FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

The fact that we get to spend time with God after we die is incredible. It's part of the gospel. Jesus talked about the gospel being the kingdom that is now available to you. It's now open for business. It's here. That's the good news.

You can step into this way of life now, and there's a cost to it. But here's what I was telling these guys: the cost of not doing it is higher. All right.

Speaker 2

Are you excited? We got Bran Hanson back in the studio.

Speaker 3

It is always a good day when Brandt is here.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

You guys, we feel that way about you, Brant.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 2

And we do not say that about everybody.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 2

I hope they're not listening right now, but all the rest of you are just, you know, you're not at the level Bran Hansen is. You know, we can sing song. We could.

Speaker 1

We can.

Speaker 2

We could put this interview on pause and sing songs from the 60s, 70s, 80s, for probably an hour, two hours. We did that one time at your place.

Speaker 3

We did it on the cruise ship, too.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah, that's right. Nobody on the cruise knows. We went to their.

Speaker 3

And your wife, Carolyn, man, she knows the parts.

Speaker 1

She can.

Speaker 3

Every part.

Speaker 1

We enjoy doing that. I learned piano recently, but we'll just sit there and do songs all the time.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3

This is a new thing. Yeah, that's fun.

Speaker 1

Of course, it's. I'm good enough that we can have a good time together as a married couple. Like when you're empty nesters, you can start learning other instruments.

Speaker 3

I don't. You do know piano I can get.

Speaker 2

Away with, but I need to learn.

Speaker 3

Have you taken lessons?

Speaker 1

Two. They were really good. They were good lessons.

Speaker 3

They were good.

Speaker 1

But then what happens is you give up. And then you're like, I just want to play it. Like I play guitar. You get a chord chart and then you go from there.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah, I can do that.

Speaker 1

You.

Speaker 3

That's how you play with chords?

Speaker 2

I play chord chart on the piano, but I don't really know what I'm doing. I need the left hand anyway. Why are we talking about this?

Speaker 3

Because it's just an interesting person. So as we were having lunch today, Brant, you were talking to us about how you were invited to speak to a men's breakfast.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I am really amped about this.

Speaker 3

The men's breakfast.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 2

Breakfast, dinner, lunch.

Speaker 1

Always amped. But no, they asked me to come speak at a businessman's breakfast.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 1

And they asked me to share the gospel. And they said, we've got a lot of guys who are Professionals. But they'll bring friends to this thing once a year. This was in New Jersey. And they wondered if I'd come up and speak. I'm like, well, sure.

Speaker 3

So it's like an outreach they do once a year to invite a lot of people to.

Speaker 2

That's cbmc, yes. Yeah. Cbmc.

Speaker 1

Christian Businessman.

Speaker 3

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1

And it was. It was really nice of them to ask. My stress was, I'm not sure I'll do it right. Because, honestly, when we talk about the gospel, a lot of times people have their own idea about what that is. And I don't know that we always understand how big it is and how wonderful it is.

And the other thing is, you can ask people to say, pray a prayer, and then, hey, you get to go to heaven when you die. But that's not what I wanted to talk about because I think we're missing out on something, and that is connecting to Jesus as our teacher. If it's just about I go to heaven when I die, I'm missing out on something.

Speaker 3

On that relationship piece.

Speaker 1

Yes. Which I'm convinced is. Is a better way to live. We don't talk about that. So I was kind of wondering. I was like, is it okay if I do it this way? They're like, okay, sure.

Speaker 3

So how did you start it? Like, what did it sound like to start?

Speaker 1

I told him, this is the best deal you're ever gonna hear. And it's like a pearl merchant recognizing something so great that you're willing to cash it all in for this.

I said, I think you don't have to do anything. Like, God gives you free will. Like, you can decide. You can walk away. People walked away from Jesus.

Speaker 3

So there's no pressure.

Speaker 1

No pressure at all. There was no emotional appeal. There's no. There was no fog lights or whatever. There was no lasers.

But it was just me laying out, here's why the way of Jesus is actually better than not the way. And I think this is really important for people to communicate, because it is, and you just have to lay out why.

Speaker 3

So, Bran, as you're talking about this, and I can't wait to hear where you're going, but I'm just thinking of how we talk to our kids about this.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

It's not like, hey, just pray this prayer. You're saying. No, it's way better than that.

Speaker 1

It's way better. So the fact that we get to spend after we die with God is incredible. It's part of the gospel. Jesus talked about the gospel being the kingdom is now. Available to you. It's now open for business. It's here. That's the good news.

You can step into this way of life now, and there's a cost to it. But here's what I was telling these guys. The cost of not doing it is higher. So, yeah, there's a cost, but the cost of not doing it is higher.

And I just went down the list.

Speaker 3

Tell us the list.

Speaker 1

Well, let's talk about fear of death. I'm not afraid of death because of who Jesus is and my following him and learning his ways. Like, I don't have to deal with that. Can you imagine living a life where you're not afraid?

Speaker 3

I mean, I'm sitting there. You guys know this. Cause Dave, you did the same thing with 500 men. Is that a thing that we fear death?

Speaker 2

Oh, everybody does.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

It's universal.

Speaker 3

It's women too, for sure.

Speaker 2

The most manly, courageous stud dog man is afraid of death.

Speaker 1

The most stud dog man of all. I mean, you're right. So it's just. It's funny to me because you can talk about this, being freed from it. Our whole culture is afraid of death.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

We can't even talk about it.

Speaker 3

And we don't.

Speaker 1

We're afraid. But how about not being afraid? Like, I'm not afraid.

Speaker 2

I mean, you had other ones, and that's all. That's all I need right there.

Speaker 1

I mean, you would think, right?

Speaker 3

Well, so you said I'm not afraid.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm like, guys. Like, it's not because I'm a superhero. I'm obviously not at all. Like, most of the guys in this room could beat me up. That's fine.

But imagine living a life where you're not. And this is like, shifting into another problem. Our whole culture does not know how to handle anxiety, and we're sick with anxiety.

Imagine being the non-anxious presence in your neighborhood, in your home, where you're no longer nervous about anything.

Speaker 3

It's funny, Brant, that you say that because, I mean, just a few weeks ago, I'm on a table having this stent put in.

And I remember right before the doctor's like, okay, you ready? And I said, yeah. And Lord, will you bless his hands and what he's about to do?

And as I was on the table, I thought, well, either God, you have more for me here, but if not, it's even better. And so there's no loss.

