FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Okay. I have a question for you.

Speaker 2

No, don't start with a question.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm going to ask you. So as we were raising our kids and we would compliment them, do you think we complimented them more about their performance or their character?

Speaker 2

I wanted to give the right answer. Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. Hi, I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 1

And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us@familylifetoday.com. this is Family Life Today. Do you think we complimented them more about their performance or their character?

Speaker 2

I think the only one that can answer that question is them. I do think. We knew. We knew, but we were taught well. We were coached well. We knew it should be on character. But I know, as I often celebrated.

Speaker 1

Athletic accomplishments, you're so good at that sport. And not necessarily that that's bad. But we're gonna talk about why character.

Speaker 2

We need an expert to help us. And she's sitting right here. Kathy Cook is back in the studio.

Speaker 1

I wish Kathy would have parented right beside us. I wish she was in my ear with the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 2

Well, the good thing is our listeners are gonna have her do it right now.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

It's very kind of you.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And if you missed yesterday, this is day two, so go back and listen. You hear her story.

Her book we're talking about today is *Parent Differently*. The subtitle is *Raise Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture*.

So I told you yesterday I was gonna ask you, what do you mean, parent differently? Obviously, in that word, already you're making a statement.

Speaker 3

I am. And I am concerned about the lack of intentionality with our parents. I'm concerned about parents who let their busyness overwhelm them and they ride the wave, and what happens, happens without much thought.

I get it. Because of the busyness and the phone and the overwhelmed nature of culture and expectations parents have on themselves and others place upon them.

And we have so many parents today with the Sandwich generation, where they're worried about their aging parents and their own children and themselves and so many blended.

Speaker 1

Families, too, that are juggling both families.

Speaker 3

True. So I want our parents to be intentional, to set their eyes on something and shoot the arrow there, if you will. And I want it to be character. Character is life-giving. Character is life-changing. I just went to the wedding of a friend of mine. I knew the groom just a little bit, but I've known Stephanie a long time. When I watched them say their vows and I heard the testimony throughout the reception, it was all about character. What was standing up there was their character. It's what allows you to have a position of influence. It's what allows you to have relationships that matter. Without character, you'll give up on rude people, you won't stay the course, and you won't be a kind, other-centered person yourself. So why would anybody want to be your friend?

Character changes relationships, it changes education, it can change careers. And frankly, here's the thing, Dave. I wrote this book partly because I want to know they can make a difference. Now, the subtitle is really important to me: Raising kids with biblical character that changes culture. Character changes culture, not kids. It's the character in the kid that gives them a position of authority to change culture. And they can do it.

Now, I had a family pre-read the book and they told me a story of an 8-year-old daughter who had a piano lesson. The piano teacher, and I don't know about you guys, I took piano and other instruments throughout my educational career, said the typical thing: "Did you practice well?" The little girl replied, "Yes, ma'am." Then she began to play the song that she was supposedly practicing well. She was on like the third row of notes and realized the teacher was going to know that she just lied. She thought, "I said I practiced well, but I'm sounding terrible."

So this little girl lifted her hands from the keyboard, made eye contact with the piano teacher who was right there, and said, "I am so sorry I lied, I did not practice well. I am so sorry for disappointing you that I didn't practice and that I lied." That girl came home and told her parents the story of how she lied and apologized, and in that moment, she became honest. She changed culture that day.

That piano teacher, I know she was uplifted. When that little girl trusted her with the truth of her heart, that was a moment. And when the mom and dad said, "Sweetheart, you changed Miss Liz that day. You honored Miss Liz when you admitted that you had lied, humbled yourself, and told the truth. You changed her day." Can you imagine this little seven or eight-year-old girl thinking, "I changed somebody's day"? Well, they need to know that they can do that.

Speaker 1

Kathy, I'm thinking about a time when our son changed schools in the eighth grade. He was behind in this new school compared to where he had previously been. The math teacher was particularly hard on him.

One day, he came home and said, "Hey, I got a detention for the whole week." He's pretty quiet, so I was really surprised. I asked him what happened, and he explained, "Well, I was sitting in the back row with all these other eighth-grade boys, and the teacher left the room. We were banging our chairs against the back of the wall."

