FamilyLife Today®

Luke Middendorf: Actually, it was pretty silent after we shared the news, and then there were tears. And just the discernment to be silent in the moment and thinking about all the times where Jesus was in a pressure cooker situation and he remained silent.

And we can be like Jesus sometimes in those moments to just let the moment be and let God work through the other people in the room, including our own kids who are early in their process of trusting Christ.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I’m Ann Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com.

Dave Wilson: This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann Wilson: Well, we have the new president of FamilyLife back with us in the studio!

Dave Wilson: Well, not that new now, he's nine months in.

Ann Wilson: Yeah, but he has never been with us on FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: First time ever. Luke and Kristina Middendorf. And if you’ve ever had a big change happen or maybe a big decision that you’ve had to make...

Ann Wilson: If you haven't, you're going to have one.

Dave Wilson: But I think this episode's going to be really helpful just to help you think, how do I make this decision and discern God's voice?

Ann Wilson: Yeah. When you got married you came right on staff?

Kristina Middendorf: We did. We were on staff with the campus ministry at a small school in Minnesota for three years. And then God called us to Athletes in Action for the last 12 years at the University of Minnesota, which is our alma mater.

And we were living the dream. We thought we would live in Minneapolis our whole life. We had family in town, friends in town, our kids were thriving. We loved everything.

Luke Middendorf: Yeah, it’s where we went to school. It’s where I proposed to her. It’s where our kids were born. It’s where we saw many people come to Christ, and students and neighbors in our home. And then we got a call.

Dave Wilson: And then the phone rings. So what happened? You get a call and what?

Luke Middendorf: We got a call from someone who had nominated us for this open position in a ministry called FamilyLife. And initially I kind of chuckled under my breath as I heard this person sharing, "This is why we could see you being a great fit. The ministry you guys are leading with students who have graduated and who are now newly married, they're having kids. This is just a part of who you are, even though you’ve been serving with a different ministry. You should really consider interviewing."

And I was sort of laughing because of what Kristina said. We're so happy, we're content, and we don't want this. And yet over time God really started to shift our hearts and reveal, "I’ve been preparing you for this all along. You just need to trust me."

Kristina Middendorf: And it wasn't even that we didn't want it. It was also, we just kind of felt like, us? We have not written a book on parenting, we don't have kids out of the house and grown and we're looking back at life with wisdom to share. We are in the trenches of marriage and parenthood. Surely you want someone older and more experienced than us?

And we kept saying that throughout the process. And they’re like, "What we want is you." And we said, "All we have to offer is we can come alongside people and say, 'You're struggling? Me too. Let’s look at Jesus and walk towards him together.'" That’s what we have to offer and bring. And apparently that's what FamilyLife wants in this season. And we can do that.

Ann Wilson: So Kristina, when Luke comes to you and you're so satisfied with your life, everything's going great, and he says this, what are you thinking?

Kristina Middendorf: I thought this isn't going to go anywhere. This is just out of left field. But those moments where you're like, I think I need to pay attention to this because this is not the story we're writing for our life, but maybe this is God? I don't know. So we will pray. We will commit to praying about this.

And it wasn't a fast process. This was months of prayer and God loosening that tight control I had on our family lives in Minneapolis. We go to this school, we do life with these people. And God just started to open our hands to, "But what if there's more? What if I have more for you in your story?"

And we began to see that our trajectory really was pointing us towards this family ministry. Though we were working day in and day out with college athletes, those athletes graduate, and they get married, and they have kids. And we've done it long enough that we've seen that happen a couple times through.

Luke would officiate those weddings, we would do the premarital counseling, they would come back and say, "Okay, I’ve got toddlers and babies and I’m pulling my hair out, what do I do?" I'm like, "I only have a few years ahead of you, but I’ll give you what I can."

And so we started to see how our ministry really was family-centric. And we’ve always believed really strongly in doing ministry out of our home and having our kids be a part of that and bringing the athletes to our house, not just going to them on campus, but integrating those two worlds. And so we just started to see, okay, this might not be as far-fetched as we initially thought.

Luke Middendorf: And we didn't know many people who serve full-time with FamilyLife on staff, but we had a number of really positive moments with the ministry as we were married. We've been to two Weekend to Remembers that really were impactful in our marriage as we started to have kids. Those were really important moments for us.