It's kind of Paul's words. To live is Christ, to die is gain.

Speaker 1

It's win, win. And it's Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life.

Speaker 3

All the days of my life.

Speaker 2

I wish I could say I was out in the waiting room praying the same thing. I wasn't praying that. Like, I don't want you to go.

Speaker 3

I didn't either. But I also know I don't have any control of that.

Speaker 2

Neither did I.

Speaker 1

You can become. Here's the thing. Like, we're all humans, but we do become less anxious people by following Jesus.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And learning how relaxed he is, like, in how he responds to things.

And he said he came to bring us a rich and satisfying life. Like, that's a quote from John 10:10. That doesn't start after you die. It's now.

But we actually have to learn his ways, like how to bless your enemies. So it's not just anxiety.

How would you like to not be angry?

Speaker 3

Oh, I'm just imagining. So you've hit death anxiety.

Speaker 2

I'm making a list.

Speaker 1

Right. Really? Right.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So these are things our culture has no way of handling. And Jesus is tell. He's a genius. Like, guys, he's the smartest man who ever lived.

I use this example all the time. And I've mentioned it with you before, too, but there are endocrinologists that tell us that anxiety and anger kill us. It has such a deleterious effect on our physiognomy.

And here's Jesus 2000 years ago, modeling how we can live without it because he loves us. But it ages us. It makes us put on weight. It costs us in terms of our heart. There's all of these problems that come from our not knowing what to do with anxiety or anger.

But we're not equipped for this. Jesus gives us a way to do it.

Speaker 3

What do you think? In our culture, people that have anxiety and are angry and. Or how are we coping with those without Christ?

Speaker 1

We're not.

Speaker 3

It's just it, like all the suggestions and numb out.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Alcohol, you name it.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 3

But it's hiding in. It's hiding into something because we can't deal with it. You're saying.

Speaker 1

Yes. Our culture is bankrupt on this.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And so if you read, and I've read a lot, it could be New York Times, the Atlantic or whatever, they'll talk about our culture. Epidemic of anxiety, epidemic of anger. What do you do? Well, you count to 10, you listen to some music, you meditate. It doesn't work, and people are seething with anger and it's ruining people's homes.

Jesus is talking about blessing those who curse you. He's talking about forgiving people out of gratitude that we have for being forgiven because we've been forgiven. And what that looks like in the Sermon on the Mount. He starts with anger when he's talking about how to live. It is the most fundamental human problem. He's giving us a way out of it.

Speaker 3

So I'm thinking about the people listening right now. They're like, no, you don't understand. I'm dealing with that right now.

And I do have Jesus and I am angry too.

So how do I apply that eternity right now? Like, what's that look like? How can I get out of that?

Speaker 1

Well, if I'm trusting God with his justice, I have to hand that over to Him. That is a very real thing. Like, I am not here to mete out all of justice in this world.

The other thing is, it really is going to kill you. It does not help. Like, if you're going to live with this.

The point is, anger happens. It's like a warning light on a dashboard. But we're told to get rid of it before the sun goes down.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So it's not a sin in and of itself, but thinking we're entitled to it is a sin because it'll destroy us, and God actually loves us. So this is a way to freedom.

If you're like, "Well, I can't just let this go," then you're going to be carrying it with you the rest of your life.

This is what I'm telling these guys, too: Look, it's hard to forgive people, but it's way harder to live a life of bitterness.

Speaker 3

You're saying, literally, it'll kill you.

Speaker 1

It'll kill you. And you have to carry that around. And it torpedoes your family; it torpedoes your relationships. Like, you're not living at peace. You don't have peace in your home because you think you're entitled to carry this thing around. Jesus is saying, don't do that. His way is smarter. And again, it's a better way to live. He's a genius in every field he knows.

So when he's telling us to be like the birds of the air, well, animals don't carry anger around with them. They have a fight or flight response, but it's over quickly. Like, they're not borrowing trouble that could happen next month. Again, everything Jesus is telling us is a genius way to live that's actually lighter and better.

I'm like, guys, imagine laughing more, not being afraid, not being as threatened by people. And how about this? How about not being ashamed?

Speaker 3

Ooh, you're hitting all these biggies, right? Yeah. All of us are dealing with.

Speaker 2

I'm writing down everything you're saying.

Speaker 1

How about that? Like, is this a better way of life or not? We're all going to carry around shame. Look what God does with Adam. I use Adam as an example when I wrote about this in the minute we need. But he blows it. He's responsible for mass destruction.

And when he blows it, God comes looking for him and says, "Where'd you go? What happened to us? We used to walk together." And then he clothes Adam. The clothes he puts on Adam and Eve are royal garments. The word is kehonith. So it's not just primitive furs that he's putting on. Like, these are royal robes.

Do you know that God still wants to cover you? That's what I'm saying to guys. Like, he still wants to walk with you. He wants to partner with you in your business. Do you know that? It's a great partner to have.

Speaker 3

And no matter what you've done, no matter what, you're right. Adam's sin cost all of us. All of us are experiencing the consequences.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

And yet God continued to pursue him, told him, come out of hiding.

Speaker 1

I'm here, I'm here. I want to walk with you. Yeah, but guys, you can walk with. You don't have to. He's not gonna force you to love him. That's the big experiment. Isn't it? Seems like that's the thing in Job where the enemy is like, yeah, you have to force these people to love you, or they have so much.

But, like, will we freely love him? And my answer is, yeah. As I've studied Jesus' way of living, not living in shame anymore, even though I am a sinner, present tense. And everyone in this room is, but he still wants to clothe you with royal garments. That's what he thinks of you.

Like, this is a better way to live.

Speaker 3

Guys, it's the gospel. And it doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 1

It's so good.

Speaker 3

It's so good.

Speaker 1

It's so good. And Jesus said, if you understand it, you're gonna go, I want that. Yeah, I want that. But rarely in church culture, I've noticed. And I'm in Christian radio, too. Rarely in Christian radio, like, do we really unpack what the gospel, the gospel of the kingdom actually is. The good news is here I have good news. Look at all the good stuff. This isn't bad news.

And just like that, like we were talking about Psalm 23. The rest of your life, you get to grow in this. You get to become a rock for your family. You're a beacon of peace in your family. You have peace in your home. You're not threatened by other guys like you used to be. You're not worried about tomorrow. Imagine that.

And then when you die, you're stepping into the kingdom in its fullness.

Speaker 2

I'm guessing 500 guys gave their life to Jesus.

