FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Man with words. You can build people up or you can destroy them. Even in your own family, your job is to build them up.

If you're a keeper of the garden, you want people to bloom because you're there. They flourish because you're there. That's your mom, that's your dad, that's your brothers and sisters. That's your neighbors. That's other people at school.

That's your job. You do actually have a mission here.

Speaker 2

Welcome to family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us@familylifetoday.com this is Family Life Today. So a video was recently sent to us of the top ten least attractive men's hobbies. Okay, sorry. Nine.

Speaker 2

It says ten, but there's only nine. Yeah, I can tell you what number ten is.

Speaker 3

I wanted you to guess. Have you looked at all of them?

Speaker 2

No, I haven't.

Speaker 3

Okay. What do you think?

Speaker 2

I saw the title.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Lisa Trout. Let's ask Bran Hanson. He's in the room.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 2

He's the manhood guy. He's written a couple books. A manhood.

Speaker 3

That's right. We're gonna be talking about that today. Least attractive brand.

Speaker 1

Well, it's gonna be stuff I like. I know that.

Speaker 2

Is this by women or by men or both?

Speaker 3

I don't know. Let's see. I'm not sure. I'm guessing this is from women. Actually, I was looking at the list. I'm like, oh, I bet these are one of them.

Speaker 2

I would think would be watching football.

Speaker 3

No, that is not one.

Speaker 1

I feel like we're playing Family Feud here.

Speaker 3

Okay, what's your name?

Speaker 1

This could be video games number one.

Speaker 3

Video games number one. Number two, collecting figurines.

Speaker 1

Now that's not fair.

Speaker 2

What does that mean?

Speaker 1

Because if people are into like Lord of the Rings, you paint a little.

Speaker 3

I know. Our son did. Yeah, it was kind of cool. But he showed his girlfriend and I don't think she thought it was very cool.

Speaker 1

That's just short sightedness on her part of figurines.

Speaker 3

Okay, what about number three? Magic tricks?

Speaker 2

I think they're cool.

Speaker 1

I think they're cool too.

Speaker 2

I wish I could do more.

Speaker 3

If a guy can do them pretty well. I don't know. Online trolling.

Speaker 1

That's a hobby.

Speaker 2

That's pretty bad.

Speaker 1

I enjoy long walks on the beach. I enjoy online trolling.

Speaker 3

That would be very uninteresting.

Speaker 1

I collect figurines.

Speaker 3

Gambling? Yes. That's not building model Trains.

Speaker 1

What? What's next?

Speaker 2

Where did this come from?

Speaker 3

Oh, no. Taxidermy is number seven. Eight, comic books. And nine, bird watching.

Speaker 1

What?

Speaker 3

I kind of would like bird watching with you. I like bird watching myself.

Speaker 2

Ornithology. I know what it's called. So, Brant, we're back. And yesterday you said there's six decisions that will set you apart as a man.

Speaker 3

As we're talking about Bryant's newest book, the Young Men We God's Purpose for Every Guy and How We Can Live It Out. Great title. Great subtitle.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And as you said two days ago, I guess you know, there's overlap between the men we need and the young men we need. Yeah, but there's a nuance that's starting earlier.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's the same basic material, like trying to give guys a vision for what masculinity actually is and why it's awesome.

Speaker 3

God's idea of where, you know, you're giving a biblical viewpoint of manhood.

Speaker 1

As best I can. I think it's being a keeper of the garden. Yeah, I think that's it. Like, allowing people around you to flourish and thrive who might be vulnerable, protecting them, being a source of security, that sort of stuff.

You talk about that to guys, they get it. Like, oh, that's who I'm supposed to be. But there are things that will stop you from doing it. And so I try to address that with some of these decisions, especially for younger guys, too.

It's the same material as the men we need, but it's just. I scaled it down. I edited it down so that the chapters are really short because I think it's better for the guys that find it more readable. Younger guys?

Speaker 2

Yeah. Okay, so the first one. Forsake the fake. Relish the real.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So this is a huge thing, obviously. Like, there is a spiritual enemy, and he wants to fake you out. He wants to give you something that seems real, feels real, and in the end, it's just a punch in the stomach.

And pornography is an obvious example. It's like you get the dopamine hits, your brain gets fooled, but that's not, obviously, a real woman. Like, a real woman will challenge you and help you grow up, but now you're not going to grow up because of this, and you're left with nothing.

And so when I'm writing about that, by the way, I'm not doing a guilt trip for guys. There's enough guilt that we struggle with and shame. So I didn't feel like that was what we needed as much as being able to look at this and go, wait a second. See how we're being faked out all the time?

