FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Hey, Shelby Abbott here. You know, many of us are just tired of the tension and the division that exists in our natural circles of influence amongst our friends and our extended family members and maybe, maybe even around our own kitchen table.

Well, how do we do that? How are we supposed to love people and create unity when we live in a culture that's easily angered and often offended? It could feel like it's just impossible to dwell in unity with one another.

Well, that's why I'm excited to invite you to join us here at Family Life for a five-week video series from our friend, author, and comedian Amberly Ness. It's called "Moving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World." And man, that is accurate, isn't it? We are living in a divisive world, and we need to move toward one another.

In this five-week series, Amberly guides us on how to build peace in our own backyards when differing thoughts, opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up right now by clicking on the link in the show notes, or you can go to familylife.com/findingcommonground. Again, that's familylife.com/findingcommonground.

Or you could click on the link in the show notes. All right, let's hop into today's program.

Speaker 2

We get rid of loneliness by giving it away. Whose loneliness can I help meet? And that inversion of self, the dying to self, the killing of the pride is the key. Give your loneliness away.

Speaker 1

Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us@familylife today.com this is family Life Today.

Speaker 3

I would say one of the loneliest people I ever knew was my mom.

Speaker 4

Oh.

Speaker 3

What do you think?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 3

You didn't know I was going there?

Speaker 4

No. For sure.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Mom and dad divorced when I was seven. Lost my little brother when he was five, like within the next three months.

Speaker 4

Of that, after the divorce.

Speaker 3

And yeah, I mean, she was a wonderful, incredible lady, but there was an ache that we all felt in her life. You knew that.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think that. And we've had friends.

Like, I lost my sister, so I watched my sister's husband raise four boys. And so I'm thinking death of a spouse. I'm thinking widows, death of a child.

There's just an ache and there's a piece of loneliness that I don't think a lot of us know how to deal with that and what to do with it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we've been talking the last couple of days with Steve DeWitt, and Jennifer's with him back in the studio about loneliness. And, you know, you wrote a book about it, but, I mean, you've thought about this a lot.

So even when you hear us talk about my mom and people that experience loneliness, all I have in my head right now, Steve, is what you've said the last two days: well, God can redeem that. God can actually meet us in that.

It isn't the worst thing in the world. It is dark and it is hard. But am I right? You've got me thinking about loneliness totally different.

Speaker 4

Me, too.

Speaker 3

You really do. And you're smiling because you're like, that's what I was hoping.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 2

That's the mission. Yeah, absolutely. Turn this inside out and see some good purposes in it.

Speaker 4

Well, and yesterday was fun. Jennifer, you came into the studio with Steve. You guys have two girls, and we heard all about your proposal because, Steve, you were a single pastor of a megachurch, and then you got married to Jennifer at 44 years old.

Speaker 3

Then the ring came down from heaven, and people were like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2

I wish it came from heaven. I had to pay for it.

Speaker 4

So go back and listen to the last two days, because this is a topic that we all face and feel, and we don't always know what to do with it. But you've done a really good job of helping us see it in a different light.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So talk to. We mentioned my mom, and there are many people like that. They've lost a spouse. My mom lost a spouse and a son, and Ann lost their sister. I mean, we've been there.

I think a lot of our listeners at some point have either personally experienced it or know someone, and it feels like the worst feeling in your life, like it's never going to go away. And I can't ever really get over it.

I've met people who have lost a spouse or a child, and they never, you know, title your book, don't hate it or waste it. Redeem it. They don't ever get to redemption.

So how would you help them?

Speaker 2

Well, I would, first of all, begin from a point of deep compassion. And I would like to say that about anybody that's experiencing loneliness for whatever reason. I think we need to have great sympathy for the visceral, ongoing experience of loneliness.

And, Dave, I think you're right. The loneliness tries to convince us that it will always be this way, that this will never change. There's nothing we can do, and this is our plight, and that is not true. It's not true Biblically, it's not true eschatologically in terms of God's plan for us in the future. But there are many things that we can do to mitigate loneliness and to redeem it.

And we've talked already at length about it. But I would say for those that are in a marriage where loneliness is chronically with them or maybe they've lost a spouse or a loved one, to again understand why we feel this way. We feel this way because God designed us as image bearers to harmonize with him vertically and with others horizontally. In a fallen world, even the best moments are always going to have a sense of longing for something a little bit more and a little more perfect.

If we have suffered in some way, like you described your mom, our heart certainly goes out to her and her story. We should not be victims of that loneliness. This takes great faith and courage, especially in a scenario like you've mentioned, to believe that God can redeem that emotion and that experience.

