FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Overgeneralizing. One thing that millennials hate is when you judge us before you get to know us. Well, what we're trying to do, in a sense, is to say, hey, you don't like it when people judge you before they get to know you.

But you're doing that to the Bible. Why don't you read it for yourself? And then if at the end of the day, you come to the conclusion that it's not worth your time, then that's fine. Then you've made an intellectual case and decision for yourself.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at familylife today.com. this is family Life Today.

Speaker 2

So we're sitting here. I gotta tell you, Mike, I'm looking over at you, and I think your bald head's better than mine, man.

Speaker 1

Well, it might be a little too shiny. I need to buff it a little.

Speaker 2

I mean, it looks like you just cut it down today. Did you like me? Every couple days.

Speaker 3

He's got some cool glasses going on, too.

Speaker 2

I think I need the beard and the glasses. What do you think, honey?

Speaker 3

I think you're handsome no matter what.

Speaker 2

Oh, she has to say that.

Well, we've got Michael and Lauren McAfee with us today, talking about not what you think, but it's really the Bible and millennials.

But before we go there, let our listeners know a little bit about yourselves, what you do, where you're from. I know you're Oklahoma City Thunder fans and all that.

Speaker 3

You guys have done a few things that are pretty significant, and I think it'd be interesting for our listener.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Well, we both live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma City. And have been there most of our lives. Fun fact about Michael and I is that we met when we were seven years old.

Speaker 1

What?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 3

Oh, I didn't know that in Sunday.

Speaker 4

School, Michael had been at this church. And then my family started going there and when I was 7, and so we were the same age, so we ended up in the same Sunday school class and have known each other ever since.

Speaker 2

I mean, it was going on elementary school. Like, I like her, she likes me.

Speaker 1

Greatest life accomplishment was escaping the friend zone with Lauren. I can't believe it happened. So I say it took me 10 years to talk her into going on a date with me, and then took four years to talk her dad into letting me marry her.

Speaker 2

Really?

Speaker 1

Yeah. And so then 21, we got married.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Started dating at 17 in high school. And then, yeah, married at 21, right before our senior year of college. So we finished out college at the greatest school in the country, University of Oklahoma.

Speaker 2

Go Go Sooners.

Speaker 4

And you finished out senior year. We had the same major and minor. So by our senior year, all of our classes that we took were mostly together, which was really fun. Going to class, married.

Speaker 2

And then what'd you do after?

Speaker 4

I started working at Museum of the Bible, which was just an idea at the time, really. And yeah, so my dad being the founder of the museum was helpful for me to get my first job.

Speaker 2

Do y'all hear that her dad founded the Museum of the Bible.

Speaker 3

Put that in there.

Speaker 4

So I was at school and dad was kind of beginning to start what ended up becoming the Museum of the Bible in D.C. I said, hey, I'm looking for a new job. I'll just do anything.

So I started doing data entry of some of the objects that were in the collection, some of the artifacts, which was a super cool job. I got trained on how to handle things, how to do the job of a curator, and then was entering the historical information about some artifacts that were in the collection.

Speaker 3

Did you think that was fascinating?

Speaker 4

Oh, yeah. I loved it because I was learning something new every day and working hands-on with these amazing objects. So that was my first job.

Eventually, I ended up managing a team of curators for the different traveling exhibits that we did with the museum, and then I was kind of raising awareness about the museum.

So that was my journey.

Speaker 3

Let me ask you this. How long was the Museum of the Bible started after Hobby Lobby started?

Speaker 4

Yeah. So my grandfather founded hobby lobby in 1970.

Speaker 3

Oh, I didn't know it was that long ago.

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah. 70 was when he started creating mini picture frames, which is what became Hobby Lobby, their first store.

They opened in 1972 in Oklahoma City. And so, you know, it's been over 50 years and grown from that one store in grandpa's house to now over a thousand stores across the country.

Speaker 3

Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 3

And then when did Museum of the Bible start?

Speaker 4

Yeah, so Museum of the Bible started in 2010, and it began with this collection of artifacts and then traveling exhibits.

And then the museum opened in Washington D.C. its permanent location in 2017.

And it is the third largest museum in Washington D.C., two blocks south of the Air and Space Museum, one of the Smithsonians.

