FamilyLife Today®

Abbey Wedgeworth: You can tell them all day long about the importance of repentance. But if you're saying, "I'm sorry I lost it on you, but you all were being unhinged," and then you're blaming, what do you expect? Your ten-year-old is going to come back and say, "I'm sorry that I did that, but you were..." We teach them to excuse their sin if we're excusing ours.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: We've got Abbey Wedgeworth back with us today. If you didn't listen to yesterday's episode, go back and listen to it. Her book is called Help! I'm Ruining My Kids: A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate for Change. And who isn't?

Dave Wilson: Let's talk about it. As a husband and dad, how can we as men help our wives, the mother of our children, when they're struggling with the shame piece, the anger piece, the overwhelm? We see it and the tendency is to just downplay it and say, "It's not that bad. You've got a good life. You're a good mom." That isn't what you need. What do you need? What would you say to a husband or a dad and say, "Here's what we want. Here's what we need"?

Abbey Wedgeworth: Well, I think if we are thinking about our identity as a sinner and a sufferer, your wife has practical, physical needs. That's really a lot for someone's nervous system, all of that noise and chaos. I talked to a friend the other day and she was like, "It's just so nice to have him because the baby screaming just doesn't affect him at all. He can just take the baby and the baby's screaming and he's fine."

Abbey Wedgeworth: If you can let her take a walk, move her body, see a friend, think about the things that filled her up before she was a mom, and if you can help her get access to some of those things, think about her human needs. Can you help her get some more sleep? Can you help her get human connection? Is she feeding herself? Can you get some of her favorite snacks and help them be handy?

Abbey Wedgeworth: Does she need to go to the grocery store? But she isn't because it's really hard to think about putting four people in the car and all the variables that come with a mid-aisle meltdown. Look for ways to care for her physical needs. It's hard to ask.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And I think the other piece is she really needs to hear the truth of the gospel. As much as I just soar when I hear David name the things I'm doing well, or when he tells me I'm a good mom, the benediction that I really need to be reminded of is that I am God's daughter with whom He's well pleased. And that there's nothing I can do that the blood of Jesus doesn't cover. To be told, "I see God at work in you," I need to be pointed to those eternal realities that don't feel dependent on me.

Ann Wilson: Why do you think that makes your emotions rise up?

Abbey Wedgeworth: I'm just grateful for Jesus. We could never do enough good to outweigh the bad. And that, I think I have spent so much time on that treadmill as a perfectionist. I just feel really grateful for grace. I think I'm reflecting too just on having a husband who knows and loves the gospel and what it has meant to me for him to speak it over me and to name, "I see God at work in you. I see how He's changing you, or I saw how you responded with patience." It is important to name the good. But I do think it's important to attribute it to God's enabling grace because what we don't want to do is inadvertently put more pressure on her to perform. And that's really it.

Dave Wilson: One of the things you said was just "help." Just help. Jump in the fray.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And it's so hard because we've talked, Ann, I know you've written a book about speaking life to your husband and not booing him. But when there's so much chaos, I think a mom's instinct is to reach for more control. And so you might feel like everything you're doing is wrong, or she doesn't want your help, but you're right. I think you've got to man up and just stick in there. Just stick in there.

Dave Wilson: Even if you just showed up and said, "I'm taking the kids. I'll see you in three hours."

Ann Wilson: Dave used to do that once a month with our three sons. It was a bliss day out. I can't even tell you, when I was alone in the house, which you never are, it's a fantasy. So they'd be gone for a few hours and I'm like, "What should I do with myself?"

Abbey Wedgeworth: David started taking the boys. We had two services at church and one of them was Sunday school and then the next. And I started staying home for Sunday school for a season while he took the boys. I got an hour and a half in the house by myself. He would joke with people that he would leave an ogre and then I would walk into the church lobby like Miss Congeniality. Because it just so filled my cup to have a minute alone and I could get things done and nobody was in the way. I didn't have to worry about hurting anyone's feelings. It just was a true break. And that can be so life-giving.

Ann Wilson: One of our daughters-in-law, I was asking her a question, something like, "What's been good in your life lately?" They have four kids, three sons and a daughter. And she said, "Well, this might sound crazy, but our son Austin, every single day he'll bring her this latte that he's made with his... he's a coffee guy and he's made this incredible coffee for her. And it looks beautiful. And she said he just hands it to me. And she said it's amazing."

Ann Wilson: It sounds so simple. But the fact that he thought about her, that she's not going to have time to make anything for herself that's any good, except she's eating the crumbs and the crusts and the leftovers from breakfast and lunch. So for him to come to her and hand it to her is so simple, but it's this incredible gift to her.