I would say that it never fully goes away. I wouldn't want anybody to read this book thinking, "Oh, I can find a way to never be lonely again." No, but there is a way for it not to dominate us, for us not to be victims of it, for us not to obsess over it, for it to move into the background of our emotional experience. And I think that is a good goal. There are steps through the gospel to get there.

Speaker 4

You know, I was just thinking of Naomi in the Bible, like, she loses her husband, she loses her sons, and she says, like, I'm bitter, I'm Mara. Is that how you say it, Pastors?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 4

And so even with that, like, that, loneliness must have just been seeping into her. And I was gonna ask you as you were talking, Steve, does loneliness, can it lead into depression?

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny you bring up Ruth. I think it's a great example. You know, Ruth won. She renames herself bitter.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 2

She has no hope that there's ever a chapter four coming. And yet we have this great redemptive story where not only is it redeemed, it leads to the redemption of all humanity. Does Naomi have any possible thought in chapter one that God could bring good from it? Probably not.

Oh, and most of us live lives in chapter one. Yes, life is lived in chapter one. It takes faith to believe chapter four is coming. And yet the promises of God, the word of God, the action of God through Jesus, all of these are to convince us and to help us in chapter one, that chapter four is coming, and only God can bring the chapter fours.

But as a Christian, we believe that he will. And there's great hope in that.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And when you're in chapter one, I watched my mom do this. You cope. And I watched my mom numb her loneliness with alcohol. That was her cope.

I think a lot of us, if we don't understand what to do with our loneliness, we live in bitter, you know, and we just numb out. I don't know what all the ways are, but I watched alcohol be my mom and dad's, you know, it was their escape. You know, when I do this, I feel happy. And as soon as I'm sober, I'm back to bitter.

And so I literally grew up in a home where every single night, that's what my mom did, you know. And I didn't even realize she was doing it till later, but it was her way to cope with loneliness.

I think a lot of people, even in the church, who knows some of the scripture and what you just said, chapter four is a reality because of Christ, they numb out.

Speaker 4

Jennifer, how do you think women like. I'm thinking of ways I, as a woman, can do that. You're around women as a pastor's wife. How do you think we cope? Or what can we do instead of embracing, as Steve says, our loneliness?

Speaker 5

I would say that it doesn't have to necessarily be gender specific, but speaking as a female and what I've observed and maybe experienced some of these things.

But I think that anything that is a delight that.

Actually, Steve's written a book. His other book is about enjoying God through beauty.

Speaker 4

And that's your girl promoting your books on air.

Speaker 2

Cross promotion. I like it.

Speaker 5

But he writes that God created beauty as something to be enjoyed, as a foretaste of enjoying him forever. And I think it's anything that you enjoy that you take to the extreme. So you look for that thing or that experience to fulfill you.

And again, it's misplaced, because that's not how God designed it. But you can enjoy food because it helps your body, but you can enjoy it too much. You can enjoy shopping because you need to get things for your family and et cetera.

You know, I think of sports; it can be relational, like putting expectations on another person to fulfill that need.

Speaker 1

Golf, I don't know why she brought that up.

Speaker 5

It can even be status, though. I mean, you think of social media as you think of things that you can just kind of go down.

Anything you think of that you can kind of be so distracted that you don't think about something. It can be anything taken to the extreme, yes.

Speaker 3

And a big one for men and women too, is porn. You know, you talk about it's superficial answer to loneliness. You know, it's just so. And it's rampant in the church as well as outside the church.

And it's a numbing to that ache that we've been talking about for three days. You know, you have a whole chapter on contentment. Can you find contentment when you're wrestling through this? I'm alone or I'm feeling alone.

Speaker 2

Well, I saw a Facebook post. It was kind of funny. It said, I can do all things through a verse taken out of context, referring to Philippians 4:13. And you know, the oft quoted, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Speaker 3

You know how many Detroit Lions players had that pasted before games? And I always want to say, guys, it's not what it's about. It's not what we're talking about.

Speaker 2

Prior to last year, it didn't work.

Speaker 3

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2

But it does apply in the category of contentment. That is contextually what Paul is saying. In Philippians 4, he basically states that contentment is non-circumstantial. We often seek contentment in circumstances or in changing circumstances to align with the desires that we have within us. However, Paul emphasizes that the key is not changing my circumstances to meet my desires, but rather changing my desires to meet the circumstances that I believe God has sovereignly and providentially placed me within.