We've read through a number of the resources in our married life: the resources about biblical manhood, resources about marriage, and even FamilyLife Today has been meaningful to us. I remember being in the car, driving around our first year of marriage and listening to FamilyLife Today on the radio for you as well when you drive to Bible studies.

So there were moments along the way where as we look back, we could tell God had been preparing us and giving us what we need. But certainly we were in a place and a posture of we need him more than ever. We're fully dependent on you, Jesus, for this next step. And we trust you.

Dave Wilson: Now, how did you get to the place where you were sure of this call? Like, this is God's call for us? Because our listeners are like, "How do I know God's will? How do I make a decision and know this is what God wanted?"

Kristina Middendorf: That was what we were saying! We asked a lot of people. I feel like we had months of information and wisdom and input and prayer, and yet to make that jump and cross that line. For us, the cost was so high. This wasn't like take the role and stay where you are. This was take the role and uproot your entire life and kids and move to this new place. And so we were really slow to make that decision.

In the end, we went to our pastor and basically said what you just said, "How do I discern God's voice? Here's all the information." We kind of verbally vomited it on him.

Luke Middendorf: We've trained dozens, hundreds of students over the years on that same question as they're thinking about career and "Do I end my sport?" and all these things. We've led Bible studies on that. But it's different when you're in it. How do we do this again? This is really big.

Kristina Middendorf: And of course, he didn't have a prescriptive answer necessarily, but what he did say was, through the Bible, we see when God calls people there's a clear external call and an internal call. The external call in your case seems to be very clear. All the signs are pointing towards this is where you're going. But we're trying to now discern the internal call. Is God actually asking Luke and Kristina to say yes to this?

He shared part of his own story in a moment where he was discerning a decision, and God said to him in a moment of prayer, "What if you could have more of me if you said yes to this thing?" that he did not want to say yes to in his flesh. And when he said those words, I felt something shift in me internally.

When my perspective is not my comfort, my home, my friends, my family—all these things that are good, those are good desires that God wants to satisfy—but as a believer, more than that, I need to want Jesus. And if more of Jesus is promised when I get out of my comfort and that mushy middle place and I have to depend on him because we don't yet have friends here, we don't know what school our kids will go to, we don't know where we're going to live in this new city, all these things that are question marks, that’s where we need God. We're dependent on him.

When I framed it that way, it was like the answer was just obvious all of a sudden. It was like, this is more of God, okay, that’s what we’ll step into.

Dave Wilson: Was it the same for you, Luke?

Luke Middendorf: It took me a little bit of time after that conversation, and I think it was the next week when we had been offered the role. So there were some signs towards the external call, and then it came. And I just took some time in solitude, fasting, prayer. It wasn't long, but even just a day focused towards, "Lord, what are you saying?"

And for me, what happened was connecting with more of God and seeing that he’s been leading us in this direction, and to go the other way is disobedient to him. I still had a choice. He gave me the choice to make, but I’m choosing him. I’m choosing his call and the unknowns of what that might mean in the next year.

Dave Wilson: In some ways I’m listening to your story and I think of Peter and the disciples in the boat. I don't know if you've ever read John Ortberg’s book, *If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat*. That was a book that changed me because so often the mushy middle's the boat. It's comfortable. You’ve got to take that step. So that's the step you took.

I love what John said in the book. He says there are boat potatoes and there are water walkers. Are you a boat potato, meaning I’m going to hold onto my boat because it's comfortable and I know what the salary is and I know what the 401k is and I know what my future looks like and my kids will be okay in this school and this ministry? And it's like, no, Jesus is over here and he's saying come. And it's scary and you've just done that. How are you feeling?

Kristina Middendorf: There are days where it is the exhilarating, "Oh, we're following Jesus, I know that in my gut for sure." And then there are days where I lose sight of that and you feel you're down and now I’m treading water because my eyes are not on Jesus. They're on all that is still not where I want it to be nine months in, or all that’s still unsure, or looking back on what was and what we don't have. So it’s up and down. It's been up and down.

Luke Middendorf: Honestly, we were in an airport with our kids just a few days ago flying back to Orlando, and our gate said Orlando. The gate next to us said Minneapolis. And one of our kids whispered in my ear, "I want to get on that plane to Minneapolis. I don't want to go."