The same thing with video games. And again, video games, I think are. I'm not against them.

Speaker 3

They're fun.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they're fun, but you're essentially doing things that are fake. And so even if you do well at a game and six hours later you've been playing it doing really well, you get done. You feel on we. You feel meaninglessness, and it's because it's meaningless. You didn't actually accomplish anything in real life. Like we're made to accomplish things.

So I just try to flesh that out for guys to go, look, there's all sorts of stuff that feels like it's real to our brains. You get the dopamine hit. You get the good feelings. In fact, it feels better than real life because you don't have to go through the trials of real relationships with a fake woman. You don't have to go through the trials of actually learning training to become a Navy seal. You could just start playing Call of Duty or whatever.

It's like, you don't have to. You can skip all of the stuff and just start with the dopamine payoffs. That will ruin you. You don't want to wake up at age 70 not having lived. All your accomplishments were virtual. You don't want that. But that is how the enemy works.

Speaker 3

Well, guys talk to the women right now, and I talk to a lot of young married women, and they're saying, this is a deal. Like video games.

You know, I've got. This is what a mom might say. I have three kids that are seven and under. Baths need to be taken. The kitchen needs to be cleaned up. The house is a mess, and my husband is playing video games.

Or my husband is addicted to porn, and he's tried to stop. He's a good guy, and he's a good guy. He's playing video games, and all I've done is complain.

And I tell him, like, you need to stop. I don't know what to do, because nothing gets through to him.

Speaker 1

Well, obviously, I can't give you a patty now that everything's taken care of, but I can give you some ideas. A lot of times when guys are struggling with that stuff, it's a lack of a bigger vision for their lives. There are a couple of things I talk about regarding schedules for men. We need to consider that for teenage guys, if they have a lot of time on their hands, that can be a problem. Unfortunately, it makes things a lot more difficult.

I took a group to Mexico on a missions trip years ago, a bunch of high school guys that I was discipling. The other kids in the youth group were girls. Everybody was teenagers, right? These guys had always confided in me and others that this was a big struggle for them—specifically, the issues of lust and pornography. It occurred to me at the end of the week, after we had been working hard alongside these girls, that we had been having dinner together in the evenings, camping out in the middle of nowhere, and dealing with the heat. It was a lot of work, but we were having a great time and worshiping in the evenings.

At the end of the week, I asked the guys, "Hey, did you struggle with lust a lot this week?" They were quiet for a little bit, and then they just started laughing, saying, "We haven't had time." I thought that was really interesting. It showed me that when your circumstances change, even your calendar or schedule, it can make a big difference in those struggles.

So, I would tell guys that with women, it’s very difficult to control those feelings, and it’s tough not to want to, especially when women are being super immature or nagging. Obviously, it’s important to genuinely talk to God about it and ask Him to help, because God isn’t into usurping their decisions or forcing something. A practical prayer could be to ask God to surround him with other guys who will give him other things to do and encourage him to grow up.

Another thing I would do is to be very proactive. When he’s not engaging in those struggles and is doing something else that you respect, make it a point to express that you find that attractive. Whether he’s being a good dad or accepting responsibility, find him doing something right, because that will encourage more of that behavior. I remember an experiment they did in college with a professor, but I can’t recall exactly where it was.

Speaker 3

Oh, yeah, you remember this? Yes. I thought it was in Dallas Seminary, but I might be wrong. Go ahead.

Speaker 1

Well, as he's lecturing.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

As he walked towards the windows, everybody starts smiling. And as he'd walked over towards the door on the other side of the front, then everybody would act disinterested and apathetic and not care and frown.

Well, pretty soon it's like 10 minutes into the lecture where he's, like, pinned up against the windows unwittingly. It's not manipulation. It's just being honest.

Make sure you say, "Man, it's really attractive when you do that." Like, to give me a break from the kids, I just can't tell you. It's just manly, man.

When you talk to the neighbor that way and told him that that was a problem for us, and you were kind but direct, there's something really cool. Find that. Because it shapes his behavior more than maybe you realize.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And in some ways, it's like we men are still little boys, and when somebody sees what we're doing and says, good job, son. We do it again. We do it better. We keep doing it. It's like.

Speaker 3

I mean.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

I share in this newest book that will come out in May, that we've just done, how to speak life to your husband, when all you want to do is yell at him. I share that. I've nagged Dave for years about he needs to spend more time with the boys, pouring into them spiritually. Get that. You need to. And that didn't always fly very well.

And then I'd compare him to other dads that were doing that, and that really didn't fly very well. And so, Brant, I did exactly what you said. I felt like God was prompting me to see and say the things that he's doing well and right. Encourage that.