He continued, "The teacher from the other room came in and said, 'Hey, stop doing this.' Then our teacher came back in, and she was mad. She asked, 'Who is hitting their chair against the wall?' There was a row of like six guys, and I raised my hand while nobody else did. So, I got a detention."

I was hot about the situation, but I said to our son, "Thank you for being truthful. That took some guts."

Speaker 2

Way to go.

Speaker 3

Did the other kids not get a detention even though it was obvious? No.

Speaker 1

And he didn't say that.

Speaker 3

They all lied.

Speaker 2

And she thought it was just him.

Speaker 1

So I go to the parent-teacher conference, and she's telling me how poorly he's doing.

And I'm like, well, he hasn't had this math. This is all new to him.

And I get all frustrated and fiery.

And I said, I want to bring up this situation where you gave him a detention.

And I told her the whole thing. I said, did you think it was only him?

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 1

And she said, "I've never thought about it."

I said, "The fact that he said, like, he raises and said, hey, it was me. He just taught it, like, to me, that's like, oh, let's not even award or say anything about the character of telling the truth. But now he's learned, like, oh, I'm gonna lie the next time."

Speaker 3

Exactly.

Speaker 1

But you're right. As parents, that character piece, how do we do it? Because I feel like the world is continually telling us it's all about the performance. It's about the personality. It's about the popularity.

Speaker 3

What if I said the most important performance is character?

So what if we simply reassigned the word? I mean, I'm a former athlete and musician. I get all that. You know, I'm an author. It's valuable.

You know, we have influence and impact. But the most important performance is your character.

Speaker 1

That's it.

Speaker 3

It is what's gonna either open doors for you or shut them. It's going to give you the joy and the peace, the contentment that Christ died that we would have. You're not gonna get those things in your performances, and you have to learn that. And I don't want people to learn it the hard way. So read the Bible now. Like, don't wait and see if I'm right. You know that that proves to be true.

I know for me, when I'm a woman of Christlike biblical character, and when I make mistakes, I own them. And I don't deflect responsibility. When we become who God created us to be, everything changes. And that's one of the reasons that I want character to be intentionally taught in our homes. Because I do believe, and I know you agree with me, that when God created us, he had a plan for our lives. When he knit us together, he knew what he was doing.

I was six years old and I came home from the elementary school I went to and I said, "Mommy, I'm too tall." So many years ago, maybe 10 years ago, I'm in front of a group of elementary school age children and I'm telling my story. Because I want them to believe that they also have a story. They're not the author. God is. And you can't be whatever you want. You can only be who God created you to be. And it's a good thing.

Speaker 1

Wait, say that one more time.

Speaker 3

You cannot be whatever you want to be. You can only be who God created you to be. Really important, especially in this culture. Exactly.

And I was sharing with these children that I used to think I was too tall. I was honest with my mom, and I'm so glad she heard my heart cry. I became a dancer, and I was the center of the back row, a position of high honor that only the tallest girl could have. So it felt good.

I have no trouble getting my suitcases into the overhead bins. So my height is my advantage. Yes, I bet you do. And you look for people like me at the grocery store to find stuff on the top shelf, right?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 3

And now because of my bad back, I sit on a stool when I speak, but you can still see me when I speak because I'm tall. And it's to my advantage. When I was little, I didn't get it. The longer you live, the more you understand why you are the who you are.

A little boy came up to me afterwards, five or six years old, comes right into my personal space. I talked for 30 minutes about my story, and this is what he said to me. He looks me right in the eye.

"Hey, lady." I'm like, "Yes?" He goes, "You're not too tall. You're cool tall."

So I'm cool tall. Chatty Cathy with a low voice who struggles to spell. You have to reorient your understanding. Right?

Speaker 2

I mean, what did your mom say? When you said that to her, When.

Speaker 3

I said to my mom, I don't want to be tall anymore. Well, first of all, praise God, she didn't say, get over it. You're going to be tall. Look at your dad and me. Right. Because I'm not going to understand DNA.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 3

"Get over it" is a very hurtful thing to tell a child. The most important thing you'll do when you hear their heart cry is listen longer. You don't have to have all the answers. You sure don't have to have them right away. But you've got to have a heart of compassion. That's good to choose to walk towards your child in the moment.

