FamilyLife Today®

Dave Wilson: Let me ask you something.

Ann Wilson: I'm a little scared. I don't know what you're going to ask.

Dave Wilson: Do you feel like you've ever sabotaged our marriage?

Ann Wilson: My first thought is I've sabotaged it countless times every year.

Dave Wilson: Really?

Ann Wilson: In things I've said or done. 42, now 43 years. Yeah, I think I've sabotaged it in many ways. But I think you've sabotaged it more than I have.

Dave Wilson: Probably.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

I honestly think if I had done better in year one, and year five, and ten, we could be... But here's the thing, I also when I say that out loud feel like the grace of God has been so good. Here we are sitting and I look at you and I love you more than I ever have.

Ann Wilson: Me too. And the good news is we've learned the hard way in so many different ways that we can maybe help other people not sabotage their marriage the way we have.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, so today we're going to talk about five ways to stop sabotaging your marriage. And we've got the guy to do it. Ted Lowe is back in the studio with us.

Ann Wilson: We're so excited, Ted, you're here!

Ted Lowe: Guys, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. And you're over there thinking, what in the world are we really going to talk about? No, I kind of love it watching you guys talk to each other like this. It's super refreshing. It's not what I experience on a regular basis. So well done.

Dave Wilson: How many years you been doing marriage ministry?

Ted Lowe: Since 2001.

Dave Wilson: So you are the guy to tell us how to stop sabotaging our marriage.

Ann Wilson: And we've interviewed you before on your book called Us in Mind. So maybe you've heard some of this, but I think these are going to be really good.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, one of the things you mentioned in Us in Mind, how changing your thoughts can change your marriage, is five intentional thoughts. So I'm guessing you would say, and I agree, that these will, if you do these, you'll stop doing these because the first one, remember who I am. I think we often do the opposite. We don't know who we are and that destroys a marriage. How does that destroy a marriage?

Ted Lowe: Our thoughts are not our actions or our attitudes, but they lead to both. And what I've found after doing this for a really long time and didn't even really do the math on it until a couple years ago is most of us aren't thinking about what we're thinking about. We just trust our thoughts as if they're going to always lead us in the right direction and as if they're always true and as if they're always helpful and as if they're always kind. So the book revolves around that. It revolves around, okay, how do we become more intentional with our thoughts? How do we boss our thoughts instead of our thoughts bossing us?

The first one was to remember who I am. I think one of the things that's been the most powerful for me personally and ultimately for my marriage is remembering whose I am. I think we can complicate Jesus and God in so many ways, but just to go back constantly that we are His child, that we are His.

I feel like there's been a few times I feel like God has whispered things to me, not audibly, but just on my heart. He says, "You'll become a man in your world as you become a child in Mine." Kids are always looking for approval, looking for worth, looking for value. But I feel like when I remember who I am, I'm already a man here, but just when you're His child then you lean back and you trust Him to be Him and you to be you.

And He's way bigger than us and that's really, really good news. And He adores us. And we listen to critical thoughts more than Him and I think it breaks His heart. The thought I've had before too, it'd be like our kids coming home and telling us what a bully had said to them all day and then looking at us and going, "Hey, all the things you've told me my whole life, I believe the bully more than you." That would break our hearts.

So I know it's got to break the heart of God when He's like, "Oh, why don't they listen to how much I love them?" So just the simplicity of that is somebody going, "Oh, I am so loved I can breathe."

Ann Wilson: There was a girl that I worked with. She came to my house. She had tried to commit suicide three times. And it was after her freshman year of college where she had an injury and she couldn't play soccer anymore. And so she couldn't perform at the level that she once performed. And so she sat down on my couch and I asked her, "Who are you?" And she said, "I'm a soccer player."

I said, "That's what you do, but who are you?" And she said, "I have no idea. If I can't do that anymore, I don't know who I am." And so I shared the gospel because that's what gives us our worth, of what Jesus did for us. She ended up a few weeks later, she gave her life to Jesus. And here's what we think when we do that, like now I'm free, I can live in this. But for years she had been believing the Fred in her head.