Speaker 3

And it's phenomenal.

Speaker 4

It's right there in the heart of.

Speaker 3

D.C. we didn't give ourselves enough time. If you haven't been, if you go to D.C. make sure you go through that because it's inspiring.

Speaker 2

So Michael, what were you doing this whole time? Just over there?

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I was living my. I like to say I was living my seven-year-old dream.

So, seven years old, not only did we meet, that was when I was baptized and saved, and that was also when we had career day. You're supposed to dress up in first grade like the career you're gonna have. Most of my friends had on professional sports jerseys; they were gonna be a quarterback or a point guard for the Chicago Bulls or whatever.

Speaker 2

You know, it's just an easy profession.

Speaker 1

That's what I should have done. But I was a kind of nerdy. I had a blazer, a clip on, tie in my Bible saying I was going to be a preacher. I say like every day, that's my goal, is to keep my wife, keep my faith and keep my job. So I'm still.

Speaker 3

Michael, you need to come here and be this job. What we do.

Speaker 1

Oh man, this is a blast being here. I mean that's. So that was. I mean our plan was pastoring and local church work, and so that's what we were doing full time. I still do that part time.

As the Museum of the Bible was getting going, Steve asked if I would come and help to do some of the church outreach. We started by doing that from 2013 to 2020, something like that. Then we realized that there was an opportunity and a need for bringing churches to provide them with faith-deepening experiences.

I'd liken the Museum of the Bible to almost like a recreated little Israel. It's this amazing place where, in a similar way to going to Israel, you can have a great faith-deepening experience. But in Israel, you wouldn't go by yourself; you would go with a guide who helps to maximize and make it like an immersive Bible study.

So, Inspire is what we do. We help to be that guide and take care of all the logistics that you would also have a guide do on your trip to Israel, whether it be getting hotels booked, arranging restaurants, transportation, and all that. So, inspire.org is where we take people and help arrange all of their experiences.

Speaker 2

Where were you guys when we did the tour?

Speaker 3

No kidding.

Speaker 1

I know.

Speaker 2

Well, we walked through there next time we went to every level.

Speaker 1

There's a lot.

Speaker 2

Even went to the cafeteria. Yeah, you know, but no, it was.

Speaker 1

No, there's. Lauren alluded to it. Third largest in terms of public space, third largest museum. Take you nine, eight hour days to see, read and do everything at Museum of the Bible.

Speaker 2

Really.

Speaker 1

And most people aren't booking that much time. So if you want to say, hey, how do I do three hours or three days of the museum? Well, we can really maximize it and.

Speaker 4

Get the highlights with the best highlights.

Speaker 1

Have like a pastor or scholar take you through.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, I mean, that makes sense for this book. Yes.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean, understanding all that, not what you think, why the Bible might be nothing we expected, yet everything we need. And as we read through it, there's a lot in terms of you're really reaching into the millennial.

Speaker 3

That was fascinating.

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Talk to us, you know, about what does that mean? Why that? How's that? You know, how do they and who are they? I mean, we've got three sons. They're all millennials.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

So we know, but a lot of people don't even know what age group that is.

Speaker 3

Are you guys millennials?

Speaker 4

We are millennials.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah. We're pretty firmly depending on where the demographic breaks. Something like 1980 to 1995 or 2000 somewhere in there.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

So we're like right in the middle.

Speaker 1

We're in the center of 87. It really did come out of. As we were traveling around spreading awareness for the forthcoming Museum of the Bible, we were having conversations with a lot of people that were the age of our parents or grandparents who were passionate about the scriptures and were disheartened or discouraged seeing their millennial or Gen Z kids or grandkids that didn't share the same passion that we had for the scriptures.

We found that there was a language gap of sorts. As technology has advanced and society is changing at a rapid rate, it is harder and harder for generations to sort of talk to each other because their shared experiences are less and less. The world that their kids or grandkids are growing up in today is so vastly different than it was 20 or 50 years ago.

This was our attempt to try and write a book to say, like, man, if we could sit down with your child or grandchild and have a cup of coffee, we would just talk to them about why they should consider the Bible. Typically, they've walked away from it not because they've actually read it, but because they've heard someone say why it's not true or it's not good for the world.