Now, we return to the faith theme: Do I believe that God is good? Do I believe that God is sovereign over my life? Can I trust Him for things that I wish were different and maybe could be someday, that unknown preferred future? All of these are aspects that highlight the importance of gospelizing our loneliness. As I view my loneliness through the cross and through Jesus, who experienced the ultimate moment of loneliness when he cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" we see the humanity of Jesus feeling separation, bearing our sin before His heavenly Father.

Yet, that greatest moment of loneliness is also the key to redeeming loneliness, as He dies for the guilt, sin, and shame that separate us from other people and now brings us, through the gospel, into relationship with God the Father and the possibility of connection with others. It all comes back to Jesus; it comes back to that moment.

For the person who is listening and dealing with chronic loneliness, I want to emphasize that when you pray to Jesus, He understands loneliness. He experienced the greatest loneliness. Seeing loneliness in the grander scheme of redemption helps us understand that it's part of the fall; it's not a sin. It is also something that is being redeemed, and someday we will never feel this way again. All of this is part of the biblical gospel, the macro story of God and redemption. Finding loneliness in that story, I believe, can be incredibly helpful.

Speaker 4

It really gives you that hope of heaven. I've told you earlier, I know that there will be no more tears or pain in heaven or sickness.

But I haven't thought of the loneliness piece because, as you've been saying for the last couple of days, it's always with us. There's a piece of us, whether it's in the foreground or the background. There's an angst that we all feel.

But that. To think that we won't even have that in heaven is remarkable. It's such. It gives us such hope that we won't always experience it. Yeah, it will be gone.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So here's a question. I don't even know what you're going to say because I don't remember reading a lot in the book about gender, women, men, and loneliness. Because, again, I'm not saying it's totally different, but as a guy, sometimes I can think that women aren't lonely like men are. They're always talking to each other when you see them in places. If it's a crowd of women, they sit right beside each other and they're talking the whole time.

When the speaker walks up, men, on the other hand, walk into the room and they're sitting three or four chairs apart. If you get anywhere near them, they look at you like, "What are you doing, dude?" And that's definitely a reality. There's a difference there.

So as men, I used to say at my church that men have lats. That was my acrostic to say that every guy I know has lats: Lonely, Angry, Tired, Spiritually depleted. Again, we have a lot more than that, but when you say that to men, they shake their heads like, "Yeah, that's true." And then women are like, "What?"

So I think there's a sense that guys feel like women don't feel loneliness like we do. But do they?

Speaker 2

In fact, there have been studies that say, and I don't have the percentage off the top of my head, but it's perhaps a majority of men cannot name one significant friend in their life. How many people listening to this broadcast, men, if we really pressed you, who would you say is a really close friend in your life? In this way, I think women naturally are more relationally aligned and oriented and do better at this. But there are a lot of lonely men, a lot of lonely men.

And, you know, part of the gospelizing of our loneliness as men is that we have to understand that our identity is in Jesus Christ. I think a lot of it is fear for men to be vulnerable with the struggles of our life, you know, who we really are. We hide, we posture, we pretend. The gospel calls us to be real. The degree to which we are authentic to who we are is the degree to which we will mitigate loneliness in our life. I would urge men, we need to be way riskier and way more courageous in relationship building.

Quick story. So I met a guy at church one Sunday, and I just kind of liked him. I said, "Hey, let's go get coffee." So we're out having coffee, and I just kind of liked him. At the end of the time, I said, "You know what? I've enjoyed this. I would like to intentionally build a friendship with you." That was a big gulp for me; it was a moment where I was out of my comfort zone. You know, it's sort of like women would be like, "Let's be best friends." Guys, we don't do that. But I did it with this guy.

He says to me, "I'm actually feeling the same way." That relationship has become one of the most significant friendships in my whole life. But I had to be awkward, and I had to be vulnerable from the get-go.

Speaker 4

Okay, I'm just asking you guys, what is vulnerable about that? And it's risky. Why is that? I mean, I just told. I just met Jennifer like an hour ago. I'm like, we're gonna be friends. We're gonna be best friends.

Speaker 3

We would hang out with.

Speaker 2

You said that once.

Speaker 5

I love you.

Speaker 4

Why is that, Steve?

Speaker 3

You know, I’m wondering. I really enjoy you, and I wonder if we could. I would. My first thought is, it feels needy. Like you're a needy guy. I mean, again, I'm not saying it's true or not, but I mean, you write in your book about pride, and to really dive into a friendship or a relationship, you have to put away pride.

