FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Everyone, it turns out, is well made. Everyone is imbued with dignity and beauty at their birth and even before their birth because God knit them together in their mother's womb.

So, like, what are the implications of that? Biblically? What does the research tell us about how people are gifted and how everyone is gifted?

People are hungry to have their gifts discovered, and they need help discovering their gifts. And they really want to be able to connect their vocation and their other gifts, even with their church.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us@familylifetoday.com this is Family Life today.

Speaker 2

Okay, so I have a question.

Speaker 3

All right.

Speaker 2

If you. I don't know what you're going to say, what would you say? If I have any giftings, what would you say? Mine is number one?

Speaker 3

Are we talking spiritual gifts?

Speaker 2

There's differences. There's spiritual gifts, there's common gifts. Anyone that comes to your mind. First thing comes to your mind.

Speaker 3

You have a gift of teaching.

Speaker 2

Oh, really?

Speaker 3

And you have an evangelistic gift as well. You have an evangelism gift.

Speaker 2

That's what you thought of?

Speaker 3

First two. First one, yeah.

Speaker 2

You know what I thought for you?

Speaker 3

Oh, no, no.

Speaker 2

Drives me craz. Generosity.

Speaker 3

Oh, that's. I don't think that's even in my top two or three.

Speaker 2

I mean, when I thought of you walking up to women in the checkout line at the grocery store, handing them cash, walking up to a drunk lady on a sidewalk in Detroit, handing her cash and actually putting her in your car and driving her home.

I mean, that's a part of being generous and seeing people.

Speaker 3

That's so interesting. That's the first. It's because the money is affecting you. That's why you're thinking of it.

Speaker 2

There have been times I've been annoyed by that.

Speaker 3

Why are we talking about.

Speaker 2

Why are we talking about. Because we've got the guy who wrote the book on gifts in the studio. Don Everts is back with us. I don't know how many months it's been, but we love having you here. Don. Welcome back.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Good to be with you. Dave and Anne, so fun. I was just worried to have a little couples therapy here. This is really fun.

Speaker 3

Well, that's why we brought you in. It's a secret. But you're gonna help us.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And it's interesting, you know, last time you were here, you have a fascinating life. You're a pastor in Springfield, Missouri.

But you're also a writer, and a lot of your writing has to do with research on different topics.

Talk about your... I mean, that's a unique blend.

Speaker 1

It is, and it's fun because I get to work with really nerdy, really smart Christian social scientists who are like, you know, do these nationwide research studies to find out about relevant topics. And yet I'm a practitioner, right? I'm in the church, I'm in the pulpit, I'm in people's homes, I'm in the coffee shops.

And so it kind of allows me maybe this kind of stereo view, like on the one hand, taking kind of a nerdy sort of just kind of research based, what do we learn? What do the statistics tell us or not tell us? And then I have this other view that's from a kind of a ministry perspective.

And maybe if we had a third view, it would be kind of the biblical one. Right. So they also asked me, like, help us think biblically about these topics that we're looking into as well. So it's kind of fun.

You know, I have a graph here, the Bible open here, and then I'm thinking about interactions I've had with real human beings. So it makes me think and it actually forces me to change and grow and learn.

Speaker 2

You know, when I was pastoring, we would often in meetings say, here's some. We call it some guy research. And I hated that because it meant that, you know, I walked off the stage on Sunday and some guy said, hey, what about this?

And then you bring it into a meeting and people would say, we need to change this and this. And I go, wait, wait, what's our basis? Why are you saying that?

Well, some guy. And I'm like, who is this guy?

Speaker 1

You know, maybe he just had a bad day.

Speaker 2

Exactly. And it drove me crazy, but I was always like, no, let's get real data. That's how you make decisions that are gonna be life changing. You had that blend of your leading people in a faith community and a church. And you've got real research.

And so let's talk about your latest one, wonderful. Discover your gifts, celebrating how God made you and everyone you know, which by the way, I didn't expect in everyone you know, when I saw this sometime.

Yeah, you celebrate how God made you and everyone you know, you're making a statement, right?

