FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

If a parent is afraid that a child may make a mistake, deal with that. I need to allow my 4-year-old to spill the milk, even though it's going to be a hassle.

Now move the computer first. You know, I mean, protect what you can, but I'm going to let them spill the milk so that they understand that I know what I'm talking about.

Let them learn.

Speaker 2

Today's going to be a great day because. Kathy Cook, I thought you would say.

Speaker 3

Because I was here.

Speaker 2

Honey, it's always a good day when you're with me. There's never a bad day. Well, maybe there is, but at least we're in it together.

Speaker 3

Kathy Cook, welcome.

Speaker 1

Thank you. It's so good to be here.

Speaker 3

You just told us not to say how fantastic you are. So.

Speaker 1

So let's just get right to the show.

Speaker 3

It's gonna be mediocre. It's what it's gonna be. No, it's gonna be a great day.

Speaker 2

It's really great. Because if you haven't heard Kathy before, she gets into our lives as a parent and gives us tools and equips us with the questions and the answers.

We're looking for help. And Kathy, you bring so much help and wisdom in this area.

I think parents are gonna listen to this over and over again.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Who doesn't like a woman to start a ministry called Celebrate Kids?

Speaker 1

Come on, explain that. Jesus celebrated kids even when they were the forgotten generation. And I want us to celebrate kids the way Jesus did and still does.

Speaker 3

All right?

Speaker 1

Yeah, they're important.

Speaker 3

The other thing I love about you, you just say it.

Speaker 2

I love, you know, some people I wish I live by. You say it.

Speaker 3

It's like, boom, here's what it means.

Speaker 1

You're so fun. I'm not going to waste your, you know, your listeners time. We want them to listen to the.

Speaker 3

Whole show like we do.

Speaker 2

No, but you've written so many books on. How many books have you written?

Speaker 1

I've only written seven.

Speaker 2

That's a lot.

Speaker 3

Only seven. You got one in you now you're working on one?

Speaker 1

I'm working on several right now, actually.

Speaker 3

Several?

Speaker 1

You know, just like the two of you. Right. If God gives you a message, you have to steward it.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Ours is usually through our failure, though.

Speaker 1

Well, I've written from that, too.

Speaker 2

You have?

Speaker 1

I think we have passion for what could have been.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

And because we learn through the experiences, which again is biblical, then let's help other people also do the same. Either prevent the grief or learn to handle it.

Speaker 2

Well, why this topic of resiliency, that's important to you, Resilient kids.

Speaker 1

Yeah, resilient kids specifically, Dave, but resilient parents too, right? So resiliency is not giving up. Resilient people recover readily from challenges. They walk through their valleys. They don't sit down and count how much grass they have per square inch. You know, they walk out of their situations. They handle their grief and their trauma, their fear and their emotions, embarrassment, shame, and difficulties well.

And we need that. We have weak children today, if I can put it that way. We have a lot of maybe weak parenting that we're not helping our kids stand up and walk out of situations. And therefore they're fragile and they whine and they complain and they don't achieve what God has wired into them to achieve.

Speaker 3

Okay, we gotta go.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I know. I just had like five questions.

Speaker 3

You just dropped like 18 things. The first thing I thought when you started to describing resiliency is no wonder you're a Green Bay packers fan. That makes sense.

Speaker 1

Oh, my goodness. Careful. There it is. Be so very careful.

Speaker 3

And I'm over here in Detroit. I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's.

Speaker 3

Forget that. Forget that. I mean any one of those things you just raised. What do you mean? We have weak kids.

Speaker 1

We have children afraid to take risks because parents are afraid for children to take risks for fear that they will look bad because their children didn't make the team or made a mistake and it was public. Parenting is not about looking good through your children. And yet if you're unsure of yourself, then you expect your child to make you look good.

And it's all about, unfortunately, competition, perfectionism, and performance. So we can get beyond that. Weaker parents don't say yes to the yes things and they don't say no to the no things. Weaker parents give in to their children. And this is. I'm not shaming or blaming anybody. This is a. It's in the. It's in the air we breathe.

This idea that I should be a friend with my kid. And I don't really have to parent them. You know, they're old enough now. No, you parent your children; you'll never not have the non-parent. So do it right. And sometimes we have to say no, and sometimes we have to say yes.

