FamilyLife Today®

Ann Wilson: How has motherhood surprised you?

Kate: I think the constancy. We're going to go to bed tonight and we're going to wake up and we're going to do it all again tomorrow.

Maria Goff: And you might do it through the night too.

Kate: Yes, you never know. Especially the phases that it's like, "Well, alright, I've got maybe three hours, let's see." But I think the reality of, and we're doing it again tomorrow and the next day and the day after that. And there's seasons, right? We know that. But seasons that are years long, that's a lot of days to say it's going to look roughly the same.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Today we're going to start out with a new segment called "No Judgment Zone," okay? So I'm going to ask you questions and you raise your hand if you've done this or you would do this as a mom. Okay, are you ready? Raise your hand if you've ever given your kids their passy after it's fallen on the floor without being rinsed.

Okay, raise your hand if you've ever blamed them for something you actually did.

Maria Goff: I'm sure. Oh yeah.

Kate: I probably have. I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Ann Wilson: Raise your hand if you've made your kid go to timeout just so you can have a timeout.

Maria Goff: Probably. 100% of the time, so somewhat regularly.

Kate: But it's kind of, you have your timeout when you go into your room by yourself? I put myself in timeout. Now, to be clear, I don't tell him he's in trouble. I just say, "It's time for you to hang out in your room for a few minutes and I will come back to get you."

Maria Goff: I do delineate between "you're in trouble" or "I just need a minute." Okay, so I have done like, "everybody in your room for quiet book time."

Ann Wilson: I'm done. I'm done. Raise your hand if you've ever borrowed their birthday or holiday money.

Gwen Smith: I'm pretty sure my kids are adults, so I'm pretty sure I've... like, "you got ten dollars?"

Maria Goff: I think I've definitely borrowed money from my ten-year-old.

Guest (Female): Oh, I totally do. Especially because I didn't always have cash on hand, so I would go borrow that.

Ann Wilson: Should those all be areas that we... like, there's no judgment zone here, but yeah, we probably have a lot more secrets that we could share.

Maria Goff: Of course.

Ann Wilson: So this is going to be a super fun day on FamilyLife Today because we're celebrating Mother's Day. So we thought this would be the perfect time to have a panel of moms. Dave's not even here, I think he's in Disney riding all the rides. And so we are going to go for it and we're excited to be able to talk about this today.

And I'm going to let my guests introduce themselves. So Kate, why don't you go first? Kind of share who you are, how long you've been married, and this stage of parenting, the ages of kids.

Kate: My name is Kate and I got married to my husband almost four years ago. We're just approaching number four. And we have an eight-year-old, so my husband came with... my stepson was five right about when we got married. And then a two-and-a-half-year-old boy as well.

Ann Wilson: So you got married and you became a mom immediately. I bet that's not something you thought about beforehand.

Kate: No, that wasn't on my radar of visions.

Ann Wilson: Okay, Gwen.

Gwen Smith: I am Gwen Smith and I have been married for forty-one and a half years to my high school sweetheart.

Ann Wilson: How old are your kids?

Gwen Smith: My oldest is forty, then we have a daughter, then we have a middle son who is thirty-seven, and then our youngest who is soon to be twenty-seven.

Ann Wilson: And we have Maria Goff with us. Maria, you've been on FamilyLife Today several times. Share with our listeners and our viewers how old your kids are, how long you and Bruce have been married.

Maria Goff: Bruce and I have been married for thirteen and a half years. So we have four girls: ten, seven, four, and fourteen months.

Ann Wilson: So we as moms were all in all different phases. I have grown kids and Dave and I have been married forty-five years, we have seven grandkids. But I like how diverse our group is for age, all those things, and even blended.

Maria Goff: That's what I was going to say. Kate, having a blended family and having a stepson.

Ann Wilson: So before we get going too, I wanted to say this, and maybe some of you can talk into this. Mother's Day can be great and fun, but I think for a lot of women, it can be difficult. It can be if they've lost moms, it can be really sad and hard. If they're struggling with infertility, there's just a lot of things that make it hard. Any thoughts on that?

Maria Goff: I agree. We struggled with infertility for three years before we conceived our first.

Ann Wilson: What would a program like this, would that trigger you? What do you think?

Maria Goff: I think it would be something at the time that I would just turn off because it would just be too hard.

Ann Wilson: So what would you say to that listener?