Speaker 1

That's it. That's right. And part of our approach. And you a little bit hinted at this earlier when you're talking about what are we talking spiritual gifts or common gifts? Because the research itself, we were looking at gifts, talents, abilities, passions, skills, whether they're innate, born with them, or developed over time.

We were specifically and explicitly looking not just at spiritual gifts, but at what we call common gifts or creational gifts. Gifts that God, as a good creator, gives to everyone he makes; he makes well and does a good job. You know, as David put it, "Wonderful are your works. I am fearfully and wonderfully made." And actually, God is a really good creator.

With our research, we wanted to focus on gifts in general. From the Scripture, we wanted to look at what's a biblical anthropology—not just what does the Bible say about believers. It has a lot of very great things to say about us that are insightful, but it also has something to say about humanity as a part of creation that God has made.

That's why the title is like, "Celebrating How God Has Made You." Everyone, it turns out, is well made. Everyone is imbued with dignity and beauty at their birth and even before their birth because God knit them together in their mother's womb.

So, what are the implications of that Biblically? What does the research tell us about how people are gifted and how everyone is gifted? What I found is we, as Christians, have a lot of experience thinking.

Speaker 3

About spiritual gifts, and let's define that as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So spiritual gifts would be the gifts that are talked about in the New Testament, which are these, like, special empowerments brought by the Holy Spirit. And so these are special to believers. When you have the Holy Spirit in you, one of the things, not the only thing, but one of the things the Spirit does is imparts these special enablements that empower you to do ministry, empower you to bless other people.

So what we're talking about are common gifts. Not common, like not special, but common. Like everyone has common gifts that God gives them at their creation, whether they're.

Speaker 3

A believer or not, whether they're believers by God.

Speaker 1

That's right. They've been bestowed by God as their creator. And because the Bible tells us everyone has been made by God.

And the Bible tells us that God’s a good maker.

And so having that view and what the research shows us, what the Scriptures tell us, there are just some kind of startling implications for when we, like, just actually sit and think about kind of the doctrine of creation, if you will.

Speaker 2

Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things I remember preaching years ago, and I was probably being too honest, but I said, you know, often I'll judge people. You know, I know you never do, Don, and never does, but, you know, you can sort of form an opinion. I mean, it's fun to do in an airport. You’re there and watch people walk by, and you start thinking things about how they're walking or dressed or whatever.

And my point in the day was it's almost like sometimes we can put a number on somebody, oh, he's a six athletically or she's a... And my point was God puts a 10 on every forehead of every person you've ever met. In other words, you never met a person in your life that doesn't matter to God and isn't gifted by God. But I think we miss that.

That's the point of your whole book: discover your gifts. Why do we miss it? Because, like you said, it's the creation glory of God put in us. The imago dei, the image of God, is in every person. And yet we go around and sort...

Speaker 1

Of first, second, third, fourth, we do. The biblical language is showing partiality. That's the fancy biblical language. And we're told in the Old Testament, God shows no partiality. And so neither should you. In the New Testament, it's really clear, show no partiality.

Showing partiality is when it's like, well, you two are different than each other and I'm going to treat you differently than I treat you. I'm showing partiality. Why do we do that? I mean, when the reality is everyone is beautifully made, everyone is knit together, everyone is, as Calvin put it, clothed and ornamented with excellent gifts.

And yet, as fallen people, we do have that tendency. We judge other people, we look down on certain people, we dismiss people rather than taking them seriously.

Speaker 2

Or we highlight people because of their profession or their athletic gift or their musical gift. And the same thing. It's like, what are we doing?

Speaker 1

That's right. And then some of us do the same thing to ourselves, right?

And so I'm someone who grew up really struggling with low self-esteem. I mean, to the point of self-hatred at times—deep, deep-seated. We can talk about why that was, and you can do counseling for me. But like, that's weird, right? I'm beautifully made by God.

So what is it like to allow the truth of scripture, what God says about us? You know, the Bible's like a mirror you hold up because you can see yourself; you learn about yourself. One of the things that you learn is that you're wonderfully made, and so is that guy you hate next door.

