FamilyLife Today®

Amberly Neese: I think we all are very familiar with the verses "I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. But what we don't think through is he doesn't say, "I'm going to let you know the plans I have for you." He says, "I know them."

If we really know who he is, if we've really spent the time and we've invested in fostering a relationship with him, searching for him like hidden treasure, if we've done those things, then when he says, "I know the plans I have for you," that is enough.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today® where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today®.

Dave Wilson: So today we get to ask some questions, and there's nobody on the planet who asks better questions than you.

Ann Wilson: Why would you say that?

Dave Wilson: Well, there is one person who asks better questions than you. His name is Jesus. But seriously, there's no one like you. Whether it's in an airport with a total stranger, or people in our neighborhood, or friends come over, you are not about you. You are about them, and you ask questions and you draw them out.

Ann Wilson: I think that's one of the reasons we're so drawn to this Bible study that we're going to talk about today.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, what is it?

Ann Wilson: It's called *Untangling Faith: Reclaiming Hope in the Questions Jesus Asked*. And we have Amberly Neese with us today.

Amberly Neese: Yes, and I'm so excited to be here. But I want to just take a minute. That is high praise to say that somebody is a good question asker. That was very kind of him to say. He deserves all of the points. He always gets a lot, but I should give him 50.

Dave Wilson: Well, Amberly, we're going to talk about *Untangling Faith*. I set that up because so much of this book is about the questions that Jesus asked. But before we get there, you travel the country and do what? I know you do humor, but what else?

Amberly Neese: So I do women's retreats. I'm a speaker. But I tour with two national tours with comedy: Aspire Women's Events and the Marriage Date Night Tour. I'm able to share comedy and laughter with couples and ladies. I love doing that. Hopefully they see Jesus in all of that. But I also love doing women's retreats and diving into God's word with ladies. That's such a blessing.

Ann Wilson: And you love Bible study. You love teaching it. You love digging into the Scripture.

Amberly Neese: I do. I didn't think that was going to be my jam. I loved God's word, but at least when I was young, the ladies in my life that could do that, I just thought, "There's no way I could ever do that." Fortunately, God uses the ill-equipped and does great things despite them. So I'm excited about that.

Ann Wilson: Share with our listeners the first time you started teaching. Because it wasn't something you were anticipating.

Amberly Neese: No. When Scott and I were first married, our very first call was two weeks after we got married. We got called to a church in Garden Grove, California. They wanted to put a women's retreat together and they asked me if I would be willing to do it.

I thought, "I'm not sure I'm up for the task." And they said, "That's okay. We don't have anything to pay you, so you'll be worth whatever we're going to pay you, which is zip-a-dee-doo-dah." And I loved it. I loved the diving into God's word and looking at a particular topic. I loved really doing some deep diving.

The whole process was so fantastic. At the end of the weekend, I came home and I was so emotional. I know that's shocking. Sometimes women's retreats are like that. Give them a little bit of Jesus and a lot of tissue because we do have a tendency to get emotional.

But I came home and I just told him I was really overwhelmed. I tried to articulate what I was feeling and I said, "Did you ever watch *Chariots of Fire* when Eric Liddell says when he runs, he feels God's pleasure?" And my husband was like, "Do you want to start running?"

And I'm like, "No! Oh my goodness, no. Get behind me, Satan! That is not what I want to do." I said, "But I felt like I was doing what God wanted me to do, that I was in the right place in the universe." He said, "Well, how can I help?" And I said, "I don't know. I don't even know where to get started."

Ann Wilson: How sweet of him to ask that question, "How can I help?"

Amberly Neese: That got him some points. Zillions of points. I feel really thankful. I really feel so fortunate that my husband is as clear about my calling as I am. And my kids as well. So I feel really thankful for that.

Ann Wilson: Why this Bible study? When you say reclaiming hope in the questions Jesus asked, what's that mean?

Amberly Neese: I have lots of people in my life who are deconstructing their faith. I have lots of friends who are loving their kids and grandkids through jumping off of the faith bus. They just are really struggling. I wanted to practically look at what that looks like and how to give hope to people when it comes to that.

Most Bible studies that I've done, they're written for the sweet church lady who needs encouragement and hope in her heart. But I wanted to write a study for those who were saying, "I am beseeching the Lord on behalf of somebody who's struggling or who's leaving the faith."

I want practical, tactile things that I can do to provide hope. All of my studies I look at from a certain vantage point, and this one is unlike any of them. This six-week study, every single day is a different question that Jesus asked. Not an answer like, tie it up in a pretty little bow and everybody's happy and there's a soundtrack. We don't break into *Oklahoma!* halfway through the study.