Maria Goff: I would say that it's just really hard and I'm just really sorry. And there's nothing that can make it better. You could say the things like, "I know that you're probably pouring into other kids around you in your life," but it's just not the same. And so it's just hard. It's just hard and I'm sorry that you have to walk through that.

Ann Wilson: I'm sorry too. One of our kids, our son's wife had three miscarriages too. That's a hard one. Or if you've lost a child... and so you just can't really say anything that's necessarily helpful in the moment. But we get it, and we know it's hard and we're sorry.

So if you can listen, we'd love you to stay tuned in, don't turn us off. I get it, though, I get why that happens. But let's start here. How has motherhood surprised you? Has anything surprised you about it, or maybe you had expectations that were blown out of the water?

Kate: The amount of trash everywhere that is not in the garbage can. I mean everywhere. Every corner, everywhere. I also have my stepson is very STEM-oriented.

Ann Wilson: What does that mean?

Kate: Every bottle, every cardboard box, every sticky note, every pencil, everything has potential to be something new and it must become so. So I have a bucket of literally... if you pull it out, it looks like just trash. It looks like cardboard and scraps, and that is one of our creative outlets is this bucket of garbage that I have managed to occasionally assemble into... but there's just the amount of trash everywhere.

Ann Wilson: I don't think I've heard people say that. This is surprising to me, I like it, it's new. What about you, Gwen?

Gwen Smith: I would say what surprised me, when you have kids your children's age, and especially when they come home and they're all snuggling, you can't wait until they start walking or you can't wait until they start talking and you look at all of those things and you can't wait for them to get there because you want them to become independent.

And then as I've gone through all of those phases and seeing my kids grow up, it's like, "Okay, now they don't need me as much," but they really do. Maybe not in the same way, but they really do. And I wanted always to have an open door for my kids to be able... now sometimes it's like, "Okay, not to stay!"

We open it, you come visit. And there have been a few times where you open it and you see these bags and stuff and it's like, "How long?" But to be there... someone once said, "Your kids may leave your home, but they never leave your heart." That's kind of another thing that is very true because just because they're adults doesn't mean that okay, you just let them be, but they still have adult problems and you still carry that as a mom.

Ann Wilson: For sure. What about you, Maria?

Maria Goff: I went into it thinking, "Oh, I'm going to be great at this," because I had so much experience under my belt with kids. I'd been babysitting since I was twelve. I had stayed with families that we knew and helped them after they had new babies, and so I just thought, "I'm ready."

But just the sheer volume of work and the weight of taking care of this child, these humans. After Estelle was born, it was just like it almost felt claustrophobic because suddenly I am the sole source of all sustenance for this child because I'm nursing her and she's up all night. The weight and pressure of their dependence on you as their mom was crushing to me and that was surprising.

Dave Wilson: Man, as we celebrate 50 years of ministry, we continue to hear stories of how God is transforming families through FamilyLife. Like Andrew and Eileen, for example. When they married, they were so full of hope. Weren't we all? But life's storms came fast: a newborn, family tension, and strains on their marriage, and their home just felt heavy.

But God wasn't finished. Through FamilyLife's Weekend to Remember and Love Like You mean It cruise, they rediscovered Christ's design for marriage, and they were even able, listen to this, to help Andrew's parents reconcile after years of distance, which is really what it's all about. God changes our marriage so we can impact others.

Well, here's the thing, thousands of couples are facing storms like this right now, and some are quietly hurting. Some are on the brink of divorce, and some need hope today. And I tell you what, this ministry is supported financially from partners like you who say, "I believe in this and I want to give."

And right now, every monthly donation will be matched for a full year, doubling the impact of your gift. So we really hope and pray that you'll consider joining us. All you have to do is visit familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and together we can shape the next generation of families who walk with Christ.

Ann Wilson: I think I was surprised because I thought too, "I'm going to be great at this." I went to these Bible studies with moms before I got pregnant. Like, "I'm going to make sure I'm really going to be good at it and I know all these answers and I'm going to disciple them and they're going to be these amazing humans."

I was so overwhelmed with this colicky baby and I was like, "I am awful at this. I'm so self-centered. I have no time to myself." I remember saying to my mom and my sister who had kids, "I don't even understand how you do this. I could go run a marathon right now and feel like I'm better at that, and I've never done any of that in my life. I am so bad at this."

And that can be crushing too, a feeling like I am going to mess up these people. And so it's interesting just to think through and back to those times where I don't know how I'm going to do this.