Speaker 2

I mean, soon as you said that you defined, like you said, parents are weaker today. Did you say what you said?

Speaker 1

I think so. I don't like to say parents are weak, but I think parenting, not every parent. Right. Ann, you know this, but I feel.

Speaker 2

Like, I have been that at times you just don't know what to do. And I've seen. I've done this myself, where you're coming against a culture that is just so confusing in our parenting.

Hey, they used to spank. And now this timeout. And now we don't even do timeouts.

And so I think parents are wondering, like, what is the right thing to do? And so then we just let our kids do anything.

Speaker 1

Right, that's the problem. Right. So let me see.

Speaker 2

Is that the problem?

Speaker 1

Well, that's one of the problems. Like, Ann, you just said something profound too. You said. I feel like.

Speaker 2

Did you hear that? She said I said something for a pound.

Speaker 3

Yes. I wanna know what it is. Cause I missed it.

Speaker 1

This is what I think she said.

Speaker 3

She flew right over me.

Speaker 1

She said, at times I've been weak too. Like, that's the key. At times we've all been weak. At times your kids overwhelm you. At times you're not feeling good, you have a headache or your mom's sick and so you're worried. And your kid is that strong-willed. Really? Yeah.

So you're weaker in a season or for a moment, like, I totally get that. And resilient parents walk out of that and don't repeat that. The concern that we would have at Celebrate K is parents who don't trust themselves to learn what to do.

You also said something very wise. Twice. David said something very wise in one sentence.

Speaker 3

She said, I'm gonna wait till you say something about me later.

Speaker 1

Well, for sure. And I'll make sure to do that.

Speaker 3

Probably won't happen.

Speaker 1

So if you're resilient. You don't care. Come on.

Speaker 3

I do care.

Speaker 1

This is not a competition with your wife. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3

It's always a competition.

Speaker 1

Anyway, I was gonna say something really profound myself.

Speaker 3

And you forgot it. Well, I mean, one of the things she did say that I think I'd love to hear your perspective is the culture really is. I think it's always been this way, but it feels like it's heightened.

I want my children to be successful. I'll do whatever it takes. I'm happy to get them success, meaning grades, athletics, you name it. First string, not second string. Now we live in a culture where if my kid's not starting, I'll go to a different school. Even college. I can now transfer to another school and get paid to do it.

And again, I'm not saying that's all bad, but it's like... I coached high school football in Michigan for 12 years, and I had parents berating me because their kids should be starting, right? And I'd be like, no, I'm there every day at practice. You're not. Your kid's not a starter. He's great at what he does.

And so they couldn't stand letting anything hard happen to their kids. Is that the world we're living in?

Speaker 1

Yes, to a large degree. So that creates fragile children who are afraid to risk, afraid to try out. They'll say to me, "I can't try out, because if I don't make it, dad will hate me," or "I can't afford for my dad to be angry, so I'm not even gonna bother trying out." And it can be football. It can be, "I'm not gonna learn the piano, because I'm probably not gonna be good enough." And then mom will be really unhappy. And I can't afford for that to happen.

Why? Because parents are depending on their children to like them all the time. Look it up in a dictionary. The role of a parent is not to be liked by their children. And if that. And I don't want them to not like you; I just don't think that can be the goal of parenting.

Right. So the fragile kids. It's the helicopter, right? Yeah, it's the helicopter parent or the drone parent who's silent. And we don. They're there watching, and they're watching their children so closely. And they move the glass of juice before the child can spill the glass of juice, rather than letting the kid spill the glass to find out, "Oh, mommy was right. If I'm flailing my arms and I'm not paying attention, I might spill my juice and it might get on the phone, and then everybody's mad, and then I have to clean it up. And I should have listened to my mom." If they never spill the juice. So you're not saying that mom meant it.

Speaker 2

There are no consequences, natural consequences that you learn from. We're protecting our kids from so much that they're not learning. Learning some of the lessons that would have been really good for them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's so well stated. They don't. They don't understand.

Speaker 3

Another one.

Speaker 1

Yeah. They don't understand that there are legitimate consequences of their foolishness. You know, if you choose to not take your coat, even though I've told you that it's going to be cooler by the end of the day, and they're cold and they're complaining, guess what? You chose not to take your coat. You can complain all day long, but you don't have a coat. Maybe tomorrow you'll listen to me. Right?

