past experiences.

It's a collection of hurts, anger, sadness, those negative emotions that we've experienced.

So some of you brought some in, but some you're handed.

Speaker 1

That's right. We get it on the fly.

Speaker 4

Yeah. I mean, we were going through marriage, going through life. Everything was wonderful. Three kids, and then we were handed a baggage.

I mean, you may have experienced that where you've gone through a divorce, someone left you, you've lost a job, you've gone through anything that's tragic in this world.

And here's the one that we were handed.

Speaker 1

It's grief.

Speaker 4

Grief, yeah.

Speaker 1

So for us, in 2009, our middle son, Connor, died when he was 12. He got a MRSA staph infection, and in 10 days, he was gone.

And unfortunately, that's the bag that just sort of crumpled up on top of all the other bags that we brought in with us. It's the bag that you don't know how to unpack. You just carry it for life this side of heaven, and we just have it, but it complicates the stuff that we already had.

So for me, I came in with this big pride deal. Family pride.

Speaker 4

Ooh, that's a big one right there. That's a big bag. Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1

So we sort of had this deal, family pride, around doing the right things for the right reason in the right way. I mean, there is a way to load the dishwasher if you didn't know.

Speaker 4

Please, please.

Speaker 1

I can tell people in here can relate to that. But we also had the right theology behind it to justify everything that we were doing and why you should believe certain things. If you're going to be right, then you're going to be right. So let's make sure you're right, Ron. And so that became a little control mechanism in our home. It was sort of on me to get it right, if you know what I mean. And so that was definitely there.

What was at stake was disapproval and a lost usness. So disapproval of my parents, you know, looking at me like I had disappointed them. And that just killed me, because I didn't want to feel that way ever. And then it sort of threatened the usness of that relationship, you know what I mean? That sense that you're good and safe in those relationships. I had very loving, Christian, amazing parents and family. I never thought I was unloved, but I did sort of feel like it was fragile to lose their approval.

Because of that, I took this control thing and I internalized it. I was controlling about myself. I excelled at everything. I tried to push hard and get it right so I could keep the deal—family pride. Because if I didn't, then I might just feel like I'm not good enough, like I'm inadequate. And little did I know that I was carrying all of this baggage right into my wedding day.

Speaker 4

I'm exhausted. I'm sorry, honey.

Speaker 1

I know it's a lot.

Speaker 4

It's a lot.

Speaker 1

How about you?

Speaker 4

Well, let me tell you about mine. And he did have an amazing Christian home. Polar opposite. I did not come from a Christian home. I came from toxic soup. My parents were hurt people. They had been hurt in their lives, and hurt people, hurt people. And they really didn't ever do their work.

I'm the youngest of three girls, and I can tell you on one hand how many times I heard the words, "I love you. I'm proud of you." There was not a lot of love in my home. There was lots of yelling, there was lots of cussing. There was lots of anger. There was lots of words being flung at one another. Violence. And a lot of anger. It was a very unloving environment for all of us. And that unloving environment made all of us girls very insecure. All three of us suffered with eating disorders. My oldest sister, Joanne, at the age of 45, lost her battle with anorexia. And I believe it was because of that toxic soup that we were swimming in.

My dad would go one way, my mom would go one way. My sisters would go one their ways. And there was no one safe in the home to even process anything. It was rupture after rupture after rupture and no repair. There are six attachment styles that a child needs from their parents, and we got none of them. Now, my dad tried to redeem that at the end of his life, and he tried to do one, but it was a very insecure environment.

Lots of shaming messages from that. Unloving, insecure. I mean, I'll do the G version, but what in the heck were you thinking when you did that? What in the heck were you doing to do that? And do you really have a brain? You will never amount to anything. And why did we have that third child in the first place? Lots of shame, which sent me into this abandonment.

And I tell you, y'all, I remember at the age of six thinking, "I really want to escape. I want to get on my bike and never return." I was always trying to escape in a book. I was always trying to escape with. I never felt like I was worthy of love, so I felt a sense of abandonment.

Speaker 1

So that's the baggage we came into marriage with. We thought we only had one little one, but it turns out we had a lot of really big ones.

You guys remember getting on the boat the other day? Can you imagine carrying all that onto the ship? And then you throw what life throws at you that you didn't expect? The stuff you brought.

