FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

When parents say to me, "What did we do wrong?" I say, well, don't assume that the decisions your adult children are making are because you did wrong. God's first two children went wrong, and they had a perfect father.

Now, if you recognize that there are some ways you failed your children, fine. You go apologize to them.

Speaker 2

Dad bonds you to them. When their mother or father owns their sin and their mistakes and says, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2

All right, we've got Gary Chapman in here.

Speaker 1

Yay.

Speaker 2

It's always a good day. The guy that wrote the three love languages or the 18 love languages, or wait, wait, is it. How many is it, Gary? Five.

Speaker 1

Depends on who you talk to. I like five.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think five is the magic number.

Speaker 3

All I know is I think every time Gary comes in, we've talked to you so many times. Surely we're not gonna learn anything new.

Every time, I'm blown away by the gold Gary that you bring us. Dr. Gary Chapman is like a renowned author, a father, a grandfather, a husband, therapist, counselor.

He's the best. You are the best, and I'm not kidding about that. Every time, I'm inspired that we're with you.

Speaker 1

Thank you. I'm glad. Let's hope it happens today.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, today we're talking about adult children, your new life with adult children. And it is a new life, as we know. Talk about your kids. How old are they? Grandkids.

Speaker 1

Oh, now, listen. I can't believe you can't say their age. Oh, can't say their age.

Speaker 2

Well, maybe you can.

Speaker 1

I don't know.

Speaker 3

Of course we want you to.

Speaker 1

My daughter is 60. I can't believe that. Wow. We had her when we were 4 years old, and my son is 4 years younger than that. So they're grown.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But we do have grandchildren who are. Well, they're both out of college now. They're my daughter's children.

My son and his wife don't have children, but. Yeah, so we've got a small family, but we love and we have good connections.

And, you know, I wrote a book years ago called *Things I Wish I'd Known Before We Had Children.*

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And the first chapter is, I Wish I'd Known that no two children are alike.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Isn't that true?

Speaker 1

Oh. Because our daughter, at 8 years old, she said, I'm going to be a doctor when I grow up. And she never wavered. In high school, she took three years of Latin and four years of chemistry.

Speaker 2

She said that at eight?

Speaker 1

Yeah. In High school at eight years old. She said that my son all over the chart. He said about her, her name's Shelly. He said, Shelly's gonna miss out on a lot of life. She's just too focused.

Speaker 3

And you have to figure out how to parent both.

Speaker 1

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's true when they're young. It's also true when they're older.

Speaker 3

Carrie. I thought when they're older it would be so easy. And it's not.

Speaker 2

I thought we were done. And we are done as parents. We'll talk about that. But it's a different type of stress.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2

In some ways a lot worse. Because when they're kids, I mean babies, you're like, I gotta protect them. And it' and then it gets older and you're like, it's harder.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Because you have no control. That's what it is. There's no control. But we'll talk about that.

But I'm so excited about this. Cause the last time you were in Gary, we were having lunch and we were talking about your kids and you were talking about some of the adventures your son has been on.

And we were talking about parenting adult children. And you were telling us a story of how your son was single and he wasn't married yet.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Can you tell that story? Because it's pretty remarkable.

Speaker 2

We've told many people that story. We want to make sure we got the details.

Speaker 3

We probably have told it totally wrong. So it's probably good that Gary tell it.

Speaker 1

He was 34 until he got married. Before he got married.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But he had had three long term dating relationships. I mean three years each. And each of the three girls broke up with him. And they all said the same thing. Derek, we can't live your lifestyle because.

Speaker 3

He'S spontaneous and he's always been that. You said he was like that when he was little.

Speaker 1

Always, yeah. So if he told her, "I'll be over at 5:30, we'll go to dinner." But if he met somebody, he would get involved in helping them and all and show up over there at 7:30 and wonder, "Why would you be upset? I had a chance to help somebody." So we understood the girls, we liked them all, understood why they broke up with him, right?

Yeah. So he said to me, he was in Prague at the time doing mission work in the Czech Republic. He said, "Dan, I really do want to get married." But he said, "I can't just stop doing what God's called me to do and go try to find a wife. I'm just going to go back to Prague, and if God wants me to get married, he'll bring me a wife."

I said, "Derek, I think that's a good idea."

