FamilyLife Today®

Matt Hammitt: That’s when this work and family tension started really coming into play more was, okay, now she’s home raising the kids, and my schedule’s not slowing down.

I just remember walking into the door after a long couple weeks away and Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear: “We need to talk.”

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson and you can find us at familylifetoday.com.

Ann Wilson: This is FamilyLife Today. Hey, you know what I’m excited about today? That we’re going to talk about true love.

Dave Wilson: True love?

Ann Wilson: Yeah, the kind that endures.

Dave Wilson: You just surprised me. Where did that come from?

Ann Wilson: I’m just saying, this is where we’re going today. Who doesn’t want to hear that? True love.

Dave Wilson: But not just true love like this romantic story. This is true love that goes the distance, has the highs, the lows.

Ann Wilson: Gets in the mud.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, from a famous couple. Matt and Sarah Hammitt are with us. They just rolled their eyes. If you’re watching on YouTube, you saw that. If you’re listening on audio, you want to go to YouTube.

What’s really funny is, they are a famous couple because lead singer of Sanctus Real for 20 years. A Dove Award winner.

Ann Wilson: Here’s what I’m going to tell you, this is funny. She’s not going to like this. We had John Cooper on from Skillet a couple years ago. And Ann says to him at the intro, “Hey, and you won four Grammys.” He goes, “No, I was nominated for four. I didn’t win any of them. Thanks for bringing that up.”

Sarah Hammitt: Matt has two nominations.

Dave Wilson: I know, he’s had two nominations for a Grammy. That’s big time.

Matt Hammitt: No wins.

Dave Wilson: But still, whoever won those Grammys, they didn’t deserve it. You did.

Ann Wilson: Hey, let’s do a game with them.

Dave Wilson: All right, go for it.

Ann Wilson: Okay, we’re going to do a couple's game with you. Matt, I want you to swivel your chair and turn this way, so don’t look at Sarah. But Sarah, you can look at us.

Dave Wilson: You can’t look in the window either, Matt. You can’t see her. You might have to close your eyes.

Ann Wilson: Okay, so here we go. Matt, describe in detail what Sarah is wearing today.

Matt Hammitt: She’s wearing dark blue jeans with a black shirt, a gray blazer. It’s gray, it’s got speckles with white and black in it, but it’s grayish. And she is wearing a necklace with two little rings on it and earrings that complement those.

Ann Wilson: Let me go a little further. True or false: Is she currently wearing gold hoop earrings?

Matt Hammitt: I do believe so, yes.

Ann Wilson: True or false: Her nail polish is... does she have any nail polish on?

Matt Hammitt: Yes, she does. It would be a cream color. I’m color deficient, actually. I have a thing with my eyes. I can’t see colors the same way.

Ann Wilson: Okay. And true or false: She is wearing nude lipstick?

Matt Hammitt: I wouldn’t know the color. She is wearing lipstick. I wouldn’t be able to tell you what color it was.

Ann Wilson: This is unbelievable. Okay, you can turn back, Matt.

Dave Wilson: I’m not surprised. He’s an artist. I am blown away by this.

Sarah Hammitt: As she was doing that, I’m like, I’m not the attention-to-detail person. He’s the attention-to-detail person. He’s the creative.

Ann Wilson: Sarah, close your eyes. What’s Matt wearing?

Sarah Hammitt: He’s wearing a cream shirt and black everywhere else.

Matt Hammitt: Same thing I wear every day.

Ann Wilson: That’s impressive.

Dave Wilson: I don’t even know what Ann’s wearing right now. I don’t think I could answer that question like you. You knew every part of it.

Matt Hammitt: It’s a blessing and a curse. I’m a little OCD. I make up for it that way.

Ann Wilson: Sarah, do you feel like then that Matt sees you? Not only what you’re wearing outside.

Sarah Hammitt: I don’t know if I’ve thought about it from a positive angle, meaning the OCD. He sees every little crumb on the counter. He’s attention to all the details, which can overwhelm his senses. But you’re right, it is a compliment that he would know what I’m wearing.

Dave Wilson: But it’s sometimes gotta bug you.