And then there's the natural disaster or the grief or the loss or the divorce or the whatever that just adds on top of that. And it's sort of like we're carrying all of this into our usness and we just innocently came together.

And I do.

Speaker 4

I do.

Speaker 1

We do. So sweet and stupid. I was 20 years into our marriage before I even had a glimpse of the magnitude of what this stuff was, let alone be able to open up and unpack the different bags. What do we do with that and how does that impact us?

As a matter of fact, let's talk about ineffective ways of managing our baggage. Right, we're going to talk about that. The Book of James is going to help us have a heart posture that's going to help us deal with the baggage in a healthy way.

But what are the ineffective things that we do to one another? Let me tell you, the first one is looking at the other person's bag and trying to eliminate it. So this is specs. What are you doing?

Speaker 4

Nothing. Nothing.

Speaker 1

I'm over here talking about specs and logs and. What are you doing?

Speaker 4

Nothing. I just.

Speaker 1

Was that my bag?

Speaker 4

Yeah, it's your pride bag, and I've been waiting for you to take care of it, so I just thought I'd just move it out of the way. It's ginormous.

Speaker 1

Okay? You've said that twice.

Speaker 4

And it's caused me a lot of grief and pain, and I just thought I'd just move it on out of there.

Speaker 1

Excuse me.

Speaker 4

I really don't think you need it.

Speaker 1

And by the way, I think this is the pot calling the kettle black, thank you very much.

Speaker 4

What do you mean, the pot calling the kettle black?

Speaker 1

Right over there. You got some pride yourself.

Speaker 4

I do not.

Speaker 1

Right there. Go look. Staring you in the face.

Speaker 4

Well, it's not as big as yours.

Speaker 1

Let me get this straight. First, you're proud that you don't have any pride. Now you're proud that your pride is less than my pride?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 1

That is sick right there. That is sick right there. Manipulative and sick. So what's happening right now? What's happening is the strategy of eliminating the other person's bags. Looking at the speck in their eye and being so focused on the speck and making it our responsibility to get rid of those things in their life only erupts negative. More conflict, more disruption to our usness. It actually just ignites different things within us. We'll talk about what those are in just a minute.

But let me tell you about number two: the ineffective way of getting rid of baggage. And this one is, I think, even more insidious. You gotta stay with me just for a minute. So imagine that I've got these bags, which I do, but I make it her job to eliminate my bags. What she needs to do is love me well enough, or be sweet and kind enough, or whatever it is that I have in that little list on my mind, and that somehow... Hello. What are we doing?

Speaker 4

I. I don't like this bag abandonment.

Speaker 1

I know you don't.

Speaker 4

Let's not talk about it, okay? I just. I really struggled with this for a long time, and I. I'm sorry. Do you love me?

Speaker 1

I love you so much.

Speaker 4

How much? More than anything would. Well, I would like for you to take this for me and handle this.

Speaker 1

And be happy to. I've seen how hard it is.

Speaker 4

I. I just don't do it really well. But, hey, you have three degrees, right? Four.

Speaker 1

But only my pride is keeping track, so.

Speaker 4

So you should be well equipped to handle this bag for me.

Speaker 1

I'd be happy to.

Speaker 4

And you love me so much, right?

Speaker 1

We do.

Speaker 4

We do.

Speaker 1

I'll take it.

Speaker 4

Thank you.

Speaker 1

I got it. It's all good.

Speaker 4

Appreciate that so much.

Speaker 1

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 4

I said take the bag.

Speaker 1

I'm trying. Let go.

Speaker 4

Take the Bag.

Speaker 1

I'm trying.

Speaker 4

Work your magic. Take the bag.

Speaker 1

Well, obviously it's tethered to you, so I don't know what to do about that.

Speaker 4

Okay, if you said you loved me.

Speaker 1

I do, but I can't eliminate this.

Speaker 4

I think you're trying hard enough.

Speaker 1

Now I'm feeling inadequate. Hello? Why don't you fix my inadequacy? Why don't you just take that?

Speaker 4

No, no, no, no. Check your own. Okay, fine. Five, five, five, five, five. I'll deal with this myself. Thank you for nothing.