And so one night, he— I have shared this before, but he put the boys to bed, and I watched him, and he came out, and I said, man, I'm jealous of the power you carry.

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 3

Like, you just say something positive, or you just say things, and they're clinging to your words. They're not even hanging on to any of my stuff. But for you, you've got so much power. And that's all I said. And then the next night, I was.

Speaker 2

Running up to that bedroom, and I.

Speaker 3

Didn'T do it to be manipulative. I just noticed.

Speaker 1

But you know what? It's. People need a blessing at the deepest level. Man, woman, or not. Like, my wife needs to hear words of blessing from me, and I know that.

Speaker 2

And it brings life.

Speaker 1

I've gotten better at it, but it's like it does. And the human soul is made for blessing. And like Dallas Willard says, it dies without it.

Speaker 2

I would say, as well, before we get to the second one, when you forsake the fake. As a man, especially as a young man, I try to help.

We as men say, what are we escaping from? That we keep going to the fake. We sort of know porn's bad. You know, eating too much is bad. All the things that we do, there's a root. There's something you're avoiding, maybe as a man, or you're escaping from that.

And it takes a real man to step into the hard issues of your life and say, I gotta look this in the face and deal with it.

Speaker 1

I think that's true for young guys, too. I'll tell them there's hope here. Because as these things are squeezed out of your life, don't let shame keep you away from God. Do not. That's the real loss. Like, he understands that we're sinners. He wants to change us. So you keep talking to him. Do not slink away in shame. Which is what Adam did.

So Adam failed as a keeper of the garden. And then he slinks away in shame. And God shows up and says, "Where are you, Adam? What happened to us? We used to walk together, but now he's gone." So I'm trying to tell guys, too.

And I also want them to know this again, not to make this about just guilt and shame. After Adam blows it and we've all blown it, when he's leaving the Garden of Eden, God makes clothes for them. And I always thought those clothes were like Flintstones type stuff. I don't know, like. Right. It's gonna be like, just trying to get you covered here.

You know, the word there is Kehoneth in the Hebrew for their clothes, that means royal garments. The only other time that word pops up in Genesis is described Joseph's coat.

Speaker 3

What? I have never heard this.

Speaker 1

I had just learned it recently.

Speaker 2

And that's for two sinners.

Speaker 1

Okay? Right. And so it's used later on in the Old Testament for royal priestly garments. So they blow it. God doesn't kick them out and say, I'm done with you. He goes with them after dressing them up as a king and queen. I mean, I want you to know you don't slink away in shame.

So you're caught up in this. You're listening to this. Don't be. Oh, I've blown it again. I've blown it. Like, I'm trying to give you hope here. The other thing is, as God changes you, these things get squeezed out of your life. But things get really better.

They've done these studies of younger guys that get off of pornography or older guys and their firsthand testimonies after they've gotten rid of it for a few weeks. Even I'm more confident. I have more energy. I'm less negative. I'm not as acerbic. I can get things done. I can think more clearly. I'm more confident with girls.

There's all of these things that we're walking around with, this extra surliness that is lifted when that is crowded out of your life. So to me, that's just, hey, there's some good news here. Things can get better.

Speaker 3

I mean, I'm still stuck on that. Like, he makes us priestly garments after this huge fall that will affect every person. As a woman, I've carried so much shame in the past, but I watch young men who have struggled in this area. I've heard from them. That's a thing. They leave God because they feel like God's so disappointed.

It's the gospel. And grace is compelling. He draws us back. So this picture of him giving us priestly garments as he ushers us out to protect us from eating from the tree of life. It's beautiful. Grace and love.

Speaker 1

He still wants to be with you. Do not walk away in shame. So what will happen is you'll feel shame. You'll feel like you're disconnected from God. Who is God anyway? What is God? You. You're on the Internet. This is default atheism and sarcasm. No, no, no, no, no, no. He loves you. He's not giving up on you. You keep talking to him. You keep being loyal.

So this is one of the other decisions I talk about: take responsibility for your own spiritual life. This is not a guilt trip. This is an opportunity. When I say that, I'm saying that's what God is looking for—your loyalty. Yes, He knows we sin. He's got it. He's not shocked. He knows. He wants to move us past it. He has paid the price for it. But be loyal. Keep talking to him. He's looking for partners. God is looking for partners. He always has been.

And he wants to partner with you in your life. So you talk to him about what you're doing together in life. And that prayer takes on a different dimension. It's not as hard anymore. It's more like we have all these Zoom meetings with bosses or colleagues. Like, here's your meeting with your partner in life who can do anything for you, who loves you. He's more on your side than you are.

