FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

It seems like "lonely" has become like a feminine word. Like, only women get to use that word. I'm lonely.

And I think that's why most guys don't have that as part of their vocabulary. But if you dig a little deeper underneath all the kind of symptoms of what guys are feeling, I'm like, dude, you're lonely.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us@familylifetoday.com this is Family Life Today.

Speaker 1

All right.

Speaker 3

You know, I'm excited because we have.

Speaker 2

A superhero in the room.

Speaker 3

We have a superhero. His name is Jared Lopes. He's laughing because he's like, I'm not a superhero. But you sort of.

Speaker 2

He kind of is.

Speaker 3

You're just a tired dad. Right.

Speaker 1

And I feel like I'm especially tired today. Yeah, you misread the title because I'm. I'm not the hero. Or you clearly haven't read the book or else you would have known that I'm reading.

Speaker 2

It says, did you know my daddy is a superhero?

Speaker 1

That's true. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well, if you can't tell, we're talking to Jared Lopes about. Well, tell our listeners a little bit about what dad Tired is and really even how you got it started.

Speaker 2

This is a great ministry, Jerry.

Speaker 1

Oh, thank you, guys. Well, it's always good to be back with you. I always feel like I'm at your kitchen table and just getting to hang out with friends.

Speaker 3

Our table's not quite this big.

Speaker 2

It's not quite this big.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Dad Tired started. I always say it's like it was super, super unintentional. I had no plans of starting Dad Tired. It was. It came out of the worst season of my marriage and probably my life. I had just come out of a failed church plant, was really dealing with identity stuff. Like, I felt like I was failing in every way.

Instead of pressing in towards my wife, I pulled away from her to the point where I thought we were actually going to get a divorce. If you've been married for longer than three months, you've had weird ideas in marriage. Everyone has had, you know, weird thoughts go through their brain.

But I remember sitting in my car and pulling out my phone and typing "divorce lawyers near me."

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 1

And that was, you know, when you take it out of your brain and you, like, put it in real life. It just. I was like, how long were you.

Speaker 3

Married at that point?

Speaker 1

Maybe three years.

Speaker 3

No kids.

Speaker 1

We had Two kids, a baby and a three year old.

Speaker 3

That'll do it.

Speaker 2

Why did you pull away when all that happened?

Speaker 1

Well, so during the failed church plan, as we were coming out of that, I came home, literally, I got like my last paycheck. It was very messy. Very. It was terrible. And I came home and Layla said, how did your meeting go? I said, I think I got fired. She laughed, and I said, no, I'm serious. I think I don't know what we're going to do.

Layla is very type A. What are the details? Let's figure this out. What are you going to do for work? What are the bills? And I'm just like, I felt like a scared boy, you know? I wanted her to comfort me. I didn't know how to say this in the moment, but I think what I wanted her to do is just hug me and say, we're okay. We're going to figure this out. You got this. But I didn't get that.

So she kind of went into panic mode and became detail-oriented. I went into panic mode as well and was just like, somebody tell me this is going to be okay, because I'm freaking out here.

Speaker 2

Did you feel like a failure, do you think?

Speaker 1

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. Yeah. And I had a three year old and a one year old, you know, and insurance.

Speaker 3

You got everything. You're thinking about groceries. I mean, do you walk out the door right then or for a break? No, I mean, just to get away.

Speaker 1

I don't remember the details after, like, after that, but I do know that that was the start of very quickly us pulling away from each other. Me specifically pulling away. A church had immediately offered like, hey, come, come back and work with us. And I was like, I don't want to work for churches anymore. I'm tired of doing the church thing. So I'll start businesses. I'll go do my own thing.

And that really just led into a dark. I isolated myself deep. So anyway, I'm in the car and I'm googling divorce lawyers near me. My son was 3, which was the age I was when my dad left.

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

So that was really messing with me too.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And I go home and Layla's. She's so much smarter than me. So when we get in a fight, it's so annoying because she tried. I always say, she's playing chess, I'm playing checkers. I'm not even. I'm playing tic tac toe, and she's playing chess, you know.