Sarah Hammitt: I do get bothered. It’s confession time now.

Ann Wilson: Okay, tell us, here’s the next question: Your latest fight. You have a good one recently?

Sarah Hammitt: I’ll let him speak to it.

Matt Hammitt: What’s the gracious way to say this? We had a fight this morning before we came. Pretty bad. We were parked outside in the other neighborhood chatting about how to land the plane before we go over here.

This has happened every single time we’ve had to do anything together marriage-related. We always have a fight before it happens. No joke. We’ll be going, coasting, I’m thinking things are just so great in this season, we haven’t had a fight in X amount of time, and then without fail we’re getting ready to go do something like this.

Ann Wilson: Why do you think?

Matt Hammitt: I know why I think.

Sarah Hammitt: I think we have two different perspectives of what’s happening. In my opinion, Matt has a very highly stressful life where a lot of people are watching him. For somebody who’s OCD and anxious, that can make your wick short and you feel overwhelmed.

I think his disposition, whether he knows it or not, comes out and I start to feel scared, and so then I start to react out of that. I could go further, but I’ll stop there. I think you’re being selfish.

Matt Hammitt: Well, it started last night. Obviously, I booked Sarah’s flights and I checked her in, I got all the hotel ready, checked into the hotel, I bought her clothes yesterday for options and put them on the bed for her in case she wanted them.

Dave Wilson: Wait, what? You did all that?

Matt Hammitt: I went and I picked up things. I got the whole hotel room set. I put some snacks on top of her clothes that I knew she liked. I saved my graham crackers from the Southwest flight so that when she walked in the hotel room she would feel loved. So I had this plan that I was going to take her back to the hotel which was five minutes away and then we would decide if we wanted to go eat somewhere.

Right as I got the car before I picked her up, I couldn’t get the CarPlay to work on the screen. So I had to hold the map in my hand and there wasn’t really many restaurants around. I was trying to text her on the plane about, “Hey, are you hungry? Where do you want to go?” but her wifi wasn’t working so I had no idea.

I pick her up and I’m driving with one hand and I’ve got the map already set in the other hand. So both my hands and the highway, all the traffic, people are zipping around me. And she goes, “If you’re hungry, I don’t want to go back to the hotel. Let’s just go straight there.” I said, “But I don’t know where to go because I planned that we just run back to the hotel, make a decision there.” She’s like, “Well, that’s silly. I don’t want to go back to the hotel.”

Sarah Hammitt: But I have my map in my hand and it’s four minutes away. And I’m finding other places. Let’s not take the time, it’s 8:30, I don’t want to eat super late, let’s just go. We don’t need to put the suitcases back, let’s just go. So one is a pointer and one is a planner and one is spontaneous.

Mind you, I had just been home tending to all our children, getting them all set. We both have all the super big stress. I’m like, I’m free, let’s not stress, let’s just bypass the hotel, let’s go eat so we can get back faster. We just had different ideas.

Matt Hammitt: I was frustrated because I’m like, can we just get to the hotel and decide? It’s like my brain was on that path, map in my hand. I was there and she was just like, “Well, let’s find somewhere else.” I’m just like, I don’t know what to do. Then I missed my exit. I veered off the wrong way.

Sarah Hammitt: And then we went all the way to downtown Disney of all places.

Matt Hammitt: Just driving. Oh no.

Dave Wilson: Well, that would have been a good place to eat.

Matt Hammitt: And he hadn’t eaten all day and he was starving. I think probably I thought I was being calm but I probably wasn’t because I hadn’t eaten anything. And she probably thought she was being calm when she said, “I don’t want to go to the hotel,” but to me it came across as so honest, like, “I don’t want to go to the hotel, that’s not an option.” And I’m like, I just don’t know what to do right now. I felt helpless and I was hungry.

Sarah Hammitt: So there you go. And then it continued. We were fine.

Dave Wilson: Why’d you fight this morning, though?

Matt Hammitt: Same kind of thing. She wanted to sit down for a while and I was like, “Well, can we just finish getting ready then we can go sit and have some coffee?” She’s like, “I don’t want to just have coffee. I want to sit down.” She’s like, “I want to sit down and relax.”