And honestly, part of me felt I kind of agree with you because that's the mushy middle, that's the comfort zone. We have family there, I know what it’ll look like. The obedient path isn't a one-time thing. It's the daily moments, it's that moment to say—and I acknowledged with her, "I do feel that too. I would like to get on that plane. But we're going to go together and I’m going to be here with you. We're going to be together as a family. God has good things for us." So the Lord ministers to us through our kids in these processes too.

Dave Wilson: I would say probably the top three things that have changed our marriage the most is when we have led a small group. Not just being in a small group—that's amazing—but when we have led a small group, our marriage changed more than anything else. Anytime you have couples in your home or you're in their home talking about marriage, your marriage is going to get better.

And the thing we always want if we're thinking, "I’m going to have couples in and I want to help them," is I need help helping them. So guess what? That’s what we're about. FamilyLife has tools to help you lead a small group. We call it our Small Group Kits and our workbooks. They are plug-and-play and they are on sale right now—25% off through the end of the month.

You can go to familylifetoday.com and get any one of the studies that you'd like to lead. And again, it's plug-and-play. We'll help you change the world. And who would have thought that being on mission together is one of the things that makes our marriages better? You know who thought of that? God thought of that. It just happens. It's the Gospel. Again, familylifetoday.com.

Ann Wilson: Take us back to the conversation with your kids because I know that as listeners with kids, maybe you feel this call and your kids are like, "What?" How did you serve that up and how did you talk about it with them?

Luke Middendorf: I had very little experience as a kid thinking about moving or having those type of conversations with my family. We've had that as a couple, processing decisions, but Kristina actually had first-hand experience from when she had to move as a kid that she reflected back on.

Kristina Middendorf: I was right between the age of our kids currently when my parents said, "We're moving from Washington State to Wisconsin," which might as well have been another country to me. I didn't know where it was on a map. I just knew cows were there and I didn't want anything to do with that.

That was a traumatic move for me. I was entering middle school. I was so angry for a really long time, and angry at my mom and dad, angry at the circumstances. I believed in my sixth-grade mind that if I was miserable and angry enough, my parents would change their mind. They'd be like, "Oh, we're so sorry, we'll go back." That didn't happen.

And so when this came about and our kids are this age, I just had this moment with God of, "What are you asking me to do? There's no way with my story that I would do that to my children." It was just all too much to handle. And yet God walked me through that and helped me see, because of that, I've actually equipped you to parent them through this moment where you experienced deep pain and I didn't yet know the Lord at that age, and I've equipped you with what you need to do this a different way.

So we let our kids in on the process somewhat early on. They knew this was happening, they knew he was flying to interviews, they knew when he would make it to the next round. It was an open conversation we had with them because we didn't want to spring it on them.

Luke Middendorf: I don't think they believed that this was ever going to happen.

Ann Wilson: So the moment we sat them down was really hard. What did it sound like?

Luke Middendorf: Actually, it was pretty silent after we shared the news, and then there were tears. And just the discernment to be silent in the moment and thinking about all the times where Jesus was in a pressure cooker situation and he remained silent.

We can be like Jesus sometimes in those moments to just let the moment be and let God work through the other people in the room, including our own kids who are early in their process of trusting Christ. But we knew this was a decision God had led us to. We're going as a family, but God will have something uniquely for each of our kids, and it may not be in the same timeline. This is a daily walking it out of obedience.

Kristina Middendorf: I think the temptation as parents is to fix it or to be like, "We're going to be okay, God has us," to say those platitudes and kind of put a Band-Aid on it. And instead we tried to be really intentional to give them space to feel whatever they were feeling and even to let them see, I feel that too. We are making the decision to say yes to what God is asking us to do, and at the same time, the cost is really high and I don't like that.

So we wept with them—and not just in that moment, in the months to come as the waves of grief hit as we experience the last of things. And it has continued in our move as we've grieved what we don't yet have here that we had there. It still comes in waves, but to let them see those emotions do not mean that we're disconnected from God. Actually, God meets us in that and he walks with us and he can handle that. He can handle our pain, our anger, our fear. That's okay.

Luke Middendorf: It's given us an opportunity to keep our eyes open in the months after we moved for how is God going to show up here? We don't know. Like for kids, it's "Who are my friends going to be when I move? Who am I going to hang out with in the neighborhood or who is going to be on my sports teams?"