Speaker 3

And this is true for men or women?

Speaker 1

Absolutely, yes. Like, why would I miss that meeting?

Speaker 3

Exactly.

Speaker 1

I don't want to miss that meeting. So that loyalty is everything. We equate spirituality in this country with emotion because we're all about emotions in this culture.

But that's not what spirituality is in the Bible consistently. It's a believing loyalty. So you keep coming back, guys, and he will change you.

And when he changes you over time, he'll change your desires a certain way. A lot of that stuff gets left behind.

Speaker 2

I think it's when you say, take responsibility for your own spiritual life, which is decision six. Like you said, they're not in a certain order. But I think a lot of us guys. I've seen guys draft off their wife's spiritual walk.

Speaker 1

Okay. A lot of that, though, is because of this misunderstanding. Because you feel less than. Because you're not as emotional in worship services or you're not getting goosebumps. We set up the Christian experience a lot of times, basically experiences. We want to create an emotional experience, but that's not spirituality. It's not bad to have an emotional experience. Of course, it's wonderful. But if you're more analytical, even as a woman, you may not relate like that to God. And you shouldn't have to feel guilty about it. You should be able to go, yeah, that's cool, but I'm not feeling it. But that doesn't mean God's left me. It doesn't mean he doesn't exist because I'm not feeling it. You're still loyal.

Well, this is a huge burden lifter for a lot of men in particular. So that's why I wrote about this. But this is how you're going to grow. You continue to pay attention to him even while you're caught up in stuff. You keep talking to him. There's where your hope is going to come from. He's going to make you a different kind of person.

Speaker 3

That's good.

Speaker 2

All right, here's a couple others we talked quite a bit you have about protect the vulnerable.

Speaker 1

We've talked about this before. I remember reading a guy saying, I will defend my wife if there's an intruder. I'll take care of the intruder. I'm a good defender of my wife.

Speaker 2

Is that how they say it?

Speaker 1

They always talk like that. Anybody I don't like talks like that. No, but he was poking fun at himself. But he said, you know what I realized? I just pat myself on the back for that. Then I realized that doesn't happen very often. He said, most of the time the intruder is me. It's my words or my lack of words or my sarcasm or my tone of voice that's injuring and making my wife feel insecure.

Now, again, this is true. I'm saying this to young guys, too. It's not about marriage. It's about everything. Like, man with words. You can build people up or you can destroy. Even in your own family, your job is to build them up. If you're a keeper of the garden, you want people to bloom because you're there. They flourish because you're there. That's your mom, that's your dad, that's your brothers and sisters. That's your neighbors. That's other people at school. That's your job. You do actually have a mission here.

The tone of voice thing is what I've been learning about, because Carolyn's talked to me about that many times over the years, and I just. I don't know why it didn't dawn on me that it's a bigger deal than I wanted it to be. Because the male voice is made, like, to bark out the door. I remember doing that one time at neighbor kids that were setting off fireworks or whatever. Like, I was like, this ends now. And Carolyn was like, that was really attractive when you did that. See, I remember that.

Speaker 2

But when you said it to her, it doesn't always feel that way. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Okay, so. And women are very audible, auditory, and do not like even to pick up on vulnerability. Like a newborn crying. There are certain nuances that they pick up on, and then we lack that nuance, which can make us sound threatening when we don't mean to be.

So I'm just thinking. I'm just making my case here. I'm making a logical case about why I'm right. But she's saying something about my tone of voice, and I'm realizing that I want to make you secure, not insecure.

So it's not that my voice is bad, but I do need to adjust the tone. I'm a musician, and I'm on the radio, so you would think I would be thinking about tone of voice all the time. I'm not, but that's a great thing for guys to be aware of. Like, look, your role is for her to feel secure.

Speaker 3

Oh, Brandt. This was a big fight for us early on.

Speaker 1

Most.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I'm like. Dave would talk to me and I'd say, like, I'm not dumb. Like, you're talking to me like I'm the dumbest person in the world. What are you talking about?

And it was just the tone. It was kind of like, what are you? And that could be what you say, what are you doing?

And that's when I would say, there it is.

Speaker 2

She'd go, exhibit A. Because my tone would be, yeah, but.

Speaker 3

He didn't even hear it.

Speaker 1

This is really good to talk about. It's also true that we're like, well, what's the big deal? Even if my tone isn't perfect.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

But when we understand again, oh, wait, Masculinity is being a keeper of the garden. She's supposed to feel secure. I'm making her feel insecure. I'm not being masculine right now. I may think I am, but masculinity is about this other thing.