Abbey Wedgeworth: This is a prudent time, I think, to say that husbands are not omniscient. So if you're a woman listening to this being like, "Yeah, I would love if someone brought me a latte," you can ask. And because sometimes it's really hard to know what to do. Or just praising and thanking for the things that are working. When David makes the bed, I feel like I can do anything. If I walk in and the bed's made and I don't have to make it, it's just such a gift. Tremendous.

Ann Wilson: And Dave is good at that. I remember one time, as a mom you're just always cleaning up after everything and people. He started folding a trifold in our shower towels and he'd hang it up perfectly and then he'd fix mine. Or he'd make the bed or he's just... he's clean and I like that too. That means the world to me. It's like we're teammates. So just as a husband thinking of how can I be a better teammate.

Dave Wilson: This is the first I've heard this. Let's take a moment for Dave. No, I'm just saying I like doing that and I want to help, but I never knew that you really noticed it that much. So that's good for guys to hear that. There's guys out there, just do it even if she never said anything. It doesn't matter. You're helping her out. You're a teammate. You're a partner.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And too, sometimes I will whisper to David, "Hey, would you say this so it'll be your voice?" Because I get so tired of my own voice. And so I'm like, "Hey, it's time to call down for breakfast, will you do it?" And David says, "Hey boys, come to breakfast," and they come and I didn't have to yell. I just get so tired of the hog call all day long. So it's nice if there's something I can whisper to him like, "Hey, it's about to be a transition, will you give the five-minute warning?" It's just nice.

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Dave Wilson: Let's talk about fig leaves. Let's talk about hiding. Let's go in there.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Well, you're referencing right after the fall, poor Adam and Eve. It's so sad to me. It makes me teary to think about just this tragic scene of everything was blissful. They were naked and unashamed. And then they eat the fruit and they're covering themselves with fig leaves. And God, of course, says, "Who told you you were naked?" It's like the glass is shattered and the shards are everywhere. It's just the worst.

Abbey Wedgeworth: This is in reference to how we use fig leaves to cover ourselves. And of course God then provides a better covering for them before Adam and Eve were leaving the garden. He provides them clothing with animal skins, which of course a death had to occur for that. The first blood was shed. The first sacrifice. So that they could be clothed.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And we as believers, when we blow it, we should reach for that better covering that Jesus provides for us. We're covered by His blood. Hebrews 9 talks about that sacrifices aren't needed anymore and they weren't effective because they couldn't cleanse our consciences. But the work of Christ can cleanse our conscience. That's a marked difference in the sacrificial system.

Abbey Wedgeworth: We reach for fig leaves all the time instead of that, even though we have it. And fig leaves for a mom might be what we were talking about, about well at least my good works outweigh my bad. Or at least I'm better than her. There are moms who don't even feed their kids breakfast, or are giving them red dye, and I'm all organic whatever. We soothe ourselves with performance or comparison. And we've got to run to Jesus instead. It's just so important for us to be able to recognize when we are soothing ourselves with something that's not gospel because it's not going to hold. It does not keep us warm when we're chilled with the thoughts of what we've done wrong. But the gospel covers everything.

Dave Wilson: How do moms hide?

Ann Wilson: I think social media. It's just so fun to go into another world scrolling and it's terrible.

Dave Wilson: I was thinking in a different way. I was thinking how do you cover? Like when you started, you're saying, "I was yelling at my kids." Do moms hide that? Like I'm not going to tell anybody that? Is it a secret? Or do they feel like you, like I'm just going to tell?

Abbey Wedgeworth: Well, shame leads to isolation because we think if someone knew this, they wouldn't want to be my friend, or if someone knew this, they wouldn't respect me. If someone knew this, they wouldn't love me. That breeds isolation. So I don't think we make the intentional choice of I'm going to cover this or I'm not going to talk about this. But I think we are so convinced we're the only person for whom it's this hard.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Or we see our kids behaving in a way that we think, "I did this to them." Nobody else's kids are becoming a rage monster in their room and piling all the clothes on their floor. Nobody else's kids are slamming doors and breaking them. Nobody else's kids are fist-fighting. We see what's happening in our homes or in our hearts or in our actions and we think, "I'm the only one." And it feels too risky to share.

Dave Wilson: Sin grows in the darkness.