And so it takes practice. What I saw was that I went to this conference with her and she's amazing. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's funny, she adds so much to every group she's with. But as we're in this group, all of a sudden she's with us in physical form, but her mind is gone. And I remember pulling her aside and I said, "Where are you?" She said, "I don't belong here. I'm not good enough to be with these people. They don't understand who I am and what I've done."

And that's what you're saying. I felt like and I said, I remember lifting her head and I said, "Jesus knows who you are. He knows that you're here. He loves you. This is who you are. You're a daughter of the King. The Holy Spirit lives, the God who created the universe lives in you and we need the fullness of who you are. Like I need the fullness of who you are." And I love that's what you're saying, Ted. Like if we don't know that, we become lost in ourselves.

Dave Wilson: I didn't know this show had music. It just comes in out of nowhere.

Ann Wilson: It's kind of amazing, isn't it?

Ted Lowe: I kind of love it. Are you guys baking in puppy snacks? I don't think I could be any happier than I am in this moment.

Dave Wilson: Everything's better with music behind it, right? No, I mean, this is a chorus we've all probably heard that came out years ago. At church I play bass. I didn't usually sing, but when the singer would sing this lyric, I thought, I would tear up because it's our identity. It's what you're saying. You know what it is.

(Sings) I'm no longer a slave to fear. I am a child of God.

I mean, it's a simple phrase and yet, I don't know if you remember the bridge. (Sings) I am surrounded by the arms of the Father. I am surrounded by songs of deliverance.

I mean, you could go on. The reason I would tear up is something in my soul was saying that's who I am. That's who we are. And that when you bring into a marriage, you're right, that's not going to sabotage a marriage. That's going to build it.

Ted Lowe: Oh, well, that song is based off the verse that chapter is based off of. The Spirit I gave you is not that of a slave that lives in fear. How great is that? The Spirit, capitalized, the Holy Spirit. It's brought about your adoption into sonship. And so we stay, you're safe, you're adopted. I'm doing all the dad stuff.

I remember I'd say to our kids when they were little, "That's a big people problem. You don't have to worry about that. You go be a kid. That's a big people problem. I got this," especially our daughter, she was anxious. "No, no, Ted, this is a God problem. This isn't for you. You just feel loved and live loved." That's good stuff.

Ann Wilson: That's a good one because when we remember who we are, we bring the best of ourselves to the table with our kids and our marriage.

Dave Wilson: And number two, if you want to sabotage your marriage or your family, see the worst. You say see the best.

Ted Lowe: It's something that happy couples do. And I don't know if they do it because they learned it, I don't know if it's because their brains are naturally wired that way, but they see the best in their spouse. But I do believe that we can all learn it and start to see it. Philippians 4:8 gives us a really great filter of thinking. Whatever's true, whatever's noble, whatever's pure, whatever's right, whatever's lovely. If anything is praiseworthy, anything. Some people we got to start there. Is there anything? Because people will say to me, "There's nothing."

Ann Wilson: Oh yeah, that's what I hear too.

Ted Lowe: Especially when they're fired up about it. No, that does not work. That works for everybody on the planet but me. And I get it, but again, verse starts with true and you can do some really hard things with what's true and then you know what you're dealing with because you're starting with truth and not denial. What is true about our situation? What's true about them?

But just see the best. What I'll say to couples, "Let what you love about your spouse block the view of what you don't." Start there. What do you... and if you want to come back to those things, great, but what do you love about them? Because you loved something about them at some point. And what's so you watch a couple they're really frustrated sitting across from me and when I can't get anywhere with them I'll say, "So wow, you guys, boy, this is tough. How'd you get together?"

Their body language will change, the way they start focusing. And they did see the best in each other. And the way they treated each other was so great. Life is hard, it gets going fast and we stop seeing the things. We start going and we're just thinking our spouse becomes a hindrance to getting the way of getting the things we got to get done, done.