She admitted she goes, "Yeah, clumsiness comes in the family." So that very night, she talked to my dad, her husband, and this is what I understand: they said to each other, "We have a daughter with a perceived problem that will never change. She will be tall."

A perceived problem that can be changed is kind of clumsy. What can we do? They problem-solved. And Dave and Ann, they problem-solved without making me feel like the problem to be solved.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 3

And by the end of the week, I was enrolled in tap dance class.

Speaker 2

Really?

Speaker 3

And that's where I became coordinated and the center of the back row, and the dancers wanted me to be there. So I went from being too tall and uncomfortable with my height to a dancer and then the rest.

Then there's many other things that happen as a result of that. But the thing is that my mom was available to me to hear my heart cry.

And I'm gonna say to you what I know is true. If I wouldn't have had, at the age of six, a mom or a dad to talk to about what was burdening me, I don't think I'd be here today on the radio.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Why would I want to stand in front of thousands of people every month if I had body image issues? Right. So the highest compliment a kid will ever pay you is to share their.

Speaker 1

Heart with you, Kathy. I did that. I think I was nine. And I love sports. And I wanted to be a football player, and I wanted to be a linebacker. I remember playing with all the neighborhood boys, with all of them.

I've shared this one other time, but I came in the house and I was crying. I told my mom, like, I don't want to be a girl. I'm so mad that I'm a girl, and I do not want to be a girl. My mom listened to me and listened to me, and I was serious. I had an older sister who was incredibly feminine, while I was more athletic. I felt like I wasn't like the other girls; I wasn't as emotional, and I was mad and I was angry.

My mom just looked at me and she listened. She said, "Oh, I know you're a good football player," which was so sweet of her to say that.

Speaker 2

She was too.

Speaker 1

She said, but I also think, who knows what God has for you?

My mom wasn't even. She would go to church, but I wouldn't say she's a Bible believing believer, you know, but she believed in God.

But she said, "Ann, I think you'll probably be a mom someday."

Speaker 3

Oh, she gave you hope.

Speaker 1

She gave me hope. And she goes, and someday I think you're gonna like it. I'm like, no, I don't. I'm not gonna like it. But I acted like I didn't like what she said.

But inside that night when I went to bed, I did have hope. I had hope.

So I'm thinking there's probably a lot of kids that are saying to their parents those words, I don't want to be a boy or a girl. I'm not supposed to be. What should they say?

Speaker 3

One of the first things I think parents and grandparents should say is, "I'm so sorry. You're confused. Confusion isn't fun."

Making decisions when we're angry is never a good thing. So I would start with, "Man, I'm so sorry. That's gotta be really hard."

Speaker 1

So you're empathizing.

Speaker 3

You're empathizing. I might say, "Tell me more," or I would just listen longer.

We teach at the ministry to listen longer. So keep talking, because the more information you have, the greater the likelihood the first thing you say will be relevant.

You don't know why they want to be the opposite gender.

Speaker 1

I just wanted to be a football player. It wasn't that I was conf about my gender, just I didn't see much good about being a girl at that time. And it switched after puberty.

Speaker 3

Bingo. It so often does. So today there's upward football in churches that girls can play. So you would look for a solution that might fit. I would ask, tell me more. Why are you feeling this way? Well, it's school today. You know this kid. Yeah. It's so often the teasing and the bullying, and I could tell you a thousand stories, but when a kid comes, I don't like my gender. I'm not sure I was born in the right body.

Listen longer. Say that you're sorry. They're confused; tell testimonies from people who have walked that journey and come out well on the other side. There's a really good place for that. Our listeners need to understand that most kids will change their mind if there's no medical intervention by the age of 18, which is so encouraging. So we've got to kind of stay out of the way.

It's a complex issue, but whatever it is, I don't want to be tall. I don't want to be short. I don't want blonde hair. I don't want to be your daughter. What a horrible thing to hear out of the mouth of a child. But then we listen longer, and we're solution-focused, not problem-oriented.