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Well, he goes back to Prague, and I don't know, nine months or so later, he heard about a conference in Austin, Texas, for kind of Christian, you know, out of the box kind of Christians, which is what he is, you know, reaching people I would never reach. And so he decided he was going to go to that conference. So he flew and went to the conference. There he met a girl named Amy McDonnell, and he said he was attracted to her, and they had some conversations. But then when it was over, she left.

He realized, I didn't get her phone number. I didn't get an email address. I didn't get anything. And so I just said to God, well, he said, I went online and tried to find her, and I couldn't find her. He said, all I knew was she lived in Cincinnati, Ohio, and she had two roommates. So I went on, I said to God, lord, I'd like to get to know her. And I don't know what to do. And he said, God said to me, go buy her a gift. Go to Cincinnati, and I'll take care of it.

So he goes out and buys her a gift, a scarf. Has it gift wrapped. Drives in a rental car from Austin, Texas, to Cincinnati, Ohio. He said, dad, I'm sitting at a traffic light, and I say, okay, God, I'm here. And he said, God said, just follow the car in front of you. I looked. It was a girl. So I followed her. Finally, she got out, and I got out and I said, excuse me, do you know Amy McDonald? And she said, yes, she's my roommate.

He said, well, I'm Derek Chapman. I met her this weekend at a conference in Austin, Texas. And she said, yeah, she mentioned you. He said, well, I know she's working today, and I don't have time to stay until tonight because I have to catch a plane in North Carolina tomorrow to go back to Prague. But if you'd be so kind as to give her this gift, tell her I came by and if you'd give me her email address, I'd like to email her. So she did.

They start emailing, and nine months later, she says to her two roommates, I don't know where this is going. I don't know what God is doing, but I've got to go to Prague. She quit her job, and with two suitcases, she moved to Prague. She's just like Derek, that's exactly right. And so she started helping them in the ministry, work and all. And a year later, they get married.

Speaker 3

Wow. It is just like I remember. It is as good the second time.

I mean, for a parent who's worrying and fretting and praying for their kids that aren't married. And I don't know what you guys are like, but I know as a woman, sometimes I think, oh, God, do you want me to take control of the situation?

Let me introduce some people. You know, I start kind of maneuvering the players and the pieces.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'll give you another story with Derek right on that line.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

This is when he was still single. And he would be on the weekend. He was in Prague for four years doing mission work. But sometimes on the weekend, on Saturdays, he'd go to another country or another city just with his guitar and go to the center of the city and start playing his guitar.

And he said, all the young people come out and he said, most of them can speak English. And he says, I play some secular songs and then I play some Christian songs. And then I start talking to them and all that.

And he was at home one time visiting. And my wife said to him, "Derek, I'm concerned about you, son. You go out there by yourself in these other countries or other cities, no one knows where you are. And if something happened to you, we wouldn't even know about it."

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

He said, mom, what is the worst thing that could happen to me? I could die and go to heaven a few years before you do. What is so bad about that, Mom? And that's when my wife said. I released him and said, okay, God, he is yours.

Speaker 2

Really.

Speaker 3

And so you guys don't worry about him?

Speaker 1

No, we don't worry about him.

Speaker 2

Wasn't there a story of a guy on a bridge?

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was in Paris that night. And it was late at night, about 10 o'clock, I think. He said, "I was just taking a walk and God told me." And that's the way he talks. God told me. I usually say I felt impressed of God. He says, "God told me." And I think he's right.

He said, "God told me, go out on that bridge." And he said, "I looked out there and I said, well, God, it's dark and there's nobody out there." And he said, "God said, go out on the bridge." So he said, "I went out on the bridge and about halfway across I saw a man ready to jump off the bridge into the river." Our eyes caught, and I started talking to him. But it was obvious he didn't understand English, and I couldn't speak French.

So he said, "I did shout up a silent prayer. God, what do I do?" And immediately I knew. So he said, "I pulled out my art paper." He's an artist. He pulled out his art paper, and he said, "I just drew a cross, and there was a little bit of light on a little lamp stand, and I held it up." And when he saw the cross, he started crying.

He got up and walked to me, and I embraced him, and we both cried. And I just walked him off the bridge, and I took him to YWAM (Youth With a Mission). I knew they would speak French. They could speak French. I knew they'd help him. And he said I had to leave the next morning early. So I don't know what happened to him. But I know that that night I did my part. You know, it's amazing. What?