There was a moment in those first couple of weeks where we had put our kids in some camps right when we moved. We were unpacking boxes and they got to try to meet some kids at these camps where they didn't initially know anyone.

The next week, the first time we checked out a church in Orlando, we opened the car doors and the first noise we heard was, "Brooks!" and that's our son's name. There was a boy who he had met at that camp who was calling out his name. Certainly that was a special moment for him that we talked about later, but it was almost as if the Lord was calling out to us saying, "I’m here. I’ve got you. It's going to be okay." So the Lord ministers to us through our kids in these processes too.

Dave Wilson: What great wisdom you've just shared for parents listening. How to process a hard move decision with your kids is you can't control them, you can't tell them how they should respond. You let them respond and be there, be what they need. If they need a hug, you're hugging. Some parents don't do that. They need a hug, hug and guess what, they're turning away and they're mad at you. Let them be, let them have that time. Way to go.

Ann Wilson: I think as parents—I’m just going to say this personally—my kids can become my idol where I’m making all the decisions of my life, theologically and future-based on what they will feel about it. But I’m going to tell you, I want my kids sometimes to be in the mushy middle, to not feel pain, to just be happy. I think that's just a part of who we are as parents, but it's not the best place for them to be.

I want them to be clinging to Jesus just like I am, but it's easier for me to do than to watch them struggle. That is one of my hardest things. So for you guys to be obedient to God, what an example to your kids. Like mom and dad don't even necessarily at times feel really happy about this and yet they just want to follow Jesus.

Kristina, when you look back on your move as a middle school girl, now do you look at it like, "Hmm?"

Kristina Middendorf: Yes, definitely, seeing all that God did provide. But it doesn't take away that it was hard in the moment. Luke just said to our daughter the other night, "Hard isn't bad. It’s just hard." Sometimes we think anything hard is bad and it means I shouldn't do it. But that's not true. Hard can just be hard and God calls us to do hard things often.

Dave Wilson: Okay, so you're sitting here nine months in. Talk about what you think is the future. Your hopes and dreams.

Ann Wilson: Your dreams about FamilyLife. Where are we headed?

Luke Middendorf: For those of you who are familiar with FamilyLife, what an incredible history. Some people have said, "Do you know the size of the shoes you're stepping into?" and maybe they haven't seen me in person yet, I’m a size 14, so I've got some big ones.

They're speaking to, of course, we've had incredible staff and leadership in FamilyLife—speakers and authors and creators of content and conferences. FamilyLife is a global ministry reaching people all over the world. And here are Luke and Kristina. I’m a Midwest boy stepping into this global organization.

It has been tempting sometimes to think more about who I think others might want me to be instead of who I know God's calling me to be. A unique part of us and this stage of life is we are family with kids at home. We are younger leaders. And that's not accidental by the Lord. It’s actually intentional.

As I am months into the role now, I’m starting to integrate that more into decision-making and conversations about where we're headed, that God has prepared us for this moment as we're dependent on him. We have perspective about the next generation of families that need the Gospel just as much, if not more, than the previous generation.

There’s families and marriages we've ministered to over the years. We can bring those experiences into this role and say, "Hey, what about this new resource we might create?" or "How might we create a new experience?" or "What about taking families on mission trips all over the world just like we've gotten to do?"

So we're bringing that in and we're learning so much through staff who have served here, through our partners who give and pray for the ministry, and even just a few weeks ago, getting to meet some volunteers that help lead events like the Weekend to Remember. These are dedicated people who have full-time jobs and they give of their weekends so that more marriages would trust in Christ and grow in oneness and then be equipped to impact more people.

That's what gets us excited is we've had lots of moments and years of seeing flourishing marriages and flourishing families. We've felt that. It's not always easy, we don't feel that every day, but we know what it does feel like to flourish with the Lord, with each other and with others. That's our dream and our vision for more marriages and families in the U.S. and around the world.

Ann Wilson: I really love that we had Luke and Kristina Middendorf, the new president of FamilyLife, with us today.

Dave Wilson: You're listening to FamilyLife Today. I’m Dave Wilson, and before we're done today, let me just say this. We meet a ton of couples who say FamilyLife helped them when they needed it the most. And that's what being a FamilyLife partner is all about: helping others find that same encouragement and tools that you found right here.

Ann Wilson: And we'd love for you to join us. So click the donate button at familylifetoday.com and become a part today.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported ministry of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.