Speaker 1

Honestly, there were hundreds of guys that were believers. I think there are probably 150 guys that weren't.

I think they told me that they have these response cards afterwards, but they had 90 guys say, for the first time in their lives, yeah, I want this.

Speaker 3

Come on.

Speaker 1

And so what they do so well is they meet each week and small group, but they disciple people. So the gospel, as I'm explaining it, matches up to discipleship.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

It doesn't leave you hanging. Like, okay, I said the thing. Now I go to heaven when I die. Like, what's what now?

Speaker 3

What now you get to learn the relationship piece.

Speaker 1

Right. He's my rabbi.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

He's my teacher.

Speaker 3

I'm gonna follow him.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I'm gonna follow. Jesus is looking for followers.

Speaker 3

What do you guys think that means? To follow Jesus. What's that look like?

Speaker 1

Practically speaking, I think it's the stuff we're talking about.

Speaker 3

Me, too.

Speaker 1

So you actually take what he says seriously? He even said to his disciples, go out and make other disciples, teaching them to obey the things I have commanded you to do.

Speaker 3

And why does he. This is the thing. Why does he say to obey? Because he loves them and because he doesn't want them to experience the pain that comes from the consequences of our sin.

Speaker 1

True. And that'll be like teaching them to obey what I've said. So he did say things about how to live, and they're very practical. But unfortunately, I feel like churches could, if they wanted, put a sign up that says, hey, Tuesday night at 7, we're going to teach you how to follow Jesus.

And it could be, here's how to bless your enemies. Like, how to bless people in traffic who are cursing you. And this is so practical. It's so doable, and it changes your heart.

So I've joked with you guys about this before. Like, traffic is forgiveness practice. Like, but it's so. But the practice, as you know, in your athletic background and both for both of you, like, you can do things that you couldn't do before because you trained.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So that following Jesus is the same thing. At first, you're like, "I can't just say bless, you know, I can't pray for blessings on some guy who just cut me off." You can. And when you do, and you make it a habit, it'll become second nature. You won't even react in the moment. You won't be throwing a fit like you used to. Because now you're different.

Why? You're learning the rhythm of life with Jesus. He's your rabbi. You take your cues from him. How does he act? Okay, so I do want to bless people who curse me. I do want to forgive people because I've been forgiven. All right? I do want to pray for those who are out to get me.

Like, this is a doable way of life. And it turns out Jesus knows what he's talking about. It's the best way of life that is available.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

Now do you want it?

Speaker 2

So often we think of following Jesus.

Speaker 1

As do nots, right?

Speaker 2

So often. That's where the church has started. Do not curse. Do not have sex outside. Do not. Which are all good things. You shouldn't. But we don't talk about what you just presented to those men. Who doesn't want that?

Speaker 1

Who doesn't want it? Why can't we present it that way? And it's true.

Speaker 2

And if you follow them, the do nots will happen. Oh, yeah, Those desires are going to fall away.

Speaker 1

The Pharisees were doing the do nots, or they were doing that way of life of, do not do this, do not do that. And Jesus is like, look, clean the inside of the cup.

Here's the thing. It gets easier when you become a different person. You become the type of person who now responds differently in the moment because you've been doing this stuff, and it becomes more second nature. So it's easier to do it.

At first, you can't just speak German. Like, I'm gonna speak German now, and I'm like, I can't do that. But I could become that person if I trained under a teacher, right? So it's the same thing. As I learn the ways of Jesus, I put it into practice. You become a different person.

And I told the guys, guys, this is an easier way to live. And that in a lot of church culture, they're like, you can't say that. Like, it's harder. It's not. Jesus said, it's easier.

Speaker 3

My yoke is easy.

Speaker 1

It's lighter. He said, so now you do have to deny yourself. But it turns out that that leads to a more easy way of life.

Speaker 3

And more freedom.

Speaker 1

More freedom, More freedom.

So when somebody hits you, you're so free that they don't determine your next move. Like the natural human reactions, you hit back.

But in the kingdom way of life, it's not my natural reaction anymore. You don't dictate my next move.

Speaker 3

So good.

Speaker 1

It's so good. This is a better way of living.

Speaker 3

I'm just sitting here, like, I'm thinking about myself as a parent with kids when they were growing up, like teenagers. As I'm talking about the gospel and scripture and all of that, I'm thinking, man, I think maybe I'd present it in that way now.

Because I think before we're so focused on, do you know Jesus? Did you say the prayer? Instead of saying, are you following him? And do you know how good it is to follow him? Those things?

Would you. I mean, how did you present that? You and Carolyn with the kids?

Speaker 1

Well, I'm learning as I go.

Speaker 3

Aren't we all? I would be so much better now.

Speaker 1

But you know what's cool is as you're listening, too, if you're like, well, I've never really thought about it this way. Okay, that's cool. Yeah. Like, we're still learning. Aren't we?

Speaker 3

Always.

Speaker 1

Wait. If we're disciples, we're always in learner mode. Always.

Speaker 2

That's what it means.

Speaker 1

That's not going to end. But the. The hard thing about this is if we're not teaching this to people, we're not teaching them to follow Jesus practically. We're actually making their lives harder.

Speaker 3

What do you mean?

Speaker 1

Well, we can be like, I want to make things convenient and cool. Like, hey, don't stress out about it. Just say the prayer. Go to heaven. You're not teaching them this way of life. That's actually easier.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So now they're stuck in these patterns and things. You haven't. You haven't taught them.

Speaker 3

It's like getting in a car and you don't know how to drive. Like, hey, good luck.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And they're crashing all over the place. Yeah.

Speaker 1

When Jesus talks about the narrow way and the wide way, he doesn't say the wide way is actually easy. Now, there are a couple of translations that throw that word in there, but it's not in the Greek. It's just narrow and wide. He actually says the wide way leads to destruction, which does not sound easy to me.

He also talks about how to live and wraps up the Sermon on the Mount with the example of a guy who builds his house on the sand and a guy who builds his house on the rock. Well, it's hard to build a house, but who's got it easy now after the storm? This is not the hardest way to live; this is a freeing way to live, but it's a narrow way.

Most people will choose anything but Jesus, but the people who do find that door discover that, wait, this is actually a lighter, easier yoke in life. Instead of worshiping somebody else, I will learn from him. And again, he's a genius. He knows how to live. He made us. So, yeah.

