FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

All right, so if you could describe our home, especially when the boys were in the home, what would be the word?

Speaker 2

Chaos.

Speaker 1

Chaos. Craziness.

Speaker 2

Crazy beautiful chaos. How's that?

Speaker 1

Was it beautiful?

Speaker 2

Yeah. Now I can look back and know, yes, it's really beautiful.

Speaker 1

And now it's just quiet and beautiful.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's a little depressing at times.

Speaker 1

It's pretty quiet and it's pretty beautiful because there's not much mess.

Speaker 3

Foreign.

Speaker 1

Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 2

And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us@familylife today.com. this is Family life today.

Speaker 1

But today we're going to talk about a sacred home.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I like Jennifer Pepito.

Speaker 1

She is sitting here. Flew all the way from California.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Jennifer, welcome to fame of life. Have you ever been here? Never.

Speaker 3

No. I'm so excited to be here. I was telling Bobby. We showed the Jesus film in a little migrant village and it ended in Mexico years, like maybe 20 years ago.

Speaker 2

That's so cool.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And how did it go?

Speaker 3

I mean, it was a long time ago. I think it was great. In my recollection, people were interested. It was a small village, but yeah, to introduce them to Jesus.

Speaker 1

I mean, we're talking about sacred home, but you're sort of on sacred ground.

Speaker 3

So true.

Speaker 1

I mean, think about it. This is where consecrated to the Lord.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

Pretty cool.

Speaker 2

But talk about sacred home. You have seven.

Speaker 3

I do.

Speaker 2

Children.

Speaker 3

We're on a trip here with my son, who's 16, and that's my youngest child, and my husband. And so the other night we were in the hotel looking at baby pictures with him.

Speaker 1

Oh, wow.

Speaker 3

And so then we started looking at our family pictures.

And I get what you're saying. Like, my kids are pretty much grown up. They're 16 to 31. And so it is so different. There's still a lot of activity. I have a grandchild around every other week quite a bit.

But, oh, those days went so fast, Ann. And we looked.

Speaker 2

No, the hours did not go fast. It felt like a day was a million years. But then you look back and like, wait, it's over. It's true what they say. You know when the people say, oh, it goes so fast. Enjoy it.

Speaker 1

You blink.

Speaker 3

It's so true. Because I have a lot of kids and it still went fast. I still look back and would love to rewind and just enjoy those little people a little bit more.

Speaker 2

And you homeschooled.

Speaker 3

I do.

Speaker 2

I want to put you On a pedestal right now. Seven kids that you've homeschooled. That's remarkable.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So what all. Tell our listeners what all you do, because I know you wrote Mothering by the book.

Speaker 3

Yeah, my first book was really about overcoming fear. And so in a way, I air my dirty laundry in that one so that you can see, like, if I can do it, anybody can.

And then *Habits for a Sacred Home* is all about developing a rule of life and daily practices that can help us weather just the trials of life, because life is hard.

But I also have a podcast, the *Restoration Home Podcast*, and a community that goes along with that where we support moms in that habit acquisition because it's not easy to make those steps toward a more peaceful and sacred life on our own.

Speaker 1

Now, have you always been that entrepreneurial? I mean, you do a lot of things. And I found out just before we turned on the mics, you got married in your 16.

Speaker 3

No, 17. 17.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Don't subtract a year from that early age. But I was a stay-at-home mom for a long time, and we were actually in a church culture that really discouraged women from doing anything besides that.

It was even kind of frowned upon to maybe have a blog or something. So I started blogging my missionary stuff.

Speaker 1

Do you feel like you're like, Yes.

Speaker 3

I was like doing, you know, I spoke at a homeschool conferences. I taught a bread baking class pre Y2K to help people prep to be able to bake their own bread.

Speaker 2

That's awesome.

Speaker 3

But I didn't start my business until 2016. Before that, I had been writing. I interviewed Elizabeth Elliott for a small magazine. It was just a written, back-and-forth email exchange. Sadly, I didn't get to actually talk to her in person.

