FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

It's hard to turn a page. And especially you look at the Gospel of Luke without Jesus being at the table. Food is the stuff of life. And so it's something that we share, that connects us.

And I believe God created us this way. We are made for relationships. What we find is the Lord has actually provided this natural way for that to happen.

Around the dinner table, we have eye contact and conversations and expressions of blessing to one another that just happen when you remove the distractions.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us@familylife today.com. this is Family Life Today. All right, so I know you love this topic.

Speaker 2

I do love this topic.

Speaker 3

Because you love the dinner table.

Speaker 2

Well, I think one of my favorite memories growing up was the dinner table. There are four kids. Our parents and I knew exactly where we all sat. But it was my favorite time.

I remember walking in the door after gymnastics practice. I could smell the food. The table was set.

Speaker 3

Your mom could cook.

Speaker 2

She could cook. But that wasn't the beauty of it. It was the stories we would tell. The laughter, the seriousness. I could cry thinking about it, because it felt like the best and most secure part of my day.

Speaker 3

You are tearing up right now.

Speaker 2

It was the best, and I miss that.

Speaker 3

I mean, you talk about an intro for this topic. Dr. Ryan Rush is with us. And, I mean, you're probably having a hard time keeping your mouth quiet right now.

Cause she's talking about a passion of yours. The dinner table.

Yeah. Tell our listeners a little bit about who you are, where you are, and we're gonna jump into your book today for sure.

Speaker 1

I'm Ryan Rush. I can get to pastor in West Houston, a place called Kat. And it's just an amazing group of people at Kingsland and really passionate about family.

So our desire as a church is to connect church and home in intentional ways, which is what family life is all about, of course. And so we're big fans of all that you do. But we found one common denominator that keeps coming back. And it's this idea of the table.

It's just the most simple thing that a family can do. But it's incredibly profound, and it's a lost art. When you talk about your family, a lot of people have those memories. But then when you ask the question, okay, when was the last time you had a family meal?

People will say, well, it wasn't that long ago. With no cell phones, no television, where you just gathered and you were intentional and everybody was around the table. Then all of a sudden, everybody goes quiet because we've forgotten about this simple idea that makes such a huge impact.

Speaker 2

It's huge. But what has happened? Why don't we do that the way we used to? Did you do it growing up?

Speaker 1

I did. You know, I talk about in the book that I sort of had part one and part two of my childhood. Early on, I won wonderful parents, but they worked really hard. My father was working almost around the clock trying to build businesses and just wasn't around.

And we had this turning point when I was in about the sixth grade. It so happened that it was a time where we came to Christ, and so everything started to slow down. My dad had some health challenges that kind of woke him up to the importance of what mattered.

And so we started to be intentional about mealtimes at home, and it changed everything.

Speaker 3

I mean, when you say came to Christ, is that the whole family?

Speaker 1

Yes. My parents had been Christians, but they hadn't been walking with the Lord in some time. So they were just sort of cultural Christians and what have you.

My sister went to a camp, came to faith in Christ, came home, woke me up at night, and said, "Hey, Ryan, I need to tell you, I became a Christian." I was confused. You know, I was in the sixth grade and said, "Holly, I don't know how to tell you this. What did you think we were before you went to camp?"

And she said, "I'm telling you, I have a relationship now with the Lord." Three weeks later, I went to a preteen camp at the same church, and I heard the gospel for the first time that I understood it, and I came to faith.

So we went home, sat down with our parents, and they thought they'd lost us to the religious nuts. We started going to church, and six months later, our whole family was baptized together, really, in that church.

Speaker 3

Really?

Speaker 1

And it really changed everything.

Speaker 2

So you started eating together as a family as a result of that?

Speaker 1

We really did, yeah.

Speaker 2

And you've seen this makes a difference in families, Right?

Speaker 1

And we shouldn't be surprised that science eventually catches up with what the word of God said all along. So we can look in Scripture and see that mealtimes are important, and we can talk about that.

But what's really interesting is now you can look outside of that at just empirical data in study after study that demonstrates this one common denominator. If families will have meaningful mealtimes with their kids on a regular basis, the break point seems to be five meaningful meal times a week. Then all of a sudden, these measures start to show up: less sexual promiscuity, better grades, better mental health, and just about everything you want to name starts to fall into place with just that simple practice that you'd think is sort of a periphery thing, but it makes a huge impact.