Ann Wilson: And we start comparing our life compared to their life, thinking that we are doing so much more.

Ted Lowe: 100 percent. The number one time couples are fighting is when they reconnect at the end of the day. And I think part of that is they come in and they compare. "Oh my day, my day." "Oh, you think your day was tough?"

I worked for an organization for a while I would actually go in and speak a couple times a year, organization that worked with couples who had children that were on autism spectrum. And they would come in and I would watch and I would see like some of them, all the things they were dealing with actually drew them together and others it had totally pushed them apart. I think the divorce rate is pretty staggering.

And I'd done this retreat about 10 times and I'm driving home and I'm like, what is the difference between these two couples? What is the difference when it's pulling them together where they're all sitting on this sectional couch and then they couldn't even get close enough to each other and the other one's like they wanted sit in the other room. And it hit me. It's really a mindset of when they're re-entering the home because they had pretty similar things, struggles, and it would be like, "Hey, I'm going to honor everything you've done today. You've been home, you've been with our kid all day, you've been researching all the treatments, you've been researching all the therapies. I'm going to honor that."

The other one, "Hey, I'm going to honor the fact that you are out trying to make the finances to make that happen because insurance is not great in this regard." So it was like I'm going to honor what you're doing instead of compare. I'm going to carry each other's burdens.

There's this one lady, it was such a great example of this. She said that when her two kids that are both on the spectrum, she said they'd be home and their days were really, really tough. And she said she would hear the garage door go open and the kids would, and their dad would come in and they would race to Dad and wrestle with Dad. And she's like, "I couldn't get a hug out of them. Here he's been gone all day and they want to wrestle with him."

And she said it made her so angry. She goes, "I was mad at all three of them." And then she said one day she said, "You know what? I'm going to join in." And she said she just ran and just dove on top of them and she became a part of it. But it was just a mindset shift. It was something that was hurting her and I could totally understand.

Of course that would break your heart. Of course it's not logical, it doesn't make any sense. But she changed her mindset and that was the difference. It was a mindset shift to see the best in them. Because usually when we'll pull back, especially if somebody's listening right now, hopefully they're not in the middle of a fight so their brains are cool and calm, you can go, okay, let me just consider that for a minute. What do I love about them?

Ann Wilson: Put it in your phone. Like I'd put it in the notes and then even send it to you like, "Hey, thanks for these things."

Ted Lowe: Why don't you do that? That'd be great.

Dave Wilson: Tomorrow's always a good day. And the truth is, like you said, it's intentional because if you don't do it intentionally, you'll default to the negative. You'll see the worst. I mean when Ann and I were dating and engaged, she could list all my great qualities. "He's this, this, this." Six months later she yells at me, "Marrying you has been the biggest mistake of my life." She said that!

Ann Wilson: I felt like there's not one thing I even like about you.

Dave Wilson: She saw all the negative and it was all there and so to flip that, because I think we default to the negative. We drive by a car wreck and we all want to watch it rather than... it's the same thing in our marriages is we want to see the worst rather than saying what you just said. No, I want to default to... I want to see the positive. It's there, but I have to choose it.

Okay, we need to move because we've got three more to go. Number three, intentional thought to build your marriage is choose empathy. I guess to sabotage it is stop choosing negativity? Anger?

Ted Lowe: I think it's when you try to fix them. Because a lot of times we try to fix our spouse's emotions because we don't like their emotions. Or they're inconvenient. We go, oh, here we go again. Or we don't like, it just doesn't make any sense to us. Or we see when someone's emotional, they're not usually, but can be talking irrationally or logically, maximizing statements about things and we want to fix that.

Both men and women do it. Guys are more classic about let me just fix this. My wife told me one time after a series of this not going well and me not being empathetic, she goes, "I don't want you to fix this, I want you to feel this." And it's so much easier just to feel it, just to sit there and to look with a genuine look on my face that mimics not mocks the look on her and just, "I'm so sorry this seems this is hard."