So I've been dabbling for a while, but my business is only about 10 years old.

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 2

But this topic, when you talk about a sacred home, you're not saying, I.

Speaker 1

Want to know these hats and you're.

Speaker 2

Not saying, it's perfect.

Speaker 3

No, no. And who could be perfect? Like, none of us without Jesus could be perfect. So I would definitely not want to put people off, but the word sacred is really about being consecrated.

And I think for all of us as believers, like our lives, our homes, our children, we would say we're consecrated to the Lord.

Speaker 2

What's that mean?

Speaker 3

Dedicated, like for him, you know, like it says in the Word, in Him, we live and move and have our being. And I think that really changes the whole perspective because then instead of identifying ourselves by how chaotic our present circumstances are, or identifying ourselves by the mistakes we make, we can say, my home is dedicated to God. We are consecrated to him.

And so, despite the pain and struggle of today, I'm going to forgive myself. I'm going to forgive my children, and tomorrow's gonna be a fresh day. But here's the goal. Like, here are the habits to work on.

And, you know, the book is based on the Rule of St. Benedict.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

Because we had kind of loved St. Francis of Assisi, we went to Assisi, Italy, one year for Christmas.

But I hadn't really read much about St. Benedict, except a guy wrote this book about how his rule could be used today to sort of bring more structure to our lives. The book was written more for almost intellectuals.

I thought, this is so hopeful, because in 2020, in California, life was a little crazy.

Speaker 2

I mean, it was really during the pandemic days.

Speaker 3

Yes, the pandemic. And it was sad. It was chaotic. It was really stressful, I think, for a lot of us.

Like, so many moms all of a sudden had to have their kids at home all the time who weren't used to that. We didn't know how dangerous it was.

It felt kind of like the world was ending, in a sense.

Speaker 1

Oh, I remember when I got a package at my front door at the beginning of the pandemic. I'm like, can I touch it?

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

We walked it down.

Speaker 1

Like, we can't touch it.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

You know, it felt like the end of the world.

Speaker 3

Right. And then I read about St. Benedict, who lived during the fall of Rome, and, you know, the pagans were overtaking the land and sacking Rome and all this crazy stuff. He developed a rule of life—simple little things like stability and stewardship and prayer. Just simple habits.

Many people say that the monastic movement saved civilization because while everyone was kind of going to ruin, they were in their monastery still scribbling down the scriptures, keeping bees, and growing gardens, in a sense, saving civilization.

And so that idea that mothers in their homes, reading to their children, having dinner around the table, loving their husbands—these are actually very countercultural actions that have revolutionary civilization-saving power and benefits.

Speaker 2

To the children and the home and the whole atmosphere of the home.

Speaker 3

Absolutely. And things that, you know, a lot of people can't conceive of anymore.

Like, a lot of people don't look their children in the eyes or they don't have a conversation with their children. They don't work on their marriage. They don't cook a meal and sit around the table, which is proven to lower the risk of drug abuse and lower the risk of obesity.

Like basic, simple sort of old-fashioned practices have all these really life-changing powers.

Speaker 2

And Jennifer, you're working with and talking to young moms all the time. What are the things they're feeling or dealing with or struggling with as young moms?

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think there's a lot of hope in the air right now. I feel like we are, in a way, in America on the verge of a reformation of sorts.

But I think that moms are always struggling with fear, honestly, like, I'm not doing enough guilt. The world is scary. You know, can we get over this situation? Can we get through this situation?

I think there's a lot of fear.

Speaker 2

What should I do with my kids? Should I homeschool them? Should I put them in public school? Is it safe to do that? Are they safe to be at their friend's house?

Speaker 1

I don't think dads have that much.

Speaker 2

You don't?

Speaker 1

We have fear, but it's different.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

From what you two just said, I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking about my work, I'm thinking about the paycheck, I'm thinking about. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And with seven, you're thinking about each individual child. We all do as moms. Like, how are they doing? Are they stressing? Are they Maybe we're thinking, oh, she's.