Speaker 3

So the person that's saying, like, I want that, like, I want to be discipled, I want to follow Jesus. I'm just going to church on Sundays, you guys. What does it look like to follow Him? How do I do that?

Speaker 1

I hope they have relationships with people who are being discipled or that the church is just actually discipling people.

We tend to think of disciples as somebody who's like, oh, you're getting really extreme with the whole Christian thing. That's not it at all.

There's only one thing, and that is being a disciple or not.

Speaker 3

It's a learner.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I think that explains a lot of hypocrisy that we see, because people never stepped into this way of life, and if they did, they wouldn't want to step out of it.

So my challenge, I guess, would be for just my perspective. Like, I hope more of us believers begin to understand things this way.

Speaker 3

Me, too.

Speaker 1

And then it's easy to talk to people about this and then go, hey, are you interested in it?

And then we can study Jesus stuff together. We can talk practically about how we can bless people who don't like us or pray for people who hate us.

And let's live this out. Yeah.

Speaker 2

I'm guessing you got invited to come back and do that again.

Speaker 1

I hope so.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

They said, yeah, they liked it. But I love talking about this stuff because I think it's so important, and it's something we've been missing as a culture. Not everybody, but it'd be nice to see this, like, catch fire.

Speaker 3

Me, too.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, your thoughts, Brandt. That's why we love. You are so fresh.

Speaker 1

Oh, thanks.

Speaker 2

They come from a different angle that many people aren't thinking. I gotta be honest, you know, I speak quite a bit at men's events, and I steal Bran Hansen's stuff every time. I give you credit every time.

Let me tell you, my friend Brian Hansen says, you know, the keeper of the garden, the whole thing. And I'm not kidding, everywhere I go, people are like, this is really fresh. I'm like, yeah, get the book.

Speaker 1

Cool.

Speaker 2

Thank you. And if our listeners haven't or our watchers actually haven't read the Men we need, which isn't what we're really talking about today.

Speaker 3

Well, this sounds like it's gonna be a new book.

Speaker 2

I'm just gonna tell you. It's in our show notes. It's go to familylifetoday.com show notes. There's a link there. You can go get the book.

Speaker 3

And when you have this new book, because have you started this? This is a whole new.

Speaker 1

Started it. Yeah.

Speaker 3

So we'll have you back on when we.

Speaker 1

I want to call it the Best Deal Ever.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1

Thanks. I haven't told my publisher that, so hopefully they'll like it. We'll see. Because I really do think it's like the pearl and the treasure in the field. It is like, that's. That's the kingdom.

Speaker 2

Yeah. You know, before we continue, let me say this. At family life, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a family life partner, you can make that happen.

Speaker 3

And I don't know if you realize this, but your monthly gift helps us equip marriages and families with biblical tools that they can count on.

Speaker 2

And that's a pretty cool deal. And we also want to send you exclusive updates, behind the scenes access, and an invitation to our private partner community, which is also pretty cool. So join us and let's reach marriages and families together.

Speaker 3

And you can go to familylifetoday.com and click the Donate button to join today. That's familylifetoday.com.

The idea of following Jesus is something I'm sitting here thinking of for our listeners right now. I think that's what we're inviting them to do. We follow him because you don't have to have the answers right away. The disciples didn't know everything; they were like, "Okay, we'll follow you." And they just learned along the way.

Speaker 1

Right. Isn't that great?

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

You can invite somebody in there, right?

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

How is following Jesus the best way to live in your marriage?

Speaker 1

Oh, goodness, that's a great question. You know what? Being a less anxious person helps in the home. So I'll start with that. Just the peace that comes from that for both of us personally, the forgiveness that becomes first nature.

As you practice this with your enemies at work or on the road or whatever you're praying for them, it changes your demeanor. And so that becomes the default in the home.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Less anger is always helpful.

Speaker 1

Yeah. There's this gentleness that we develop. There's a lack of neediness that comes over you over time. This is a process.

Speaker 3

You don't try to find your life through your spouse because you have found it in following Jesus.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's like there's this. That's the peace thing. Regardless of circumstances, you're okay. And that takes a lot of the heat out of some of the need that gets sidetracked in our marriages.

So I think those are really practical things. And I've decided long ago, I think, as a process in this, but I actually want to be more polite with my wife inside the house than I am with anybody else outside it.

Like, so that there's a gentleness. I'm more gentle with her than I am with strangers. Instead of inverting it. Yeah. A lot of times that's what happens. We treat other people with more respect in our homes. Like, I want to invert that.

Speaker 3

We just did a segment on that. Why are we nice to the people? Yeah.

Speaker 2

Just yesterday you are at home is who you really are.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

That kind of thing. And I do remember in college, I came out of to Christ in college. Pray to prayer.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Chose to start following Christ. And I remember one of the first things I noticed starting to change. It didn't change immediately, but immediately I noticed it.

And it was, you know, walking into that, I thought everything in my life is about, guess what?

Speaker 1

Me. You. Yeah.

Speaker 2

And I'm a college quarterback at the time. So it's like, I even get to go out on a field and all these people are looking at me.

And so I realized immediately it was like, it's not about me. In fact, it never has been. I'm supposed to consider others valuable.

Speaker 1

Not me.

Speaker 2

I'm not the most important person in the room. Actually, other people are. The selfish to selfless was a big shift that obviously applies in marriage.

Speaker 1

Think about the pressure. Like when Christians would say in the early going, Jesus is Lord. And that's. That was a big deal. Yeah. Because it meant Jesus is Caesar.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I'll tell you who Caesar is. Yeah. Like, that's a big deal. But it also means I'm not Caesar. If I say Jesus is Lord, I'm not Lord. Well, that's a big relief.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And your marriage doesn't become about my spouse meeting my needs. It's actually not. It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant.

Speaker 1

No. And then that Whole posture changes to, how am I helping other people flourish. Yeah. Which is absolutely life giving. But the neat thing is this is something you can step into now.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Even if you never have even never understood it this way, you can step into this now, and the people around you will benefit immediately.

You'll grow from here, but there'll be an immediate change in posture when you realize, like, wait a second, okay, I'm going to bless my enemies.

That may be the people in my home. Many times they're the ones that are driving us crazy. Right. But this practice will change that.

Speaker 3

And I think a lot of our listeners are probably followers and have been followers of Jesus, but they haven't invited somebody to go on a journey with them, you know, to follow Jesus. Hey, you want to follow Jesus with me? In terms of. That's that discipleship piece. Like, hey, you want to hang out and get coffee once a week?