This would be our attempt to reason with them why it's worth their time. It's not what they think it is. It's not a book that's oppressive towards women or people of color, nor is it just a book filled with a ton of rules that you have to obey well enough in order to earn God's favor. Rather, it's about the one person who did obey those rules perfectly and died in our place for our sin.

By helping them understand what the Bible is, we hope to lead them to a place where they would want to read it for themselves.

Speaker 2

Now, are you finding that millennials are interested in the b?

Speaker 3

I thought your three camps were really interesting.

Speaker 4

You know, Michael mentioned as we were writing this book, it was as we were kind of raising awareness about the museum and the Bible. So we were having a lot of conversations about the Bible. And as Michael mentioned, you know, those that were parents and grandparents and millennials were seeing this disconnect.

But as we had conversations with the millennials and gen zers to try and better understand kind of where millennials are coming from, most of them were really disengaged, mainly because they hadn't read the Bible. But a lot were at least open to a conversation. Now, some weren't, but some were completely closed.

However, those that were in that kind of movable middle, that were curious enough, had known something or had seen some Christians that were living it out. They thought, "Okay, maybe this isn't the worst." They were really open to conversations about trying to understand the Bible, especially as they could understand the historical significance of this book.

In the Museum of the Bible, we have a whole floor that's dedicated to sharing what the history of the Bible is and helping people see that this is a book that has been around for a very long time—generations.

Speaker 2

Longer than Harry Potter, I was going.

Speaker 4

To say longer than any other piece of major literature that most people would have read or be familiar with by a long shot. This is a book that is significant, has had incredible staying power, and not only that, but it's had incredible influence in our world and helping them just have a different understanding and a different approach than the sound bites that they're hearing about the negative things that might be associated with the Bible to bring them into a conversation where their interest was piqued.

And then there was a lot of receptivity whenever we were having conversations with millennials and gen zers. We also discovered that there was a strong pocket of those in our age group that were very committed to what the Bible said. I think that came in large part because we've lived in a culture that has not been advantageous to be a Christian, whereas maybe some previous generations found it easier to identify as such.

In previous times, it was something that was easy to say and maybe was like a positive thing for you to say that you were a Christian or a Bible believer. As a generation growing up in a context where that wasn't necessarily always a positive and sometimes has actually been a negative, those who really believed in this and were committed to it were very dedicated, which was very encouraging.

Speaker 3

I was surprised that you found 27% of all millennials read the Bible at least once a week. That was actually. I was encouraged by that. That may not sound like a lot, but I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1

And it's hard to know. I mean, exactly. Are they saying that? It's like any poll that we just come through the presidential election time, and it's like, how accurate is it? But the reality is that there is a pocket that's really Bible engaged and committed to it. Praise God. There's a pocket that is biblically skeptical, even to the point of hostile towards the Bible. But the vast majority of our generations, and actually the majority of Americans, are open to the Bible. Maybe they're friendly to it, or maybe they're at least neutral to it, but they're sort of open to spirituality and would be open to the story of scripture. Scripture and have not yet engaged.

And so that's what we really tried to do, was to we address the far ends, but really try to target that middle section to appeal to them. The way that we try to appeal to them is one thing that millennials hate. And this is overgeneralizing, because we are a huge generation, which is something we talk about. And so we don't like being generalized, but overgeneralizing. One thing that millennials hate is when you judge us before you get to know us. Get to know us, but don't sort of throw labels on us.

Well, what we're trying to do, in a sense, in this book is to say, hey, you don't like it when people judge you before they get to know you. But you're doing that to the Bible like, you're dismissing the Bible before you've even read it for yourself. You've just heard someone else say that it shouldn't be trusted. Why don't you read it for yourself? And then if at the end of the day, you come to the conclusion that it's not worth your time, then that's fine. Then you've made an intellectual case and decision for yourself. But don't judge the book before you get a chance to know it. And if you're going to get to know it, start with the gospel, start with Jesus. He's the center of the story. And then make a decision for yourself.

Speaker 3

Who would you guys want to read your book? Is this for millennials? Is it for parents to give their.

Speaker 2

Millennials, don't judge us Boomers? I know we got a phrase, boomer. It happens to every generation. It really does. But, yeah. Who are you writing this for?