Speaker 3

Got it, you know, and especially, like, as they grow, it doesn't. I don't want to scare any young moms listening, but the mental load doesn't diminish as they get older because there's less control.

That's one thing I talk about in the book is like, you sort of have to have nerves of steel to parent teens and young adults because no longer can you physically move them from place to place or constantly know exactly what's happening.

And so it's a walk of faith.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And I bet you said this to young moms, because I've said it too. It's like God's not surprised by where we are in the culture and what's happening in the world. He's already equipped you as a mom to deal with all the things that are going on in your home and in your community.

I think when people are living in so much fear and are afraid for us, like for the grandkids that are coming up, it's important to remember that God knows exactly who they are, what they need, and how they will impact society. The practicality of all the things you're saying brings hope to a family. It brings hope to a mom, like, "Oh, here are some things that I can do."

It's a reminder of the incredible influence we have as moms. I think it's fascinating. I loved going through this whole thing. The ideas in each chapter are so good. It's such a good reminder, especially for our culture today.

Speaker 3

Yeah. James K.A. smith says, we live in an unshakable kingdom. The kingdom is not in trouble, and neither are we. And I feel like we're constantly having to realign our minds with that truth.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 3

That we live in an unshakable kingdom. And sometimes it is just those small habits because, you know, when we're in fear, we're activating fight and flight.

You know, we're going into a part of our brain that's not relational, that can't bring hope to our children. And the problem is, the more afraid we are, the more our children think that they're the cause of our unhappiness or that they're the cause of our fear, that they're the problem and they're.

Speaker 2

Thinking, should I be afraid?

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And it's not even enough to fake it, in a way. And that's the. I mean, that's why we really do need, like, I love the episodes you guys have been doing with Nan Deal and Deborah Folletta, because it's not enough to fake it.

Like, we really have to get to the bottom sometimes of where's the lie? Or where's the toxic thought? I loved what Ron was saying about learning to replace that lie with truth, because we sometimes have to talk ourselves into being joyful and happy and showing our kids that there's hope in the world, you know, and having that sort of stability.

That's one of the habits I talk about, is just having stability, even if you do have to fake it a little bit. Getting to that point where you can bring that hope and peace to the atmosphere because you are believing the word of God over your own toxic thoughts.

Speaker 2

That's really good.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I love the thought that, you know, you said earlier, sacred is consecrated because it means that my home's gonna look different. It's set apart, it's consecrated.

I had a pastor that was in some country where you could literally be arrested and killed for praying, like, even before a meal. He said a lot of us pastors were there, and, like, we wanted to bless the meal but didn’t know how to do it. So he came up with this idea: we’ll just hold our drink up, our lemonade, our iced tea, and we’ll go for the king. That was their way to literally consecrate the meals for the king.

So it's like your home for the king. Right. And so you have these habits. Let's talk about them. So the first one.

Speaker 2

Wait, I have. Let me say this. Cause I think it's a really good question. No, I like this because you say this.

How can we as a family be a light in a dark world? Every single mom, every single dad is thinking that we want that.

Because I want to create a movement of mothers. This is you. I want to create a movement of mothers who are nurturing sacred homes that offer hope and restoration.

Speaker 1

That was good. You should have cut me off. That was good.

Speaker 2

And every single mom is identifying and saying yes and amen to that. And so then we get into the habits that are super practical, too.

Speaker 1

Well, give us your spin on that. Is that sort of the mantra of your home? Like, we want to be a light for sure.

Speaker 3

Absolutely. Yes. And I am really. You know, we can't control our kids.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 3

Like, I have learned, I cannot control my kids. But I am excited that my children love the Lord and are doing their best to follow him.

But you talked about being a light. And I think that, you know, when you look at the life of St. Benedict. Because I read a biography of him almost at the end of writing this whole book. First I read the Rule and I read stuff about him. And then I read this little biography.