My PhD is in leadership and attachment, which is the psychological study of, again, the way God designed us. We are made for relationships. What we find is the Lord has actually provided this natural way for that to happen around the dinner table. We have eye contact and conversations and expressions of blessing to one another that just happen when you remove the distractions.

Speaker 3

So you're saying we could sit around a table, I could have meatloaf and gravy and mash potatoes.

Speaker 1

Okay, you're making me hungry nowadays.

Speaker 3

No, I'm thinking, you know, I could eat poorly for my physical health, but the fact that I am having meaningful meal times at least four or five times a week, right?

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

Again, I'm making sort of a joke, but that's almost more important than what I'm eating.

Speaker 1

Or.

Speaker 3

No, I know they both are.

Speaker 1

No, I think they're both important, but I think that given the two, if you are investing time in your kids, then they're probably going to have more ability, more capacity to make better health decisions as well.

So I do think they carry over in the. I can't give you the data right now, but I believe it's true. Right.

Speaker 3

What's the definition of like meaningful mealtime?

Speaker 1

Yeah, glad you asked because I think that there are lots of people who would say, yeah, we have mealtime from time to time. First of all, it's scheduled. I mean, that seems so simple. But the reason we don't get together and do it now most often is we're just distracted. I mean, I don't think anybody means not to, but we have all the challenges, especially if you have young kids at home. Think about all the leagues, the school, the extracurricular activities. We’re pulled in different directions, and we find ourselves moving toward the path of least resistance. That’s to just grab something in the drive-through or sit in front of the television, leading to all these habits that we fall into. Or even worse, we break out the cell phones at the table and we're not paying any attention.

So just schedule something, set it up. Meaningful mealtimes need to be special. That doesn't mean they need to be four-course, Instagrammable times together. That's not what I mean. It means that you set it aside and you say our relationship together is more important than the distractions. That might mean putting the cell phones away from the table, just out of the way. It means turning the television off. It means, yeah, so you're looking at one another. I can't tell you how many times I'll go to a restaurant and look around to see families eating together, but they're all staring down. They might as well be a mile apart.

Speaker 2

We've done the same thing. We've noticed that, yeah, they're just scrolling.

Speaker 1

And they're not paying any attention to one another. So remove those things and you have a special meal to the point of the fact it doesn't need to be something fancy. You can eat out and make it a special meal. Chick-fil-A, a drive-thru sitting in the car, can be a special meal if you turn everything off and just have a conversation.

So they need to be scheduled, they need to be special, and they need to be spiritual. It doesn't need to be a devotion, but just to invite the Lord to the table. The most natural place probably left for in our culture is to pray at the meal. Right? So make that a special time. Invite the Lord to speak to you.

And it might just be one key question that you ask that calls the kids to talk about something that happened that day or elicits conversation.

Speaker 3

So let me ask if you're a family and you're listening to this and you're like, we're not really that close.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 3

When we sit down at the table, we sort of argue, you know, so we sort of avoid that because it does force us.

So we like watching TV while we eat.

Or, you know, again, I'm just making up a hypothetical, but I'm thinking some people are like, that is not gonna be a good meal time.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

What do you say to that, family?

Speaker 1

Well, the reality is we have these pleasant memories, and for some people, the table's a place of pain, and their memories are even right now. But it's amazing how God can redeem those if you'll just ask him to do it.

And so that's one of the reasons why, from a practical standpoint, you can just have a simple talking point. We provide some in the book; you can find them on the website. But they don't have to be complicated. They can just be as simple as asking the question, "If you could choose one exotic animal to be a pet, what would you choose?"

Okay, so I wanted to give an example of something that doesn't even sound spiritual but is at least bringing everybody into the same conversation.

Speaker 3

Giraffe. Does that work?

Speaker 1

Giraffe would work. I mean, it would be creative.

Speaker 3

You have to have a tall fence.

Speaker 2

But I like that it's a non threatening question.

Speaker 1

Right?

Speaker 2

Especially if people are nervous about it at that. You know, if you're starting it like, oh, okay, I can do this.

Speaker 3

Hey, if you're like me, you're like, I don't even know a question to ask. We're going to help you. Go to familylife.com/tabletalk.

Seriously, there's some that'd be like, I'm not even sure. But you're right, you have a tool. We're going to give you a tool. It's in your book as well and on your website.

But familylife.com/tabletalk will give you some questions. So is this something you did at your table?