Speaker 1

Okay, so what's happening? The strategy. Try to eliminate. Excuse me. To eliminate our bags by getting the other.

Speaker 4

What's happening is we just gave you a glimpse into our 39 year marriage.

Speaker 1

This is real life.

Speaker 4

Sorry, that just came off.

Speaker 1

And here's what I know everybody in this room can relate to something. You just saw foreign.

Speaker 2

Dave Wilson and you're listening to family life today and we're actually listening to a talk that was given on the love like you mean it cruise by Ron and Nandil.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we were sitting right there in the audience like you're sitting now, listening. And it, as you can tell, man, they are getting into some stuff that nobody talks about and you're only halfway through.

Speaker 2

I think this next part is so good because they talk about how is inevitable, but God can be trusted with it.

Speaker 4

But he gives us more grace. That's why the scripture says in James 4. 6, God opposes the proud, but as grace for the humble.

Speaker 1

God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Here's the equation of how to deal with the bad equation. If you come before God in pride, he's going to oppose you. By the way, that little phrase is repeated multiple times throughout the Old and New Testaments. I've kind of given up keeping track, but I found over 30 examples of where that phrase is repeated almost exactly word for word. And in many other occasions, it's worded a little differently, but the meaning is carried forward.

Here's the bottom line. If you come to God and you go, "Man, I so don't really need you, Lord. I'm smart enough to figure out how to do life. I got my own rules, I got my own way. I'm going to do it, thank you very much. I don't need you. I got this." That's a posture of pride. And God's gonna say, "Oh, little man, I need to show you yourself," and I'm gonna oppose you. This is the story of the Bible. God opposed Satan and kicked him out of heaven. God opposed Adam and Eve and kicked them out. And God's been opposing prideful people ever since.

Story after story after story, we get to the New Testament. One of the prime examples is this guy named Saul, who is opposing the Christians. And in that pride, God opposes him and blinds him on the road to Damascus to get his attention, humbles his heart. And all of a sudden, he's now in a different posture before God, saying, "In humility, I come before you. Who are you? Teach me." And now God has got ahold of him, and what does he give him? Grace. Grace. Grace to the point where he writes most of the New Testament. This is the process of us following him and turning ourselves over to Him. But as long as we're blinded by our pride, we just get opposition.

Now, we think that principle works not only vertically, but it works horizontally in earthly relationships. If it works here, and we're made in His image, it's gonna work here. So God opposes the proud, and so does your spouse. When you take charge of how she's supposed to do life, how to deal with her bags, and how she's supposed to load the dishwasher, you're gonna invite her to oppose you. You're gonna have natural tension.

But if I, in humility, say, "I don't got this, God. I need you," and I'm coming before you, humbly owning who I've been and what I've done and how I've been, and I want to change that, and I put on a posture of humility before her, we think that invites grace from her. It invites a softening from her and makes her more apt to forgive, more apt to partner alongside. And maybe, just maybe, she might be encouraged indirectly to do her own humility work, to do her own examination of what she needs to do and how she needs to be different.

And now you have two people coming together who are owning their stuff and trying to bring a better self to this usness. We may have started stupid, but we're getting better at it.

Speaker 4

We are.

Speaker 1

I do.

Speaker 4

I do.

Speaker 1

We do.

Speaker 4

We do. I'm gonna tell you all a story that I didn't tell the other group. So you're special.

Tell a story on me. So long, long ago, we were living in Jonesboro. You just started ministry.

And Ron wanted me to speak with them, so I did, during that stupid phase. And we spoke. And then afterwards, he critiqued me.

Speaker 1

Control.

Speaker 4

And not knowing that I had a big bag of this, I said, it'll be a cold day in hell when I speak with you again.

Speaker 1

Is it cold outside?

Speaker 4

Is it cold outside?

Speaker 1

I don't think so. Here we are.

Speaker 4

Let me just tell you, 2020 was very good for me. It's when I hit bottom. It's when I humbled myself before the Lord and I surrendered after decades of this over my family of origin. Why that family? Over Ron and all of his wonderful ministry stuff. I didn't like him very much. Y'all were fans. But I was not a fan over the loss of my son. Until I get to heaven, I still don't understand that one. It is not good to bury a 12-year-old boy.