And he actually went into a cave for like, three years, I think. What? Yes. And just was seeking God during those three years. And then after that, he came out and wrote the Rule.

I think it's really important to know because I feel like there was a movement in the 80s to have sacred homes. Really to have godly homes and godly structures. But a lot of it was based on behavior only and not on an internal change of the heart.

Speaker 2

It was more external.

Speaker 3

External, yeah. And so then you had these parents who were very disciplined and created disciplined home. But there's a lot of falseness beneath that, and kids can see through that.

Speaker 2

I think it led to legalism, a.

Speaker 3

Lot of legalism, and then disconnection in families, a lot of brokenness. I think a lot of what we've been dealing with even has been maybe based on some of that hypocrisy and the hurt and the bitterness.

But when you make being with God, attunement to God the first thing, and then you tack the habits onto a properly placed identity, then I think the habits really start creating fruit. And that's a big part of, like, what we do in my community is that we're working on these habits every month.

Some of the habits we're working on are habits of connection. So, like, looking our children in the eyes so they know that we love them, at the same time as working on chore chart training, so they know what to do with their time.

So it's like there's this constant sort of balancing act where we have to be keeping our eyes on Jesus and connecting with him. We have the power to put into place the habits. If we have the experience with God, but no habits, then we won't get anywhere. But if we have the habit and no experience with God, the habits will produce no fruit.

Speaker 2

Wow, that's really good.

Speaker 1

That's beautiful and so true. Our one son is a preacher, and he says you gotta focus on the root, not the fruit. Yeah, the fruit comes from the root. From your, you know, your rootedness in Christ.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So how do you do that in this crazy seven kids, busy wife.

Speaker 2

Oh, let's go through some of the habits.

Speaker 1

No, I just want to hit on the root part again because.

Speaker 2

Okay. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1

The saint goes to a cave for three years.

Speaker 3

I didn't go to a cave.

Speaker 1

I didn't. We can't. I'm not gonna.

Speaker 2

We can't even go to the bathroom by ourselves.

Speaker 3

But actually, I did have a cave moment because I love being a mom, and I have been, like, a homeschool student the whole time through.

Like, I was so into it, but I did have a misplaced identity in my early years of parenting. I love my kids.

A lot of it was done out of love, but there was also a sense of earning my value as a person by being a good mom and a good homeschooler.

Speaker 1

And how they came out, how they came out.

Speaker 3

And so my oldest daughter, when she was around 16 years old, developed an eating disorder. We were in a culture of parents who, if you had problems, you didn't talk about it. Everyone was perfect. You had to be perfect. It was like, be perfect and sin, not like, it was so intense. When that happened, I did go into a cave. It was like, I have obviously failed as a mom. I don't know what I'm doing.

There were a few books that were very transformational. One was a Brennan Manning book. There was another one called *How to Stop the Pain*. I just started to get a better understanding of the grace of God, of being hidden in Christ, of being clothed in his righteousness. That just really changed everything. Because then I could keep on trying to attain the habits. I'm a visionary, but sometimes the systems in place are a struggle for me. I really love making my kids happy.

So sometimes making all the habits happen, I'm not perfect at this at all, but being attuned to God is so important to me. I'm not hating myself every day if I make a mistake. I'm able to start every day from square one, like, slate clean. I'm a child. I'm gonna throw paint at the wall and see what sticks. I'm gonna try my best to pray with my kids today and lead with patience and compassion.

But if we make a mistake, I'm not gonna hate myself and condemn myself and give up. Because what is the shame? The cycle starts. They don't say, "Oh, I made a mistake, and I'll try again tomorrow." They say, "I made a mistake. I am a mistake. I can't do this. I'm a terrible mom." All these lies start infiltrating the way they think, which makes them not try, look grim, not be fun with the kids, not be happy, and blame their spouse. You know, all kinds of things happen from that small mistake that throws the whole thing off the rails.

Speaker 1

How'd it go with your daughter?

