FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

I was the worst nag to my daughter, especially when she was a senior. She called my cell phone to talk to me about something she was going through.

And I go into lecturing, and she said, "Hand the phone to Dad." They talked, and I could tell they were having a great conversation.

When they hung up, he said, "She just needs you to be with her. Just listen to her."

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us@familylife today.com. this is Family Life Today. Do you remember we had this couple in our lives when we had our first baby that said, oh, that's great, but wait till they hit two years old. The terrible twos.

Speaker 2

Yes. It would put this pit. And then.

Speaker 3

And then we got to the twos, and we're like, that's not so bad.

Oh, wait till they're five and six. It's gonna be the worst.

Then we got to five and six and we had a couple of three boys, and it was okay.

And then they were like, the teenage years gonna do you in.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Every. Every single forecast that everything was gonna be so horrible. And we get to those stages, and we're like, we love them. We love the teen years.

Speaker 2

There were difficulties in each of those stages for sure, but I think my favorite was the teen years.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we're gonna talk about the teen.

Speaker 2

Years today and pitfalls in the teen years, too.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Christian Hatton is back with us. He wrote the book *Parenting Ahead: Preparing Now for the Teen Years*.

So, Christian, you're our local resident expert. You've been through the teen years. We've been through the teen years—not our own, but with our kids. We started a conversation with you yesterday about how tough it can be.

Now, we never even asked you: when you look back on the teen years with your kids, did you love them? Did you hate them? A mixed bag.

Speaker 1

I loved them. I love them. I've loved every stage more than the next.

Speaker 2

Me too.

Speaker 1

And I can even say that with adult kids now. I thought that would be terrible to be an empty nester and be alone, but I've loved every stage.

The teenage years, to me, were so fun. But like you said, it came with a lot of trials, too. So it was both.

I mean, some of our hardest days were also in the teen years.

Speaker 2

I think what it does in parenting, and as a listener, maybe you'll relate to this. I thought, you know, I'm gonna impact my kids, and they're gonna love J. Actually, what happened is parenting shaped me more than anything.

Speaker 3

What do you mean?

Speaker 2

It shaped me because when you go through trials, you have this choice of just gutting through it or falling on your face before God, asking him to reveal himself to give you wisdom. My walk with God became closer than it ever has.

And I think it's because when you're desperate, you need God. You see it all over the Bible. When we're in desperation, we can either walk away from God or walk toward him.

And, man, I needed him for every ounce of wisdom I could find.

Speaker 3

Is that what you found?

Speaker 1

100% agree. I am a totally different person than I was 26 years ago when my daughter was born.

But I would say even 10 or five years ago, because of what's happened in these years, that everything we go through, I'm learning more and more what it looks like to depend on Jesus for everything. Everything.

Speaker 2

Everything.

Speaker 3

I mean, you mentioned earlier that, you know, your daughter went through an eating disorder and your son had anxiety. How did you wrestle through that? I mean, was it sleepless nights? Was it really hard?

Speaker 1

It was. It was a lot of sleepless nights. And there were times when I would think, okay, finally we're out of the woods. And then something else would happen, and it would be this roller coaster.

Now, though, I notice that when things happen, I'm not as rocked as I was at one point. And that's not to say I'm not rocked at all, because I still do like to control. But I realize, oh, God really was working in me, too. I really believe that it's true that even though that was happening to my daughter and my son, God had all of us in mind. He had all of our family in mind.

I think our whole family would say that because of the struggles that those individuals went through, it changed our family. The way we relate to each other, our ability to have compassion and understand one another, to sit in the hurt with one another—that was a big thing that I learned. Early on, I would try to fix things. I learned from my daughter that really what she needed me to do was just sit with her and not try to fix it all the time, but just to be.

To comfort her, to come alongside her, to remind her of God's truth, but not in a platitude kind of way. It was more about acknowledging, like, this is hard, and yet we know that God is good. So I'm gonna be here with you in this for as long as it takes.

Speaker 3

Takes how did those times affect your marriage? Because often in parenting struggles, man, it impacts our marriage.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

If your kids are struggling, it does.

Speaker 1

And I think my husband and I, and this maybe is true of all married couples, the way we deal with things is differently. And so there have been times in our struggles where, you know, he's the one that's more frontline dealing with things and I'm feeling just depressed and unable, and then it would switch. So God is good in that way, and he's equipped one of us to be more on the front line.