Speaker 4

So we wrote it as millennials, writing to our peers, our millennial generation and our younger siblings, the Gen Z. But what we found that has been, I think was maybe surprising for me once was that a lot of the parents and grandparents of millennials and Gen Zers said that they read the book and it was so helpful for them to understand their millennial kids and grandkids.

So really, I mean, I think I've heard from as many, if not more parents and grandparents saying that they enjoyed reading it because it did help give them a lens and a framework for, okay, here's why my kid or grandkid thinks differently, and here's what's shaping their perspective. It helps them step into that space and then better connect with family whenever they're having these conversations about maybe differences that they have or why they believe different things.

And really, that's been such an encouragement to us to see that. But originally when we were writing it, we thought it was going to be to our millennials, and we have heard positive feedback from those that were in our generation, too, that helped give an authentic framework that helped them feel seen and understood in the way that we were kind of outlining the book.

But also really see that the point, what we hope people walk away with is that people can see the understanding of everything is about Jesus. For them to have a better understanding of who Jesus is, what the Bible is about, and that it's about a God that loves them so much that he sent his son who sacrificed his life and died and rose again for them.

To see that message come through, just ring through really strongly. And that was a major hope that we had from the book. Hopefully, that's what millennials have been able to take away.

Speaker 1

Able to walk away with. We both, we were influenced greatly by Tim Keller and his ministry.

Speaker 3

Well, you have a foreword by Tim Keller. We're like, wow.

Speaker 1

The first few pages are the best of the book, hands down. I think about his book, *The Reason for God*, and how immensely helpful it was for me as a Christian in learning how to speak to non-Christians about the Gospel.

What we're seeing is a lot of what I hope we strove for: an empathetic tone towards their concerns and the hurdles they face in considering Scripture. It's important to allow them to have their voice and to identify with their questions.

Then, we can gently lead them to consider that something else might be true than what they've assumed.

Speaker 3

I kind of like that you guys are millennials, too, because you're talking to your peers like, hey, we get you. We are you. And here's what we've come to discover.

Speaker 2

Empathetic tone comes through.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

Not judgmental at all. It's like we're fellow travelers with you. Consider this, you know, more like an invitation than a challenge. It's a little of both, but that's the hope.

What would you say to those parents who are saying, "My son or daughter has walked away from the Bible," or "I raised them in church with the Bible, maybe we did even devotions"?

And again, there's an epidemic of that happening. So a lot of our parents are like, "How do I approach my son or daughter who's 30, 35? And I'm not sure what to do."

Speaker 4

We mentioned already that a lot of people's understanding of the Bible or what the Bible is about was based off of maybe sound bites or things they've heard in culture. But the other significant thing that I found, and this was mainly from conversations we were having with millennials, as well as research and data that we saw, was a lot of millennials are skeptical about the Bible and its message because they know someone who claimed to believe in it, who has deeply hurt them or someone they know, or they have seen harsh, unkind, mean voices that claim to be Christ followers who did not represent the fruit of the Spirit. And that was very really put off the kind of whole Bible and Jesus.

For those that are maybe wanting to have conversations, I would say start by listening. In our opportunities to listen, we heard a lot of really painful stories of people, millennials, sharing the particular situations that they had been in, that was maybe someone from their church or even a ministry leader, how they had treated them wrongly or really hurt them through some experience. I want to understand and have compassion and empathy in knowing where people are coming from, and that there's a lot of pain associated with some people when they think about Christianity in the Bible. Starting with listening well and understanding is, I think, a really good posture to begin those conversations.

One of the things that we both often say is you can't blame the Bible for the way that broken and sinful men and women have misused it. They may claim it and not live that out. No one's ever going to live it out perfectly, right? But for the ways that we see people not upholding and living out the Bible, we don't blame the Bible for that. The Bible is not at fault. So give the Bible a chance, understand what it teaches. While also, you know, I’m so sorry and hate that you've had this hard and really hurtful experience with someone who claimed its truth but did not live it out.

I think listening and having empathy, and then gently pointing again just to the truth and the beauty and the hope of the gospel is important. The beauty of what the Bible teaches should be something that is better and more beautiful than anything else this world has to offer. If we communicate the goodness of it, it should draw people to want to understand our creator better.