And she's the same way, say things like, "That's understandable. If I were you, I'd feel the same way," or just "I'm so sorry that sounds terrible. That sounds so tough. I'm so sorry." Like she used to go away with her girlfriends and she still does once a year, the four of them will go on a trip, she and these same ladies and they've done it for years. And she comes back and she'll talk about they shared XYZ and I go, "Well what'd they say about it?" "Nothing."

I'm like, "Well, why didn't you talk about it?" For years I didn't get it. I was like, "Oh, she loves that trip because they're so empathetic and they don't try to fix each other." So don't try to fix it. And that's for men and women. And that's in the good stuff, don't try to fix that they love something that you don't. Like if your spouse I'll see this the holidays. You got one that loves to decorate and get everything. Oh, I can tell immediately.

Ann Wilson: And buy presents.

Ted Lowe: And buy presents. Too many presents. Too many presents. Doesn't stay within budget.

Dave Wilson: Am I supposed to feel that or fix it?

Ted Lowe: I don't know, I'm not going to go that deep with it, but it is it is the thing of there's typically one that loves all that and the other one's like are you got to be kidding me again? Why do we need multiple trees? Our house has multiple trees.

Ann Wilson: Because you have to.

Ted Lowe: I don't get it. I won't get it until Jesus takes me home and then I'm going to have some questions, but it makes her so happy. We've heard it said, meet emotion with emotion and meet logic with logic. So if your spouse comes to you with an emotional issue, feel it. Empathize with it. She comes to you with a logical issue, it might be a time to say, "Okay, let's talk." I would say if you're given homework for people just go say that's understandable about three or four times this week and watch the look on their face.

Ann Wilson: That's understandable.

Ted Lowe: Sincere.

Dave Wilson: You're listening to FamilyLife Today. I'm Dave Wilson and before we continue our conversation, let me just say this. At FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a FamilyLife partner, you help make that happen.

Ann Wilson: And I don't know if you realize this, but your monthly gift helps us equip marriages and families with biblical tools that they can count on.

Dave Wilson: Now that's a pretty good deal. And we also want to send you exclusive updates, behind-the-scenes access, and an invitation to our private partner community, which is pretty cool. So join us and let's reach families and marriages together.

Ann Wilson: And you can go to familylifetoday.com and click the donate button to join today.

What's number four, guys?

Dave Wilson: Number four, the way to sabotage your marriage would be react. The way to save your marriage is pause and respond. Is that a good way to say it?

Ted Lowe: Well, and this is one of the things I learned on the research and I thought, oh, this is why, me included, people who want to be great spouses find themselves saying and doing again that thing they swore they'd never say and do again. Or react in that way that in their more logical moments they'd go I don't want to react that way. So you'll respond in a way and they're so bewildered afterwards and go I can't believe that I've done that again.

The research is really clear. When your spouse triggers you, it triggers the same part of your brain called the amygdala that if you were to accidentally put your hand on a hot stove you'd immediately jerk it away. If you were to step in a street for just a second and you hear something come, you're going to jerk back and there's no thinking about it, it's reacting.

At the same time your frontal lobe is going a little bit out to lunch, which is where all your logic is. So it's great, the amygdala's great, we better be glad we have it because it does so many things. When it comes to marriage the amygdala's too efficient. And so you react and people react in different ways, but you react and you forget what you want for your marriage. So for if you're a reactor, if you, we've all heard fight, flight or freeze. If you're triggered, you step toward the tension.

Ann Wilson: Oh, this is me. "You want to go?"

Dave Wilson: And if you're married to somebody, "You want to go?" they go, "Hey, I need a minute." "Oh no, we're taking care of this right now while I have no logic."

Ann Wilson: Don't avoid this! We're going to air this out and we're going to air it out now.