Speaker 1

What do you mean?

Speaker 3

So we ask, how can I help you? We say to that daughter, you know, I want to be a boy. What do you need from me? What would help you now? Do you need quiet? Do you need time just with me? Do you want to go out for pie every Tuesday and have mommy-daughter time? Like maybe the mom is recognizing, whoa, I haven't been involved much in her life. Should we read biographies and autobiographies of athletic women who are also super feminine and really fun? You know, I don't know. I'm talking off the cuff here.

No, I like that we become available to our kids. I think that's critically important. If the kids are not homeschooled, if they're going off to school, I would make a quick phone call to administration or a lead, a teacher that maybe knows my daughter well. And I would say, can you tell me what's going on at school? Because for the first time ever, my daughter is confused about some things. I might not tell them what. I might just say some things.

And maybe there were some incidents of bullying. Maybe a new kid's moved into the class. Maybe there was a story read in a health class. You just never know. But you got to cause there's almost always a trigger that causes that. You know, for me and my height, it was falling down. And again, not wanting to be clumsy in front of my peer groups and standing out in the crowd, I could not hide, even among 6-year-olds. So frustrating.

So there's almost always something that triggers the concern or the feeling of defeat.

Speaker 1

So don't react as a parent, be proactive.

Speaker 3

What I would actually love is that every parent listening get ready to have answers to the tough questions because they might come to your home, whether it's about gay, lesbian, gender transition, or porn or sexless out of marriage. I might be pregnant. You know, there's all kinds of things that are happening in our culture.

And I think parents, grandparents, and educators today should be ready to have the conversation. So if you're alone with the kid, you're gonna say something that you know your husband would approve of and vice versa, so that you do have a conversation right off the spot.

Then you can say to your kids, "Man, we gotta research this. This came out of nowhere. Let's come back in about an hour and a half and talk again."

Speaker 1

You know, that's so helpful. I think parents are like, I need to get every one of her books.

Speaker 3

That would be nice. I've written, oh, they need to do it.

Speaker 2

But what would you say is the wrong thing to do or the worst thing to do in that kind of question?

Speaker 3

So if they come to you with gender confusion as an example or say, "I'm too tall" or whatever, I would not say, "Well, that's just silly. You're a girl." I would not dismiss it.

If a daughter comes and says, "Man, I'd rather be a boy. I'm so athletic, and I just feel like I should be a boy," you're not going to respond with, "Well, that's just silly. You're a girl. Go play." Don't dismiss it, because it's real.

If they trusted you with their heart, whoa, you hug them and you, again, listen longer. You don't dismiss them.

Speaker 2

Tell me more. Tell me more.

Speaker 1

My brothers did say, well, you're better than most of those boys out there. I'm like, oh, thank you.

Speaker 3

Wow. Yeah. Affirmation that you needed to hear.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And one of the problems that we have in our culture is there's so much gender confusion that's not in scripture. When we teach and celebrate kids, we always go to the word of God.

As an example, boys can cook. Men can be excellent cooks, not just on the grill, although men often do the grilling, as I understand it, in a lot of families. But men can be excellent cooks and can enjoy it, and that doesn't make them women.

It doesn't mean they should have been girls. Men can cook, and women don't have the light.

Speaker 1

Chefs in the world are men.

Speaker 3

Exactly. Go to the TV shows. And who are the chefs on the competition shows? Many of them are men. So we can do a better job of, again, showing the diversity that what we need to understand about gender is Genesis 1:27. You're created male and female.

I did a chapel not too long ago with 375 8th to 12th graders, some unsaved and some saved. I was telling kind of my story and was talking about my low voice. I'm called sir a lot, and we were discussing that. It's awkward. I'm totally a female, but I have a low voice. It's a perfect radio voice. I've been told by the best of the best. I've been in movies with Kirk Cameron, and you know, he and his son were like, "You have a perfect voice." It's just so much fun to know that. And it's perfect because God gave it to me, and He doesn't make mistakes.