Speaker 2

God is crying, Jerry.

Speaker 1

That's why I told him, you need to write a book called on the Road with God and just tell your stories.

Speaker 3

You know, if he's ever back in town, you guys should come and be with us.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'd love to hear.

Speaker 3

I'm really glad. I mean it, like I would, because this man is an evangelist. He is an evangelist.

So now every parent is thinking, what did you guys do to get an evangelist and a doctor in your family?

My son's still in the basement, you know, living with us.

Speaker 1

That's why we have to let our children, our adult children, be who they are.

Speaker 2

Explain that. What do you mean? Because you even said your wife had to release him.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

How do we release?

Speaker 1

Well, you know, I think the releasing part is we have to recognize that there are children. Well, we have to do with our children what God does with his children. We can choose. Choose you this day whom you will serve. And so we have to give our children the same freedom that God gives us to make their own choices.

And I think vocationally that's true. I remember a recent graduate of medical school who happened to be in our college ministry at our church. When he finished medical school, he said to me, Dr. Chapman, I'm prostrated. He said, I never wanted to be a doctor. He said, my father forced me to be a doctor. And he said, I'm not going to do residency because I don't want to practice medicine. I'm going back to my home and just try to make sense out of where do I go from here?

And I thought, how tragic. I understood his father's reasoning; he wants his son to be something important, to help people, you know, but he pushed him into a vocation, as it were, that was not on his heart and not what he wanted to do.

So again, yeah, I know we all want our children to succeed financially and to make an impact on the world, but we have to let them choose how they're going to do that.

Speaker 3

I remember, I think that I was probably in my 30s when I heard Chuck Swindoll teach on the scripture of "raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he won't depart from it." He talked about "in the way he should go" being from a Hebrew term meaning "according to their bent," according to the way God has wired them. That changed my whole perspective.

I know that my dad, when he raised the four of us, had this dream that we would all become college coaches. However, for some of us, that path just wasn't in us, but he pushed us that way. So when I read that and heard Chuck Swindoll teaching, it was the first time I started looking into who my kids were and their bent. And they're so different.

Speaker 1

They are so different.

Speaker 3

And so that means we treat them different, we train them different, we. We pour into their lives in a different way.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And we seek to walk with them. Obviously, if we have a good relationship, we can walk with them through all of that.

You know, I think one of the biggest things that I've encountered the last five or six years is parents whose child comes home and shares with them something very devastating in terms of saying, you know, I'm homosexual and I've got a partner and we're going to get married.

And the parents are in my office weeping and often saying, what did we do wrong? You know, or they make other decisions that are just devastating to the parent.

And I empathize with that. I mean, I can understand, you know.

Speaker 3

Kids leaving their faith or they leave.

Speaker 1

The faith, you know, in the same. I know you all are Christians and all of that, but I've been studying and thinking, and I'm a Hindu or something else, or I'm a non, you know.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 1

And again, it's devastating. And when we weep, and we should weep, okay, it's okay to weep. Nothing wrong with crying. But at the same time, we have to recognize, again, as I said earlier, we have to give them the same freedom God gives us—the freedom to make a decision to follow God or not to follow God. And then we have to let them also suffer the consequences of what they do. And that doesn't make us happy, you know, so hard.

I remember a man that called me one Saturday night, and he said, "Doc Chapman, my son just got arrested for driving under the influence, and he's in jail. I want to go down and get him out, but I want you to go with me." I said to him, "Well, I can go with you, but I would give you a bit of advice. I would suggest you let him stay in jail tonight and not go down. Then tomorrow we can go down and talk to him and decide what to do. Let him suffer a little the consequences of what he's done," which is exactly what God does.

So we love, but sometimes we have the idea of what a loving parent would do, but that's not always the best thing that we should do. We should always love them. The question is, what is best for the child?

Speaker 3

Yeah. Hey, sorry for the quick interruption.

Speaker 2

Are you really sorry, though?

Speaker 3

I am. But let me just say this. We know life is full of challenges, and families today need biblical truth more than ever.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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All right, let's get back to our conversation. As you know, one of the hardest things for parents of adult kids is to let them go.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

To not micromanage anymore. To be too involved. What is going on in a parent's mind that does do that? That is too involved. Micromanaging, calling all the time. I mean, is there something that's. Why are they doing that?