What does that mean about how you feel about yourself? What does that mean about how you treat other people? That's some of what we explore.

Speaker 3

Well, Don, as I hear you say that, like, I had a front up that no one would have thought that I had struggled with any kind of self-esteem issues, but I really, I just covered it well.

Yeah, but I really did struggle, and I had a lot of negative thoughts going in my head.

Oh, I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not smart enough.

Speaker 2

Yep. I mean, I'll put a quick footnote because I know you're going, but when we first got married and I would say to her, you are beautiful, she'd say, no, I'm not.

And I literally laughed out loud like, there's no way you don't think that.

And I realized it took me about a year. She really doesn't see in the mirror what I see.

And so that was a real thing.

Speaker 3

But I think a lot of people struggle with that. Maybe they don't tell a lot of people.

And I think a lot of parents see their kids struggling with it, and there's more reason to now that kids are being bullied. The social media is just a hard place.

You struggled with it. Did that have anything to do with why you wanted to write a book like this?

Speaker 1

It's part of what deepened the research for me. Right. I mean, we were doing research on gifts because of the research we did about neighborhoods, which told us, if you want to be changing your neighborhood, it's all about people using their gifts.

And we're like, well, that's interesting. Let's study gifts more. And when we started studying gifts more, both through the social science research and throughout the scriptures, I tell you, Ann, immediately it got really deep.

Speaker 3

In what way?

Speaker 2

You mean for you?

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Personal.

Speaker 1

Yes. Because here I am, you know, I can sit back as a theologian and like, yes, this is the doctrine of creation. And I'm reading Abraham Kuyper's three volumes on common grace and blah, blah, blah.

But you handle that stuff enough, and you're like, I really am wonderfully made. And thankfully, I'm at a place in life where just the love of Jesus has just, like, clobbered that in my life, you know?

And it takes time.

Speaker 3

Me too.

Speaker 1

I think it brought it back. And I was like, I wish I had learned the doctrine of Creation earlier in life. I wish I'd had more preachers who said, "God makes everyone and he makes them well, deal with it." You know, I wish someone had said that to me because I would have been like, "Well, yeah, everyone else, but not me."

You know, then the love of Jesus, of course, that can ruin low self-esteem. And so, yeah, it got real, I think, both because of that and how real that is. In talking with people about this, I found that many people feel the same way. They say, "I haven't told anyone else, but I've struggled with this a lot."

On the other side of it, we live in an age where showing partiality is now an art form. Right? I mean, in terms of how people talk about other people, there is so little grace and so few generous assumptions we have about others. It's like cancel culture has taken over.

Speaker 2

Culture is part of that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

And so that's another reason why it got deep really fast. And it was like, we're not just talking about gifts anymore. We're talking about, like, our humanity and how we treat each other.

And man, as Christians, we should be the most gracious people who celebrate the people around us who have grace on other people. Because we know. I may think you're a jerk, but my God made you. And so I have to pay attention to that.

Which makes it kind of sad when Christians kind of lead sometimes in the chorus of showing partiality.

Speaker 2

Exactly. Yeah. And I tell you, walking around airports or malls or neighborhoods with this woman, Ann, she does that almost every day. She'll walk up to some stranger. I've seen you. It's just amazing.

And I think you couldn't have done that years ago when you were looking in the mirror and thinking, I'm not enough. Now you understand who you are in Christ. And she walks up to strangers and says, oh, man, let me tell you, your hair, your smile, and you just see them light up.

You can tell they've never been told this by anybody because everybody else is competing against them. And it just brings life to their soul. Because you're sort of saying you're made in the image of God. You don't know this, but I see something in you. I just want to say, wow.

Speaker 3

But, Don, it's what you're saying too. It's the more you're in the scriptures, the more you have encounters with Jesus and this God who created us, you start to see yourself and the whole world and everyone else in a different.

Speaker 1

Way, and it transforms us. I mean, you think of the early Christians, I think we talked about this some when I was here last. But how the early Christians, how they treated the people around them and the people that they had innate bigotries against. And you know, part of why the world kind of paid attention to Jesus is because the early Christians were nice to people who were persecuting them and they treated them with dignity. And it's like, why are you treating me with dignity?