Maria Goff: Well, and another dynamic for me was the fact that we had struggled with infertility. So I expected once I finally got this thing that I wanted so bad and I waited for so long that it would just be hearts and roses. But it was so hard, and I was struggling so much with postpartum depression, all the things, that then I felt guilty that I wasn't loving it and enjoying it as much as I thought that I should or would. And that's crushing too.

Ann Wilson: Was there anything that you felt... that was probably overwhelmed. Anything you felt overwhelmed by?

Kate: I think the constancy. We're going to go to bed tonight and we're going to wake up and we're going to do it all again tomorrow.

Ann Wilson: And you might do it through the night too.

Kate: Yes, you never know. Especially the phases that it's like, "Well, alright, I've got maybe three hours, let's see." But I think the reality of, and we're doing it again tomorrow and the next day and the day after that. And there's seasons, right? We know that.

But seasons that are years long, that's a lot of days to say it's going to look roughly the same all over again. I was a little unprepared for the intensity of it's not clocking in for a few hours and then clocking out. That's not what it looks like.

Ann Wilson: Well, I can remember too, sleeping in. I loved to sleep in, and I remember our baby was six months old and I'm thinking, "We'll probably have a few kids. I will never get to sleep in again the rest of my life." But then you think, well, eighteen or... because you're not realizing that they can get up on their own when they're older, but I was like, "I have to do this for a long time."

Gwen, what about teenage years? Did that feel overwhelming to you?

Gwen Smith: Of course. So of course my daughter is the oldest, so you go through the phase of girls, right? No, tell me about that because I didn't have any. My two older kids, I'm going to say very strong-willed, both. And they pretty much have all the answers and had all the answers, and so it was never just, "I need you or you do this" and it's done.

Ann Wilson: It's a battle.

Gwen Smith: It was always a battle with them, and so I don't know if it was overwhelming or just frustrating because again, generationally it's like, "I don't remember sending my mom through this." It was like she said do it, you did it, and it was over. So that would probably just going through that with teenagers and the pushing back and you standing on it.

And then in a Christian family, that means that as they became teenagers, there were just certain things that we just would not allow and permit and all of that, and so having to push against the culture like, "Well, my friends get to go and get to do" and all of that.

Ann Wilson: Were phones a thing at that time?

Gwen Smith: They were becoming. They were becoming. She was maybe in the eighth grade when she got her first phone and that was because Daryl was headed to pick her up from a football game. But they didn't have the internet yet because our kids are the same age and so it was different.

And so the reason why we got her a phone is because he was headed to pick her up, she knew to wait at the game, his car broke down on his way there. And so he called me to come and pick him up on my way to go get her. When we get there, every light is out, every single light. And it was like, "Why didn't you ride with somebody?"

She was walking to a gas station to call us and I just, again, you feel like a failure as a mother, but there was nothing that I could do, but she was doing what she was told, "Wait for your dad" and all that. So cell phones were not a big thing, but she did get one, but it still wasn't as much texting and social media and all of that. And so I would say just that and like, "No, we don't do that as a family. We're Christian," but it's like the whole world is doing whatever. It's hard.

Ann Wilson: How have you guys, with your walk with Jesus, how has that changed or what has that done to your walk with Jesus having kids?

Maria Goff: It makes it harder for me to stay consistently spending time in God's Word. But before we got pregnant with Estelle, I was already in a Precepts Bible study. So after she came, obviously there's a lot of time where I fell off the wagon, but I've always tried to, whenever I can, whenever there's space, be a part of some kind of Bible study because there's the accountability to motivate me to stay in the Word.

Ann Wilson: So even when the girls were little.

Maria Goff: Whether and it's one of those things where it's like, "I might not get the homework done, but at least I could read through the passage that I know they're going to be talking about."

Ann Wilson: I know that when I've had young moms in our study, I'll say, "Just come. If your homework's not done, come anyway because you need this." So that's what you're saying, just to it gives you motivation and accountability like they might ask me a question. And it gets you out of the house when you're trapped in the house. But how is that then, has that impacted your parenting and just your life?

Maria Goff: The Bible study? Definitely. It's necessary. It's not optional.

Ann Wilson: I can remember and I want you guys to think through this if you can relate to this. Each one of our kids, our kids were three weeks early, six and a half weeks early, three weeks early, and every single one of them ended up in the NICU for possible head fracture, one had a temperature, another one stopped breathing right after they were born.