It is an unpacking of the questions Jesus asked. Jesus really only answered straight out two questions in the Bible. The rest he often would respond to a question with a question.

Dave Wilson: And God did the same in the Old Testament.

Amberly Neese: Totally! Over 300 questions in the New Testament that Jesus asked. What I think is interesting about that is that we teach kids to be like Jesus in so many ways. This is how you deal with people, this is how you handle this, and this is how you do whatever. But we rarely give them permission to ask questions and to embrace the power of what those can be. Questions can be holy beginnings of journeys.

Dave Wilson: Before we keep going, let me just say this to the listener. Every single day, families around the world are facing real struggles. FamilyLife is here with gospel-centered help and hope. When you become a FamilyLife partner, your monthly support fuels this work.

Ann Wilson: And with your monthly gift, you'll become part of a community that receives insider updates, which is pretty amazing. Who doesn't want to be a part of an insider community? You also get invitations to special events and more. Because together, we're helping families really grow stronger in Christ. So join us.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, just go to familylifetoday.com and tap the donate button at the top of the page. So what's one of the questions that Jesus asked that just tugged at your heart, that you're like, "Oh yeah, this is so good that he asked this question"?

Amberly Neese: I loved studying "Who do you say that I am?" which sounds silly, especially for those of us who are believers and know who Jesus is. However, it was really profound for me. Actually, the week that I was writing that particular chapter, I had gone into the dermatologist. My dad died of skin cancer when he was 51. My sister had major skin cancer surgery. It looks like she has a shark bite on the back of her leg when she was in her early 40s.

I'd gone in and usually my dermatologist is wonderful and did the scan, but this time he said, "There's some places I'm really concerned about." And so there were about nine days. For whatever reason, that's how long it took. In those nine days, I kept hearing that question: "Well, who do you say that I am?"

You'd think that they're unrelated. But do I believe that he's Jehovah Jireh? Do I believe he's the Provider? Do I believe he's the Healer? Do I believe he's the God who works all things for good to those who love him and are called according to his purpose? Do I really believe? Who do you say that I am?

I would say with my mouth, goodness knows, I travel the nation and tell people Jesus is Lord. And he is! But when it comes right down to it, when there are questions in my mind, when my mind was riddled with, "You're going to have cancer. How are your kids going to respond? What's going to happen to your husband? Financially, are you guys in a place?"

I recognized even though I'd been a believer a long time, I still had some unresolved issues when it came to who I really say that he is. Not just with my mouth, but with my life. What does my life say that he is? Does my life say, "Oh yeah, she trusts"?

Ann Wilson: What happened with the cancer? What was the diagnosis?

Amberly Neese: The cancer was that it's fine and all the things were good, and there's still things we need to watch. But more thrilling to me than the diagnosis was the journey that I took in those nine days of really figuring out, really being honest with God about my areas that I'm still holding on to, thinking I'm in control, that I'm large and in charge as we used to say with our kids.

Ann Wilson: It's interesting because just last spring, I had had a mole removed. I asked the doctor, "Will you please take this off? I know you've said it's fine in the past, but I would just like you to take it off."

And so we were here recording and we were having lunch with a guest, and I got a call from my doctor. I said, "Hey, I'm going to step out. I need to get this." And she said, "Hey, so that diagnosis showed that you have melanoma."

I remember that night in bed just asking God, "God, are you here? Do you see this? I know you do. Biblically, theologically, I know that you are with me. But Lord, sometimes I need to be reminded." It's almost like John the Baptist saying, "I know you're the one, but are you the one?"

It's so crazy because a couple days later, I went over to talk to my neighbor because we were going to go out of town. He's this great older man, probably in his 80s, and he said, "Ann, Ann, I need to show you this. Come, come, come."

I said, "What's up?" He said, "I need to show you what happened last night." And he gets out his phone and he's trying to find the picture and he's having struggle finding it.

Amberly Neese: If he can't figure out his phone, I don't think he's photoshopping. Let's be honest.

Ann Wilson: He said, "Last night, I woke up like 3:00 in the morning and I couldn't sleep. I look out and I see your house and I see this angel, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I don't know what it was, but I took a picture of it. Oh, here it is," and he shows me.

And I'm like, "What in the world? Did you photoshop this? What is this?" He said, "What's photoshopping?" And I said, "Will you send this to me?" He said he didn't know how to do that, so I sent it to myself and I showed Dave.

Everybody can say, "Whatever, it's just the clouds." But I'm telling you, this thing to me was like, "Hey, Ann." I knew it in my head, but just that sweet, loving kindness of God saying, "I'm with you. I'm with you in this."

Amberly Neese: And who do you say that I am? And you say, "You are the God who sees and hears." Absolutely.