Speaker 2

You know, it's interesting how much we hear that. Yeah. That is often heard. Church hurt, I guess you're saying, sort of Christian person hurt, you know, somebody that claims to be and not living that out.

When you're saying that, I was thinking, isn't it interesting if you read the Bible, you'd be like, wow, they didn't live it either.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

The very people of the Bible probably hurt a lot of people because they claim faith and didn't live that way. So that's one of the things I love about it. It's so honest. It's so real. It's not plastic. It is not covering up anything. It shows you the sinfulness of mankind, why we need a savior.

But, I mean, if a parent has a child who's seen it, or maybe they see it in their own parents or Dave.

Speaker 3

I was thinking it'd be interesting because we have done this with our millennial kids, but to have conversations, I mean, Dave was the pastor of our kids' church. And so to ask them, like, how have you guys seen church hurt in your own lives? How did you experience it? They're very open to talk. You know, everybody has a story.

As a parent with a millennial, I don't think we need to take that personally. Maybe if it is personal, there’s a great opportunity to apologize or to repent or to say, like, "I've never thought how difficult that must have been for you." Our kids all have a different story and a different lens that they've seen and experienced it through. It could open some doors to hear where your kids are coming from.

Speaker 4

Absolutely.

Speaker 3

I bet you guys have stories that you could share every. It sounds like you have kind of a pretty amazing background.

Speaker 1

Well, no, I mean, being willing to. I mean, just to commend the parents and grandparents you're talking about, I mean, being willing to enter that conversation, I think takes courage and coming at it with humility. I mean, we've all seen it go wrong when you don't have that posture.

And man, I mean, even just yesterday, I saw a friend of mine post something online and in private messages, I offered a different perspective on something that he posted on. We have a relationship, and so it was immediately met with, "Wow, you're right, I never thought about it like that." We just began a dialogue.

Especially today, when there's so much kind of division and vitriol in our culture, it's a space that the church has a real opportunity to lean into and to have good conversations in humility, holding up truth, but doing it in a way where we approach it knowing that we don't have to defend Christ's church. We don't have to defend Christ's Word in the sense of correcting someone right in the moment when they express something that isn't true. We can acknowledge their pain, acknowledge their hurt, acknowledge their questions, and let them have a safe space to process with you.

Speaker 2

So this friend that posted recently, you private messaged him?

Speaker 1

I did, yeah. I mean, it was just an Instagram story post and it was on an issue. He hadn't thought it through. And so I just said, well, have you considered this alternate perspective? And he said, you know what? That actually does make sense.

Speaker 2

I mean, what I'm highlighting is you didn't go into the comment section and challenging publicly, which is what I see. Even people I know.

Speaker 3

Oh, and then everybody jumps on a side.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

I mean, to do it privately and say, let's have a conversation about this. And I'm guessing just by your tone, even in your book, it was not a judgment. It was like, hey, here's a different perspective. And he was open to that. Way to go.

Speaker 1

Yeah, well.

And again, having the relationship, like, it wasn't just someone I knew; it was someone that, you know, we've gone and had lunch privately.

Like, we have a depth of relationship where I said, I wouldn't say this to everyone, but yeah, it's important for us to have conversations.

Speaker 4

Yeah. I think that that just highlights the importance of, like, truly caring about people, like, caring about people over maybe your own desire to be right or over, you know, being right about issues. It's when you start first about caring about people. I mean, we see that Jesus really went and met with people. He, of course, had a large following, but really he focused on investing deeply with people.

Then he would go and find people like the woman at the well. He went and met with a tax collector and met with these people that you would think are not the "right," quote unquote, people for him to be spending time with. But he cared about people. He saw people and met them where they were.

I think that's a heart that I hope all believers would approach tough conversations with—wanting to look and see, okay, the person that we are talking to. We may disagree on things, or there may be hurts and hard conversations, but this is a person that is created in the image of God. I should see them as an image bearer and treat them as such, with human dignity, respect, and love, because God loves them and Christ loves them.

So how can we find common ground and then have hard conversations with that starting point, continuing to show respect, empathy, and care even as we point out maybe hard truths sometimes? I think that's not always easy, especially today. People are not accustomed to that approach, but I think that is what makes it so beautiful for the sake of living out the Gospel—showing there's this other way to come and approach things.