But together, I mean, these are our children, this is our family. And so what that looks like to come together and grieve and pray and hope together is, I would say, the same thing that I say about the trials of my kids is true in marriage. The trials of our marriage, which includes things with our kids, has really strengthened our marriage.

And we're coming up on 20.

Speaker 2

That's cool.

Speaker 3

Well, you mentioned control and you talk in the book about different parenting styles. Like some over control, some under. I don't know if that's your default control.

Speaker 2

What are the different styles?

Speaker 1

Well, yes, control is my default over parenting. And under parenting I talk about in the book and then get to the root of what is driving those type of.

Speaker 2

Okay, do it with Dave and I. I would over parent for sure.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 3

I would probably under.

Speaker 1

Okay. So you were the helicopter mom and you were the permissive dad.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 3

Yeah, to a point.

Speaker 2

I'm the bad cop, he's the good cop.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 2

And we get in fights about that.

Speaker 3

Okay. And I want to see them fail. I mean, I don't want them to, but I'm like, it's okay if they fail because they're going to grow.

Speaker 2

I don't care if they. Yeah, I did care if they failed because I didn't want them to be sad. I hated when they were sad.

Speaker 3

It's like, if you didn't study for that test, well, guess what? Good luck.

Speaker 2

My God.

Speaker 3

And she'd be like, let's sit down right now and we're study for that test. Come in here. And I'd be like, if they're not going to do it on their own, they're going to reap the consequences. And that's a good thing.

Speaker 1

That is a good thing. So that doesn't sound like the under parenting parent. That sounds like a very.

Speaker 2

Whatever.

Speaker 3

What do you think? I do See, this is why it affects your marriage. Because she's like, that isn't what you did.

Speaker 2

You just didn't want to know the bad things part of it is our style of conflict.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

He would avoid conflict so he didn't want to talk about it.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 2

And I would want to over talk everything because I'm more controlling. And here's the bad part that I would do as an over controlling parent. I would start thinking ahead of what could happen.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

I think a lot of parents can do that. Like, well, if this happens, it could lead to this. Which could lead to this. Which could lead to this.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. The what ifs, that's what drives that fear and anxiety.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Because now we've played something out that they didn't get invited to this one thing in kindergarten and now they're never gonna have friends.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Never gonna get married.

Speaker 3

You're not gonna make the Olympic team because they didn't play soccer at 8.

Speaker 2

I'm gonna admit Dave's parenting style was much healthier than mine. He would sleep like a baby because his children weren't his idol.

Speaker 3

Well, it's because I didn't realize how bad it was. I just thought, oh, they're great. They're not going to parties, they're not drinking. Oh, I guess I was pretty naive.

Speaker 2

And they were great.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

But every teenager goes through some difficult patches. We all do.

Speaker 1

That's right. And sometimes parents wanna stay naive. They would rather not know. But that can be an idol too. Is that they just wanna keep the peace.

Speaker 3

And so you're saying I worshiped an idol. Okay. I did.

Speaker 2

Perhaps.

Speaker 3

Okay, well what's better? Over or under? Or is it just.

Speaker 1

Well, there's another way. There's a third way. So both of those styles are driven by what is our idol underneath that. They could actually even be the same idol but for different reasons. An over-parenting parent may want their child to be happy, and so does an under-parenting parent. But how that manifests is very different. An under-parenting parent that wants their child to be happy is probably going to abdicate their responsibility in disciplining or setting boundaries or rules at all. They may not say no, just give them what they want because then they'll be happy, and that'll be easy. Now, I get peace, and they're happy, and we have a good relationship.

On the other hand, an over-parenting parent also wants their child to be happy. They want to ensure that they can clear the path so that their child can get what they want. This may be the parent that goes to the teacher or the coach or tries to coordinate all the details to make their kid get what they want them to have so that they're happy. So underneath, it was the same idol; it just looks different.

Let me say this: both types of parents love their children very much. It's just that if we know our hearts, our hearts are deceitful, and something can crop up that is ruling us. If we don't stop, like we talked about before, to really identify what is driving my parenting, then we just continue on that path, and the repercussions can be not good. I'll just say it that way.