Speaker 2

That's what I want to hear. You're married. How long have you been married?

Speaker 1

Three daughters, 33 years. Three daughters. So 31, 28, and 18. So yes, we had lots of memories around the table. However, I'm a pastor, and so what we had to face, kind of a barrier that we had, was if I tried to make it too spiritual in the sense that I was doing a devotion, sometimes practicing my sermon. To be honest with my kids, they were onto me, and it became very contrived and artificial really quickly.

So I found that devotions weren't the best thing to do. I'm 100% for family devotions, but I want to kind of talk people back a little bit who say, "Okay, I'm going to have a lesson plan, and we're going to do this," because you're going to miss the beauty and the art of what happens naturally at that table.

So we found the very best things to do would be to talk about the day. Throw out a discussion question. Sometimes we'd use some things called sticky situations. Years ago, there were these books that had these scenarios, right?

Speaker 3

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1

So we'd pick them up and they'd say, you know, you're in class taking a test in the third grade. Let's say they're third graders and a friend of yours wants to look over and cheat off of your test. What are you going to do? You know, things like that. So we'd have this conversation.

The funny thing is, years later, things would happen and they'd say, you remember we had that sticky situation. It happened today.

Speaker 3

Really?

Speaker 1

You know, not particularly that one, but, you know, you go to a slumber party and somebody brings out a six-pack or whatever, what are you going to do? So there would be things like that.

As they grew older into their teen years, sometimes it would be a matter of watching a television program together, not necessarily even a Christian program, but something that's in the culture that their friends are talking about. We'd watch it together so we could press pause and say, okay, let's unpack that at dinner tonight.

Let's say, okay, when she did this, what are the ripple effects? They made it appear to be harmless. What you just chose, what are the ripple effects in real life? Right. So now we're having serious conversations, but we're listening to what they have to say.

It was just beautiful in that way. It was sometimes controlled chaos, to be honest with you, but it works, especially.

Speaker 2

If you have sons, it can be crazy.

But we did do, I remember, at our dinner table, we would do this at bed or at the dinner table. We would just ask the question, like, and we've said this before in family life, what were the good things that happened in your day?

And what hard things happened? So that kind of high and low was just interesting to hear what was going on.

Speaker 1

Love that.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah. But the hardest thing, and I know you write about this, and, I mean, you've been thinking about this for. Well, let me ask you, how long ago did you start thinking about this whole table thing?

Speaker 1

Well, it's a good question. I've been pretty passionate about family ministry, you know, for 35 years.

Speaker 2

Why is that? Where did that come from?

Speaker 1

You know what? I got to watch my family become transformed. I was involved in student ministry for a number of years as well. And I just realized that, you know what, if I can invest in these parents, I can make a more lasting impact on most kids. It's going to take a generation. And so that caused me to kind of run down this path. I don't know. I just wake up in the morning thinking about it. And so that's where I ran.

But when I became the pastor of Kingsland about 11 years ago, I wanted to steer the culture of our church toward this idea that the home is the primary hub of discipleship, an idea that obviously my church already cared about. They knew I cared about it, but I really wanted to kind of embed that in the culture. And so I was trying to think, what is one common denominator? What is something that we can all do that helps that?

I preached a series challenging our people to the simple task of five meaningful meal times a week with the ones they love. I told them, hey, it could be breakfast, lunch, dinner, could be eating out, what have you. These are the rules. Same thing I just shared with you. I thought it might be a good inroad to have conversations about more substantive things we could do for the family.

What I didn't realize is how transformational just that one decision would be. We saw marriages restored. We started to hear accounts of students coming back to the Lord, of students revealing things to their parents that they didn't know about before because they hadn't had a conversation in so long. It was incredible. So I underestimated what it was going to do.

Speaker 2

It makes sense. And I'm not surprised when I think of talking to teens today. They're lonely, they're isolated, they have so much self-doubt. The culture is just pounding at their identity.

And so to have that time at the dinner table where your parents, or maybe you're a single parent or a blended family, to have an adult looking you eye to eye, noticing, hearing, caring, listening, that's transformational.

Speaker 1

Yes. And it's natural. It's so natural. We were made to do this, but now we have to be intentional about it.

Speaker 2

Okay, so didn't you guys pick like 40 days at the church? You're gonna do this for so many days?

Speaker 1

We did. We had a 40 day challenge.