But God is good. And until I surrendered and I started trusting him and I humbled myself before him, I couldn't unpack any of this. But he is good and he is gentle and he is gracious and merciful. And he can help you unpack it. He can help you look at it. He can help you say, you know what, you are loved. You know what, you have security in me. You know what? You don't need to be Ron's holy Spirit anymore. I got that job.

And he says, no, you are my daughter. And he's never left me or forsaken me, not even on my darkest, darkest 16 years of losing my son. He is a good, good father that I had to surrender to.

Speaker 1

We unpack, we join the Holy Spirit and this is how this stuff gets redeemed.

Speaker 4

It does. It is work, thank God.

Speaker 1

It is hard. It is a journey. It is not overnight. God, in his kindness, will just sort of shave off little parts of you at a time as you can, take it as you can receive it.

Yes, I think this side of heaven we continue to unpack and try to get more and more like Jesus. But it starts with that humble heart.

Let's go back to James because he continues about what to do about the unmet desires.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Our firm foundation.

Speaker 1

Verse 7.

Speaker 4

Verse 7.

Submit yourselves then to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners. Purify your hearts, you double minded.

Grieve and mourn and wail over your sinfulness. Change your laughter to mourning, your joy to gloom.

Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up.

Speaker 1

Listen to the verbs, submit. Resist the devil. Draw near to God. Grieve all this sin and the stuff that goes with it and the reactivity that comes out of it. Grieve over that, recognize it for what it is and humble yourself.

Speaker 4

He's the one who lifts pain; it is inevitable. We live in a fallen world this side of heaven. We live in a broken, fallen world with disease and sin. We walk amongst broken people, me being one of the chief sinners. And God is gonna be faithful to you in your journey with your baggage, with anything that comes your way.

I want to share with you just a little sweet nugget that He gave me. Not long after Connor passed away and we had laid him to rest, I was spending some time in his bedroom one day, and I found his Bible. In his Bible, we had been doing devotionals earlier that year in the book of Proverbs. He had highlighted just a few verses in Proverbs 3:5-6. I feel like that was a little gift from my son, but it was definitely a gift from God because I say those verses every single day now: "Trust in the Lord, Nan, with all your heart, and don't lean on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge me, sweet girl, and I will direct your paths."

That family picture that we put up there is painful to show you because Connor's not in that picture the way I want him to be. Pain is inevitable, but you can trust God with your pain. I want my son up in that picture. Now, our family carries him the way we know how and the way that God has helped us to carry him. But I'd love for you to see him in that picture with all of us, present day. But he is in that picture. He's in our family. He will never not be in our family.

And I want to tell you something sweet: he's in that grandson's name. Connor's name is Connor Lee Deal, and Austin's name is Austin Lee Humphrey Deal. We have a mighty God who saves, who redeems, who is merciful, who is loving. He will never leave you. He will never forsake you. Trust Him with all your baggage. Trust Him with your blinders. Trust Him with everything that comes your way, and He will direct your paths. It might not be easy, but He is worthy of following and trusting.

Speaker 1

So, realignment.

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 1

Refreshing this usness.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Lord.

Speaker 1

Starts with me, with me. Humbly dealing with me. Everything in me wants to deal with her. Wants to get her to be something for me that I need her to do. So somehow I feel better. But that doesn't work. That's just cotton candy. It's here and it's gone.

What works is me submitting to God. In fact, listen to the verbs again. Submit, resist the devil. Draw near to God. Grieve over who and how you've been and humble yourself.

Speaker 3

I mean, such a powerful message from Ron and Anne Deal from the Love Like You Mean It cruise.

And we're David and Wilson, and I'm telling you, we would love to see you on the cruise with us next year.

Right now, you can get the best deal anybody's ever going to get to sign up for the cruise. It's going to be from February 14th through the 21st, in 2026.

Speaker 2

Wait too long because the ship is already 60% full. So you're going to want to be able to pick that room that you want and join us on the love like you mean it marriage cruise.

Speaker 3

Yes. So you can sign up at family life today.com or if you'd like, give us a call at 1-800-358-6329. That's 800F as in family L is in life and the word today.

Speaker 2

Family life today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.