Abbey Wedgeworth: It's so important for us to confess because when we don't name out loud what's going on, two things happen. One, we withhold from ourselves accountability of somebody saying, "Hey, how's that going?" Which is so effective for change. You can just look at the fitness community and see the power of accountability. I love group fitness. I'm going to go. They're going to ask where I was.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And it's the same way in motherhood. I have a friend who, our husbands are both elders in our church, we have a group text, actually. There are five of us. We call ourselves the Not-So-Elder Elder Wives because our husbands are these young guys. They have little kids at home and they have these late meetings. And so we're all like, "Prayers up with these solo bedtimes Monday night." But we will tell each other like, "Hey, I blew it tonight." Solo with the kids, I lost it. And then we will preach the gospel to each other, or like, "Hey, I see you. It's not okay, Jesus covered it. I love you." And there is so much power in there because when we are seen at our worst and still loved, that's the gospel. And that's the cure for shame.

Ann Wilson: And I will say, I feel like we're living in a time where people are way more vulnerable and willing to expose the truth of their sin, basically. I can remember I went to a Bible study, women, I need this so much. I'm so excited to be here. We just had a little group of us, maybe five of us, standing talking.

Ann Wilson: And I remember saying how my son was holding an orange juice. I had an orange juice glass in my hand and he wanted it and he was pulling it out of my hand. And I was saying, "Honey, don't pull it out, just wait a minute." And he was pulling and pulling and I said, "Do you want it?" So I let go. That orange juice just flung in his face. He's all wet and he's screaming. And I told this group of women that if he wants it, well, that's going to be the consequence.

Ann Wilson: They were horrified. And I was so guilt-ridden by their faces. And I'm like, "I can't share this stuff here." But what I realized was I have to have somebody that I can expose my sin or even my frustration or maybe my tactics. Maybe it wasn't even sin, but somebody say, "Oh, I understand how hard that is," or, "I've done the same thing one time." There was so much horror and I'm thinking, "You guys have never done anything like that in your lives? Come on, somebody step up."

Dave Wilson: Do you think most moms have those kind of people? Or do you think moms really don't?

Abbey Wedgeworth: I think if we're calling someone and being like, "The kids were so horrible today," or, "I yelled at them," and then what you're getting back is, "Yeah, they're the worst," that's not pushing you towards godliness. It's not what you need in the moment. But I think it's really hard to display the sort of vulnerability that invites that vulnerability.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Even writing this book, there's a story that I tell that sometimes I opened my eyes at night just like, "It's gone to print." It's a story where I basically scream into the middle of the room the way you would scream into a pillow, but there's no pillow. I felt so out of control. And this was while I was writing the book. So I was like, last week where I'm just like, "Aaaah!"

Ann Wilson: Were the kids in the room?

Abbey Wedgeworth: Oh yeah, they were all three were there. And I know why it happened, I know what was going on.

Ann Wilson: You didn't kick a hole in the wall though. I know you kicked a hole in the wall one time. You wallpapered it back over, so that's good.

Abbey Wedgeworth: I called my sister and was just like, "I can't believe I told that story," or, "I have so much insecurity about what people are going to think of me when they read this book." And she said, "The people who are going to read this book and think ill of you are not the people who need to read it." This whole thing is putting my money where my mouth is, being like, "I'm going to go first." I'm going to let people know that you can be an author, teacher, speaker, Bible teacher, and still yell into the middle of the room with your kids.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Because what had happened for me in that moment, the context where I tell that story is really thinking, "I should be past this. I cannot believe I just struggled that way and I just told someone this. Writing this book has been so good for me, all this truth is in the forefront of my mind, I can't remember the last time I yelled at my kids." Well, now I can, it was five minutes ago. But the thing is, I want to be perfect. I want to get to the point where I don't need Jesus anymore.

Ann Wilson: And will you ever be?

Abbey Wedgeworth: Never. Never. And that's why perfect parenting as a goal is an enemy to faithful parenting.

Ann Wilson: Say that again.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Perfect parenting as a goal is the enemy of faithful, or faith-filled, parenting because we cannot depend on God more when we are trying to need Him less. That's deep. And that's really good. And that's what that moment is. And that's why I say the exposure of our sin is a mercy. That's what this friend meant. Is like anything that drives us back to the heart of God and helps us maintain that posture of dependence is a gift.

Abbey Wedgeworth: When I hear kids, grown kids talk about their moms and be like, "My mom was the best, my mom was a saint," I'm over here like, "My kids will never be able to say that about me."

Ann Wilson: Yes they will.

Abbey Wedgeworth: Well, but what I want them to be able to say, Ann, is, "My mom was not perfect, but she was a fast repenter." That's so good. Because they can take that all the way to the gates of heaven.