Speaker 3

So you didn't do a 40 day fast, you did a 48 food.

Speaker 1

It's kind of ironic, isn't it? Man, that's rough, Dave. I hadn't thought about that that way. I've done those as well. But let me tell you, this has been.

Speaker 3

Well, you know, it's interesting. Even I'm making a joke.

But if I think about this, from what you've said and what we read, often you think a 40-day fast is a spiritual pilgrimage. It's going to grow your walk with God.

But a 40-day meal time with your family is going to do the same thing.

Speaker 1

It really is. It has some of the same effects in the sense that you're inviting the Lord to restore your table in a way that sort of sanctifies it.

You recognize that God has ordained this time and this moment in our life, family's life, that we'll never have again. And we want to take pockets and moments of this season to really treasure that.

And so you kind of elevate the whole experience. It's kind of cool.

Speaker 3

I know some parents think, well, my teen doesn't want to spend time with me. They're pulling away; first of all, that's normal. They're becoming adults, but they want to be with you. They act like they don't—drop me off a block from school, whatever. They act like they don't. They really do want to.

So if you're a parent of a teenager thinking, my kid is never going to sit down and have a meal with me, actually, they will, and they're really going to enjoy it. Even though they may say, "I'm not doing that," what do we do? They're actually longing to have a relationship with you, right?

Speaker 1

Yes, absolutely. And that's where that 40-day challenge comes into play. Because rather than saying, hey, this is a mandate forever, kids, we're going to get together.

If you'll say, hey, we're going to take a challenge for the next six weeks or so for five meaningful meal times a week, let's sit down and plan it, let's schedule when that could be, and let's make sure that we have these times together.

If you'll get through that 40 days, I'm telling you, your kids are going to want it too.

Speaker 2

Well, it's interesting too, because they've pastored for 30 years and so it gives you time to see a generation grow up. As the kids got older, as our kids got older, we noticed the kids that pulled away from God, walked away from the faith, but also we were noticing the kids that were strong in their faith and passionate about Jesus.

And we kind of, maybe you've done this too, tried to think like, what's the difference? To be honest, the thing that we saw were the families that were united like family. The whole family was like eating together, they'd go to church together. It seemed to make a difference more than just the great conferences, the great.

Speaker 3

Retreats, the great youth ministry, which was important. We spent all this money on youth ministry, which is important. We were like, you know what? It's not making a difference.

Speaker 2

It's family.

Speaker 1

The family is what makes the difference. Now, when we address the marginal kid or you mention Ann perceptively, what about the single mom or somebody like that?

We talk about that in the book because that doesn't preclude them from having the same benefits. And a part of the call, the body of Christ, is to say, who can we welcome around this table that can make an impact?

Speaker 2

That's good.

Speaker 1

This is a more basic example, but we have a mentoring process in our public schools that's available in Katy, and I've been a part of that for the last six years. So I don't get to have five meaningful meal times a week, but I can have lunch once a week with a young man.

And obviously, it's a public school. I can't go in and preach the gospel, but I can look at this kid who by the time they get to me, usually has had a pretty tough life and say, I believe in you. Do you understand how special you are in the eyes of God? You know, what I've noticed about you is we've had these times, so we just have conversations. Sometimes we're playing checkers together, what have you while we have lunch. But even in that case, you can do that.

So in a broader sense, what would happen if you invited a neighbor who lives alone to come share that mealtime? We've had some glorious opportunities through the years of having single parents, single moms who invite others to the table or join another family along so that their kids have access to what their family of the future could look like.

There's so many ways that this happens that can make an impact.

Speaker 2

That's really sweet.

Speaker 3

You know, it's interesting. I grew up in the single mom, so when Ann's talking about sitting down with her, her dinner table, Mine was one person. Mom, me.

Speaker 2

Your siblings were older.

Speaker 3

I have two older brothers and a sister, and they were gone. I had a younger brother who died of leukemia, so by the time I was seven years old, it was just mom and me. Wow.

And I tell you what. I mean, I don't have the memories like Ann does, and I love her family. Her dad was my high school coach. I can imagine sitting at that table with your brothers, but it was pretty meaningful—just my mom and I.

Wow. It was quieter, you know, but we rarely watched TV and ate. We rarely ate out. We didn't have the money. But just the two of us sitting there eating rice.

Speaker 1

What a cool story. And, Dave, that's all I have.