They don't learn that. Why? Because parents need to overprotect their children for fear that they will be found out as having a child that's done something wrong.

Speaker 2

So I have an illustration. You can coach me in it.

Speaker 1

Good.

Speaker 2

We went to Colorado skiing at spring break one year. I think our son was a senior in high school. So this is spring in the mountains of Colorado.

Speaker 3

Our oldest was a senior.

Speaker 2

So sunny out. So I hand out the sunscreen, say, guys, you're gonna need sunscreen today. We're gonna burn bad.

And so the oldest son says, I'm not wearing sunscreen. And I'm like, oh, you're gonna want it. He goes, whatever, Mom. He takes it and he just wipes his hands. Literally, like this.

Speaker 1

No. And he was unstriped. At the end of the day, you already knew.

Speaker 2

He's so burned. So blistered. Blistered.

Speaker 3

We're at the hospital.

Speaker 2

We had to go to the hospital.

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 2

Because it turned into impetigo.

Speaker 3

And you could see his handprints right where he put it on.

Speaker 1

Hysterical.

Speaker 3

But it's everything around it.

Speaker 2

But it was a great lesson. I didn't get on him like, okay, that's what you want to do. You think he learned the next time he goes to Colorado? I didn't have to say anything.

Speaker 1

Did he buy. He bought his own sunscreen, right?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's a great.

Speaker 2

That's what you're saying. Is that what you mean? Absolutely. Like, let them figure it out sometimes.

Speaker 1

Yes. No, not in a foolish way. Right. We don't want children hurt.

Speaker 3

Don't let them run into the street.

Speaker 1

However, if a parent is afraid that a child may make a mistake, deal with that. And could we just go to the Bible? Can we just go to the Bible? As, you know, the primary resource that we should be using. Right. What does it say in, say, James 1:2-4, Romans 5:3-5? You grow up when you walk through valleys. The scripture teaches us that our character matures and our faith in the God of the Bible deepens when we experience him in hard times.

When I'm in front of a live audience and I ask people to raise their hand if, through the hard times, they've developed better character, every hand goes up. I then ask them to raise their hand again if, through the hard times God has ordained for them, they have greater faith in the God of the Bible. Every hand goes up. Then I say, raise your hand if you greatly value the things you've worked hard for. Every hand goes up.

I look out at them and say, then why are you overprotecting your children when you have just admitted that you've become a better person? Let me say, you guys, I think if we have more maturity, more biblical character, and more faith in the God of the Bible, we have a better future.

If parents could picture the long game, right? If parents could parent with the long game and understand that I need to allow my 4-year-old to spill the milk, even though it's going to be a hassle. Now move the computer. Computer first. You know, I mean, protect what you can, but I'm going to let them spill the milk so that they understand that I know what I'm talking about because I've lived longer than they have. So let them learn.

Speaker 3

Well, what is the answer that parent gives you when you say, then why do you jump in and not and move the milk? Why do they do that? Why do we do that? We know better.

Speaker 1

But they're not confident in themselves as human beings, and they're living through their children.

And this is when I say you're more than a mom and you're more than a dad.

And this is not about you. You're actually successful if you let them fail sometimes, right?

Wrap your mind around that.

Speaker 2

I agree.

Speaker 1

You're successful when you allow them, like if they don't remember to study and they earn a seed.

Don't let them blame the teacher and don't blame, oh, this test was so hard.

Why was the test hard? Oh, the teacher's so mean.

No, the test was hard because you chose not to study.

Speaker 2

So Kathy, let's go back and deal with the parents first because it sounds like the issue is with the parents. Is it that we aren't resilient, or we just aren't? What aren't we doing?

We're not allowing our kids to suffer or go through pain. How do we as parents help our kids with this? If we're gonna have resilient kids, then we as parents need to do some things. What do we need to do?

Speaker 1

I would love to really hear you answer your own question. I think we need to again make sure that we are not living well, not rescuing them too soon like that. We can talk all day about how we have to let them struggle. We can't rescue them too soon. We have to let them achieve a victory.