So anyway, and that's that moment, I remember thinking to myself, I was just angry and bitter. And I thought, I'm just going to be mean to her. I'll just say mean things. That's how I'll win this argument. Instead of, you know, trying to be strategic.

Speaker 2

You're consciously thinking this?

Speaker 1

Consciously, yeah. I was probably 23.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So my brain wasn't fully developed. So give me that. Get in the room. She says something. I'm like, okay, this is going to be another fight. You know, again, if you've been married longer than three months, you know when fights are coming. So she says something to me. I'm like, all right. So I just start saying mean things. You know, we're going to divorce. I'm leaving, I'm out of here. All this kind of stuff. And she's getting tears in her eyes.

I was in such a dark, sinful season of life that I thought. I literally thought to myself, I'm winning. I'm winning this argument. Like, I was happy to see her, what I thought was losing the argument. And she looked at me and she said, "Jared, I've been waking up every morning. I've been going to the living room, and I've been begging God to capture your heart again. I'm just begging that God would bring you back to the man that I know you are."

I was ready to fight. I was ready to do whatever, but I was not ready for that. I was not prepared for my wife to tell me she's been praying for me every night. And so I always think about Romans, the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. You know, it was the kindness of God that softened, broke all those walls down of anger and bitterness. And that was really the start of God drawing my heart back to His and our marriage becoming restored.

But I happened to write a blog very shortly after this, basically just telling the story. I felt like I was failing as a husband and dad. My wife got up and was praying for me. I didn't know that. And we're still in the thick of it. Like, our marriage didn't heal overnight. Now we're starting to restore. But that blog went viral. This was probably 10 years ago.

The blog went viral. All these mommy blogs picked it up and started sharing it on Facebook. I wasn't a blogger. Like, nobody knew. My mom maybe read something I wrote on Facebook, but that kind of catapulted into guys reaching out and saying, "Hey, man, I feel the same way. I feel like I'm failing as a husband and dad, but I don't want to give up." And there were, back then especially, very few resources for men and for dads.

Literally, guys were reaching out on Facebook, and I just tried to channel them into a Facebook group. Facebook said, "What do you want to name the group?" And tongue in cheek, I said, "Dad tired." Like, just being funny.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And that was the start of how the ministry started, which was like, you know, I always say God tricked me back into ministry. I had no plans to be doing a ministry again, especially a ministry for men.

And that was 10 years ago. Now we have, you know, hundreds of thousands of guys and yeah, we're part of it.

Speaker 3

So it's amazing.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Are you liking it?

Speaker 1

Dad tired? I love it. I think God put me in my sweet spot. I love ministry, but I'm not built for the church. Too many meetings. I don't like meetings. Just meet and meet and meet and meet. I'm like, come on, let's go do something.

You know, so dad tired really allows me. I think most people get into ministry because they just love to see the life change. That's why you initially get in, and then you kind of get caught up in all the stuff that it takes to run a church.

And so I get to just do the life change stuff. I just get to hear real life stories of guys overcoming addiction, marriages restored.

Speaker 2

So you've seen some real transformations. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1

Weekly. Really weekly. And a big part of it is the community that we have within this group. Guys meeting other guys, confessing sin, sharing lives, sharing their struggles, and pushing each other to be those men that God's called them to be.

Speaker 3

And they do a lot of that through their group on online.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So we have a free online group, but we also encourage guys to find other dads hired guys locally.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And even those guys are now getting their wives involved. I don't want to waste your time, but the stories of guys who randomly found the ministry, jumped in with a bunch of strangers, ended up having life change, and said, we need to get our wives together.

Then their wives start getting together, kids get together, then there's life change with them. I mean, just.

Speaker 3

That's awesome.

Speaker 1

Incredible stuff.

Speaker 2

I know we're going to talk about your kids book, but let me ask you guys.

Speaker 3

No, ask Jared. Don't ask me.

Speaker 2

No, I'm going to ask both of you because, Dave, this is a passion for you too. Do guys feel alone in terms of being a dad? And a husband.

Speaker 1

Yes. Yeah. I've heard one guy in my life say literally one time that he felt lonely.

But I've met hundreds of men who are lonely and don't know how to express it. They would never associate loneliness with all the things that they're feeling.