Sarah Hammitt: In some ways we have two girls in the relationship because he’s an artist and so his feelings are hurt and he needed some repair, and I’m just like, “Let’s just be happy and just go.” Let’s just get ready and be happy. So there’s two repairs.

Dave Wilson: But this is so common and normal. The part that you lay out the clothes and all that stuff, that’s pretty sweet. You just put every husband onto the pile. “What? I’m supposed to lay out her clothes?”

Matt Hammitt: I can give you a list of all the things I do wrong. I make up for it that way.

Ann Wilson: Dave and I, we often get in these little tiffs right before we get up to speak.

Dave Wilson: I don’t know if “often” is the right word. Not as often anymore.

Ann Wilson: But I perceive it as he gets super short and snappy because he’s stressed. But I take it personally. Right before we walk on stage.

Dave Wilson: I don’t know if you’re like that as a singer, but I’m like that as a preacher.

Matt Hammitt: Maybe not... well, I think leading up to, like I said, because we’re not really together, like you guys are speaking together. I’m usually speaking or singing on my own, so I don’t even have to deal with that. But the dynamic of coming into this, it was that. It was some of the nerves, some of like trying to stay connected, trying to stay...

Sarah Hammitt: And there’s also spiritual warfare. I think that’s it for sure. From the moment we scheduled this interview, it was sort of like it revved up a little bit.

Dave Wilson: Did you hear that, listeners? That means this is going to be good. It already has been. Somebody out there going, “Okay, thank God I’m not alone.”

Ann Wilson: And that is, that’s the beauty of a love story. It’s the picture of God with His people. How long has this love story been going on?

Matt Hammitt: 24 years.

Dave Wilson: 24 years! Wow, I didn’t know it was that long. You guys look so young.

Matt Hammitt: We’ll be 25 next July.

Ann Wilson: So this book’s been out a little bit. But tell us about it, tell us the title and what made you write this.

Matt Hammitt: In about 2008, Sarah had been home for a little while with our kids after she toured with us. I started the band Sanctus Real with my friends. We were 16 years old.

So we were an independent band for a while, met Sarah when I was 19. By the time we were 21, we signed a record deal and Sarah and I got married the same year, in 2001.

Ann Wilson: Wait, I need you to go back and tell us how you met her.

Dave Wilson: Oh yeah, I want to hear that. This is the part that I love.

Matt Hammitt: So we were playing a music festival in Columbus, Ohio. We played early in the day. That night Third Day was playing. I was sitting up on the hill looking down at the stage, and I just saw her on the outskirts of the crowd down there, just dancing and laughing and smiling.

She had overalls on and bare feet. She looked so carefree. It really was like OCD saw carefree and thought, “This woman completes me.” And that’s been the love story. I just thought she was beautiful. I was too anxious to talk to her that night. Story of my life.

I got up the next morning to lead worship at a community-wide worship service. I didn’t know her parents’ and her grandmother’s church were all part of this gathering and they’d invited her to come up as well to be with them. So I get up there on stage to lead worship and I look out and I see her there the next morning. So after I sang, I went and I introduced myself to her and pretty quickly fell in love.

Ann Wilson: Sarah, was it the same for you? Were you looking at him like...

Sarah Hammitt: I actually was hoping he was looking at me at that big festival. I was trying to get in his line of sight because I was like, “Oh, he’s so cute!” and he knew my brother.

The next day I did not know he was going to perform at that thing, and then he happened to be there. So I had hoped he would come up to me, and he did.

Dave Wilson: That’s a God thing.

Ann Wilson: How much longer before you were married?

Matt Hammitt: About almost two years. August or September is when we started dating in 1999. We got married in 2001.

Dave Wilson: And where was your career at that time? How were you guys doing with Sanctus Real?

Matt Hammitt: So we were just at that time, we had artists like Audio Adrenaline, TobyMac, all had labels. Gotee Records Toby had, which actually funny enough I’m an artist on now.