Ted Lowe: So what I love about what I've always done is scripture and science are not in conflict with each other at all. They just illuminate each other. Even the neuroscience coming up. So way long before I get geeked out on neuroscience, scripture was very clear. So what do you do that your brain goes out to lunch and you're reacting?

James 1:19 and 20. You need to be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become that word "become" angry. And so for me, I had ADHD long before it was cool to have it. And we've been sharing stories about losing things, that's part of it. So I think for us, impulse control is a thing of ADHD and I'm not teasing about that. Clinical diagnosed. You are this, Ted. It's there's impulse.

And so I'm going, if I can learn this and I'm not always perfect by any means, anybody can. So if you can start getting into a the rhythm of when you get triggered, just don't talk at first. People listening going, oh I don't talk, I don't talk for six weeks. I'm not talking about that passive aggressive. I shouldn't have called somebody passive aggressive, that's not kind. Okay, I'll call you a stuffer that you got files that you'll pull out later.

But I'm saying for most of us we need to take a deep breath and we need to pause and we need to let our frontal lobe, the logical part of our brain catch back up. The part of our brain that remembers what we want for our marriage, that remembers that we don't want to react poorly and most importantly remembers who we are. Remember this person in front of us is a child of God.

That remembers take a breath and say I'm going to respond versus react. I say the space between triggered and reaction's where relationships are built or broken. It's right there in that space that we've got time. So I think for most of us when we look back on those times where we regret that turned into these nasty arguments, it is because in that triggered moment we said something we should not have said.

My wife told me one time she goes, "When you're angry you find your words, when I'm angry I lose them." And that's a gift I wish I could return. But what I've learned if I'll just pause and I'll take a breath and don't say anything with anything. Not with your body language, your face, I mean 80 percent of communication is nonverbal, right?

So just to take a breath and give it a second to remember how you want to be and how you want to respond if you just start to listen. Be slow to speak and don't become the spouse you don't want to become.

Ann Wilson: That's simple and yet hard. Something that we just need to start practicing. I need that one.

Dave Wilson: Last one.

Ted Lowe: Love first. That's how you build a marriage. You sabotage by scanning the relationship for what's fair and whose turn it is. This is like submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Everybody goes straight to the love and respect verses, which are great. Back up a few verses. Submit to one another.

In other words, I'm going to put your needs ahead of my own in this moment. In other words, I'm going to go first. I'm not going to try to figure out whose turn it is. I'm not going to try to determine what's fair. I'm just going ahead and love first. And it really makes sense from a spiritual perspective to say, what do we do with the ultimate act of submission? It's when Jesus looks at Abba and says, "If there's any other way, but if not, not My will but Your will."

It was the ultimate act of submission that demands a response. And when you're married it's this constant little reminders of if He can do that then I can pick up my daughter when it's not my turn to pick up my daughter. If He can do that, I can be kind when I don't feel like being kind. If He can do that, I'm just going to love first.

People say, "Oh, I'm afraid I'll get taken advantage of." You might. But let me ask you something, when somebody loves you that way is your knee-jerk reaction to take advantage of them or I'm going to see how I can leverage this to my benefit or are you drawn to do the same? And there's no promises. I can't make promises your spouse is not going to keep, but I don't think that there's anything could draw your spouse closer to you than when you just go ahead and I'm just going to love this first.

And I asked on social media what's one way that your spouse loves you first and apparently it has a lot to do with coffee and dishwashers. I don't know what that is about, but it is about coffee and dishwashers for some reason.

Ann Wilson: These have been so good.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, and I can guarantee, I'm making a guarantee, you do these five, you will build a marriage.

Ann Wilson: Ted Lowe has a book called Us in Mind: How Changing Your Thoughts Can Change Your Marriage. And you can find it by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

Dave Wilson: And also we wanted to let you know about a free guide we want to give you. It's filled with helpful marriage wisdom from real-life couples who have been where you are. And you can grab your copy today at familylife.com/marriagehelp. Again, go to familylife.com/marriagehelp for your free guide full of marriage tips.

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