I need people. I need you. I'm interested in a relationship with you. Because, like you said, I like you. I've had that with guys, too. It's like, I think, I could hang out with this guy. This would be great.

And then there's a little bit of fear in me. Like, I don't come across like some weirdo, needy guy, you know, where a woman would be like, I like you. Can we hang out? And be like, yeah, let's do it. A guy? Sort of. There's a wall that sometimes comes up, like, okay, I gotta be vulnerable here. And vulnerability is awesome, but it's scary.

Speaker 4

So I've talked to so many women that are saying, "My husband has no friends." And I tell my husband, "You should get a friend. You should."

So this is a real thing. It probably doesn't help for the wives to say, "You need a friend." But what do men do with that? You're saying, "Put down the..."

Speaker 3

No, no. That's the expert, Steve, over there.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I'm asking you, Steve, I'm turning towards you if that's common and men are relating like, yeah, I don't. I don't have friends.

Speaker 2

Well, this is where I encourage redeeming the ache of loneliness by doing something about it. Loneliness puts a longing in our heart. So, you know, we'll have, like, a men's breakfast at church. Hundreds of men show up. And I know many of them are kind of hoping that maybe they'll connect with somebody because they feel relationally distant. They're hoping for a friend.

So I would encourage men to be courageous, take the energy that loneliness provides, and do something about it. Again, a reminder, we get rid of loneliness by giving it away. So rather than going to a men's thing and saying, "Hey, maybe you can help me," go to it and say, "Whose loneliness can I help meet?"

That inversion of self, the dying to self, the killing of the pride is the key. As we be a friend to some other guy, that loneliness recedes. And so it's giving us. We give it away. Give your loneliness away.

Speaker 4

Well, I think that's true for women, though, too, because we can go into a setting thinking, no one's reached out to me. No one has been friendly to me. I want a mentor, but no one has asked me.

You're saying this is probably true for men and women. Put yourself out there. Go serve them. Go love them. Go. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2

For both, it's not having somebody in your life. It's sacrificing for somebody in your life right there.

Speaker 4

I mean, write that down and put it on your.

Speaker 2

That is the essence.

Speaker 4

Say it again.

Speaker 2

It's not having somebody in your life. It's not adding someone to your life. It's sacrificing for someone in your life.

And that we call that friendship or a relationship within which we are giving of ourself.

But go do that and then try to find your loneliness.

Speaker 5

I do think there's two things in a woman's life that can be obstacles as well. I think specifically we just finish the diaper season with kids. And I think life circumstances can torpedo your relationships at times. You can feel very lonely, especially during the early days of motherhood, for sure. You don't have the energy to go out, or you really need to be there for your kids, and you can't physically do it. I think that is one season of heightened loneliness, particularly for women.

The second thing, I think, that sabotages is that maybe gentlemen don't want to sound too needy, but women often can be competitive. I think those are some things that can be challenging for females as well in trying to work out the loneliness season.

Speaker 4

That's a good point. And what I've seen with women is that there's that season of babies that are in the house. A woman's thinking, I don't have time to go make new friends. I can't even keep up with my husband or my job and all these things going on in my home.

Then I see another phase of empty nesters where women are feeling a little lost because they had all those kids in their house or a lot of their friends have been friends that they've made through their kids. And people are moving away as they're getting older.

I love the picture of if you're an empty nester, if you would put yourself in that position of that younger woman with babies in the house, like to say, how can I serve you? What could I do to help you as a young mom? The young mom would probably cry and think like you're an angel, and it would fill your loneliness needs.

So I like this whole idea of sacrificing for our loneliness.

Speaker 3

Yeah, talk a little bit. I know you in the book. Talking about authenticity and being vulnerable and how that sort of opens the door for friendship and helps us with our loneliness. Explain that a little bit.

Speaker 2

Sure. So here we are talking about the horizontal. Okay. The vertical is through Jesus and faith in Christ. But this horizontal dimension that is so important that God made us for socially to be in flourishing relationships with other human beings requires something that's counterintuitive to us. Pride wants to hide. Ever since Genesis 3, we've worn clothes, we cover up, we hide in the bushes. And all of that adds and compounds loneliness.

We have to invert that by knowing who we are in Jesus Christ. My identity is in him. I'm fully accepted in Christ. Now, I can approach other people not needing their approval, not needing that relationship to find my identity. So now I'm freer to just be myself and to be real and to be authentic.