My perfect example of that: I'm a jigsaw puzzle player. Okay. My family grew up doing jigsaw puzzles, and my brother's brilliant at it. Unfortunately, when he stopped by the table and asked, "What are you looking for?" I told him I never should have told him. I said, "I'm looking for mostly yellow with a little bit of blue in the corner." I had already looked at all the pieces on the left and all the pieces around the top. I was over here on this section, and my brother stood right there. In what felt like 10 seconds, he found the piece. I wanted to slap his face because I had been looking for a long time for this one piece. He stole my victory.

And so, the mom is listening to the kid at the breakfast bar, grunting and groaning, saying, "Math is so hard. I'm so stupid." She comes up and says, "The answer is seven." You just stole that kid's victory. If you would have stood there and been quiet, this is what we do: we stand and we're present. The power of presence.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

And we, we say, how can I help you? Don't assume they want help. How can I help you? Do you want quiet? Do you want, you know, advice? Do you need, do you need some music? What would help you? And try to provide that for them.

I've actually wrote in my book about getting out of the room if you're, if you're over helping your children, leave the room. Yeah, because.

And I also say annoying like the desire to help comes from such a pure motive. Right?

Speaker 2

Yes, sure.

Speaker 1

The parent wants to do it right. And so we think we're helping when we protect. I would say you're overprotecting if you don't allow them to ever learn from the consequences again of their lack of attention, their foolishness, their pride, their impatience, their bad attitude. Call sin. Sin.

Teach them what they need to know so they can be successful. Don't overprotect and make sure. The bottom line really is that you make sure that your belief in yourself is not solely based on their behavior.

Speaker 2

Parents are doomed. Parents are doomed if their self esteem is reliant on their kids success. Honestly. Because our kids are going to fail. And if that means we're a failure, then we will overprotect.

Speaker 1

Say that again.

Speaker 2

I don't even know what I said.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Another, another.

Speaker 1

If they.

Speaker 2

This is why I love you, Kathy. You make me feel so much better.

Speaker 1

About myself if they fail and that makes me a failure. That was a really smart statement. And could we just be honest, the three of us? Sometimes it is a parent's responsibility and quote unquote fault and we have to.

Speaker 2

Own up to that, too.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we have to own, man. I could have been more present. I could have helped for the Bible to come alive. I could have shared more testimonies about how I dealt with difficulties. Many of them become prodigals because they haven't experienced the maturity that walking with God will provide them. Because they haven't needed to, because Mom's always there.

One of the things that happens to fragile children, those who have been helicoptered, or we can even talk about the bulldozer parent or the lawnmower parent who mows out of the way anything that would be in their childhood.

Speaker 2

Can we talk about all those? I like that you have words for him.

Speaker 1

The snowplow bulldozer lawnmower parent gets rid of all the challenges. The helicopter parent protects so that the challenge will be irrelevant. Is maybe one day to say one way to say it.

Speaker 3

Yeah. I mean, I had a kid that I was coaching, and he was our starting center. I knew him as a little boy because he played with my son, of course, in peewee football. But now we're in high school, and he's the starting center. He's a big kid.

His dad comes to me in the off-season and says, "My son should be the quarterback next year." I go, "Your son's awesome. He's our starting center." He insists, "He's a quarterback." I said, "No, he actually isn't. I've seen him throw a ball."

Then he tells me, "He went to the University of Michigan quarterback camp, and they told him he could be a starting quarterback in high school." I said, "They lied." I literally said that. I said, "They lied. He's going to be our starting center. He's awesome."

And they quit. They quit. The kid never played anywhere, ever played quarterback anywhere. He tried other schools, and that wasn't his gift mix. He had a gift mix, of course, and we had him in that spot, but his dad would not accept it.

I can almost tell he's looking at his dad like, "Dad, I'm fine being a center. I get to start. I'm one of the best players on the offensive line." But his dad wanted him to be a quarterback, and I'm not sure he felt he was as good as the one.

Speaker 2

Listen to coach versus another parent. Who asked you, is my son a quarterback?

Speaker 3

Which one is that?

Speaker 2

Luther.

Speaker 3

Oh.

Speaker 1

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2

And this one, Dave said he's not a quarterback.

Speaker 3

You want to hear it? Phenomenal story. This guy was a first round draft pick of the Detroit Lions.

Speaker 1

His dad, okay.

Speaker 3

And now he's out in Colorado and his son's playing high school football, and they won the state championship.

And Luther calls me and says, "Hey, my son is not getting any scholarship offers, even though he was the quarterback and linebacker on this state championship team."