But he had looked at Sanctus Real. The A&R guys were trying to get us to sign with their record label, Flicker, at the time. We ended up going with Sparrow Records, but it was all kind of culminating around that same time I met her that we were going to get our big thing you always dream of, at least in those days.

Nowadays a lot of kids want to be independent, get famous on their own through social media. But back then it was the record label, getting a record deal.

Ann Wilson: Sarah, what did you think? You kind of had an idea of what your life could look like maybe with an artist?

Sarah Hammitt: Yeah, I’m so carefree I didn’t think much about it. My dream was always to get married and have babies. So it was like, okay, then I’ll just support your dream because I don’t have a particular passion that I need to go chase after.

I’ll be the support essentially. We were very young. We even look back and we’re like, “Wow, we were young.” I mean, almost too young. But we did it.

Dave Wilson: And a lot of people think, “Oh, you got a record deal, you’re making all this money and it’s just this glorious life of singing and being famous.” It wasn’t that at all.

Matt Hammitt: No, not for many, many years. I write in the book even at some of the seasons that people would have thought we’d have been making a lot of money, I tell some pretty bold numbers in there.

Once you pay all the expenses, especially for bands, it’s a lot easier for solo artists because they own everything, they own all their own merchandise and all the royalties go to them. But when you’re a band, you split everything four or five ways. You’re all paying, it’s just a lot. So we were poor for a lot of years.

Sarah Hammitt: But happy and just really feeling fulfilled and, outside of our conflict, yes, absolutely.

Dave Wilson: Were you traveling with Matt?

Sarah Hammitt: Yeah, for the first five years I traveled until I got pregnant with Emmy year six. I was six months pregnant. We hadn’t gotten our tour bus yet. We hadn’t had a big song quite yet.

So I’m six months pregnant in between the back row of a Ford van and the back door, bouncing around on a sleeping bag with him sleeping. And I’m like, “I should probably get off the road. This probably isn’t healthy for my baby.” And so at six months, I got off the road. Then that was it. I would come out on the tour bus once they got a tour bus. I could come out with the kids and so that was nice.

Matt Hammitt: That’s when the tension I think of just me trying to figure out how do I keep pursuing this dream while I’m away from home. We had that adventure together for the first four or five years.

Then I just felt like that’s when this work and family tension started really coming into play more was, okay, now she’s home raising the kids, and my schedule’s not slowing down. That really was the tension that the song “Lead Me” came out of.

I remember coming home, probably seven or eight years after we were on the road and probably about 2008. We were in that point where we were figuring out where things were going with this. Like, things are still growing, but are they growing fast enough for us to keep pursuing this dream?

Dave Wilson: This Valentine’s Day, what if you skipped the roses? Okay, that’s fine. Maybe not. And you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer. The ones you were secretly too scared to have.

Ann Wilson: *Marriage After Dark* is FamilyLife’s newest podcast where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring intimacy. Yes, the stuff you never ask your pastor or your friends. And for more, go to familylife.com/marriageafterdark because intimacy shouldn’t stay in the dark.

Matt Hammitt: I just remember walking into the door after a long couple weeks away and Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear: “We need to talk.”

Dave Wilson: That’s when I run.

Matt Hammitt: And we did. In the cycle of conflict that we were in, it was really difficult for me I think in that moment to not feel defensive. And that’s just the nature of it, right? You’re like, “Oh yeah, we need to talk? Well, yeah, we do need to talk. I’ve got some things to say, too.” That’s how you feel initially.

Ann Wilson: Let’s hear the side. Sarah, what was going on with you? How many kids did you have at the time?

Sarah Hammitt: We were on baby number two, so we had already had another child. Matt and I, we really like each other. We enjoy... we’re best friends. We’re very emotionally connected. When we’re good, we’re great. Our issue is conflict management. That’s really only ever been our issue is conflict management.

Dave Wilson: That’s not a big deal. Just conflict.

Sarah Hammitt: No big deal. Outside of conflict, everything’s perfect. I mean, we love each other, but I just felt like being in a band, it’s like it dictated everything. So if the guys needed him on the road for 30 days, our salary didn’t change, but his schedule changed.