Speaker 1

Well, I think sometimes they really want to help. Yeah. They have a positive attitude and want to do whatever they can to help the child. And, like, financially, sometimes they are in a much better position than their children, so they want to help them by giving them money or buying them things that they couldn't afford and that sort of thing. I'm not saying they shouldn't do that, but we can micromanage in terms of telling them what to do.

Now, this is what you need to do: you need to get this application in today if you want this job. Well, we can't demand things of our adult children and expect to have a good relationship. You know, we can say, "If you want my opinion, I think the sooner you get that application in, the better. The more likely you are to get an interview." But obviously, you know, it's your choice.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And we just recognize it's your choice. We can. And if they ask for advice, fine, give them advice.

But then also have the attitude, whether you say it or not, that it's your choice. You know, I mean, I don't want to tell you you've got to do something.

They respect that, and you have a relationship with them.

Speaker 3

You talk about sometimes we've become too permissive, letting our kids kind of do anything or everything. What's the harm in that?

Speaker 1

Well, I think obviously if they're still living in our home in high school, there's still children, young children, then we can have some consequences to those things.

Speaker 3

So you're saying height. What about college? When does that change? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Well, when they go to college is obviously a transition point.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Because now they're away from you more hours of every day than they are with you. Unless they are living at home while they go to college.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Which is a more. Which is a common thing today also.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And if they're living at home, then I think we have to have a family conference and sit down and talk together as a family. What will this look like now? Because you're taking a step now toward adulthood and you're going to be in school, you're going to be hearing lots of things there that you would not hear from us. And la da da, da da. We're happy for you to do this. We're happy for you to stay at home during this time. But let's talk about how we're going to work this, you know.

If you were living somewhere else, then you'd have to be paying rent. We're not going to say while you're in college you have to pay rent. But if this happens after college and you got a job, then we expect you to pay rent. We do want you to realize that we have to have some guidelines here in terms of what time you're going to be in. If you're going to be out longer, let us know what's going on, because I don't want to stay awake half a night wondering where you are.

We also need to establish some guidelines in terms of your responsibilities. You can decide what that would be—keep the ants out of your room and the lizards and whatever, whatever. If you have that kind of conversation, then everybody knows what it's going to be like, and you can process life much easier.

But if you don't talk about it, they have one idea, you have another idea. When they violate what you had in your mind, then you get frustrated with them. All that communication with that child while they're in college, if they're living at home, is exceedingly important.

Speaker 3

Do you remember our kids coming home from college?

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3

In the summers.

Speaker 2

Go ahead, tell.

Speaker 1

What are you thinking?

Speaker 3

Well, it's just that you're used to them when they were living there full time as high schoolers. You kind of know what's going on, and you have a little bit of a say. But they've been used to being at college on their own.

So I remember, and I would say to moms, it takes about three weeks to readjust to having these kids back in the house. We would have to have that conversation: "Guys, I know you've been on your own. You haven't had to be home at a certain time, but can you just let us know what's going on? Like, when you're gonna be in at night?"

Cause the same thing, like, I can't sleep till I know that you're okay. And I know you don't need me to check in on you, but for my sake, just for my peace of mind, can you do that?

Speaker 2

I slept fine, Gary.

Speaker 1

He totally did.

Speaker 2

No problem. She's up. They're not home yet. I'm like, yeah, they're adults.

Speaker 3

I know. Maybe it's harder for moms. I'm not sure, but even we had. Did you have anybody come back after college?

Speaker 1

Yes. Not in our house. No. Because our daughter went on all of that.

Speaker 2

She left when she's eight years old.

Speaker 1

She knew. And my son took six years in undergrad because he majored in philosophy, Also majored in world religions and majored in English. And then he did a master's in expressive therapy. Really? Dance and art and music as therapy.

Speaker 3

Okay, so as a mom and dad, are you guys thinking what's happening?

Speaker 1

Well, by this time, we recognize this is just who he is. This is just who he is. You know?

Speaker 3

So you're not thinking, he's broken, he's messed up, I need to change him or fix him.

Speaker 1

No, no.

Speaker 3

You're thinking he's discovering, too who he is.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely. And he worked in that field for maybe three months.

And he came home and he said, "Dad, you know, in a way, I feel like I'm helping people with this therapy. But I'm beginning to realize if you don't get people to Jesus, you haven't really helped them. So maybe I should go to seminary."