Speaker 2

Interesting.

Speaker 1

I think lonely. I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on this. But it seems like "lonely" has become like a feminine word. Like only women get to use that word.

I'm lonely. And I think that's why most guys don't have that as part of their vocabulary. But if you dig a little deeper underneath all the kind of symptoms of what guys are feeling, I'm like, dude, you're lonely.

Speaker 2

What do you think their word would be? I mean, I frustrated.

Speaker 3

My first thought is alone. Yeah, we feel alone. Only does feel like I don't know, but I feel alone. I've done a talk many times with men where I say men have lats. You know, we talk about getting in the gym and building our lats. We're lonely, angry, tired, spiritually depleted or spiritually isolated. But when I say that from a stage, you can see the room going, "Yeah, every one of those."

There's this sense I feel sort of by myself, and some of it's even separated from my wife because she wants me to be this guy, and I'm not really measuring up. So I'm sort of alone. I don't have a lot of guys I talk to about it, so I keep it to myself, and that makes me feel alone. I'm sort of angry about it. Sometimes it comes out in real anger, but most of the time it's just sort of underneath the surface.

I'm dead tired. I mean, "dead tired" is perfect because you feel exhausted trying to, you know, work and provide and take care of things. And then you're supposed to be the husband and dad, and you're just... And then spiritually, you sort of... Because of all that, you sort of pull yourself away.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And you're not filled and you're not energized. Again, I don't know.

Speaker 2

An interesting question for a wife to ask a husband not are you lonely? But do you feel alone? Sometimes.

Speaker 1

That's a good way of saying it.

Speaker 3

And a lot of it's our fault. We need to go get men in our lives and we sort of are afraid.

Speaker 1

It's so hard. Most guys would say they don't feel like they have a real friend that they could share honestly with.

Speaker 3

Yeah, well.

Speaker 2

And as I Followed some of your stuff, Jared. The thing I'm struck by is it seems like most dads and husbands want to be good. They want to be a good husband and a good dad. Do you think that's true?

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

I think that the intentionality is super high. The skills to have real friendship is low.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Like, you could get five guys in a room. All of most especially in the Christian community. Most of these guys are like, I want to be it. I want to be the man God's called me to be.

Shifting the conversation to that, nobody in the room really knows how to do that.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But if somebody does, it just opens it up. Yeah. We had a retreat. One guy came and joined our free online community. He shared vulnerably, saying, "I'm struggling with addiction, specifically to pornography."

One other guy responded, "Me too. Let's meet together on Zoom every Saturday morning to encourage each other." Other guys in the community got wind of it, and I think there were like 13 guys that every Saturday morning on Zoom, from around the country, were meeting virtually, sharing, and confessing sin.

They all met each other for the first time at our Dad Tired retreat. They gathered at 7 AM on Saturday and just said, "Hey, we're brothers. We've been meeting every week." There was a sense of camaraderie.

Three guys walked by and asked, "What are you guys doing?" They told him, "We've been meeting every week." The three guys said, "Can we join?" Those three jumped in, confessed, and shared. I told that story the next day at the retreat, and 20 more guys showed up the following morning. I mean, just come on!

But that's what I mean: one guy stepped up, and it all started because one guy was vulnerable. Now you have 20 plus guys, or however many, meeting every week. It just took one guy to shift the conversation.

Speaker 3

Now go back to, you know, your wife's praying that you'll be the man that you were. How did you become that guy again? How'd you get your fire back with Jesus?

Speaker 1

Well, I did the thing that I don't think any guy wants to do, and that's sign up to go to counseling. I told you, I met one guy who said he was lonely. I don't know if I met any guy who said, "I want to go to counseling." It just feels like I already know I'm not doing great as a man. So why do I need to pay somebody to tell me I'm not doing great as a man? That feels like a waste of money. But I swallowed my pride and went to counseling, and that helped.

You know, the first thing counselors ask within the first couple of sessions is, "Tell me about your childhood or your dad." Come on. I don't want to deal with this. My dad bailed, and that had a lot to do with my own wounds. You know, I think even in that moment, just saying I wanted my wife to hug me, if you could put language to that, it was like there was an open wound that felt poked. I was left wondering, "Oh, I'm not good. Am I good enough? Do I have what it takes to get us out of this mess?" And I was really scared. Those were internal, subconscious questions I was asking myself.

