FamilyLife Today®

Dave Wilson: One of my favorite verses in the Bible, John 14:27, you’re going to recognize it. “Peace I leave with you,” Jesus said. “My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives to you do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.” I mean, it’s such a beautiful promise from Jesus that there’s a peace that we can access that only comes through Him.

Ann Wilson: I don’t think there’s a person on the planet that doesn’t need that verse or those words because we’ve all experienced grief, trauma, anxiety, especially in our culture today. I feel like, more than ever before, culturally speaking across the globe, this means a lot.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, and I think one of the questions is how. Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Tim and Aileen Challies are here to talk about a lot of things, but definitely peace. Welcome back to FamilyLife Today.

Aileen Challies: Thank you.

Dave Wilson: We talked yesterday about Tim’s book, *Seasons of Sorrow: The Pain of Loss and the Comfort of God*, talking about you walking through the death of your son, Nick. If you missed yesterday, go back and listen to that. You can read all about this and your journey at challies.com, which is just a beautiful blog.

So, we talked yesterday about your journey, but here’s where I want to ask you: the passage I just read where Jesus talks about this peace, how did you access that? Did you experience a peace in the middle of walking through the last couple of years of this journey of grief?

Tim Challies: I think we really did come to a point of peace, and I think we got there through an understanding of God’s sovereignty. This is God’s world. We sing that hymn, “This is my Father’s world.” Well, we just chose to believe that that was true.

If this is truly God’s world and God is truly King, He’s truly sovereign in this world, then in some way, Nick’s death was God’s plan. The God who numbers our days—we might have assumed God had numbered Nick’s days at 80 years or 90 years—it turns out God had numbered his days at 20 years.

We just had to believe that this was God’s plan and God’s will. Once we were submitted to God’s sovereignty in the death of Nick, then we found hope because we knew this was God behind this. That gave us just a whole lot of peace and comfort.

Ann Wilson: Aileen, I’m thinking about you as a mom with this 20-year-old boy. It was sudden. He just collapsed and passed away instantly, it sounds like. You’re in Canada and he’s in Louisville, and your daughter was also going to school there. Was there any point that you were questioning God of, “What are you doing? What’s happening right now?”

Aileen Challies: If you had asked me four or five years ago, I think I would have said yes, absolutely, that would have been my first instinct would be to question. I very early on determined that God’s sovereignty was this course and I didn’t like it, but I didn’t deny God’s right to choose that.

I think that peace very much stemmed from that, the understanding that it was God’s right to choose this. I didn’t like it, but it was His right to do so.

Dave Wilson: The question would be how much did you struggle with that? Because Nick was going to get married. He’s engaged just months before he’s gone. As a pastor and as a theologian and a writer, yeah, we understand God’s in control, He’s sovereign, it’s His will, but did you push back? Did it feel at days where it was just dark, like, “I understand this, but it’s hard to experience it right now?”

Aileen Challies: I think you have to separate out the two. Because there were days that it was dark and it was days that it was incredibly hard, but it wasn’t because we didn’t trust God and His sovereignty in it. It was because of what had happened. They are two different things. If we didn’t trust the Lord, then that would be much harder.

Tim Challies: We had to realize things like, while we might have had an 80-year plan for Nick’s life or we might have imagined Nick having children and grandchildren, that was only ever fantasy. That was never reality. The reality was Nick would live 20 years and go to be with Jesus.

That’s God’s plan. God does no harm. God can only do what’s good and what’s best. So, that’s the best plan for Nick, and we just had to say, “That’s God’s right to do that, and why would we contest that?” There’s no reason to contest that. God’s good.

We had to readjust our understanding of just how this world works and how God’s sovereignty plays out. I don’t think we ever came to a point of anger with God or a point of accusation with God to say, “God, you’ve done something wrong.” We just had to say, “No, God’s done something good here.” He makes it clear in His word God will only do what’s good ultimately for good in the lives of His precious people. I’m just choosing to receive it, to say this is from God, I’m going to turn it out to others in love and service to them, and trust that God will bless that.

Ann Wilson: I think that’s the beauty of your book. It’s the beauty of the Psalms too, where we see the honesty and the openness, the dialogue of David to God of what that looked like, but in the end, he’s going back and saying, “But I will trust you.”