Which blew our minds because we had never, ever, ever considered that. And he never talked about going into ministry of any kind.

Speaker 3

Did he go to seminary?

Speaker 1

He did, yeah. And he went to Golden Gate Seminary in San Francisco and lived in the old Haight Ashbury district in a house church the whole three years he was there and worked with kids on the street.

Speaker 3

He probably loved that.

Speaker 1

He did. He loved it. I went out there and spent a week with him once. I said, I'm just going to walk with you this week, wherever you go, classes or wherever, just be with you.

He said, well, dad, you can do that, but you got to dress down. So I dressed down.

Speaker 3

You did.

Speaker 1

And he came in and he said, well, dad, that's pretty dressed down, but why don't you put on this toboggan? So I did. I walked the streets where he lived. I walked five blocks. I was offered drugs four times. Really, it's just the way it was.

And if the kids came to. I say kids, sometimes they were in their 20s and 30s, just not living on the streets. If they came to Christ, they had a discipleship center in the Redwood Forest where they could stay for a year or two years, get off drugs, get cleaned up, and then plugged back into society. So that was his ministry there.

When he was in college, he worked with street people. In fact, when he got ready to leave college the last time, he contacted about 20 street people, and he said, I'm going to be moving, and I got some stuff here I'm going to give away. You guys come by, you can have whatever you want.

You know, I would never even think about anything like that, you know, again, recognizing our children are unique, and particularly if they're following God, let them follow God, you know, and do what they feel like God wants them to do.

Speaker 3

But when you share that about Derek, it reminds me of you as a young man, because your ministry, it wasn't necessarily to street people. But didn't you have a ministry of people that were hurting when you were younger and starting ministry?

Speaker 2

And it was cross culture, right?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. I spent a summer my first year after I went to Moody Bible Institute right out of high school, and the first summer I worked at a primarily totally black camp for high school students in Tennessee. I had some absolutely incredible experiences. I was the only white counselor in the whole thing, and I had some just wonderful experiences and things I've never forgotten.

Again, it was a learning experience for me. I grew up in the South, and I grew up with segregation, you know, but I just really sensed that God was leading me there. Since then, I have always had a totally different perspective on people who are not like me in different ways, you know, in other cultures.

So, yeah, God has a way of placing us wherever we are, at whatever point in our journey, to encounter different things that are going to impact us for the rest of our lives.

Speaker 2

I mean, parents are always, you know, looking for the formula. Christian parents, like, what do I do to, you know, so my adult child is walking with Jesus?

There is no formula. But do you guys feel like there were things you did that you're like, okay, God used that in a good way?

Speaker 1

Well, you know, when they were children, of course, we had a devotional time every night with our children from the very beginning. One of us would go to the bedside with them every night and pray with them in bed. Eventually, as they got older, they started praying as well.

Every morning, I would read a scripture verse around the table for breakfast. Now, my wife was not at the table; she was busy fixing a hot breakfast. She made a commitment to God when they first started school: as long as they were in school, she would cook a hot breakfast. And she's not a morning person.

Speaker 3

I'm not either.

Speaker 1

And so she didn't come to the table. She just fixed the breakfast and went back and laid down. But, yeah, they had that experience all growing up. So they were in the church and they were involved in the youth ministry and all of that.

So they had the background, but they're still children that grow up in that kind of setting. Oh, yeah. And when they get to be adults, they make a different choice.

And that's where I think parents are often asking themselves, or they hear me say what I'm saying, and they say, "Well, we never did that for our kids. I wish we'd have done that for our kids, you know, would it have made a difference?" You know, well, we can't undo the past.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And I sometimes say, when parents say to me, "What did we do wrong?" I said, well, don't assume that the decisions your adult children are making are because you did wrong. I said, remember, God's first two children went wrong, and he had a perfect father. So don't take all the blame.

Now, if you recognize that there are some ways you failed your children, and now they're adults, fine. You go apologize to them. I've been thinking about us when we were young, and I realized that there are some ways that I failed you. I just want to apologize to you. I know I can't undo it, but I want to apologize for whatever it was, you know, and that.

Speaker 3

Means a lot to the kids. My dad did that to me when he was 90 years old and I think I was 60. And I sat there and he said, "Anne, I'm really sorry that I just wasn't there for you. And I did a lot of things that now I regret."