Speaker 1

Or.

Speaker 3

And I can tell you how Jesus is changing me and how I'm failing sometimes. But my purpose, my anxiety, my anger, my shame is all different. And it's not overnight, but I'm changing.

Speaker 1

Well, it is such a neat thing to do with people, too, because you can start calling, you can go practice this during the week and get back and huddle like, okay, how did it go with your boss? Like, you said you hated him, so you started praying for him. And how are you feeling about them? And it's remarkable because you know as soon as somebody starts praying for somebody that drives them crazy, your heart starts to turn towards that person.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

You're actually for them now. You, like, they. You're so full of blessing that when. When somebody knocks into you, it just pours out.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Instead of curses, like. But that's fun to watch other people come alive like that and you're on the journey with them. Jesus is our teacher.

Speaker 3

We're following him together.

Speaker 1

Right. And we're learning from him. And we're doing it like this is. It's an exciting way to actually, actually do this thing now.

Speaker 2

So, you know, we were talking to you earlier. You talked to 500 men at a breakfast, and then you ended up in prison.

Speaker 3

Hey, I was thinking we should call this whole thing like Brant Hanson's Adventures.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Because then he's like, we're having lunch. And Brant says, oh, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2

What I did Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure. It'll be BR's Excellent Adventures.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 1

Misadventures.

Speaker 3

Somebody's. You use somebody's pickle ball rackets this.

Speaker 1

Is my new claim.

Speaker 3

Sorry.

Speaker 2

It's a paddle.

Speaker 3

Pickleball paddle.

Speaker 1

I just use the Mendez brothers pickleball paddles, which I did not see coming.

Speaker 2

That's a chapter title right there. Like, what is that for our listeners.

Speaker 3

Who don't know who they are?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Eric and Lyle Menendez. They're in prison in Southern California, and I wound up in their yard. It's a max security prison, and they do have a pickleball court, but we use their paddles. And I got to speak at this prison because a friend of mine had an inn there, and it's about 200 guys. And I talked for maybe. I did four separate hour long sessions. Really?

Speaker 3

Wow.

Speaker 1

Yeah. About anger and forgiveness. And you know what was wild? I got a guy helping me with audio, visual stuff. Super nice guy, really smart. He's one of the prisoners. You know, another guy was helping me with another thing, organizationally, getting set up, setting up chairs, and we're laughing and talking about stuff.

Speaker 3

These are all inmates?

Speaker 1

Yeah, all inmates. We're getting along great for life, right?

Speaker 3

They're in for life, all of them.

Speaker 1

I went home after the first day and Googled and I. The crimes are so unspeakable. It was like several of them had been subjects of, like, True crime podcasts and 48 hours episodes and absolutely unbelievable crimes.

Speaker 3

Would you have ever guessed it? No, never.

Speaker 1

No. And so you wind up thinking about, hey, I'm not the guy. If you. Anybody who knows me knows this. But, like, if you think of a guy who can go in and talk to tough guys, like, you wouldn't pick. I play the accordion, I play the flute. Like, you know, all that stuff. We've laughed about that. But the neat thing was not having any tattoos and owning up to the fact that I'm a nerd actually helped. Why do you think they told me that? They get used to people coming in and presenting. It's all about them. And they felt like what I was doing was I was genuinely not trying to impress them. And that was quite true. I wasn't and I think not having any hope of impressing them. Like, I don't even have. I don't have motorcycle. I don't have. You know, I don't. I can't say, yeah, you know, I know what it's like to be on the streets or whatever. I'm from a small town in the Midwest. Like, our biggest disagreement was between the John Deere people, the International Harvester people. It's like, it's. It's daunting. Though, because I was thinking about the grace of God. And when I'm sharing with church people, it just comes easy. And then these guys, what they've done, like, wow. There's one guy who was writing the whole time I was talking, just scribbling, scribbling, scribbling, scribbling. And my friend asked, what are you. What are you doing? He's like, I'm sharing this with my wife. This is everything. This is gold. He had murdered two people, strangers, when he was 14. And it was just one of the most brutal, random things. And then the backstory for him is so horrible, what he had gone through as a kid. Just absolutely. Like, that's what you would get with that sort of treatment that he went through.

Speaker 3

That would the outcome be.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but he's. He's writing all this stuff down, feverish. I don't know that he ever gets out of prison. And I don't even know how he met his wife. But that's the story for all these guys. Like, there were. There were guys. There were 70, 75 years old. They're never. Never leaving that place. Or guys with canes, guys with. In wheelchairs, older guys. They've been there for years.

Speaker 3

And it's like, how do you even.

Speaker 2

It's their life.

Speaker 3

Live like that or have any kind of hope.

Speaker 1

Right. You know what was neat, too? They had a church service. And the. I'm just. I'm just being honest here. The. They had a band of inmates, and the equipment wasn't great, and they weren't the greatest at their instruments, per se. Like, if you go to a mega church, they're not. They're not making it through the. And then in the. And the guy who led the singing was an older gentleman who would. Who would turn and face the screen so that he could see the lyrics, too. And it did not sound very professional. And that was the best worship service I have been to. There was no polish, but, man, those guys were letting it out. They're like, again, the hope of getting out is not happening. Yeah. For almost all these guys, why was it so great? I don't know. Well, I can tell you why from my perspective. Yeah, but the. The singing was visceral.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

They meant it.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

They needed it.

Speaker 1

And right in every word in that. Every song lyric. And that, you know, bless the Lord, O my soul. The sun comes up, It's a new day. And then there's all these men just belting it out.

Speaker 3

I'm just gonna cry the whole time, seriously. Because it's A picture of the gospel. Like, not. It's. They don't deserve it. No, neither do we. But they certainly don't because of. That's what they feel, too.

Speaker 1

No. And so I think that's why it was so great, too. And my friend and his wife's a brilliant worship leader, and we both know some musicians that are, you know, well known, blah, blah, blah. And so it occurred to us both, hey, we could get this guy, that lady in here or that worship band. And they can. And it dawned on us simultaneously that would ruin it. No, this isn't about Polish. And it's not like now, next week.