That is another reason why I wrote this book, because I thought, goodness, if parents before the teen years can see this play out. So that's where the title comes from, Parenting Ahead. If I can play it forward for you to see how your child may be whining for a snack too close to dinner time, and you give in, that feels real benign, and it probably is on one day. But let's say over and over and over, your child learns, "Ah, if I whine and nag and beg, I know how to get my mom to give in and give me what I want."

What does that look like when all of a sudden she's 16, 17, or 18, when that has become the habit? What was underneath that for the parent is, "I just want peace. I just want her to go away and stop whining. I'm just gonna give her the snack or let her do that." Then all of a sudden, she's a teenager, and it's really hard to say no to some of those things if we haven't been doing that all along. That was our ruling idol that led to that.

Speaker 3

Is there a way that you help parents identify that it's an idol?

Speaker 1

Well, there's a couple ways we can identify idols we've talked before about. What do we worry about? I would say our emotions are very telling of, like, why did I respond so strongly? Might be telling what we think about how we spend our money.

I also, I don't know if y'all are familiar with Paul Tripp, but I love his analogy of the clenched fist or the open palm. So if you can envision an idol in the palm of your hands, and if you have to have it, you're gonna close your fist around that and demand, and you are going to do everything in your control to try to get it.

But if I can just let it be there, whether I get it or not, I can be okay. So that would be a case. It's not ruling me. So my marriage or children, if I have to demand to get something, then all of a sudden I've put them on this pedestal and it made them my functional savior.

Speaker 3

I remember Tim Keller often would say in sermons, it's an idol when it becomes the ultimate. In other words, if my child doesn't make this team or doesn't get this grade or doesn't get asked to the prom, whatever it could be, the ultimate would be, oh, my world's over. I can't function anymore. This didn't happen.

But if it's, you know, that's disappointing. I really wanted this for my child, but it didn't happen. That's not an idol. That's disappointing. You live in the disappointment. It's hurtful. It's something you walk through. But when it's the ultimate, like, my world can't go on because she didn't get the date, that's a different deal. Right. That's like an idol. It's the grabbing, closing your fist type deal.

Well, one of the things we mentioned, even Andy, at the beginning, was parenting pitfalls. You write about that. What are the pitfalls we should look out for as parents? Obviously, the idle thing is a big deal.

Speaker 1

Yes.

And I will just say that we hear today about college students, young adults who are struggling in all sorts of ways with mental health and entitlement and just not feeling equipped.

That is a consequence of our over parenting and under parenting. So that is a huge pitfall that we really need to take serious and evaluate our own hearts.

Speaker 2

Did you ever ask your kids if they felt like you were over parenting? I guess you wouldn't use the term over parenting.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It would be like helicopter parenting.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Do you feel like I'm too involved in your life maybe?

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Would that be a good question to ask?

Speaker 1

I think that would be an excellent question to ask. What would you like from me differently? Or how can I show up for you? Or what am I doing that is maybe overbearing to you?

Speaker 2

I remember asking our teens that maybe every six months, am I doing anything that really bugs you? And they always had an answer, Kristin.

Speaker 3

They always had an answer.

Speaker 1

But isn't that great that you could ask them and receive that?

Speaker 2

Because I wanted to know, you know, as a parent, you can tell when you're begging your teenagers, like, they let you know by their facial expression or, you know, whatever, rolling their eyes. But I wanted to know if there's things that I'm doing that are overbearing.

I remember one time our son said, "You bug me all the time about going to bed." He's in high school. Like, why do I have to have a bedtime? You know? And I'm like, "Because then you need to learn. Like, you're gonna take this test in the morning, and you need good sleep."

He said, "And I'm not old enough to figure that out." And I thought, yeah, you are old enough. And if you go to bed at 2 a.m. because you're playing video games, I guess you'll bear the consequences of that.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 2

Sometimes it's really good to hear from our kids what they're thinking.

Speaker 1

It is. I agree. And it's hard for us to let them figure out those consequences themselves. But they need to, because they're gonna go to college and they're gonna just be faced with it. And so it's better if all along the way, we are letting them experience some of those natural consequences.

One of them that I was thinking about is I was the worst nag to my daughter, especially when she was a senior. I would walk by her bedroom and I would see her on her bed watching Netflix. And I would know all the applications that she was supposed to complete or the homework that she needed to do, and the tests that she needed to study for. It would just undo me. Like, how could she be laying there watching Netflix?