Counseling helps you figure out where those wounds pop up and what pokes them. So that was a big one. The other one was I really isolated myself. I pulled away from every Christian friendship that I had currently in my life.

Speaker 3

You were on a.

Speaker 1

On a church staff before, right? Before that?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So you had people in your life.

Speaker 1

Lots of people who would have loved to step into friends, But I just. When you're in darkness, you don't want to be around light.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And I just. I knew if I didn't want to be around anyone, but I especially didn't want to be around light because there was a lot of darkness in me.

Speaker 2

Hey, I think what we're talking about is great.

And as you're listening, if there's something on today's episode that you're just clicking with, we want you to know that you're not alone.

Because every single marriage has its fair share of highs, but also lows.

Speaker 3

And if you're like us, you're wondering, where do we get help? Where can we go to get help? Well, first of all, you're getting help right now, and we're thankful that you're listening.

But we also want to share one of our favorite resources. It's a free guide that's filled with helpful marriage wisdom from real life couples who've been where you are.

And you can grab your free copy today at familylife.com/marriagehelp. That's familylife.com/marriagehelp. It's so sweet how.

Speaker 2

God puts us together as a team in marriage. Because you were hurting. I'm sure that Laila had hurt you. You had hurt Laila.

But just her words of "I've just been praying every morning for you." Isn't that crazy how that just broke down all those walls?

And the power we have as wives, but also the power we have as men, you know, both together when we're working together hand in hand. There's power when we trust God with that.

Speaker 1

Laila would say, like, I didn't. I had used all my resources as far as I had tried everything.

Speaker 2

She didn't know what else to do, what else to.

Speaker 1

She was just so desperate. She's like, I can't. I'm being reasonable. Layla has an annoying ability to not be emotional, not fight with her emotions. She can set her emotions aside and just say, let's approach this logically. And that makes me even more mad. It makes me more emotional. I'm the emotional one in the relationship. So it made me more angry.

And she said, I've approached him reasonably. I've done everything. I've talked to him. He knows all the Christian, what am I going to do? Tell him a Bible verse, you know? So she's just like, I've done it. All I can do is plead with God. You're the only one that can change his heart.

Speaker 2

It's so funny too, because when we tell people, pray for them, pray for your spouse. You know, it's like, okay, but what else? But you're saying that prayer. And we would say that too. God hears.

Speaker 1

Well, otherwise, what do you, as a spouse, what you're really hoping is, hopefully I can talk you into behavior change. That's all it is, right?

Speaker 2

I am really good at trying to talk Dave into it.

Speaker 1

How's it working the spot? What I needed was not behavior change. I didn't need her to tell me, here are the five things I need you to do to behave better.

Speaker 2

You already knew what things would be.

Speaker 1

I needed heart change. And she got to the point where she said, "I can't change his heart. How am I going to change his heart? There's only one heart changer. That's the Holy Spirit."

And I would say that to anyone. Listen, if you're struggling in marriage with a spouse that you know has wandered or is far from God, you need heart change, not behavior change. And there's only one heart changer.

Speaker 2

That's good.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So we open this broadcast today. We're going to talk about your children's book. Well, Leah, tell us about that because, you know, I did not know you're going to do that. And now it's out. And what was the vision behind that?

Speaker 1

Well, I have four kids, but I heard my five-year-old, I think she was like three at the time, and her neighbor friends were arguing about whose daddy was best. She said something to the effect of, "My Daddy knows everything," or "My daddy can do anything." I was like, that is so cute. You know, I love that. I love that she thinks that.

But I also laughed to myself, knowing that's so not true. I don't know how to do most things. I don't know everything. And so I just thought, man, I love that I'm her hero, but she needs a better hero than me.

That was my thought process. I quickly tied those thoughts together and decided that I just want to write a book for her specifically and for my kids. It's like, you need someone better than daddy. Daddy will eventually fail you.