Speaker 3

That'Ll be way better.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I remember. You guys aren't good. Like, no, it was a heart thing. And the neat thing was I got to get up. And again, I'm talking about the Men we need book. I was talking about masculinity. And like a. Jesus leveled the moral playing field. I know what you guys did. You don't know that I'm as guilty. It's not as obvious because I'm not wearing the uniform, but Jesus levels the playing field. He's like, if you. If you've hated someone, like some people have hated people, but they don't have the guts or the wherewithal to go through with it. They just didn't do it. But Jesus said, you know, you're just as guilty. So none of us, like, we're all here. And the remarkable thing, again, is that Adam is responsible for millions of deaths. And God wanted to walk the rest of his days with him. And when he. When they left the garden, God did not kick them out and then say goodbye. He kicked them out and went with them after they blew it for all of humanity like that. He clothed them in royal garments. And I want you guys to know that you are still in that relationship with him if you want to partner with him. And most of those guys that came to the church, there's not all, but most were believers, but they still. We all need to hear that.

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 1

Because we're all ashamed of ourselves. And we can all. Without this. Without this covering. So, yeah, that's.

Speaker 3

I'm just picturing them imagining what they've done. But Jesus clothing them with royal garments and how contrary that must be to what they hear. The enemy speaking to them of their horrible crimes.

Speaker 2

They heard it from their dad.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Surely you are not worthy of eternal life because you have blown it. I mean, I'm just thinking of the enemy, the accuser, constantly saying, you don't deserve anything.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

And yet Jesus clothing them and wanting. Wanting to walk with them.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

It's so contrary to the world.

Speaker 1

Yeah. You know, when you talk to people about it, and it's not like, you need to know this, it's more like, let's just look at this thing together. How in the world? Like, I don't deserve that either. Nobody out there knows.

Speaker 3

Nobody.

Speaker 1

And they know that, too. They're like, you know, there's bad people out there too. Like. Right.

Speaker 3

They may not be in here, but they're still right.

Speaker 1

But none of us but that. But the whole. Instead of, like, make a presentation. I think having the posture of let's all just marvel at this together is probably a good posture for any church service anytime. But in that environment, it's especially poignant and it's. And it's instructive to me. Then you develop a heart. And you know what? The people who do prison ministry. I've heard this from people who do prison ministry, and they're like, yeah, Brandt, duh. It's the best thing ever. They will. They're so excited about it. And now, like, I didn't get it until then. I'm like, okay, now I get it.

Speaker 2

Why? Why?

Speaker 1

Because of the honesty and the desperation.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

What else do they have?

Speaker 1

Right? And so the. The desire to learn, the hunger to learn. Guys were there who weren't believers. They just want to learn. One guy's like, you know, I'm not a Christian, but I want to ask you about this. Like, you know, how do you handle this and that? I like, hey, I appreciate that. I'll answer this question. But they're like, okay, I want to learn the thing. I want to learn scripture. The believers that are there, there's a hunger to learn. And I know this too, from experience. And even looking at scripture, we know this. Desperate wins. Yeah, always. Every time. If somebody's more desperate to get to Jesus, then they go to the front of the line. If they want to cut through the ceiling. And everybody else is like, you can't do that.

Speaker 3

If you want to grab his robe. Just the tap.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. There's a huge crowd. And there's an important guy who just asked Jesus to heal his daughter or son. And then she's so desperate to get to him that now the guy has to wait and the crowd disappears from the scene. The crowd's not even mentioned again. He's just laser focused on this woman who shouldn't even be there, but she's desperate. Like, desperate wins. And so there's this. There's this awareness of God being here that we can miss, I think. And so I get it now. I'm sorry. All the prison ministry people, if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years. It's incredible. I understand now.

Speaker 2

Well, we try to cover up desperate.

Speaker 1

Totally.

Speaker 2

That makes us look weak and frail, and we want to be strong. And I'm not desperate. That guy's desperate, but not me. And I feel the same way about celebrating recovery in churches.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

Whenever I walk in that room, I'm like, I'm with the most honest people in our church.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

They've been to the bottom. They're not hiding anymore. Their addiction's out. And they're like, okay, help.

Speaker 1

So, yeah, Recovery Church is a church network that's really taken off across the country. It's amazing, but it's all people coming from addictions.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well, I'm even thinking of our listeners who are desperate because their kids are just struggling or their marriage or they've walked away or their marriage or someone's sick, and it can feel like the worst place ever to be.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

It feels like that. I've been there. I understand that. But there's also such a neediness that you're on your face before God.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And that's the beauty of that place. Like, we can't do it.

Speaker 2

Lord.

Speaker 3

Apart from you.

Speaker 1

That's a good place to be. I just. My understanding in my life, and I keep reading the Bible and keep seeing the same thing over and over, is he draws closer to you because of that. He's close to the brokenhearted. He stores your tears in a bottle. I call that, like, the. The desperation just wins with him. So I think if you are in that sort of a situation, and this is what I experienced, like, in. In Recovery Church, I remember they're singing. The worship band is all people have come out of addictions, right?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

They're not paid. Like, there's no paid stuff. Like, it's. It's amazing. But there's this. The incredible, like, visceral gratitude in the room.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

In desperation. But when you sing my chains are gone, I've been set free, and, like, literally. And their hands are raised, and you see people, like, they're belting it out. It's not just words. It's not just going through the motions. But that's a. Every understanding I have from scripture is that that is a great place to be. Like, he is closer to us than ever. So you've got a different place with him. And the other thing I've learned, too, in praying is you do feel desperate for your kids or something like that. Well, tell God. Tell God everything with that intensity. I pray for needs. I'm like, God, I need this for my kid. Adults. But I have something in mind. I've seen you do this for other people. You can do this for him.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I know you can.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But we're having it out, and I think that's okay.

Speaker 3

Me too. I do that a lot. And he wants that relationship because if he's walking with me, I'm talking about it.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

And that's what he's saying. I want to talk and walk with you all the time.

Speaker 1

I feel like the. The prison example was a great example of that. Like these. These people are at a point. And the fact that even I. And I'm not the guy who senses God's presence easily or I don't use those words very much because I'm just. I'm kind of a robot. Even I. In that prison. Like, okay, there's something really. Yeah. God's here with these guys. It's the. It's the desperation.

Speaker 2

I tell you what. When you're in a community and people are desperate and they're passionate about the. The answer to their desperation. The. The unchurched guy is drawn to that. It's not the Polish. He's drawn to. He's drawn to the passion.

Speaker 1

Totally.

Speaker 2

He's drawn to. What do you have? Why are you excited about this? What I. I want to know this like you do.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

You know what I'm saying, Right?

Speaker 1

There's a. A Spurgeon quote. I'm not going to get it exactly right, but it's set yourself on fire and people will come from miles around and watch you burn.