Tim Challies: Yeah, and we have to go through that. What you describe, that process of getting to the point of submission, I think that’s just often the difference between what you thought it was to follow Jesus and what Jesus is actually going to call you to do to follow Him.

It’s so easy to follow the Lord on the best of days, but then you go through these really hard things and you just have to work it out in your heart over time. If this is what it means to follow the Lord, can I do this with joy? Can I love and serve Him in this? Then you emerge from the far side truly loving Him more and serving Him better and submitting to Him.

Aileen Challies: I am very thankful that one day we will know the purpose in our suffering as well because that hope and knowing sometimes gives me a great deal of comfort.

Tim Challies: We wanted to distinguish very quickly between why the Lord did this and how God is going to use this. What we didn’t want to do is say, “Well, look, this good thing happened. This person came to faith after hearing Nick’s story, so that’s why God did it.”

That’s so simplistic. If God is truly as great and as beyond all we think as He truly is, then He must be up to a thousand things or ten thousand things. We can truly look for these evidences and say, “Look what God did, that is a wonderful thing.” But that’s not necessarily why He took Nick at this young age.

Let’s just leave that part as part of God’s mysterious providence. We’ll rejoice over every way God uses it and we’ll trust that in eternity, God will show us that illustration of turning over the tapestry. So you’re seeing not just all the knots and the mess, but you’re seeing the full work of art God has created.

Ann Wilson: Is that a bad thing to say to a grieving person? “Well, God’s going to use it.”

Tim Challies: Yeah, I think it can be very hurtful because in that moment, it’s cheapening the death of the person to say, “Well, God’s going to use it.” In that moment, they don’t want God to use it; they want their child back. They want their parent back, they want their sister back.

Someday you can get there, but in the moment, you just need to be with them. You just need to bring them some sweet, comforting scriptures. You need to read Psalm 23 with them and take a cue from Job’s friends, that they were at their best before they opened their mouth.

Dave Wilson: You know, we’re talking about this peace, and Paul says in Philippians it’s a peace that it’s not just a peace that we experience in the world, it’s beyond. I’m sitting here thinking, you’ve experienced it. I’m not saying it doesn’t flee at times, but how do you access that? How have you? I know sovereignty’s part of it, so some of it is I’ve got to understand truth, but is there another journey you’ve taken to access the peace of God?

Aileen Challies: Honestly, a lot of it came down to a foundation of theology. So, I had grown up as a Christian with a good, solid foundation of theology. So when I needed to, I could access those truths that I knew. That was very much important to give me that peace as we moved forward.

Dave Wilson: You know, before we continue, let me just say this to the listener. At FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. When you become a FamilyLife partner, you help make that happen.

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Can you talk a little bit about a theology of suffering? Because that’s foundational to walk through suffering. If your theology’s not a part that God will allow suffering in your life, you’re not going to be able to get through it. So what would you say is a theology of suffering?

Tim Challies: I think the building blocks for us, at least through this time of suffering, were God’s sovereignty and God’s goodness. So the sovereignty of God: God is King over this world, He rules this world, this is His world. There’s nothing that happens within this world that isn’t in some way His will, permitted by Him, decreed by Him, however you want to understand that.

Then the second pillar would be God’s goodness. So just understanding that God’s character is good. God only ever does what is good. God can do no evil, He can will no evil, He can want no evil, and so on.

If we have those building blocks in place, then we look at something sorrowful like the loss of a child and we say, “Okay, these things are true. My son died, but I know God is powerful, so He was in some way connected to this, and God is good, so He’s not bringing about bad things through this.”

So the theology of suffering built on those twin pillars is one that just calls me to bow the knee to God’s sovereignty and say, “This God who’s so much bigger and greater than I am has decreed this.” This God who’s so much better and kinder than I am has acted out of His goodness in this way.

What is my response going to be? I just have to bow the knee to God and say, “I may not see how You’re good in this, I may not see why You chose to express Your sovereignty in this way, but I’m just a little guy who some days fell over putting my pants on. That’s the kind of guy I am. Here’s this great big God who created this universe. Who’s more likely to have this one right?”