Speaker 2

When you were saying that, again, one of my favorite passages in the New Testament is Luke 15, where you have Jesus telling three parables that have the same point, which means he's hammering something home. The coin, lost coin, lost sheep, and the lost son, the prodigal. But it's interesting how that whole passage starts. He's sitting with tax collectors and sinners, and the religious people say he's a friend of sinners. And I think Jesus is like, that's a badge I wear with honor. That's what we all should be.

So my last question would be this. If you're a parent, and you've got a millennial or younger who is just not interested at all in the Bible, maybe they were at one time, but at this time they're not. Coach the parents; what would you say to a parent to say, how could I help? Because, you know, they're just, oh, I'm praying, and I'm wanting my son or daughter to at least open it up and investigate what's in there. Maybe they've forgotten. Maybe they never have.

What would you say to a parent to encourage them to say you can have an influence? In what way?

Speaker 1

It's always said anytime a question like that is asked, the power of prayer. I mean, the power of the importance of a praying parent. Like, we could talk about that for five minutes. So I'll just leave it there.

Beyond that, something I think that is helpful that I learned from Peter Williams, who wrote a great book on Luke 15, the Surprising Genius of Jesus. He told us one time, whenever you have someone that is skeptical, ask two questions. Especially this would be someone that maybe isn't coming from the church, heard, but genuinely has questions related to scripture.

What is your hardest question that you have about the Bible? And then second is, what's your most important question? Those two questions for me have been a great conversation starter for people that have questions because the caveat is your hardest question. If I can provide a reasonable answer that shows that there is a reality where that has an answer, would you then be willing at least to concede that every other question, every other hard question that you'd have could have an answer for it?

But the most important question really drives at the heart what that is for you, keeping you from considering Christ, you know, great questions. And so. And it really does. And that gets to helping them disentangle.

Millennials, Gen Z. Every young generation hates authority. And so, like, trying to put Christianity as a, like, authority structure or the church as an authority. Like, they're rejecting the church, but they're rejecting every authority. Right? Like, and so it's not even necessarily personal to the church in a lot of senses, helping them say, like, have you just considered Jesus?

Like, you know, as a result of whatever your main question is, can we consider Jesus together? Which is why I think a great place to start is to get them to read one of the gospels with you and just consider the Jesus of the Bible and take away the opinions of everyone else, in a sense, and just study the Scriptures.

Speaker 4

And one thing that I would add too is just the very practical, like, let them see how much you love the Bible yourself. This is something you read, this is something that you seek to live out. This is something that is the most important thing impacting your life, and to let that display for them the significance of this book in your own life.

I think that should hopefully cause curiosity and at least an openness to, okay, this is really important to you, mom or dad. Hopefully, it will soften the heart of their children to want to then consider that or at least have the conversations.

Speaker 2

I did a chapel one time for the Detroit Lions. I did it every week, so 11, 12, 16 of these a year. And we were on a road game, I think Philly. I remember it was basically, I'm going to talk about how important the Bible is to be reading it.

The guy sitting in the front row, that's the Bible scholar. I mean, this guy's been to seminary since, but he was a Bible guy. He was our kicker. I opened the chapel saying this: I go, "Hey, the Bible's so important. I want to talk about how important it is for you to read it. So, hey, take your Bible right now. Turn to the book of Hezekiah, and I want to talk about it."

And Jason goes. He goes like this with the Bible. He puts it down because I caught him, you know, because there's no Hezekiah book in the Bible. There is a man named Hezekiah, but he started then he realized everybody else in the room was still flipping through looking for Hezekiah.

But it was just making the point that, you know, this is a book we say we revere. We need to read it.

Speaker 3

I bet you added something about, I bet you know every play in the playbook for football.

Speaker 2

Exactly. But you don't know the most important playbook. Let me say this. We would love to say you, this book, not what you think about the Bible. This is good stuff. And here's how it works. You send us a donation because we're a listener.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

If you need more on this or any kind of parenting help, you can get more@familylife.com it's going to be a benefit to you because we all need some help.

Speaker 2

Family Life today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.