Once we have a concrete idea about what masculinity really is, that's the foundation. Oh, wait a second. I'm supposed to make her feel secure.

Speaker 2

I'll tell you this. Watching you and Carolyn, she feels secure.

Speaker 1

Good.

Speaker 2

You can see it.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Well, good. I mean, she has built me up so much and I could go on and on about that. Like, we got married young, as I mentioned, so like, it's hard to imagine, like any other existence, honestly.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But a lot of this stuff is hard won over time. Right? There are things I wish I could go back and tell my son at 10 years old that I should have said or could have done more.

So we all have regrets and stuff, but it's good to share what we have learned as a mercy. There's a lot of stuff that I have gotten from a lot of guys who have said, and this is very kind and I appreciate it, but, man, I wish I would have read this book a long time ago.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Let me just say this marriage is wonderful, but it can be really, really hard and difficult at times. And we know that. We've shared that many times here.

But we would love to help you. Go to familylife.com/marriagehelp; we've put some of our best tools there for you to get some help. We would love to help you.

Familylife.com/marriagehelp. Let me just end with.

Speaker 3

Saying there's something, Dave. I'm just gonna tell you, like, the way you love me, you lead me the way I can be in the car and feel like even when you're driving crazy, I can still feel like I really trust this man with not only my life, but our kids and our grandkids.

I talked to somebody. I didn't even tell you this. When you took our two grandkids to the movie by yourself. Five and three-year-olds all by yourself.

Speaker 2

That was fun.

Speaker 3

You took him to shake and shake. I heard one grandmother who was a friend of mine say, I would have never let my husband do that because he wouldn't even know what to do. The fact they're like, I'll take everybody out. Let's go.

Speaker 1

Saving Private Ryan, I don't think that was.

Speaker 2

I don't know why they kept flinching at the gunshots.

Speaker 3

You guys are so funny. But I'm just gonna say you've done that. And Brian, I'll say this because I've talked to Carolyn enough to know that you do that.

Speaker 1

Oh, good. Thank you.

Speaker 3

And it is attractive.

And so for you wives that are listening to this, thinking, my husband, I can't say that I would pray. Pray that God will give you eyes to see your man the way God created them to be.

And your sons. Oh, I know. It's like the temptation to see all the negative things your sons are doing and the video games they are playing and the kids they are hanging out with. But start speaking life into the man that you see that they can become, and they will rise up to that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I would say get the book. Yes, get both books.

I mean, you know this, Brandt, your sons especially are watching you as a dad more than they're listening to you. They are watching you be the keeper of the garden.

But man, this is truth. You use that term, keeper of the garden.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Start a Discussion with your 12 year old, 8 year old, 10, 15, that is going to bring a vision to them they've never had before that will set them on the course to become the man God's called them to be.

Speaker 1

They need it so bad. They need this vision. So it's good to give the example. It's also good to put some words behind it.

Speaker 3

Go.

Speaker 1

This is what I think my role is. And yours too. And my brother wrote the discussion questions, did a great job.

Speaker 3

Did he?

Speaker 1

They're in the back of the printed book.

So if you do have a youth group of guys or whatever, I honestly, normally I would feel sheepish about saying, please get this book and do it because it feels self-promotional.

Honestly, I feel like this is such a crisis.

Speaker 3

Me too.

Speaker 1

And if there's another book just like this, get that one; I don't care.

But it's like, please talk about this with young guys. Even in churches, they do not know what is specifically great about masculinity and what they're called to be.

And this would be so life-giving for everybody around us.

Speaker 2

Well, I tell you What, Brandt, we are going to help people do exactly that. He's right.

Speaker 3

We're in a crisis. I totally agree. And I get passionate because I had three sons and I've got four grandsons, and there's a crisis. I feel like, in our culture of what it is to be a man.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Brant, we are so thankful. You wrote the *Men We Need* and now the *Young Men We Need*. And so we want to help get this out into the hands of our people.

And I would just say, man, if you want this, we want to get it to you. Here's how this can work. Give us a donation to Family Life of any amount, and we will send you this book as our thank you to you for donating to Family Life.

And you can do that at familylifetoday.com. Just go there, make your donation. Or you can give us a call at 1-800-358-6329. What is that, Ann? That's F as in family.

Speaker 3

F as in family. L as in life. And today you did that like a cheerleader.

Speaker 2

You had your little L. F. Yeah. F. L today. Send us a donation. We will send you Brandt's book, the Young Men We Need.

Speaker 3

Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life Accrue Ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.