We are so thankful that we had gotten our theology in place before we went through this. We didn’t know at the time we were preparing ourselves to suffer in this way, but after you suffer a great loss, that is not the time to be asking a question like, “Is God really good or not?”

I’ve never really studied the scripture, but you want to have that in place before you go through it. Or, “Is God really sovereign over this world, or are He and Satan sort of locked in this battle and either one could come out ahead?” You want to know before you go into your times of suffering who’s truly sovereign in this world. So, just preparing yourself by studying the word, studying the doctrine of the Christian church, is so, so important.

Dave Wilson: I probably don’t have time to read it, but I think it’s chapter 30, “Angels Unaware.” I just found that so beautiful. Talk about that. I mean, maybe just tell the story. You’re at the graveside, and wasn’t that maybe the day they were going to be married?

Tim Challies: Yeah, we were doing well in our process through grief, but you do come to these dates and times that are unusually hard. We came to the day when Nick would have been married. It was very, very hard because I think the way I expressed it is that we had grieved what was, you know, what we had lost, but on that day, we were grieving what would never be.

That should have been the day of his wedding. So we went to a nearby florist and picked up a little boutonniere, just the kind that he would have worn at his wedding, just to take to the graveside. We went to the cemetery and it was just bare, empty, nobody around. I had written the speech I wanted to give at his wedding, and I wanted to read it, but I was just too sorrowful, too brokenhearted.

So we just stood at the grave and we were just so downcast that day, just weeping together. Just in our sorrow, somebody spoke my name and we turned around and there was this couple approaching from behind us. They came up and introduced themselves and told us that they read my website, they know who we are, and their son is buried just a few rows over. They just wanted to know if they could pray for us.

So on that absolute hardest of days, just in the moment, God had these people show up to minister to us. It was just so, so powerful and just this clear, clear indication that the Lord was with us.

Aileen Challies: Neither of us really remember what they prayed to be honest with you. I think we were both standing there just sort of slack-jawed that the Lord had given us this in that moment. I often distinguish between the concept of knowing something and feeling something. You can’t trust your feelings, but you know.

This was the first time I felt that the Lord was caring for me. I knew up until that point God was caring for me, but this was the first time I had actually felt the Lord was directly caring for me. It was such a blessing that day because Tim had been doing really well, but that day he was really, really struggling. Then you just feed off each other in those moments.

Tim Challies: We’ve often just remembered that day as just one of those days, one of those moments where God came through in an unusual way and just really blessed us. I’m so thankful to that couple. We’ve not seen them before, we’ve not seen them since. Neither one of us were in the habit of going to the cemetery on Saturday mornings.

I’ve often thought that in our grief, we sometimes long for a miracle. God just do something miraculous. But God did no miracle. He did something I think is even better: He just wove these lives together so we would be there and they would be there.

Ann Wilson: That was a miracle. To me, that is a miracle.

Tim Challies: Whatever it is, I mean, God just brought these circumstances together in such a way that nobody could deny God had done this. God had arranged this in just the perfect way. We might long for a voice to boom from the sky or something, but God sent His people to do His mission on His behalf. What a blessing that God sometimes enlists us to do that as well, that we can be the people there to comfort others in their sorrow.

Ann Wilson: I mean, it comforted you in such a powerful way that you were able to then read what you wrote to Nick, right?

Tim Challies: Yeah. You’re at a point where I can’t even read this and now, after that, it was like, oh, I think I can. Yeah, it just really strengthened us and helped us in that moment. We walked away from that experience just still sad but also just overwhelmed with joy because it was just such a clear indication of God’s love and God’s care for us.

It was a couple that’s in that—what do you call it, the sacred—sacred circle of the sorrowing. Yeah, that’s a phrase I ran across in an old, old book. So after Nick died, I went back in time in my reading. I’m a voracious reader, but I went back to the 1800s largely and found these authors then because the death of a child is pretty rare in our area, but in that area, it was extremely common. So there was such good writing about it. I found one author just speaking of the sacred circle of the sorrowing, these people who are bound together by the shared grief, the common loss of a child.

Ann Wilson: Can you read what you read that day? To Nick? Is that too personal?

Tim Challies: I could try.