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 3

He goes, he told the colleges, "I'm only a quarterback. I will not go to your school if you won't let me play quarterback."

And so Luther says, "I know you're a college quarterback. You coach quarterbacks. I can't believe he asked me to do this."

He goes, "Can I send you his film? Would you be honest and tell me?"

Speaker 1

Love it.

Speaker 3

Do you think he's a college quarterback? I go, I'd love to. I watched three or four films. I call him up, I go, dude, your son is the best player on the field.

He's not a quarterback. You want a state championship because he ran over everybody and ran around everybody, but he's not a quarterback.

He will play anywhere you want him to play in college. If he'll say, the colleges, I'll play linebacker, I think he'll get a full ride.

Speaker 1

Wow. He did. So he changed it. You were able to help.

Speaker 3

He got a full ride, played linebacker at Idaho. He's now in his sixth year for the Atlanta Falcons.

As a starter, I think I should get 10% of his. I mean, it was just.

Look at the difference in a parent who says, I want to get insight. I want him to do the right thing rather than he has to be this.

Speaker 1

Oh, see, that's so good. So the dad who is confident in who he is.

Speaker 2

That's what it is.

Speaker 1

Yeah. You mentioned self esteem, actually. So confident in who he is and wanting the boy to have joy. Right, Dave?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Wanting the son to have joy. Wanting the son to become who he was created to be. And we can't interfere in that.

Speaker 3

So what keeps a parent from doing that? Those are two different parents. One couldn't do it and one could.

Speaker 1

Again, a confidence in self. I think sometimes the parents regret their own childhood and they're trying to live through the children. Right. You know, I didn't get to be quarterback. I'm sure my son will be.

So again, could we all say that? No. You don't live through your children; have a life. And if you, you know, and I might have said this to you before, if you need your children to be your friends, like go develop a hobby and join a team somewhere, you know, invite somebody to be your friend, because this is not the design of the Lord; you know, that's not what it's about.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, you've got some really good quotes that you say resiliency begins as a choice.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

Becomes a learned ability and then matures into part of their character.

Speaker 1

That's ideal.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So recovering readily is a choice. You know, when a child learns how to walk, when they fall down the first time you expected them to fall down, you don't yell at them. Wait five years until you'll be perfect. No, you stand them back up, you grab a camera, you brag to everybody that they tried to do something and they weren't even successful, but they were successful because they tried to do something. Right. Yeah. So that's resiliency, recovering readily. It's a choice to stand up and try again. It's learnability. The more often we do it, the greater the possibility that we'll learn how to start over and not regret the past.

And then part of our character. New book I wrote on character resiliency is in the Baker's dozen top 13. Because we have to readily recover from difficulties because life is full of them. And if we don't know how to readily recover, like, my friend didn't call me back. Oh, woe is me. Life stinks. No, your friend didn't call you back. That doesn't mean that. Right. I mean, but again, if you're weak and if you have a negative, pessimistic orientation to the world, then I must be a terrible person because my friend didn't call me back. And my friend is a terrible person because she didn't call me back. And I'm not gonna bother with any other friendship possibilities because all people are terrible.

Right. That's what afraid people do. And that's not of the Lord. If we're believers. Come on. And I'm not. Like, negativity is a part of life. Right. Like, let's go there. That can happen to the best of us. But it's not an orientation to life. If you're a believer in the Lord.

Speaker 2

Jesus Christ, I wonder if it's helpful to share with our kids stories of people that have had hard things happen, but they have been resilient and bounced back up.

I know that our granddaughter. It's been interesting to watch some of the things our kids or grandkids like to watch or play with or the movies they're resonating with.

Speaker 1

Sure, sure.

Speaker 2

Like Bethany Hamilton. Is that her name?

Speaker 1

Oh, yes.

Speaker 2

She's the surfer.

Speaker 1

The surfer with lost her arm.

Speaker 2

A shark bit her arm off. And my granddaughter was probably 5 years old, and every day she'd walk around with her arm inside her shirt pretending to be Bethany Hamilton. And I kept thinking, what is that? And I think it's the overcoming.

Speaker 1

Exactly. It's the survivor. It's the overcomer.