And I just cried. And it meant so much. I didn't need it per se. I knew who I was in Christ, and God had done so much, but it still meant so much that he would humble himself to say that.

And I mean, I gave him total grace, like, "Oh, Dad, you are amazing, you know?"

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And he was a guy, you know, my father in law. And I didn't really have a dad growing up, so he became my dad and he was my high school coach. So I knew him before, but he was not a apologizing type guy.

Speaker 1

Oh, no.

Speaker 3

He thought it was weak.

Speaker 2

Strong leader. You're weak if you do that. So he really tenders. His heart got tender later, but I remember, but I don't remember the details when. When we wrote a book called no Perfect Parents, we did a Zoom interview with you.

Speaker 3

That's right.

Speaker 2

And you told some story about apologizing to your son Derek. Am I right?

Speaker 3

It was said you guys got in your biggest fight.

Speaker 1

That's when I lost my temper with him and yelled and screamed at him.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's when I first realized, because he was yelling and screaming at me and I asked myself, where did he learn that? And I realized I yelled and screamed at him.

So I remember the one night when we got into it. I don't remember what the topic was, but I was yelling and screaming at him. He was yelling and screaming at me. And in the middle of that argument, he walked out of his room. We were in his room. He walked out of his room, across the living room, out the front door, and slammed the door. When the door slammed, I started crying and I said, oh, God, how could I yell at the son I love? I sat down on the couch, just weeping and talking to God and apologizing to God.

Finally, he walked back in. He was 13 or 14. I said, "Derek, son, could you come in here a minute?" So he did, and he sat down. I apologized to him. I don't remember all that I said, but I know I said, a father should never talk to a son the way I talked to you. I know I said some hateful things, and that's not the way I feel about you. I love you very much, but I lost my temper, and I yelled at you. I said, I'm asking you to forgive me for that.

He said, when I was walking up the street, I asked God to forgive me because I should not have been yelling at you. He said, I'm going to ask you to forgive me. So we hugged each other and we cried.

After we got through crying, I said, "Derek, why don't we try something? Why don't we try and learn how to talk our way through anger rather than yelling our way? The next time you feel angry at me, what if you just say, 'Dad, I'm angry. Can we talk?' And I'll sit down and listen to you. The next time I feel angry with you, I'll say, 'Derek, I'm angry. Can we talk?' And I'll sit down and you listen to me, and let's learn to talk our way through it."

That was the turning point in both of us handling anger. So that's why I sometimes say it was one of the saddest nights of my life and one of the happiest nights of my life when I realized he knew how to apologize to God and he knew how to apologize to me, because I knew someday he'd be married and he would need to apologize to his wife.

Speaker 3

But, Gary, some people are listening to that, and they think we're yelling all the time.

Like, that's just part of our home that we're yelling, even with adult kids.

Like, it's just volatile. It's big. It's loud.

And then there may or may not be resolution.

How can we change that if that's just been a pattern in our family?

Speaker 1

I think, first of all, we have to recognize it as a problem rather than just accepting it. Now, I'm not talking about just loud talking. I mean, loud talking is okay; maybe you're yelling out of anger. Well, that's what we're talking about here. And I think to recognize that this is not healthy. It's not going to help us in any way.

And so I think somebody has to take the initiative. It can be an adult child who's further along with God than their parents are, who comes back and says, you know, I just want to apologize for all the times I've yelled at you. And the parent can say the same thing to the adult child and then consequently say, you know, I know I need to learn how to do this in a better way.

So what can we do? You know, I wrote a book on anger, and in the back of it, I suggest that every family put on a three by five card on the refrigerator that has these words: "I'm feeling angry right now. But don't worry, I'm not going to attack you, but I do need your help. Is this a good time to talk?"

And so the whole family, when you're angry at anyone in the family, you go get that card and you stand in front of them and you read it to them. "I'm feeling angry right now." Imagine your teenage son saying, "I'm feeling angry right now, Dad, but I'm not going to attack you." It's just a way of teaching the whole family how to handle anger in a positive way.

And I've had people say, "Dr. Chapman, I was raised on that card. I didn't know where my parents got it, but I was raised on that card."

Speaker 3

That's so helpful for a marriage, too. For your adult kids, it's really good.