And so I was always like, "When are you gonna do this?" Then I would, like, circle back by 30 more minutes to see if she'd made any progress.

Speaker 2

Can you imagine if somebody did that to us, how irritated we would be?

Speaker 1

Of course she was irritated with me. Of course. Really? I didn't realize it at the time, but she really was withdrawing from me.

And then there was a time, kind of in that same era, where she called my cell phone to talk to me about something she was going through. And I go into lecturing or something.

Speaker 2

Some sort of teaching.

Speaker 1

Some sort of teaching. And she said, hand the phone to dad. And I was like, you called my cell phone? And now you want me to hand the phone to my husband? But I did. And they talked.

I could tell they're having a great conversation. I'm just. I can hear his end of the conversation, thinking, what in the world?

But then when they hung up, he's like, she just needs you to be with her. Stop trying to fix her. Lecture her, teach her. Just listen to her.

Speaker 2

I can remember having those same feelings where one of our sons, if it happened to each of them, like, we would bug each other because I'm thinking all the words coming out of my mouth are. You need to. You should. When are you going to? Because there's this litany of things that need to be done or that he's not doing. And I realized, like, everything I'm saying to him is negative.

We would do this on a regular basis. I would take him out for a meal and just sit with them. What's going on? And it was so good for me to do that because I could tell I was bugging him and he was bugging me. It's like with teenagers, sometimes you bug each other and you don't necessarily like who they are right now or how they're treating you.

And so I can remember at the end of those little dinners, I remember always thinking, there you are. And he probably thought the same. Oh, there's my mom. She's not telling me constantly what I should and shouldn't be doing. She wants to know how I'm doing and what's going on. What's hard in your life right now, what's great in your life right now.

I think that's a big deal, and that helps. We can start doing that before they're teenagers, too.

Speaker 1

That's right. And we should just intentionality. Because we are so often, if we think about what our conversations are, they're exactly what you just said. Have you done this? Did you take your trash out? Have you done your homework?

And so we need to pull back and let's just be with them. Let's get to just talk about other things, show an interest in what they're interested in, even if it's not something you're interested in, playing with them. I think sometime between the toddler years and the teen years, we forget these kind of things. But our kids, we just need to have fun.

So when my boys were growing up as football players, I was out in the front yard throwing football all the time. Now they come home from college and we'll go play pool or we're playing a game at home, pickleball. They feel connected that way.

And then it's amazing how when you have that time of connection, then they often do open up more about other things that are going on that they don't want to tell you when all you're doing is relating to them as just a drill sergeant.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

What are some of the negative consequences of under parenting?

Because you both talked about over. Sounds like you both are similar that way.

You got the guy over here who's like, oh, I probably should have stepped in at more times. So I under parented.

Speaker 1

But, you know, it's interesting. The consequences for the child are actually the same with both types of parenting, which I think is so fascinating. And so when I was getting my master's in counseling, I made this kind of my research topic because I was like, how is it possible that you can have over-parenting parents and under-parenting parents, and we all end up with these young adult kids that are struggling in the exact same ways with anxiety and depression and low self-efficacy and suicidal ideation and entitlement fear.

So going back to fear, I think that was the connecting point between these two types of parents. Both parents were afraid, but for different reasons. And so it fleshed out differently. But the consequences for our kids, our adult kids, is the same. So pulling back the reins again, back to our own hearts, that's where we start with this kind of the pitfall that we fall into.

And I would say too, when we are not proactive, when we are not thinking ahead of time. Because so often in parenting, I mean, we are just being constantly bombarded with decision-making and issues coming at us. And so if we haven't given any forethought, we're just kind of going along and we get caught up in the culture.

So I would say again, as early as possible with our spouse to sit down and really think about, like, what are these things that we want for our children, like by the end of 18, when they're ready to launch, like, what is it that we hope to instill? And again, there are no formulas, but these kind of provide guardrails of like what it is that we want our family to be about. What are our values and how are we going to go about doing that?

For us, church was a value. Family time was a value. And so that meant that sometimes we said no. They didn't get to say yes to every invitation that they were given. They didn't do. And my kids were all athletes, but we didn't do all the competitive sports. And so there were things that became limits for what we were going to be about because we were thinking proactively about what we wanted most.