Speaker 2

Resilience.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I think. Well, yes. And aren't we created for that?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

We're created in God's image. He calls us overcomers. Right. We know that sin doesn't define us. We're dead to sin. I mean, the Christian can rise above it all. Right. I absolutely believe in that.

Role models. And we can be role models. I think it's powerful to have the assistant at the church, the bus driver, the chef at the school. Like, we don't have to use powerful people as our role models. We can use everyday people. I'm a huge fan of Bible heroes. Jesus is the most resilient person you might ever know about. You can name any others: David, Moses, Paul, and oh, my goodness.

Inventors are great examples of resiliency, where they've tried thousands of times to make something work that's a good idea. They didn't consider themselves failures; they were learning the whole time. Athletes, if you're a great baseball player and you make it to first base three out of ten times, you're excellent. Three out of ten times. Right.

So I like inventors, athletes, musicians. You know, the person that your grandkid loves didn't make it to the main stage overnight. They played a lot of backrooms for free before they ever got recognized. And kids don't know that. So the work it takes for us to be recognized, if you will, all of us have a story.

You know, I wasn't a keynoter the day that I became a public speaker. I spoke to very small audiences for very little money at the beginning. And the Lord has blessed those efforts. So I think resiliency in our lives and then pointing it out to our kids to stay with us.

Speaker 2

That's what I was gonna say.

Speaker 1

Yeah. To stay. To a son and a granddaughter.

And I remember when you weren't able to do that.

Look at how you have chosen to mature. Look at how you've chosen to be teachable and you've chosen to practice and you've benefited from that.

I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 2

They need to hear, and I wonder too, do we as parents, should we share our failure stories?

But how God has taught us in the midst of that and even say, like, that was one of the hardest things I've been through, but it also has become the most character-shaping experience I've ever gone through. Bingo.

Because our kids know that about our marriage as they got older, not when they were young, but they know that our marriage struggled. But God shaped us more through that than anything else.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think there's a place for that. I think I'm a big believer in sharing the struggle when they are mature and ready to handle where they don't throw it back in your face.

Here's what children tell me. If you present yourself as perfect, then they're afraid to be imperfect in front of you. Right.

Speaker 2

So if you could we ask our kids that. Do you think I'm perfect or do you think I'm like. What would be a question I would ask.

Speaker 1

Do you think perfection is important to me? Oh, absolutely. How do you know that?

Speaker 3

You know why she just went, no.

Speaker 1

Why did she do that?

Speaker 3

Because I think we would say our kids would say yes about us.

Speaker 1

And then you ask the follow up question, Dave, is it possible that I simply have high expectations? So people who expect perfection are unhappy with an A minus because they wanted an A. They're unhappy with jv, they want adversity. They're unhappy with a A two in the solo ensemble concert, you know, not a one. So were our expectations fair, but high? Like, my brother has a PhD, earned a PhD and a postdoctorate. I haven't earned PhD. Our parents had high expectations and education was important. And we are both grateful for the high expectations. I would not be here today without my parents believing in me. And the possibilities were endless. And they weren't even believers.

Speaker 3

Was there pressure?

Speaker 1

I didn't feel it from them. No, I didn't feel it. The desire I had was to become who I was created to be, which is why my story's so important to me. And I wasn't even a believer at the time, you know, came to Christ at 19, was raised in church. But I think I've always been living on purpose. I think purpose is just the king. We just have to live on purpose.

Speaker 2

And I think we, as parents, we can help our kids with that. When our kids were little, like toddlers, I would say, I can't wait to see what God has in store for them.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2

And they would say, is it a present?

Speaker 1

Oh, I love that. I love that.

Speaker 2

And I said, when you discover what God put in you and what he created you to do, it is a present.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's brilliant.

Speaker 2

And so to start saying those things when our kids are little so that they start looking forward to, like, who am I? What is my identity? Because you talk about some of the core needs that kids have, right?