Speaker 3

She's in recovery. She's amazing. She just graduated with her Juris Doctorate. She co-hosts my podcast with me, so she's on a lot of those episodes.

We talk a lot about, you know, just inviting Jesus to comfort you in some of those places where you have made mistakes. And she's had to invite Jesus to comfort her in some of the places where I did put too much pressure on.

I've had to do the same for myself because my issues of perfectionism and performance didn't start in a vacuum either.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Let me ask you, because I'm helping to lead a small group of women, like 15 young women in their 20s and 30s. Most of them have kids. You had seven.

And so they're saying, how do I spend time with Jesus when I've gotten these kids and I'm not sleeping at night and I have to go to bed early because they're gonna be up before I am?

Speaker 1

Yeah, you took my question. I mean, I was literally sitting there thinking, I've got two moms in the room.

Speaker 2

How do you do?

Speaker 1

How did you been in that world? How do you? I wanna hear from both of you. Cause you had to do it. You had to do it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

We only had three. We're like low life. You had seven.

Speaker 2

This is the root system. And I knew that, like, I can't do this apart from Walking with Jesus. So how did you manage that?

Speaker 3

Well, I do actually think not to plug homeschooling. I do feel like homeschooling did help me with my spiritual disciplines, because for 27 years, every day, I did what with my children.

And so we would get up in the morning, we would read the Bible together, we would pray together, we'd sing songs with my homeschool curriculum, the peaceful press.

We read through the Narnia books, which are all these beautiful allegories of Jesus. We read these heroic missionary stories together. We read Amy Carmichael books together in our homeschool.

So I feel like my.

Speaker 2

This is why all these people are mentioned in your book?

Speaker 3

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I've been reading out loud to my children for 27 years.

A lot of these books, like Corrie ten Boom, we read out loud. Sabina Wurmbrand, we read these books together.

And so I feel like my spiritual development happened alongside my children.

Speaker 2

Interesting.

Speaker 3

And there's a little book called the *Domestic Monastery* by Ronald Rolheiser. He talks about how the mother at home who is changing diapers and doing the dishes for her family is as much consecrated to God and as much in Christian service and communion as any nun in a convent. It kind of mirrors what practicing the presence, Brother Lawrence, I think, wrote about—just really inhabiting and being with God throughout your day.

I have a business coach, and he told me to write down my spiritual disciplines. I was, like, taking a walk in nature, playing with my grandbaby, making dinner for the family. Everything I do is done unto the Lord, and I'm enjoying Him as I do it. Like, wow, look at the birds today. God, thanks for making the birds.

I don't have a lot of time. I could never get up before my kids. People say, "Oh, get up before your kids have quiet time." The earlier I got up, the earlier they got up; the radar was on. As soon as I was awake, somebody came wandering in with their cute little stocking feet, and the quiet time was over.

So, quiet time really had to be sort of an ongoing practice of His presence. I do think homeschooling was a big advantage in that because I was able to model for my children spiritual disciplines. Together, we were able to really enjoy being with God.

Speaker 1

Now, do you think that's easy for moms to do? Is she like a saint, or is that achievable for most moms? Can they do the practicing, the presence? The spiritual disciplines are in the rule of life?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think so. I think we all can. I mean, Jesus wouldn't give us a job. That's impossible, you know?

And so for me, it was the same. Jennifer. My kids went to school, but especially in the preschool years, I was struggling. Like, how do I do this?

Cause they're just so needy. You're holding a baby all the time.

Speaker 1

And by the way, your husband's needy, too. So he's over here.

Speaker 3

What about me?

Speaker 2

He's getting a little shocked at our first way. But to talk to God all day long about everything.

I learned in the morning, like, my first hello is to Jesus. My first surrender is like, I give you my life today, Lord. As I'm getting up to get a baby or to nurse a baby, I give you my life today, Lord. I surrender everything to you today, Lord.

Then the same when I go to bed. He's my life, Lord. Thank you for today. Thank you that you were with me every step.