And so with the first one, I can remember they said something's wrong with his skull and as a mom it was crazy to me how I'm alone, Dave had gone to get something to eat as we're in the hospital and I'm alone in my room. Back then they didn't have the babies with you all the time. And I remember saying, "God, where are you? Are you in this? Do you know what's going on?"

And I felt like I have felt this so many times in my life, I felt like God was saying, "Can you surrender this little boy to me? Like Isaac in Abraham, can you lay him on the altar? Is he mine or is he yours?" And that was a battle for me because you love them. They're just born and you love them.

And I can remember saying, "I just had him today, do I already have to sacrifice him?" And I felt like God was saying, "It'll be the best thing you've ever done." Then when number two came and he's six and a half weeks early and the doctor comes in, I'm like, "Why are you in my room? Why are you here again?" the NICU doctor. He said, "We just can't get his temperature up, we're going to keep him in here," and it happened every single time with every single baby.

And I felt like that not only happened when they were born, but it happened many, many, many times of surrendering them, of saying, "God, they're yours," because I want to control everything. Can any of you relate to that and there have been times... you're all shaking your head. What does that look like for you, and do you think it's important for us as women to do that?

Kate: I think for me, especially with the stepparenting dynamic, I have a lot less control than I anticipated in motherhood because I'm not the biomom. And he was five when we got married, and so there were already patterns established.

So the reality of not getting to shape my home the way I anticipated, not getting to shape my kids the way I anticipated, not getting to decide when things like phones and tablets and all these things show up and become a ready part of my kids' lives, I was unprepared for the lack of control and how challenging...

Ann Wilson: And how old were you when you got married?

Kate: I was twenty-eight.

Ann Wilson: So you're twenty-eight years old and you have a five-year-old. So what did that look like then?

Kate: A lot of fighting. A lot of wrestling and grasping for control at the beginning. It was a lot of how on earth... and to be fair, the other dynamics here, both my husband and my stepson have a flair for chaos. That's just kind of who they are, that is their personalities. I am very structured, very ordered, that is more my MO, hence the trash that's everywhere in our house.

But so at the beginning it was a lot of grasping for control wherever I could find it. And then there were a lot of other circumstances that hit us that just eliminated any sense of possible control in those first kind of six months to really three years. But at some point, probably about a year and a half in, there was a reckoning where God just made it really clear, "You've got to let it go. You've got to let it go."

And no, it doesn't probably mean that the Holy Spirit is going to whiz through my house in the middle of the night and eliminate the construction project that's currently going on and all of the things that are stressing me out. I don't have to know what it means yet.

Ann Wilson: What did those prayers sound like?

Kate: A lot of, "I don't know if I can do this anymore. I don't know what to do. This is not okay and I don't know how to handle it." I'm a very capable person generally speaking, and that's how my parents raised me. So that was encouraged. And so I think to your earlier question of how has being a mom changed your walk with the Lord, and it's been I've never been dependent like this in my whole life.

I've never looked at something in front of me and said, "Wow, I really can't do anything about that." There's always something. There's always something I can do. And I'm looking at so many of my life circumstances and I'm like, "There is nothing I can feasibly do about that. Okay, Lord, they are yours, that's all I've got. I'm going to keep showing up, and that's about all I can bring to the table right now."

Ann Wilson: But that's everything. It's everything because you're kind of giving up and allowing God to come in when you're desperate. You can't do it, so he has to. But I think one of the hardest things to do is when we have a child that's a prodigal or has turned their back on God. There's nothing that hurts more than that.

And so that surrender of, "God I give you my child, I give you all the things they're doing, maybe they've gone the opposite way of faith," but Jesus you know them and draw them back. So be praying... your prayers are powerful.

Kate: The other part of surrender that I have really wrestled with in the last few years is: Do I really believe that God is good? Because I can't surrender my child to him... I've really wrestled with, "Okay, so you don't promise me that if I surrender him to you, you'll keep him safe, like physically safe. You don't promise that. You don't promise all these things that I would really like you to promise as a prerequisite for me to surrender to you."

So it's been a big part of my journey is really wrestling that, not just like, "I know you're good, you're supposed to be good, I believe that you're good," but God I need you to show me in your Word, I need to know it.

Ann Wilson: That's good. Well, that was really fun just to have moms of all different phases of life, different kinds of parenting. And so we're going to be back tomorrow again with that same panel and those incredible women. And if you want some tips or parenting help, you can go to familylifetoday.com/parentinghelp. And we'll see you tomorrow.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in him.