And I think this is some of why, right? Is because we have a God and we have this biblical anthropology that tells us what humans are. Now, is every human also broken and fallen? Yes, absolutely. Right. So it's not that the only thing the Bible has to say is that all humans are wonderful. Obviously, that's not the whole story, but it's part of the story, right?

And I think when we just focus on fall redemption, fall redemption, and we don't say, well, actually the whole story is creation, fall, redemption, consummation, that's actually the full biblical narrative. And that starts to, I think, invade these bad habits of how we see ourselves and how we treat others.

Speaker 2

So as you are studying gifting, spiritual gifts, common gifts, where do we start if we want to discover our gifts? Your book title, what do We Do?

Speaker 1

So one of the things I would say to people is, if you haven't heard about spiritual gifts, obviously pay attention to that. But one of the things our research showed us is when pastors are talking about gifts, they're talking about spiritual gifts. When Christians are reading books about gifts, they're reading books about spiritual gifts. And anytime they're talking about any other gifts, they're specifically talking about them in the context of a church.

One of the more sobering statistics we found was when we asked people to agree or disagree with the following statements. One of the statements was directed at pastors: "In my church, people are celebrated for the gifts they have that they use in their everyday life." Another statement was, "People at my church are celebrated for the gifts they have that they use for the church's ministry." You can probably guess what the statistic was. Oh, yeah, we celebrate spiritual gifts and we celebrate common gifts that are used for the sake of the church. But we have multiple vocations. We have callings in our households, in our neighborhoods, and at our jobs. We're just not talking about it.

So in answer to your question, that's my preamble. I am going to answer your question: Where do we get started? My encouragement to people is to think broader than maybe you're used to thinking.

Speaker 3

And I don't think most of us have. In the church, we're always focused on the spiritual gifts and how God wants to use us to further the kingdom.

But the common gifts, like, we even answered one another's gifts, like what we're good at, they were spiritual gifts that we named.

So it's interesting to distinguish how I.

Speaker 2

Could shoot a free throw, I thought. I think free throw.

Speaker 1

Some gifts do go away with age, by the way. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2

Not that one. If the hoop is, like, 4ft high, it still works. No, but I think I remember walking up to a guy in our church years ago who is a CEO of a company.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

And I remember saying, hey, I know you're an usher here and probably like that. I'm glad you do it, but I wonder if you could help me lead this meeting. I have a pretty high leadership meeting coming up. And you're gifted, obviously, at that.

And he looked at me like, like, you want to use that? That gift? No, I serve here, and I appreciate. Nobody's ever asked me to use that. I'm like, my goodness, you have a better leadership gift than I do.

Even if we sat down and you helped me structure what this meeting would look like, I guarantee it's going to. And he just looked at me like, nobody's ever asked for that here. And that's what you found out?

Speaker 1

Absolutely. And people, you know, the research told us people are hungry for that. People are hungry to have their gifts discovered, and they need help discovering their gifts. That's one of the things we found. They really want to be able to connect their vocation and their other gifts, even with their church. They long for that.

Reminds me of the story of Gary Haugen, who started International Justice Mission. I mean, he tells the story of. He was. I think it was the same thing. He was an usher in his church, and he's this brilliant lawyer who has all this experience in these justice issues in the world. And then he just hit a place of saying, I bet I could use those gifts for God, too, in his kingdom. And then, of course, this fabulously successful, like, profoundly impactful ministry that has affected the world.

That has affected the world. And as a pastor, I wonder how many Gary Haugens are hanging out in my church. And I'm like, hey, could you be a greeter? Nothing wrong with being a greeter. We need greeters. And hospitality is at the core of the gospel. But are there people like, I love what you did because you said, I know, because of your life that you have these leadership gifts and there are people with technical gifts and people with artistic gifts that I am not, like naming those and calling those out.

So that's sobering for me as a pastor, especially when you look at the research and you find that people really want to discover their gifts and they need help doing it.