Speaker 3

Now you work with parents; you counsel parents. How many parents don't do what you just said? I mean, we wrote a book about that and we said the secret is Jesus.

But also, you gotta have a target. You know, as a parent, sit down and say, "I've got a two-year-old. What do I hope they'll be when they're 30?" We found most parents never have that conversation. Is that what you found?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I really do. And again, that is really what's motivating me now to talk as much as I can to parents before the teen years.

Because I see what a difference it could make if they catch this early on before teenagers or in the counseling office or before it feels too late.

Even though I believe that there's always hope in Jesus.

Speaker 2

We've all heard that saying. If you aim at nothing, you'll hit it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2

But we do that with our kids. And it's so easy for it to happen to any of us, because with babies, you're in this survival mode, you know? And then you have another baby and you're in another survival mode.

But I think taking that time as a couple, if you're married, and if you're single, to have a godly friend that you can talk to and think, what are my goals? What do I desire for my kids? And then what's my plan to reach that? I think that's just a really good conversation.

And you're right. We somehow find the time to watch our shows. I do. You know, we all do. I'm watching something on Netflix. I'm on, like, the fifth season of Downton Abbey right now.

Speaker 3

She is. I'm over there watching football, and she's.

Speaker 2

Watching Downton, and I'm like, what could I be doing? But as a parent, I know you're exhausted. The first thing you want to do is veg out after a long day to come up with your plan of what you're hoping. That is so significant, and it has.

Speaker 1

Great benefits, and it really saves time and worry. If you've already set out ahead of time, this is gonna be our guidelines for how we filter through our decision making.

It doesn't mean that it's easy. We're still gonna get pushback at times from our kids. But we can then tell them, like, this is what Mommy and Daddy have decided, and this is why.

And so it's always an opportunity. I always love to think about parenting as an opportunity.

Speaker 3

What would you say to the parent of a teenager that is really struggling? Their teen is really struggling. They've prayed, they may be with their spouse, and have said, "This is our dream, our goal. This is what we're hoping for. We've done all the right things."

They think their teenager has been in church, they've had family support, and whatever it is, they've had a strategy. And yet, my teenager is struggling—maybe walking away from the faith, maybe struggling with their sexuality, or whatever one of those things may be.

But they're right there as a parent, and they've got a 15-year-old, 16-year-old, or 17-year-old still in the home, and they're like, "We don't know what to do."

Speaker 1

I hear that all the time. And I'm so sorry if this is your experience right now in the church. I hear this a lot because our kids are struggling and it's hard. I would say move toward them, just keep loving them because there's so much that we can't control. The timing, we can't control their struggle.

I think that we still, depending on what the issue is, hold fast to our boundaries and our beliefs, but we love and embrace them and have them know that we are there for them. We are going to sit here with them in it for as long as it takes. There’s nothing that could change our view of them.

Ultimately, that points back to God, that he loves his children even when we continuously sin. He smiles upon us because of Jesus' work and worth, not ours. We are the embodiment of Christ to our children. So we just keep moving near.

Speaker 2

I love that, and I think too, as we do that, pray as a couple. If you're married, pray. God hears those prayers.

It may feel like nothing's changing and he's not there, but he is. And I love that he's always moving toward us too as we move toward our kids, to love them, encourage them, and speak life to them.

Speaker 3

And never give up hope.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 3

God has a plan. We know. We've seen it in our own kids. We've seen it in other friends kids. God's at work. You may not even feel it at this moment. He's at work. Trust him. Get on your knees. God's got a good plan for them.

Speaker 2

And we would love to pray for you. And we even have a team at family that can pray for you. Just go to familylife.com prayforme we would.

Speaker 3

Love to lift you up by name. So again go to familylife.com prayforme and we will pray for you and our.

Speaker 2

Team will pray for you and we would love for you to get Kristin's book called Parenting Ahead if you send any donation. Any amount?

Speaker 3

Yeah, any amount. Just go to familylifetoday.com and you can make your gift there, and we will send you perionate ahead.

Preparing now for the seniors.

And again, if you're not an Internet guy and you want to make a phone call, you can call us at 1-800-358-6329. You're going to memorize that one of these days.

Speaker 2

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