I know you think about this often, surely, but you and your mom having these mealtimes on a regular basis, and now because she poured into you, you're able to impact thousands of families all over the world because of those meals. In part.

Speaker 2

Well, I share this story in our book, *No Perfect Parents*. My mom's brother had to have chemo, so my mom had to be with him for so many days.

I was the youngest of four, so it was just my dad and me. My dad didn't cook, so he said, "Let's go out to eat." I had never had dinner with just my dad as a 16-year-old.

We started doing this once a week.

Speaker 3

Not one time.

Speaker 2

Not one time, no. And I felt so awkward. It's different to be around a whole table than just to be with my dad. And it felt awkward. I didn't know what to say.

My dad was super relaxed. He'd say, "Hey, we're gonna have some dessert." I'm like, "Oh, no, not dessert." And he'd say, "I'm gonna have another cup of coffee." And then he'd have another cup of coffee. I thought, this is lasting forever.

But then, the whole time, he'd say, "Tell me about your day. What happened?" What started out as super awkward became my favorite day.

Speaker 1

Life giving.

Speaker 2

Life giving. Because he listened to me, he looked at me, he asked me what was going on. I asked him about his childhood. We really got to know each other. When that book came out, I think he was probably 90. And I remember reading that part of the book to him. Gosh, it's gonna make me cry.

Because I say, like, dad, that was probably the most impactful thing that you've ever done with me, is just sitting and talking to me at the dinner. Not at the dinner table, but at a dinner table at a restaurant. It was phenomenal of how that shaped me and made me feel closer to him.

So I don't know the circumstances someone's in, but as an adult, as a parent, maybe you don't have, you know, your kids don't have a father or a mother. Maybe you're the dad. But to sit down with, as you said, even, you're basically a mentor to this person. To sit down and ask them, tell me about yourself, tell me how you're doing, and then to speak some words of life to that person. Whew. That's just as life.

Speaker 1

It's incredible. And you know what's funny about that? If you could take those scenarios, my mentoring relationship and a much deeper example. Thank you for sharing that. You and your dad remove the meal and it's not the same.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Oh, it's really not. You say, well, let's just sit across from each other and have the same conversation. It's not the same. And I believe God created us this way. That's a part of that attachment system that's written into our hearts, that we are connected in this way.

But food is the stuff of life. And so it's something that we share that connects us. God had this in mind. He gave us the Lord's Supper in the Christian church. And we come and we share this meal, right? That's what we're supposed to do.

So there's something deeply spiritual about it.

Speaker 2

Makes Jesus his meals with his disciples, I'm telling you.

Speaker 1

You know what's funny about you're saying that, Ann? This is a roundabout way. Remember, I'm a pastor. So let me give you an illustration. My wife just got a new car. It's a used car, but it's new to us when she got it.

It's funny, you ever done this where you get a car and then all of a sudden every car on the road it seems like is that car? You hadn't noticed them before, but they're everywhere. They were there. You just didn't notice it.

So I'm writing this book and I start to look in the Gospels. And especially you look at the Gospel of Luke. It's hard to turn a page without Jesus being at the table.

Speaker 3

He's everywhere all the time.

Speaker 2

I've never thought of that.

Speaker 1

Every chapter in the book of Luke, especially, you see him having these meals. He's sharing meals with Pharisees. He's sharing meals with his disciples.

He's sharing meals with somebody who walks in, tax collectors, prostitutes everywhere. So Jesus was using this tool right under our noses all the time. We just didn't really focus on that.

Speaker 3

You know, often our call to action is open the word of God, go to church, which are all good things, right? The call to action today is have a meal with your family and watch what God does. You know?

Speaker 1

Amen.

Speaker 3

I mean, thinking of Ann tearing up about having meals 40 years ago with her dad. Your son or daughter is longing for this.

You maybe don't believe. You're like, not my son or daughter. Yeah, they are.

And if you would be intentional to schedule it, make it a priority, it could literally change your relationship and maybe change the world.

Speaker 1

Who knows?

Speaker 3

They may be doing something like this years later because they had a meal with mom and dad. Pretty powerful.

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 3

And let me tell you, you're gonna love this book. Restore the discovering the powerful connections of meaningful meal times.

How do you get it? Send us a donation of any amount to Family Life and we will send you this book. Just go to familylifetoday.com or call us at 1-800-358-6329.

Speaker 2

Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life Accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.