Dave Wilson: What would your response have been if the melanoma came back not good? I mean, I think I know, but I literally preached the Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego story a couple weeks ago where they say to King Nebuchadnezzar, "We will not bow down to your idol. And if you throw us in the fire, our God will deliver us." They say "will," not "maybe." They say, "He will deliver us. But if he does not, we still will not."

So they had that, "Well, he might not. Maybe his plan is we die and go to heaven. It's a promotion." You've got to love that phrase. But if even if he doesn't, I'm not going to submit. Your story turned out well. Do you know what you would have thought if, okay, you're sitting here today and it's not good?

Amberly Neese: It's super easy for me to say at this point. But there are times that things don't work out beautifully. Again, our story includes nine years of infertility. We could get pregnant, we just couldn't stay pregnant.

I will tell you that sometimes I felt like, "Oh yeah, no, my faith is in a good place." And then tragedy would strike, and I would realize, "No, I still have some growing to do." So I would hope that I would just give him praise. I would hope that I would look like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and say, "Oh yes, absolutely."

But let's be honest, I am imperfect and I can't even stand the heat of Arizona sometimes, much less the heat of a fiery furnace. But I would hope that I would give him praise. I think we all are very familiar with the verses, "I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. But what we don't think through is he doesn't say, "I'm going to let you know the plans I have for you."

He says, "I know them." And if we really know who he is, if we've really spent the time and we've invested in fostering a relationship with him, searching for him like hidden treasure, if we've done those things, then when he says, "I know the plans I have for you," that's enough.

We can be satisfied in that because we're trusting less in ourselves and trusting more in the character of who he is. And so I would like to say that I would find joy in all of that.

I got on a flight one time and there was a lady who was late getting on the flight. She was a big girl too, and she was struggling to make her way through the very narrow aisle. She's doing whatever, but every time she would bump somebody, she would say, "It's all joy, it's all joy, it's all joy."

When she sits across from me, I'm thinking to myself, "Doesn't she know the term is 'it's all good'?" That was when "it's all good" was a thing. And then the more I thought about it, I was like, "No. Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know the testing of your faith develops perseverance."

She was literally saying, "This feels like a little trial, but it's all joy." And my hope was that I would respond with, even when the cancer comes back positive, "It's all joy," because I know who God is. And when he says, "Who do you say that I am?" that I can say with confidence, "You are God who has proven himself so worthwhile."

I love the ministry that you all have to married couples, and I'm going to share my favorite marriage tool. In our 31 years of marriage—which I always think is funny when you meet other couples and there's a competition. Even with the believers, this is holy competition. "Oh, only 31 years? That's adorable. We've been married 43," or whatever it happens to be.

Dave Wilson: Hey, she just said our exact number!

Amberly Neese: It's an Ebenezer. Early in our marriage, the Old Testament Ebenezer, where God would do something great and he would say, "I want you to build an altar and I want you to call it 'God is great, give him chocolate cake,'" or whatever the Message version says.

But anyway, he would say, "I want you to build an altar for this," and it was a blessing as the people would come and go. Well, Scott and I, very early on, especially when things were really tight financially, we started an Ebenezer.

Now, it didn't look like the Old Testament thing. It looked like a charger plate that we'd gotten for our wedding that we never used. I always feel like the charger plate is the one I want to eat off of, but I want to practice some self-control so I'll use the smaller plate. But the charger plate, a hurricane lamp, a candle, and rocks from the dollar store.

Every time God did something great, we'd take the rocks from outside, we'd write on it, put the date, and then we'd put them inside. What we found is it was really hard to feel sorry for ourselves when we were able to see God's hand in every day.

At the end of the year, we'd pull it out and we'd say, "Oh, this is when you got out of that traffic ticket," or "This is when God provided when we didn't even think it was possible." We just kept looking at the faithfulness of God. It's been transformative for our marriage. Because again, it's really easy as humans to feel sorry for ourselves or to get self-absorbed. It's really hard to stay self-absorbed when you're looking at God's provision every day.

In those first couple years of marriage, that's what it felt like. It literally felt like manna every single day. That's been huge and we've done it with our kids. We've done it as a family for years. But for us, it's been so huge. And when God asks us, "Who do you say that I am?" he's proven himself so faithful. And again, even if the bill doesn't get paid, even if the check doesn't get signed, he's still God. And when he says, "Who do you say that I am?" I can say with confidence all these years later, "You are the God who loves me and sees me and works in my best interest and knows that I'm workmanship because you've created me."

Dave Wilson: I think it's interesting what you're saying because you're talking about that Ebenezer being with your husband. In that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego story, honestly, it didn't hit me till this time that you never hear of them alone. From beginning to end, they're always together.