Speaker 2

Hey, let me just pause and say this. Our financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry. And when you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating. You're building something eternal.

Speaker 3

And we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would. So here's the question. Will you join us today?

Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

Well, I love that you have a way to be able to assess your gifts. We can go online. What is it again?

Speaker 1

Yeah, everygift.org, so with the research, when we started finding out, A, gifts are really, really important. B, they matter to God, and he gave them to you because he wants you to use them. C, we're not talking about them very much, and people have a hard time discovering them.

So we took the research and reverse engineered it and created a kind of common gift assessment tool that Christians and non-Christians alike can use. It's called the Every Gift Inventory. It looks at these different areas and, by asking people questions, tries to help them think about themselves in different ways.

We were talking about how I helped create this assessment tool, and then when we had it up and running in beta version, they said, "Well, Don, go in and take it to kind of test it, see if it works, see if the tech works." I was blown away by what I learned by doing it and what it spit out at the end.

To say, "Here's what you've said," made me recognize that I had been in a season of life where I was not using my leadership gifts. This kind of held up a mirror to me, and one of my common gifts was leadership gifts. It actually led to a vocational change for me because it helped me discover.

Speaker 3

And this is a tool you helped to create?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I knew it all. Yeah, I wrote, you know, I wrote all the sentences and did all that stuff. But there's something about going through the process, and it's totally free. I mean, it's online. People can just do it and see what they can learn.

Speaker 3

I started doing it this morning, learning. It's unlike any that I've taken, and I have taken a lot, but it's very unique. And I thought, dave, we should both do it. This would be great family.

Speaker 2

I mean, when you were saying that, Dan, I thought, yeah. Wouldn't it be cool if our listeners right now said, let's do this as a family?

Speaker 1

Mom, dad? Absolutely.

Speaker 2

You're learning something about your kids. And I'm guessing because you learned about it, you're not using your leadership gift. You are thriving in your life. That's what I'm guessing.

I'm not saying everything's wonderful, but you're doing something you're good at.

So that's when, I mean, often we do things we're not good at and we just hate our lives.

Speaker 3

It changed your whole course of life.

Speaker 1

It changed my course of life. I mean, the company I was working at in doing the research was a little disappointed. I said this was so successful. I've had an aha moment, and I need to be back in the church, and I need to be using my leadership gifts.

But God shapes us, gives us gifts so that we will use those in our vocations and in our callings in life. So you're right. And I do think every now and then, sometimes we're just in a season, just faithfully, just keep plugging away. Sometimes that's what it looks like.

And other times it's good to get up off the dance floor, kind of take a look at how am I shaped? How has God made me? What does that mean? And am I ignoring anything? Am I like, being a bad steward of something God's been really generous with? And it's just sitting there.

Speaker 2

One of the best pieces of advice I was given as a young man, just starting off in a vocation, it was in ministry, was, do what you're good at. Find others to do what you're bad at. Now, that doesn't mean you don't develop your weaknesses.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 2

But I thought at that moment, no, no, no. You do stuff. You do everything because you shouldn't like everything you do. And if you're bad at it, well, you just got to do it.

No, he said, you're good at something. God's given you a gift. You will love life and you'll love your job if you're doing that every day.

And there's other people who are really good at what you're bad at. Partner with them and let them do what they're good at that you're bad at.

Speaker 3

I think that was just a great conversation with Don.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it is. And his book's excellent as well. You can get it at familylifetoday.com and click on the link in the show notes.

Again, it's called *Discover Your Gifts: Celebrating How God Made You and Everyone You Know*. So just go to familylifetoday.com, click on the link in the show notes, and get the book.

Speaker 3

I really think one of the greatest passions of my life is growing spiritually stronger, going deeper, learning more, connecting to Jesus more.

And maybe you feel like that, too, like you just want more, you want to learn more, you want to grow, and you want to go deeper.

And you can by going to familylife.com/strongerfaith. We’ve got resources there that can help you grow in your faith.

Go again to familylife.com/strongerfaith.

Speaker 2

Family life today is a donor supported ministry of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.