In this context of the chapel, toward the end, I shared Genesis 1:27, that you're created in God's image. In the image of God, you have been created. It's twice in the verse, in case you don't understand it the first time. Then it says, "male and female, you have been created." I said to the children, "If you're a male, be a male, and if you're a female, be a female." They clapped spontaneously, long and loud. They're desperate for someone to tell them the truth.

The headmaster and the spiritual life director at this school came up to me at the end and said, "You just taught us something important. We've got to get in their faces more with the truth." They realized that they had been soft-peddled on some issues. I said as the public speaker, "Like, I'm flying home if you say it. You're gonna get 60 emails in your inbox." The head of school replied, "I have to deal with that."

I do think that the wrong thing is to dismiss it as irrelevant or just a phase. You'll wake up tomorrow and think differently. The right thing is to open the word of God and to teach the truth, no matter what the issue might be. Then you find illustrations and examples, teachable moments, and you affirm their gender in ways that would be acceptable to them.

There's so much more, but I'm glad we're talking about it because it is real. Character is relevant here. If you raise kids to have biblical character and they know who they are and that they were created for such a time as this, they're less likely to believe the lie that they can be whatever they want.

Philippians 4:13 is taken out of context all the time. I like to tell kids, "It's not a T-shirt slogan; it's a Bible verse." But you know, Philippians 4:13 says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Right? It doesn't say, "I can be all things." It says, "I can do all things." We need to know the Scriptures, and we need to stand on that as our rod.

Speaker 2

Now, how do you define biblical character?

Speaker 3

It's the life of Christ and the will and the ways of God. So a lot of people talk about Christ-like character because the scripture says to become like Christ, which is great. We're not God, but we can embody His character. Biblical character is exemplified in Jesus Christ. We are called to be like Him—teachable, humble, persevering, and diligent, all the way to the cross. He is a tremendous example of character.

The Old Testament is also relevant here. The Proverbs, for instance, are filled with wisdom about character, contrasting the wise with the foolish. Figures like Daniel, Esther, and Moses, along with many of our Bible heroes, can teach us a lot about character. The Fruit of the Spirit, the Beatitudes, and the "one another" teachings of the New Testament further enrich our understanding.

So, it's more than just Jesus; it's the entirety of God inspiring us to become like Him.

Speaker 2

You know, it's interesting, on our next program, we're gonna do another one. I hope you got another one in you.

Speaker 3

Let's do it.

Speaker 2

We really want to ask you just some questions and get your wisdom on parent. A lot of the questions we've been asked.

Speaker 3

Good.

Speaker 2

But I'll ask you this because when I read your subtitle, when we wrote our parenting book, we said, you need a target. What are you trying to raise?

So we said, here was ours. And we're not saying this should be yours. We're just giving you an example. Sit down and craft something. It doesn't have to be cute or just what are you aiming at?

So I'm gonna give you ours. I wanna hear what you think.

Speaker 3

Okay?

Speaker 2

Cause it's somewhat. It overlaps in some way. Ours was to train and raise L3 warriors who make a difference where they're sent. Now again, when you hear that, you're like, okay, there's some language in there that doesn't make sense. Well, it's Wilson language: train (Ephesians 6:4). Raise warriors. We're in a battle. We're not just raising boys and girls; we're raising men and women who understand they're in a spiritual battle. They're going to be L3 warriors.

When we started our church, we were thinking, what are we about? Who are we? We were trying to decide. We're trying to make disciples. But what’s a disciple? So we came up with this phrase we call L3. It's three L words. Here’s what a disciple is. We thought from the New Testament, Jesus said, if you love the Lord with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, that’s the number one commandment. So we said, we’re trying to raise people that love God and love others. That’s the first L.

The second L was lock arms in community. So you’ve got to live in community. And the third L was something we came up with called live open-handedly. In other words, your gifts, talents, and abilities are not for you. Give them away.

Speaker 3

Amen.

Speaker 2

So you bless others. So L3 became something that at our church is like, oh, that's our goal. We're trying to love, lock and live.

So we said that's our parenting goal. If our sons, when they're men, love God and others, are living in community, and they're using their gifts and talents to make a dent where we're sent.