Speaker 2

Yeah. But I mean, even what you did with your son and what Derek did is, you know, you are humble.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And I think as parents, sometimes we're not humble. We're prideful. We think we're right. They should have. Yeah, we didn't do anything wrong. And to own up to where you were, I remember I've shared this here before, but my middle son and youngest son had three sons.

They were probably, what, in their mid-20s, early 20s somewhere. We were playing golf and we had lunch after, and they looked at each other and I thought, oh, something's coming. They've talked and they basically said, "Dad, we wanted to say something to you. We felt like growing up, you were more intimate with the congregation than you were with us."

And I said, "You know, what do you mean?" They said, "Well, you know, we'd be sitting there and you'd be preaching on Sunday and thousands of people sitting around us, and you'll tell some vulnerable, transparent, honest story about a struggle or something. And we look at each other. Like. He ever told you that? No. But you're telling thousands of people instead of us."

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And I remember in that moment when they said that, my first thought was, they're right. And there was nothing in me going, I'm going to defend myself. What do you mean? I didn't. I was like, oh, my gosh, I've done that.

And so it was one of those moments, like, sort of with you. I was like, I'm sorry. You're right, I did that. I didn't try to even explain why. I just said, I am sorry.

And I remember saying, I'm not dead. You're not dead.

Speaker 1

Maybe we can change this whole thing.

Speaker 2

It's like, hopefully I'll do better going forward. But I think a lot of kids, that bonds you to them when their mother or father owns their sin and their mistakes and says, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely.

And with adult children, where you realize you have failed, that can be the starting point of a different kind of relationship when you apologize to them for that.

Because by nature, in our minds, we think they're the main problem, the kids the main problem, you know?

But Jesus said, you start with the plank in your own eye.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

It doesn't mean that they're okay, but you start with your own. But if you take the initiative to apologize for your failures, they're going to walk away thinking, man, never heard that before. You know, that humble heart.

Chances are they will forgive you, but at least they're going to walk away with that memory in their mind of dad, apologize, mom, apologize. You know, so it can often be the door open, the doorway to a better relationship in the future.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and this kind of goes off topic a little bit, but.

Speaker 2

No, you can't go off topic.

Speaker 3

I'm just thinking of adult kids, and I know several that are living at home, and they could be in their 30s or 40s, but really struggling with mental health issues or even suicidal ideation. And so now you've got the parents not knowing what to do. And it used to be we're saying, tough love, tough love. You can't be in this house unless you have a job, et cetera. Now it feels like we're swinging back the other way a little bit. Any help? I just know a lot of parents that they're seeking Jesus. They're fasting, they're praying for these kids that are struggling. And I think the suicidal ideation, the anxiety, the depression, the numbers are up so much. We as parents feel so helpless and not knowing what to do and how to help.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I do deal with that whole issue in this book on your adult children, because that is very true in today's world. And I think what we want to do is, again, keep conversation going in the home rather than just going on with no Conversation, just sustaining life. But to say, what can we do that will get you on a better track? And if it's depression or suicidal thoughts or all of that, then let's find a counselor, a Christian counselor that would be helpful for you. I know you don't have the money to pay for it, but we're willing to pay for it because I know you want to get through this and we want to help you get through this. So what we want to do is try to address whatever the problem is. If they're having trouble finding a job, then let's talk about, you know, when you think of the wildest thing, what would you think about doing? You know, and kind of get their ideas, and then maybe we can help them get enrolled in a local technical school that will teach some skills along the lines of what they have interest in. But rather than just day after day, week after week, year after year, just sitting there with the problem, what we want to do is try to help them find some steps that will. There's no quick fix to it, but let's get them on a track that's going to help them end up at a different place six months or a year from now.

Speaker 3

It's such a hard dilemma because the child is feeling like a failure. They think that they are a failure from their parents view. The parents feel like failures. What did we do to create this? And so it's this vibe that they're just like, struggling. And I've seen that happen more and more. But you're saying, open the door to conversation. And it has to be one of love and not disappointment. Like, you're such a loser. What are you still doing in our house? You know? And kids can feel that. We may not say it, but they can feel. And it's hard for parents, like, do you fake it?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3

You do fake it. You're saying you do. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

But I think this is also where the five Love language concept helps an adult child.

Speaker 2

Do you know anything about that? Five Love languages.