Speaker 3

Watch you burn.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. There really is some. Something to that. And there's something so compelling when you see it, and then you wish. It didn't take those kind of straights to get us to be that passionate. Yeah. About how we've been forgiven and how good that is. Yeah. So I want to live. I kind of want to live in that each day. And I think it's doable. I think you. You learn more and more.

Speaker 2

Yeah. If we could only get as excited about Jesus as we do the. Our favorite team's touchdown.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

You know.

Speaker 1

You know, I think we can.

Speaker 2

I know.

Speaker 1

But our identity is wrapped up with our team. Yeah. And as our identity gets wrapped up with. As being a follower of Jesus, it Actually, you do get more excited about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Let me ask you, because I'm still picturing these guys. Talk about feeling unworthy and feeling like I don't deserve freedom. I don't deserve anything. And I know there's listeners I used to feel like that I'm so unworthy and because of what had happened to me. And I'm sure they had felt it by both what had happened to me and what I had done to others. So there's this probably shame and unworthiness as I'm thinking of our listeners, that they're imprisoned, but they're home. They're not in a prison, they're imprisoned. What would you say to them? You know, would you say the same things?

Speaker 1

You've got the image of God stamped on you. And apparently that's really important. It really is. I mean, like, his value for us is incalculable. And what I don't want to do as somebody who struggles with the same thing or has struggled, and what I don't want to do is override God's opinion with mine. I want his opinion to matter more.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So I can look at myself and I have a feeling that I'm a failure. I can have a feeling that I'm unworthy. Okay. That's a feeling again. Warning lights on a dashboard. That's what feelings are. But I have to return to the truth. And the truth is that God is covering me in royal garments and he wants to partner with me in life. I'm not going to say no to that. I'm not. I'm not going to let my opinion of me overwhelm that. So I'm going to speak truth to myself.

Speaker 3

That's good.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

What's that sound like?

Speaker 1

Well, it sounds like in Lamentations is Jeremiah like, who's. Who's looking at everything being destroyed. And he can see it, his nation's being destroyed. And he says, yet I call this to mind, and therefore I have hope because of the Lord's great love for us. We are not consumed. And he says, his mercies are new every morning. So whatever I've done. And great is your faithfulness, O Lord. But he has to tell himself that. David says, why are you so downcast, O my soul? Put your trust in God. Or he says, I'm afraid, so I will praise God again. So it's like these are human emotions. Shame is a very human thing to feel. But I want to replace my perception with God's reality. Right. And so that does take us having a change Having a renewed mind. And that does start with what I pay attention to. So I need to be paying attention to things that are actually life giving and true. Things that I can. Like the scripture I was just quoting. Like, I can bring that to mind to say, Brant, you're not a failure. You don't need to be ashamed of yourself. His mercies are new every morning.

Speaker 3

Being clothed in righteousness.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And in some ways, you know, I remember in seminary, our president, Ron Jensen, talking about Psalm 103, Bless the Lord, O my soul. You mentioned the song. Who did that song, Bless the Lord?

Speaker 1

Matt Redmond.

Speaker 2

Matt Redmond.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 2

I mean, in some ways, what Ron was saying, I'll never forget this. This is 40 some years ago. So sometimes I get in the shower in the morning and I don't want to bless the Lord. My feelings are just dead. They're not passionate. And you know what I do? Bless the Lord. Oh, my soul. Come on, soul. Bless the Lord. Brandon Lake's gratitude worship song is another song, you know, Come on, my soul. Don't you get shy on me. That's a psalm. And he's like, come on, soul, let's go. I don't feel it.

Speaker 1

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

Speaker 2

We're going to bless the Lord right now. He's amazing. He's done great things. I'm going to. I'm going to bless the Lord.

Speaker 1

But we know this from psychology, too. Your feelings follow from your behavior so often. Like, you can. You can worship your way into feeling warm feelings.

Speaker 2

Truth your way in.

Speaker 1

Yeah, right, Right. You really do. It changes that. You do something nice for somebody, you love them more. Yeah, it's true. You feel something. Like, so that's a. That's just a genius way. And again, it's laid out in scripture that way. Like, why are you so downcast? But you praise God? Not because God needs it. He's feeling lonely today. He's feeling down in the dumps. Tell him he's great. Like, that's not why it's for you. So that you don't have to be nervous.

Speaker 2

Get your soul where the truth is. All right, we got a question from the peanut gallery. Our producer, Jim Mitchell, our audio engineer, Bruce Goff. They're sitting in there and, you know, I have a feeling because they texted me that they want to ask you a question about something.

Speaker 4

Just dying to ask a question. This happens every time you come, Brandt. You get this room in here all worked up. You say provocative things.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 4

We mean it as a compliment. Just to follow up on the earlier part of the conversation where you were talking about the way of Jesus being easier. I'm not thinking that's what you mean. I'm not thinking easy is the right word. I think what you're saying is it's hard, but it's better. But I want to just make sure I'm understanding because I've not found following Jesus to necessarily be easy. And I know there's a lot of listeners and viewers that wouldn't characterize their walk with Jesus as easy. And even the verse you quoted, Matthew 7:14, There is several translations that say, how narrow is the gate? And difficult the way that leads to life. So when we find, you know, speak to that listener that has found it difficult and yet probably better.

Speaker 1

Yeah. When it says narrow is away or difficult, if you go into the Greek, you're going to see narrow again. It's the same word. And I find it very interesting that we have this orthodoxy that even influences how we translate the Bible. For example, there's translations of the Bible. When Jesus says, you know, don't be angry, they insert a scribe, maybe centuries later insert it, unless for good reason. And that shows up in like King James Version and some other stuff. But now there's an azard asterisk by going. Actually, that's not in the original.

Speaker 2

So how would the narrow is the gate read?

Speaker 1

Well, it says, it doesn't say difficult. It's a narrow again.

Speaker 2

Oh, narrow is the gate.

Speaker 1

Look at like you can do a.

Speaker 3

You got a bad translation, Jim.

Speaker 4

No, but I mean, I hear that. But there's some pretty smart guys on the esv, the Net Bible. They're, they're taking the text seriously and they're, they're translating it that way.

Speaker 1

They're not just. Okay, here's the other thing. I'm not saying either, either path is easy. I'm saying this is easier. And I absolutely believe that it is easier. I do believe it. Yeah.