So you think, is there something about community when you've got to answer that question, "Who do you say I am?" We already talked about your other project, the *Belonging Project*, is all about community. I think when we struggle, like a lot of people that deconstruct or deconvert, they're often alone. Who is walking beside them to help answer that question? Because I'm struggling right now to remember who Jesus really is, and your spouse or your child or a friend walks beside you and says, "I've been there, dude. Let's talk and answer these questions together." That's so critical.

Amberly Neese: I think that is a glorious tidbit the Holy Spirit gave you. That is so good. The grocery store that's closest to us recently, I had some kind of return that I needed to make, which I'm not God's most patient child, I'm just going to be real honest.

And so I'm waiting in line and there were five or six people ahead of me. I found myself making up songs to try to pass the time. I'm looking at these items on the side, these impulse items I don't need. I do not need another charger, but I'm looking. I'm just trying to pass the time, I'm scrolling through social media. It just seems like forever.

And I'm finally one person away. I'm starting to get hopeful. And all of a sudden, I did not hear what the person asked, but the person behind the customer service desk said, "You know what? I'm not sure. Let's figure it out together."

So she leaves the booth. I found myself going, "No! Don't go away!" And then the more I thought about it, I thought, "Oh, that's such a glorious way to look at it." You know what? I'm not totally sure. Let's figure it out together.

I think when people are struggling spiritually, the most glorious thing that we can say to them, besides "God is good," is, "Let's figure it out together." Let's journey together. She could have just pointed her to aisle 13, but she didn't. She left the comfort of her booth and she walked alongside this person who was struggling. I think the community is the key.

Dave Wilson: I even thought, would Shadrach have stood by himself? I have no idea. But we know they did together. I love that.

Ann Wilson: There's something, too, about being in community, like even a small group, when you have women of all different ages in the group. I was in a group just last week at a table of 10 and we were just talking. There were a lot of young moms with toddlers. Those are the hardest years for your marriage. You're just dying on the vine. You're sleep deprived and you're working and you just think, "I'm doing everything as a mom, and why isn't my husband?"

It's really easy to start looking at the negative in your husband and in your life. I used to do that. I used to think, "Do I even have a life anymore?" and I'd have a pity party and then I'm the martyr.

As women were talking about the stages, this one young mom was talking about how hard it is, how her husband doesn't see her, how her husband doesn't care. So this older woman who had grandkids said, "Oh honey, I look at you and when I look at you, I think, 'Wow, this girl's amazing.'"

She just started talking about all these wonderful attributes this young woman had. She said, "I'm watching you as a mom. You're pretty incredible. And I'm watching your kids. I watched you parent the other day at church and I thought, 'This girl, she's got it going on.' And your husband, the way he looks at you, he adores you."

I was watching this young woman, her whole demeanor started to change as a reminder of all God's goodness, the things that she could be thankful for, as you said, the Ebenezers. But also, sometimes we can't see it when we're in the pit. Someone else has to point out like, "No, there's some good things in the pit. Look around."

I love that thought of, one, God always sees. And to tell him the truth of when you're struggling. "Lord, I'm struggling. I can't do this. I don't know if you see me, and I'm struggling." Put people around me, and put yourself in positions where women can speak life and hope to you.

Amberly Neese: Absolutely. And I know men need it too. They need it a little bit differently. Female babies make eye contact three months earlier than their male counterparts. Often when I say to my husband, "Are you listening to me?" it's because he's not making eye contact with me. He's hearing everything. He can regurgitate verbatim what I just said. But I think, "Oh, he's not listening to me because he's not looking at me."

Women, often we connect with each other, we look each other in the eyeball. And guys, they connect best when it's ear to ear. When they're driving in the car, when they're working on something together, when they're doing whatever, they don't have to have that eyeball to eyeball.

But I truly believe it's a superpower of both genders to be able to connect like that. It just looks different for men than it does for women. For us, we don't need an excuse. If the day ends with a "Y," it's time to connect, right? Guys need a little bit different motivation, but I'm so thankful for the power of that community that it can provide to encourage one another for sure.

Dave Wilson: I always love talking to Amberly Neese. She's wise, she gives us practical things, and she loves Jesus. Who doesn't love that? And she's created a video-driven small group called *Untangling Faith*. This is a small group study about reclaiming the hope in the questions Jesus asked. You get the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

Ann Wilson: I really think one of the greatest passions of my life is growing spiritually stronger, going deeper, learning more, connecting to Jesus more. And maybe you feel like that, too. Like you just want more. You want to learn more, you want to grow, and you want to go deeper. And you can by going to familylife.com/strongerfaith. We've got resources there that can help you grow in your faith.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today® is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Crew ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.