We were talking about Jenny Allen earlier, who's been on your program. She writes about this so well: make it awkward and do that as quickly as possible. If they can't handle it, they probably weren't gonna be your friend anyway. But it's our weaknesses, it's our struggles that people relate to. We want to project strength, you know, we want to be our Facebook page. And none of us are okay. We are all this very contorted version of that.

But that's the basis of real relationships. Most people can think of friendships that started under crazy circumstances. We had to spend the night at the last minute. We slept on the floor. But we've been friends ever since, you know. And it's those kinds of experiences where we're real, we're not hiding, you know, we're authentic. Those are the building blocks of the relationships that end up being the most meaningful to us.

So be risky in that. Be real. Be yourself. See yourself through the eyes of Christ. And I think that loneliness can find its way into the background of our emotions.

Speaker 3

I think I've shared this here before. I don't, I don't remember. But when I first moved to Detroit, I didn't know anybody. I went there to be the Detroit Lions chaplain. I was sort of on my own. We were connected with Athletes in Action, but nobody in the city knew us. I knew I had to have men in my life; that was a non-negotiable. We need community, and these women—I need men, we need couples.

Since I didn't know anybody, I started going to churches, and I was pregnant, so a lot of times I would go to church by myself. Long story short, I found this group of guys at one church. They said, "Hey, do you want to be in our small group?"

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Meet weekly. And I'm not kidding. I decided to take a risk. I didn't know Jenny Allen's quote then because she hadn't read it yet. But be awkward early.

So I think the second or third week I opened. I mean, we're going around the room, and I said, hey, guys, I bet.

Speaker 1

There were eight guys.

Speaker 3

And again, I don't know them very well yet, but I said, I have a confession to make. I looked at the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue this week, and I never look at that. My wife won't even let me see it. But I stumbled upon it, and I'm just being honest, guys. I blew it, and I'm sorry.

And I just need to tell you guys, and I'm not kidding, the room went, are you kidding me? They were mad. They were like, "You looked at that?" I'm like, yeah. I mean, just for a second. But, yeah, nobody here, no, never would we ever do anything like that. I mean, they shamed me to death. I remember I got in my car and I said, that's not my group. I just remember thinking, half of them are probably lying.

And again, I don't know, maybe they're that righteous, but I just remember thinking, this is not going to be a group where you can be honest. And I thought, I got to find other guys. And I did. I've been with those other guys for over 30 years. They are brothers.

And that authenticity and vulnerability, we need that. I didn't ever connect loneliness to that, but that was all part of what was going on in my soul, your soul, all of our souls. And God meets that need in us vertically, and that's all we need. But he says, no, you actually need people too. Right? It's the vertical and horizontal. So, man, what you've been sharing the...

Speaker 4

Last three days, this is powerful and practical. Thanks, both of you, Jennifer and Steve.

And we all are represented by RK Media, so we want to give a shout out to Roger and Lori Kemp. They're pretty remarkable.

And we're praying for you again, Lori.

And also their team, Danny, Allen, Julian, and all of you, we love you guys.

Speaker 1

I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Steve and Jennifer DeWitt on Family Life Today. Steve has written a book called *Loneliness: Don't Hate it or Waste It. Redeem It.* What a great title, huh? This book really resonates with anybody who might be wrestling with feelings of loneliness, whether you're married or single or in leadership. It's a book that really helps you seek biblical insight and practical guidance for transforming your feelings of isolation into meaningful connection with both God and others.

So you can get your copy of Steve's book by going online right now to familylifetoday.com or clicking on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today.

You know, with all the gift giving this time of year, I've been thinking about what it really means to give a meaningful gift. It's not just about what's wrapped up; it's really about experiences. It can be about experiences and those moments that last forever because they exist in our memory. That's why I wanted to remind you about Family Life's 50% off Weekend to Remember gift cards and 20% off devotionals.

So whether you or your spouse could use some intentional time to reconnect with one another, or you know a couple who would benefit from connecting with one another, this is the perfect opportunity, the perfect gift to give. You can head over to familylifetoday.com and click on the Black Friday sale banner because all of our devotionals are 20% off and all of our Weekend to Remember gift cards are 50% off. Again, head over to familylifetoday.com and click on the Black Friday sale banner.

Now, coming up tomorrow, I'm excited to say that David and Ann Wilson are going to be joined by Jackie Hill Perry. She is always interesting to listen to, and tomorrow she's going to talk about her new devotional and really how many devotionals out there that exist right now are pretty superficial. She'll point us to Jesus and do that with style. I'm excited to hear her, and I hope you'll join us.

On behalf of David and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a Cru ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.