So it wasn’t like, okay, you’re going to go out and bust, do five more shows this month and that is going to benefit us how? It didn’t. It just benefited a business. So it was really hard to let him go all the time.

And then when he was home, I think he... like I said, we were really young when we got married and the more I reflect, I think we didn’t leave and cleave properly maybe in some ways. I think he would come home maybe with some expectations and I would also have expectations and then we were just disappointed every time he came home.

Ann Wilson: I’m thinking of our listeners who their spouse has a job and it’s becoming overwhelming for either the husband or the wife.

Dave Wilson: I mean, this is our marriage. I’m not on the road, but I’m gone a lot and she’s really resentful.

Ann Wilson: And even when you’re home sometimes, you’re not present.

Dave Wilson: I don’t know about you, she’s talking about me now. I’m just saying I was just thinking about all of us with our spouses and expectations and the way that goes. It’s hard to know how to navigate that when you’re disappointed, when you feel like, “Wait, you’re not living out your end of the deal.”

Sarah Hammitt: I was resentful about his attitude when he would come home. It wasn’t that he was gone. I was fine with him being gone. I had a mom and a dad and his parents were around. I had help. I didn’t like his attitude when he came home.

Dave Wilson: What was it? What’s his attitude?

Sarah Hammitt: Like your disposition, meaning I didn’t like that you weren’t fully present. Or you were frustrated, or you had anxiety or you were carrying all... maybe it wasn’t attitude. I’m sorry, maybe that’s not the right word.

Matt Hammitt: I remember one of the main things she said to me when she wanted to talk that day. And by the way, I will say as much as we were in that conflict in that moment, one of the miracles of this moment that the song came out of was that I think God really helped in that moment me to just be quiet and listen and actually hear what she was saying to me.

And I do believe that God also gave her the grace in that moment to say it in a way that was full of grace as well.

Ann Wilson: Let’s hear what it sounded like.

Sarah Hammitt: And when I say “attitude,” I mean his disposition. Like he came home with all the heavy weight of every person in his life who told him the saddest story they had. The weight of carrying a huge band and all of their families’ salaries and insurance. And he’s got to make art that will sell albums.

I mean, he had so much weight and pressure on his back. So I understand he had a ton. But when he was home, I think he needed to escape probably mentally. But then he would escape from us. Does that make sense?

Matt Hammitt: I remember her saying, “It’s like you’re here, but you’re not here. Thank you for providing for us because we’re paying our bills at that time,” even though we didn’t have a ton of money. It was getting better. And she’s like, “But I need you emotionally and spiritually to be present here and lead us in that way.”

I mean, in some ways, that’s the longing of every wife’s heart.

Dave Wilson: I remember one time I walked in the door and again, I’m not on the road like you, but I was very busy starting a church and it’s growing. I remember our boys were little. I walked in the door, this before cell phones. Think about that. There was no distraction like a cell phone.

I walk in the door and Austin our youngest yells, “Daddy’s home!” and Ann’s in the kitchen and she goes, “Yeah, he’s standing there but he’s not home yet.”

Matt Hammitt: Yeah, that type of vibe, yeah.

Dave Wilson: And of course the kids like, “What do you mean? He’s standing...” and I’m like, I’m hearing what she’s saying. And she was right. And I probably wasn’t going to be there for maybe the whole day even though I’m there.

Sarah Hammitt: That’s exactly right and it was constantly that. It was constantly that.

Dave Wilson: Well, what a great day with Matt and Sarah. I just love these guys. I love how different they are. I love Sarah’s honesty and Matt’s honesty.

And the story we’ve been getting about their life is in Matt’s book *Lead Me* and you can get it at familylifetoday.com. Click on the show notes and go buy that book. I’m telling you what, it’s everybody’s story because that tension of going from good intentions to action is a challenge for all of us.

Ann Wilson: We know life is full of challenges and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn’t that true?

Dave Wilson: That is true. And as a FamilyLife partner, your monthly gift helps bring the truth into homes every single day through podcasts, events, and resources.

So let’s make a lasting difference together. Become a partner today. Just go to familylifetoday.com and click the donate button.

Ann Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.