I suppose every parent can attest that it’s not just a bride who dreams of her wedding day and it’s not just a groom who dreams of his, but their parents as well. So this is a day Aileen and I have dreamed about, a day we’ve prayed toward. This is a day of such joy, such anticipation, such celebration.

Nick, when you were tiny, no more than a few days old, I began to pray for a future spouse. I began to pray that God would set aside a wonderful, godly woman just for you, that He would first call her to Himself and that He would then lead her to you. I prayed that prayer when you were a tiny baby in my arms, when you were a little child toddling about the house, when you were a gawky teenager heading out the door to high school, and when you were a scared young man we were leaving behind at college.

It was not long after you arrived at Boyce that we began to hear the name Ryn. And after you’d dealt with some early rejection—and I’d say even well-deserved rejection for coming on just a little too fast and a little too strong—you caught your bearings, you regained your confidence, and you found your wife. And so this day is an answer to so many prayers.

And what a delight it has been to get to know your bride. Mom and I always knew you would pursue a woman of character, a woman who loved God and the people created in His image, and truly you outdid yourself. Ryn, we often wondered what it would be like to welcome another daughter into our family, but we couldn’t have imagined just how easy you would make it and what joy you would bring. We couldn’t have imagined how quickly you’d become one of the girls, our girls.

We’re humbled that you’d be willing to join our family and take on our name. We’re thankful that you’re willing to dedicate your life to our son even as he dedicates his life to you. You have gained yourself a husband who I can honestly say is one of the finest men I know. He is patient and kind, he is dutiful and honorable, he is slow to sin and quick to apologize. His giftings are many and his shortcomings are few.

I’m so excited that you two have chosen to build a life together. Nick, Solomon says, “A wise son brings joy to his father.” And I can truly say that among all the many joys God has granted me in this life, few have been greater than the joy of being your dad. Few pleasures have blessed me more than watching you grow in wisdom and in godliness and in favor with God and man.

I’m thrilled to see the man you have become and the man you are becoming. I’m thrilled to see the ways you’ve grown in distinctly Christian character. I’m thrilled to see you work so hard to get a strong start in ministry and to prepare yourself for a lifetime of service to others. I’m so very proud of you.

One of my highest honors is considering you not only a son but also a friend, not only a protege but also a mentor. “He who loves wisdom makes his father glad.” And truly, my boy, you make my heart overflow with gladness, with joy, with pride.

At this point, I think I’m supposed to offer some words of counsel, some words of wisdom born from nearly a quarter century of being married. So here it goes. Treat each day as its own little life. Each morning marks the creation of a new day and each evening marks its passing away. We cannot live in the past and we cannot live in the future. We can only ever live in the day God has created for us.

The key to living life well is to live each day well. So begin each day as a fresh opportunity to bring glory to God and close each day as if you will never see another. Let no sin linger from one day to the next, no bitterness put down roots in the night. Let no promise remain unfulfilled and withhold no good from the other when it’s in your power to do it.

If there are duties to be done, do them today. And if there are praises to be offered, offer them today. If there are sins to be confessed, confess them today. And if there are amends to be made, make them today. Yesterday is in the past and tomorrow is never guaranteed. There is only ever today.

And speaking of today, today is the day to celebrate you and to celebrate your marriage. Instead of closing with a traditional toast, I’d like to close with a biblical blessing with the words of God Himself. Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; He will surely do it. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

That was beautiful, and you ended up reading it at the graveside.

Dave Wilson: It was great to have Tim and Aileen Challies with us talking about their book, *Seasons of Sorrow: The Pain of Loss and the Comfort of God*.

Ann Wilson: It was just a good reminder, wasn’t it? Yeah, I mean, there is pain and there is comfort, and today’s conversation was about that, but their book is about that as well. You can get it at familylifetoday.com, just click on the link in the show notes.

Dave Wilson: Also, the conference for the blended ministry is called Blended and Blessed. It’s April 18th, 2026. Again, you can click on the link in the show notes to go to that or you can even watch it with a free at-home live stream.

Ann Wilson: And I don’t know if you have checked out the blended ministry that we have here at FamilyLife. If you’re in a blended family, if you’re in a second marriage, we have so many tools for you that can help you with parenting, with your marriage, with so many things.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.