Speaker 4

You seem to be. This seems to be kind of a life message for you right now, that there are physiological benefits and psychological and relational benefits to actually following Jesus in the path of Jesus. So he was gracious to call us into following him. It's not all bad news. It's good news. I'm just wondering, experientially, when people have found it difficult. You're still saying, but it's good. And it's actually better than what you would be experiencing if you weren't following Jesus.

Speaker 1

I mean, if you see it clearly, you will play it Out.

Speaker 2

Play it out. In some areas, you already. You already talked about forgiveness. It's easier to forgive.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Than live a life of forgiveness.

Speaker 2

It's more difficult to do, but it's a lot worse not to.

Speaker 1

At first, yeah. But then actually it gets easier over time as you grow.

Speaker 2

How about resist sin again?

Speaker 1

It gets easier as you go because.

Speaker 2

People say, no, that's hard. I can't, you know, at first.

Speaker 1

Yeah, sure. So, like, Timothy Jennings is a neuroscientist and a believer. I don't know if you've interviewed him. No. But he wrote a book called the God I Can't Remember God Shaped Brain. But he uses a great example. Like he was tempted to smoke cigarettes when he was in middle school and his mom told him not to. And then he did and he got busted and then he tried not to, you know, then he stumbled and fell. And then he's. He's like, you know what? I don't have a problem with that anymore. And it would be weird if I called my mom every day to go, I didn't have a cigarette yesterday because I'm a non smoker. It's not on my. It's not on my plate anymore. I've grown out of that. It's not a thing. So that is very doable in life where it becomes an easier response because you have changed as a person. It's all about who you're becoming. Yeah. So with sin you can go. Yeah, it's hard for me to. To not. If you're caught up in. In something, it's hard for me to not do that. But actually, if you change your schedule and go through that narrow way, it becomes easier as the farther away you are from it. And then living a life without being a slave to that is an easier way of life.

Speaker 3

That's what I just wrote down. It's. Without Christ. You're a slave to your desires.

Speaker 1

You're a slave to your desires. That is your flesh.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

So being freed from that is actually an easier way to live. In fact, being a slave to your desires will make life pretty miserable.

Speaker 3

Exactly.

Speaker 1

So this is an easier way to live. You do have to deny yourself. So both ways can be hard. Both guys had to build the house. But in life it's actually gonna turn out to be easier, lighter way. Even if there are difficulties, it's easier than the alternatives.

Speaker 3

Because the storm is coming to both houses.

Speaker 1

Absolutely.

Speaker 3

The rain falls on the just and the unjust and destruction is coming for all of us.

Speaker 1

Well, destruction's coming for the Wide way.

Speaker 3

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1

That's not easy.

Speaker 3

Hard things happen, no matter what's going on. Because through the adversity, God is shaping us, but he's with us in it.

Speaker 2

My journey with alcohol would match exactly what you said. My dad was an alcoholic. My mom was alcoholic before I was a believer. I'm going to every party and I'm drinking. And then when I come to Christ and I want to stop this, because I'm not drinking to have a drink. I'm drinking to get drunk. That was why I drank. It wasn't have a glass of wine, it was have five. And I. And I thought, man, this is hard. I can't go to a bar. If I go to a bar, I fall because I did a couple times and I'm like, I can't go to a bar. And so I never did. I stopped and I'm like, okay. I go to a party and they'd hand me a beer and I'm like, ah. I felt it was hard. Guess what? I go to a bar now. No problem.

Speaker 1

Yeah. You're a different person.

Speaker 2

I'm a different person. There's the desire. If somebody stuck a beer in my hand and say, no, thanks.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's just not. It's not a. But being an alcoholic is really hard.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Being a slave to your desires is hard.

Speaker 1

That is the alternative. So again, there's a cost of discipleship. But even if you read the Cost of Discipleship by Bonhoeffer, he allows that this is an easier way to live. The cost of non discipleship is higher. So I guess that's how I would put it. There's a cost. The pearl costs something. The treasure in the field costs something. But if you see it, you're like, I want that. Not because it's going to make your life harder. The pearl merchant's not buying the thing because it's going to make his life worse, but it'll be richer. It makes it richer and better. There are blessings that will flow from it. There's innumerable examples. That's. That's a great example. But also just like being able to forgive people, other people can't. Yeah, they're stuck with it. Whatever happens in traffic now determines their.

Speaker 3

Mood for the day.

Speaker 1

For the day. That takes a toll on your body. That's a harder way to live.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So that mean. That would be my. My counter to that. I don't know if it makes. If it makes sense, but I actually think what Jesus is saying that His. His yoke is lighter and easier. That he actually means that. And like. But it is narrow. It is narrow.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I. I think. I mean, I. I agree. Like, the. Just not being afraid of death has physiological like, I'm going to sleep better, my relationships are going to be better. I get it. I just worry a little bit about there is a narrow way and there is a cost. There were people that left because that saying is hard. The disciples even pushed back and said, what about us? We've left these things too. And he says, in the kingdom, you'll receive a return. So they were feeling a valid hardship to discipleship. But I know you're hard. I mean, I know what you're saying. I guess I was just entertaining the thought. Are people raising their hand to receive the gospel for the temporary benefits, the health benefits, the. Yeah, I want that. I've had a hard life. I want an easier life versus the actual gospel. This is the son of God that created you. You know, I don't know. I know you're saying all of it. Not. Not either or. But that's what I was trying to interact with.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. Like when they send the disciples out to share the good news. What was that? What do you mean? Well, Jesus sent his disciples out to share the good news. What were they saying?

Speaker 2

Oh, kingdom of God is at hand.

Speaker 1

It's available. It's open for business.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

It's going to make your life worse. Or you can step into the kingdom now and it's a rich and satisfying life that's lighter. Yeah.

Speaker 4

Thanks, Brad, for letting us interact with you around it. You got us thinking. It's very provocative.

Speaker 2

Good.

Speaker 4

In a good way.

Speaker 1

I do like that. And it's also good for me to hear your responses to too. Like, I appreciate your judgments on it. Helps me to be a better communicator. So send your emails to Brant Hansen@familylife.com. yeah, exactly. Something like that. Get a quick apology.

Speaker 3

Hey, thanks for watching. And if you like this episode, you better like it. Just hit that like button and we'd.

Speaker 2

Like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe. I can't say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don't think I can say this.

Speaker 3

Word like and subscribe.

Speaker 1

Look at that.

Speaker 2

You say it so easy. Subscribe. There he goes.