Speaker 2

So I love that beginning. Did you know my daddy is a superhero? He's big and he's strong. My daddy creates forts out of blankets or even in a tree. So you see that the child is saying, my daddy is. But you wanted it to switch.

Speaker 1

Well, what's funny? This was so intentional about that children's book.

So if you can see the pictures of it. Yeah. So my daddy's big and strong. He can build forts.

If you look at everything that the child is saying about her daddy, I am doing, or the dad is doing all those things.

Speaker 3

It does look like you.

Speaker 2

It does look like you.

Speaker 1

But it's always. If you look closely, it's kind of a mess. Like, his shoe's untied. The fort isn't straight. Like, things aren't level.

If you look at. Like, my daddy can fix my owies. My shoes untied there. Or he can. He fixes my bike in the garage. I mean, there's a saw there. You know, it's like, stuff. Tools you wouldn't even use.

And I'm sweating. And the illustration that I was trying to get at is, yes, I can do these things, but not perfectly. There's only one perfect father.

Speaker 2

I didn't see all of that before.

Speaker 1

I know I should have made him more. It's those little subtleties, you know, it's like to a child, from a child's eyes, my daddy's perfect, but from our eyes, we know I'm not perfect.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I like the grimace on your face as you're trying to fix the bike.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And that's the kind of every debt, like, sure, I'll build you a fort, but the thing's gonna...

I literally built my kids a fort recently. And it's a... If they think it's amazing.

But if you look, if anyone who knows what they're doing would look at that, like, this is not up to code for sure.

Speaker 3

I built a fort into a tree.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3

And I went and got, you know, the stair treads.

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3

And I put them on. It's all great. And then put a little rail. It's like a deck. And the first time my kids went up, they go, dad, why is. Why is the stairs so steep? I'm like, what are you talking about? I did it backwards.

Speaker 2

It was backwards.

Speaker 3

Had to rip it off and flip it over. It's like you had to fall down the stairs.

Speaker 1

That's it. Because to their eyes, you know, it's like, my dad's out there building the fort. And you're like, I'm putting things. I know what I'm doing. You don't know what I'm doing.

So that's really the goal of the book. The first half of the book is the hero is the dad in the child's eyes. But the dad says, but did you know even daddies have heroes? And the child says, who's your hero?

Now we're flipping everything that the child thought was amazing about the dad. The dad says, this is even more amazing about God. I provide for you, but we have a better provider. You know, I build you things. God built the whole universe.

And just goes on to make these parallels between a human father and God the father.

Speaker 2

That's good. So you go to the. Through the exact same thing. My hero is big and strong.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

My hero created the whole world from nothing. That's. It's really sweet.

Speaker 3

Yeah. I mean, and thinking about dads laying in beds at night with their kids, reading this probably over and over.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's been cool, because I think I've heard a lot of feedback that kids are really enjoying the book.

But I really wrote it for the dad. Honestly. I wrote it for the dad. The dad to say, hey, man, you're carrying a lot on your shoulders, but it's okay to point your kids to the real hero of the family.

Speaker 2

I love the picture of God holding your hand. The man's hand saying, my hero picks me up and carries me when I fall down.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there's one. There's another little subtle thing in there. I think the dad's paying the bills.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And we're looking at it right now.

Speaker 1

There's a sparrow there. Like, he even takes care of. You know, it's all these little. Just like, we recognize who the real provider is here. You know, Daddy's gonna.

Speaker 2

You come up with all that cheer.

Speaker 1

Well, I did.

Speaker 3

Look at that.

Speaker 2

You're like a creative, too.

Speaker 3

And I missed the sparrow sitting right there on the windowsill.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And now that's all you can see.

Speaker 1

I was trying to add all these little subtleties to just really point out that, like, that there's only one perfect one here. And tie into scripture. It's fun. I'd never written a children's book before, but I had a lot of fun doing this.

Speaker 3

You think there's more in your future?

Speaker 1

I'd love to. Yeah. I need more people to buy the book, so my publishers will say we could do more.

Speaker 2

Did you guys hear that? We need more people to buy the book.