Sounds a little bit like change the culture.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

Make a dent where you're sent is like, I'm not here for me. I'm here to make a difference for the kingdom of God. So wherever I am is where I'm sent. God has sent me here. Let's go. So that was our sort of target.

Speaker 1

And our kids didn't really know that.

Speaker 2

Specifically that they knew it. It was important.

Speaker 3

We knew it because you oriented your parenting.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Everything.

Speaker 3

Your decision making, careers. Yeah.

Speaker 2

So when you hear that again, I'm not saying, hey, give us a hand clap. I'm saying, does that line up with what a parent shouldn't be trying to do?

Speaker 3

I love it. I love warriors because you're exactly right. We've got to be raising up warriors who know men or women.

Speaker 2

By the way, it didn't matter if we had boys or girls.

Speaker 3

Totally. No, no, no. The full armor of God is in the Bible on purpose. And we've got to pray and worship as warriors. So I think that's powerful. I love the community concept because we're not to live isolated lives. I love the open-handed approach. We are gifted to serve; we're not gifted to be prideful in it. And obviously, love comes first. You know, the great commission and the great commandment—it's all there. I love that you were intentional about that.

And yeah, we pray for it. We ask God to show us what's different about us. Family values are crucial. I write in all my books, including the "Parent Differently" book, about the question: why are you a family? God ordained family before he ordained the church; it's really important to him. You're perfectly imperfect for perfectly imperfect children. That's good because God created you to be one as a family.

So what would God show you about the children that he's asked you to raise? That's the heartfelt cry of good parents: show me why I'm doing this. What are the goals here? For me, it would be influence and impact. Part of the power that we have at Celebrate Kids is to become who you were created to be. Don't get in God's way. Without character, you cannot be who God created you to be.

So again, Chatty Cathy. Born that way. Chatty Cathy was a nickname I received at age two and a half.

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 3

If I had not been raised to have character, my parents wouldn't have called it biblical. They were not saved at the time. But I was raised to listen. And I was raised to tell the truth. And I was raised to apologize. And I was raised to not bully with my tongue. I was raised to not exaggerate, to not impress, to be a part of a team.

And that's why I'm able to be here today, and I give my parents there with Jesus. When my parents were alive, they were often asked, "What did you do right?" One of the things my parents did right was they sat in the living room when we practiced, and not just in the front row at the concerts.

They asked us about our daily work, not just about our test scores. They were intentionally invested each and every day, and they still had their own lives. So Dave and I are super grateful for that.

Speaker 2

That's awesome.

Speaker 1

Give us a homework t. Not a.

Speaker 3

Tip about doing homework, but a homework tip for the audience. If we've said some things that are relevant and giving you hope, don't be overwhelmed. So the first tip would be, don't try to do all of this in 20 minutes, because it won't work and you'll blame us. So slow down and ask yourself, what's the one thing I could do differently? And is that something I'm motivated to do differently? And then do it.

It might start with an apology. It might start where you have your kids listen to the broadcast and you sit down and you go, whoa, we learned a lot. What stood out to you? And listen to the kids. Cause they'll be honest with you if you're gonna give them a chance. But maybe for you, it's hearing the heart cry. Maybe it's whatever.

But then if you owe them an apology now, you haven't sinned. If you knew it and didn't do it, that's different. But if you didn't know it, praise God, you found the show. That's why we're here, right? So if you found something new to do, go do that and celebrate God's goodness to you and say, man, I'm so sorry that I didn't know this, but now I know this new technique.

Cause kids are telling me all the time in my parenting seminar. I know they did. You know who taught you that? You know, so just admit them. I heard this on the radio. We're gonna try a new way and then try it. And don't give up. It might take several attempts before we would get good at it. So don't give up if it's something brand new.

Speaker 1

That's so good. Because as a listener, if I was listening, I'd probably walk in the kitchen like, guys, we're doing these 10 things. I like the one thing. What's one thing?

Speaker 2

Well, I'll give you one thing to do. Get the book and parent differently. The easy way to do it is just send a donation. We live on donations. This is how this ministry functions, listener supported ministry.

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Speaker 1

If you need parenting help, you can get more@familylife.com parentinghelp family life today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.