Ann Wilson: But because you're a fast repenter, what happens, and you probably pray this too, "Oh Jesus, let them please forget all the things that I did that might hurt them," but also what they remember is the repentance. Because in our parenting book we had our kids write at the end of each of the chapters. And I was amazed at the grace they gave me. But also our repentance and them seeing us, that teaches our kids where to go in their repentance. They go to a good Father who sees them, knows them, forgives them.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And even beyond that, I mean that is paramount, most important, is like repentance is the recipe for eternal life. So let's give it to them. Let's show them how to do it. And they don't need a perfect parent, they will never be perfect. They have a perfect example and he can't be a perfect example until he's their perfect savior. So we just point, point all day long.

Abbey Wedgeworth: But the other piece of this is repair is so valuable because it's a gift to their future marriages, their friendships, their relationships with imperfect church bodies for them to learn, "Hey, rupture can happen and restoration can occur." And that actually builds resilience in children. It makes relationships stronger. So be encouraged that the very ways that you think you are ruining your kids are actually providing opportunities to really fortify them as people. But more is caught than taught. You can tell them all day long about the importance of repentance. But if you're blaming, what do you expect? We teach them to excuse their sin if we're excusing ours. But more is caught than taught. They will follow that example.

Dave Wilson: I do think if they did see a model, it was two sinners as parents that walked through a lot of suffering and repented a lot. Ann is the best repenter ever. She is so quick to say I'm sorry.

Ann Wilson: More with them than with you though. It's embarrassing.

Dave Wilson: I mean, that was the model that was caught. Again, they're not perfect, we're not perfect, but they saw that because there was so much defeat because we blew it all the time, but there's victory in Jesus. Moms see their sin so quickly.

Ann Wilson: Oh, I see Dave's too.

Dave Wilson: She saw it with me as a husband. But you're always harder on yourself. Well, you were pretty hard on me too.

Ann Wilson: Yeah, but you're way more laid back and chill with the boys where I was intense all the time. Let's get into a little bit of our wounds. Because you get into that in your new book too.

Abbey Wedgeworth: We can think about what's going on in our present, we can think about our sin issues, we can think about our physical bodily needs and how all that impacts parenting. But one of the things I really realized as I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me is that we are super formed by our past as we show up to the work of parenting.

Abbey Wedgeworth: We can think about this in terms of wounds and gaps. So a wound is when something happened to you that shouldn't have happened. You go to a parent for compassion, you get screamed at. That creates a wound. A gap is a place that you needed care as a child that you didn't experience it. So you go for care to a parent and they're not there. They're drunk, passed out on the couch, or you're a latchkey kid or whatever. There's a gap in your care. Wounds and gaps.

Abbey Wedgeworth: And so when we show up to parenting, our wounds and gaps show up with us. Our past convinces us that we don't have choices, that we have to operate in this certain way that we have learned to depend on to keep ourselves safe. And what's helpful about this is that sometimes as moms, I think we so identify as the villains that we forget that we are also victims of a fallen world. And even then, maybe somebody's ears just perked up or they got defensive because we don't want to have a victim mentality, right?

Abbey Wedgeworth: But we need to receive God's care for the wounds and gaps that we've experienced in our past. And here's why: because we try to keep ourselves safe to cover those parts we've felt. Coping mechanisms. And God is our refuge and strength. And if we are not depending on Him, running to Him as our refuge, then we will sin to get the things we need to keep ourselves safe. We'll sin against our kids to get them.

Ann Wilson: Even the last part of that scripture, "and ever-present help in times of trouble."

Abbey Wedgeworth: One thing that I would encourage women to do is to just make a little tick with the year that you were born and draw a long line and then just kind of mark major events in your life or think about phrases that have really stuck in your head, things people have said to you, when those things were said. Take a lay of the land of your past and consider it.

Ann Wilson: We call it a timeline.

Abbey Wedgeworth: A timeline, yeah. Just get curious. I wonder how this is showing up in my parenting. What that does is it just keeps you from operating in a knee-jerk way. It helps you have some choices. Even if you can't figure out the answer, just to be curious helps you have the time to punch in the alarm code before it's full-blown sirens.

Dave Wilson: Well, you two had a great day talking about how you ruin your kids as moms. This is so relatable for us as moms, the things we're feeling, but the truth of the gospel, how to change maybe some of the things we're doing. And we're going to have Abbey back with us tomorrow for one more day.

Dave Wilson: But let me tell you, you can get her book right now. Just go to familylifetoday.com and click on the link in the show notes to get her book, Help! I'm Ruining My Kids. And by the way, subscribe to the podcast. If you like what we're doing, you need to share it with others and keep it coming to your inbox every day. Subscribe and you'll be on a journey with us.

Ann Wilson: If you need more on this or any kind of parenting help, you can get more at familylife.com/parentinghelp. It's going to be a benefit to you because we all need some help.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.