I think the thing I love about that is that hopefully, I mean, the goal is that our kids would remember that your parents are always going to fail you. Your siblings, your friends, your spouse.

But God will always be there, and he won't fail you if you let him.

Speaker 3

Even your own dad.

Speaker 1

Yeah. That was honestly the biggest point that I'm trying to make in that book is everyone that lives under this roof needs Jesus. Even Daddy. Especially Daddy. But even Daddy for our kids.

Speaker 3

Is that something you do with your kids? Lay in bed at night, read books? I mean, I know you got older ones now.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I'm going to be real honest here. Bedtime is, like, the least spiritual time in my household. Before I had kids, I thought it was going to be different. I had all these grandiose ideas of what bedtime would look like.

And I think I lose my salvation probably three to five nights a week in my house. I texted my wife last night because I got in here and asked, "How's it going?" She's like, "Just your typical bedtime chaos, you know, mayhem over here."

Why do our kids just lose their minds?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And, you know, you have these ex expectations, especially for us, having three boys, five and under. It was wild. It's wild.

Speaker 3

We've got little videos of it, and you're just like, how did we survive?

Speaker 2

I know. And you want to see? It starts out really fun.

Oh, hey, you know, Dave's flying them across the room like they're Superman. And then they can't settle down.

And then it always gets to the point where now I'm mad at the kids, and now it ends.

Then you go to bed, like, why did I get all mad about that?

Speaker 1

Okay, I'm gonna say something. They're probably gonna edit out of this show, so forgive me ahead of time, but for a man, you only have, like, two things on your mind at night. And so what are those two things? You can take that as a listener however you want to take that prayer. Prayer, you know.

Yeah. And so then you know your kid, you're doing everything you can to put those little kids to bed so that you can make might get a few minutes alone with your wife. And of course the kids are just crazy. Crazy won't come into our room 1500 times. Do not come back into this room. They'll come back in.

So to answer your question, yes, there are nights where sometimes I will read my kids. The most spiritual conversations I've ever had with my kids are very, very rarely at bedtime. It's usually organic conversations throughout the day. I'm trying to point their eyes back to Jesus.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think that's just some good advice. We're all different as parents. So don't keep all the guilt on yourself if nighttime isn't your time.

But it is good to figure out when that time is because it's easy just for a day to go by for all of us where nothing happens.

And nights were my time. Man, I loved the nights with our kids. Dave didn't because he was probably thinking about something else, but I loved those times.

Speaker 3

That was the thing about watching sports. That's it.

Speaker 2

As they got older, we had some really deep conversations where we just lay in bed.

And the good thing about little kids too for me is that they didn't want to go to sleep. So when they weren't super crazy, they're a little older, they would have some deeper conversations.

Speaker 1

I do have. So I have two sets in my four kids. I have a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old, and a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old.

And I will say that with the 5-year-old and 3-year-old, I have learned, because there was a 5-year gap in between those two, to really cherish these moments. I know that these are my last babies, and I wish I would have cherished that time more with my older ones. But I do get teary-eyed from time to time, thinking this is the last, you know, these are the last moments of their early childhood.

In one week, I threw out diapers and took her crib down for my baby, and I didn't realize that’s what was happening. She got potty trained, and then she wanted to share a room with her older sister. So I took the crib down, and my wife came into the room while I was disassembling the crib. She just started bawling, saying, "My baby, you know what's happened? Just days, my baby's gone."

So I am learning to appreciate those moments. I already miss it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that'll come back around in grandkids.

Speaker 1

I am looking forward to that. Honestly, that feels like the prize. You know, we'll talk more about, like, things that dads, good dads do. And that's one of the prizes for me.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So what we are excited to offer our listeners is, you know, we're a listener-supported ministry.

As a listener makes a donation, as you make a donation of any amount, we are going to send you Jared's children's book, *My Daddy's Hero*. It's a great book. You've heard about it. You're going to want it.

You're probably going to get a lot more, but we'll send you one.

Speaker 2

You're going to notice the secrets and the shoe untied the sparrow.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So go to familylifetoday.com. you can get it there. Or call us at 1-800-358-6329. That's 800F as in family. L as in life and the word Today.

Speaker 2

Family Life today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.