But I'm praying all day long about everything, about my frustrations, often out loud. I'm mad, Jesus. Like, I'm so mad I don't know what I'm doing.

To take your thoughts captive and even telling. Confessing means telling the truth. This is what I'm going through. God, I'm struggling with whatever it is. That's what he wants—a relationship with us.

To allow our kids to see it and to pray out loud, to pray with them. It's just living every minute in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And I love that you got that, because I think it is achievable for every mom. I think we're always thinking about something.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

That's the key, I think, is just to. To learn to redirect our thoughts. Because I spent a lot of time as a young mom thinking about, oh, nobody loves me. Oh, this is so hard.

Speaker 2

Oh, me too.

Speaker 3

Why is my child not sleeping? You know what I mean? There's a lot of, like, God must hate me because my child's not sleeping at night or, you know, whatever it was. So my thoughts were very loose, you know, very undisciplined.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And I think there is a call to, you know, take every thought captive to the knowledge of God. And so it's sometimes a learning Process. I agree, but it's available to all of us.

Speaker 1

I mean, that's so. Honestly, for a husband dad to hear that from two moms. Because in some sense, sacred can sound so clean and perfect.

Tidied up and sacred is messy and chaotic, but it's set apart. You know what I'm saying?

So what you're describing is, like, the chaos of being a mom and living real life with your kids every day is still a place where you're set apart to be able to have an attunement with God in the middle of it all.

Speaker 2

I've shared this before, but I think it's appropriate right now. Again, one of the things I've encouraged moms to do is to take your home back for the kingdom for Jesus.

And so I'm a visual person. When I did a conference, we handed out painting stir sticks, and I gave everyone that stirring stick. I had them write a verse on it—like a verse that would capture their vision and their hope for their family, for their kids. Write the verse on it and then plant it, like, tap it into the ground, and then take that ground for King Jesus.

I think a lot of people have seen the war room with Priscilla Shire and how she takes her home back and prays over every room, declaring that this home belongs to you, to me. That's a part of being consecrated or set apart.

Like, take this home back, or maybe it already is His. But again, surrender to Lord Jesus and let Him be the one who rules and reigns in that home to be consecrated.

Speaker 1

We have paint sticks all through our front yard. I have to move them every time I walk.

Speaker 2

Women, like, show me, like, they're tapping it into the ground. It was awesome. So give us an application for our moms that are listening right now as we close.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And I love that you did the paint sticks. We do something similar when we move into a new home. We will pray over it. We will anoint the doorpost with oil. We will walk the perimeter. And that's actually. There's some biblical. And also in ancient history, they would mark the boundaries of a town, like, plow around it.

And so I think there's something very significant about just dedicating your home, even if you haven't done it yet, just praying over it. We would even say a little prayer of repentance, like, "God, I repent for anything that's happened here before we dwelled. But we claim this ground for you now."

And, you know, so I think that's a good place to start, is just recognizing then take charge of your home. Like I think sometimes we see other people in our home, especially for moms with teens and young adults or husbands who aren't on the same page. We think, "Oh, they wanna just play video games all day or they just wanna watch these garbage shows."

Well, you just start taking control of your thoughts and you start having spiritual disciplines. You start developing habits of prayer and rest and stewardship. And then, like, trust the Lord with those other people, but don't let their behavior be an excuse for you not to try.

Speaker 2

That's good. That's really good.

Speaker 1

That's a good service.

Speaker 2

And tomorrow we're going to get specifically into all those.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we haven't even started on one of the habits. I know.

Speaker 2

But we will come back tomorrow.

Speaker 1

And let me just say this, we would love to give you this book for any amount of donations.

So if you send a donation to Family Life today, we will send you this book as a thank you for that.

So it's familylifetoday.com or call us at 1-800-358-6329.

Speaker 2

Hey! If you need more help, you can go to familylife.com/parentinghelp.

Again, you can visit familylife.com/parentinghelp.

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