Speaker 1

We love our children and we love them when they're little. We love them when they're big. But the question is, do they feel loved? And an adult child that you're struggling with, if they don't feel loved by you, then they're not open to hear what you have to say. That's where understanding that concept, in fact, I've had it work the other way around where adult children discover the five love languages and then look back and realize they never felt love growing up, but they look back and Realize, oh, they did love me. They were just speaking the wrong language.

Speaker 2

Oh, that's beautiful.

Speaker 3

The first time I read your book, I thought that because I would say to my siblings, I feel like mom and dad didn't love us. And my brother would say, are you kidding? They did everything for us. Mom got up and made us meals. They took us to all these things. And I would say, but they never told us. They never told us and they never hugged us. And I realized when I read it, like, oh, I felt like the whiner. But what their love language was meeting my brother's love language. And for me it was like, just tell me, tell me that you love me. But that had all the. I think so many people come to that revelation, like, oh, when they read.

Speaker 1

Your book, I was speaking in Angola prison. All the men in there were in there for life.

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 1

And I said, I want to try to explain to you why you either felt love growing up or you did not feel loved growing up. I shared the love languages in that context. Now, when the Q and A time came, a young man stood up and said, I judge him to be about 30. I want to thank you for coming because for the first time in my life, I finally understand that my mother loves me. He said, you gave those love languages. And I knew my love language is physical touch. But my mother never hugged me. The only hug I ever remember getting from my mother was the day I left for prison. But you gave those other languages. And I realized my mother spoke acts of service. She was a single mom, she had two jobs. She kept food on the table, she washed my clothes, and he rattled off all this stuff. And by this time he was just crying and he said, mama loves me, Mama loves me, Mama loves me. And I started crying. But he realized when he understood that there are different languages, he now is giving her emotional credit for it. And it could be if he saw her, if she came for a visit and he shared that with her, it could have been the rebirth of their relationship.

Speaker 3

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2

Probably was.

Speaker 3

And even that kind of takes us into becoming in laws. Is there anything we can do to welcome that son or daughter in law into our family that would be helpful?

Speaker 1

Obviously, depends on where they live. For example. Yeah, if they. If they're going to be living half a world away or across the country.

Speaker 3

In Prague, like your daughter in law.

Speaker 1

And son, it's a different kind of relationship. It's going to have to be online kind of things, conversations with them and that sort of thing. If they're Living down the street, you can have dinner with them once a week or once a month or go shopping with them or all those kind of things. So a lot depends on geographically, where we are with our adult children and our in laws. But I think what we do want to do is to try to build a positive relationship and also not insert ourselves too much in terms of trying to tell them what they should be doing or what they should not be doing. So I think that's the key balance between those two.

Speaker 3

If we have an issue going on with. Let's say you have a daughter and the son in law and you want to say something to them. This is kind of a tricky question. Would you go just to your daughter or would you go to both of them?

Speaker 1

I think I would talk to her first. Because you have a lifelong relationship with her.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

You have a shorter relationship with her husband. So I think asking her advice on. Here's the situation. How do you think what would be the best way to handle this?

Speaker 3

So you're asking her, your daughter.

Speaker 1

Yeah. You're asking her advice on how would be the best way to handle this.

Speaker 3

That's wise.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

That's really good.

Speaker 2

Unbelievable. Thank you. I don't know what else you could do. It's all in here.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

We're gonna put a link to your book in our show notes so people can buy it. But this is one of the biggest issues that we as parents are dealing with adult children. It's hard.

Speaker 3

We don't know.

Speaker 2

It's wonderful. It's incredible. But it's the navigating that nobody's telling us how to do it. That's why this is so helpful to help us navigate that. I don't know if we've done it well.

Speaker 3

No, there's some things that I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And it's new and so to have a book you New life with adult Children and you co wrote this with Ross Campbell. He's great too. And so I think this book can really help you get some handles on how to be doing this and what to do, but also what not to do or what not to say.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Gary.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 3

Always great to be with you.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Always enjoy being with you all.

Speaker 3

Hey, thanks for watching and if you like this episode, you better like it. Just hit that like button and we'd.

Speaker 2

Like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe. I can't say the words subscribe. Hit the subscribe. Button. I don't think I can say this word like.

Speaker 3

And subscribe.

Speaker 2

Look at that. You say it so easy. Subscribe. There it goes.