Speaker 1

Absolutely. You know, let's use piano as an example, right? When a child. When you bravely decide to allow your child to play the piano, right? Like, it cannot be easy to listen to those scales, you know, and to listen to the same, you know, row, row, row your boat 52 times on the piano as the kid gets ready for the lesson on Tuesday. And it might be really, really difficult or, you know, pee wee. Football can be really difficult the first season. But if they don't give up, they could find great joy and purpose and passion. Everybody who's now serving the Lord as a worship leader started out as a terrible guitar player, you know, and it was the parents who had patience and the parents who said, a little more effort and I think you'll be fine. And I would say to parents, if after two years, there's no progress and the teacher even affirms for you that this isn't a gift, then they're allowed to quit as long as they fulfill commitment. And that will include things like sports. Again, you signed up to play soccer. I don't care if you hate it. You're finishing out the year because your team and your coach is depending upon that. And guess what? Four weeks later, at the end of the season, can I play again? They found the rhythm and they found the joy, and they found the satisfaction. So we can't let kids quit early. And that again, that's the parent who steps back and says, oh, this is so hard, but it's okay because it's not about me being happy all the time.

Speaker 3

You think you ever let them quit? Should you?

Speaker 1

Yes. I think they can't pursue all their interests, Dave. I think we get to a limit. You know, there's music, there's art, there's academics, there's service, there's youth group, there's missions trip, there's family. There's just so much. And there's so much pressure on our kids today to get it all figured out. So I think, yeah, sometimes we quit. Sometimes we discover that a passion has shifted. They were interested in athletics. I know of somebody who was very talented athlete through sophomore year in high school. And then he knew that that wasn't going to continue. He knew that he was arriving at a place of a different set of interests and a different passion, A different really call from the Lord, and he asked his parents permission. Even though I'm talented and my team needs me, I really feel like this is this. My time is up, and I'd like To have time to devote to something else. And I think it was right for him to ask. That was very respectful and right for parents to say, hey, we agree. Let's put some emphasis somewhere else.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

Okay, let's dive back into the conversation. What about the kid who's stuck? I'm thinking, I feel like I know a lot of parents with kids right now that are even in elementary school who won't try anything because they're afraid of failure. So they don't want to try out for basketball and they don't want to be in the band and they don't want to do anything. They'd rather just play video games.

Speaker 1

Oh, good heavens. Right.

Speaker 2

And so parents are saying, I don't know what to do. What would you say to the parents in that circumstance?

Speaker 1

One thing that I would teach is that, you know, to make sure that we say to our kids, not everything is going to be easy. Like when kids complain to me, school is so hard, I'm like, good. Like, no, you didn't hear me. I said school was hard. I'm like, good. Because if it's easy, you don't need to be there. Like, the purpose of school is to learn what you don't yet know. So it's okay for you to not know it the first day. It's okay for you to be a little bit stressed at double digit addition with carrying or whatever the case may be. But we don't give in and give up. Learning is what we're called to Proverbs 4, 13 and other verses. And we're going to do that in our family. We have a family value of curiosity and learning and risk taking. If they truly won't take a lot of risks, I would ask the parents and Grandparents step back and examine yourself. How do you respond to their mistakes? Or if you have a child who asks you for help, is your response is, why weren't you listening the first time? That kid's not going to ask you for help ever again and again. Maybe they weren't listening, but I would advocate that a child was brave to ask you for help. That took courage for them to admit that, for them to come and say, dad, what am I supposed to do next? I'm so sorry that you weren't paying attention, but I'll answer you today. This is the next thing to do. Now, what would help you listen better tomorrow? You know, you can use it as instructional if you want to, but kids who won't take risks are often told they're wrong. There's often a critical spirit in the family. They're often shamed when they need help. And could we just remember that learning isn't easy? Like, we might love math, and we're looking over their table, you know, and over their shoulder. They don't like math. It's a challenge for them, and we love it. That's a dangerous combination. We needed to step back and again, say, this isn't about me. I think we should, like, that should be like a refrigerator magnet, you know, it's not about me. And can we get out of our own self, if you will, and get out of our way and parent our kids in those moments?

Speaker 2

Do you think parents are being too easy on their kids? Now.

Speaker 1

There'S a history to that question. Do I think parents are being too easy on kids? Sometimes I do. I mean, I think sometimes the over rescue, you know, where they can't let their kids struggle because it makes them feel bad. So overprotecting and quickly answering their questions and not making to suffer the consequences of their decisions. I would say in some families that's the case. And those are parents who need to really question why are they so concerned about mistakes? What are they afraid of if their kid gets something wrong or their kid doesn't make the team or doesn't, you know, make the honors symphony and only makes the second string, if you will. I think other parents are way too hard on their kids.

Speaker 2

Yeah?

Speaker 3

Yeah. Why'd you ask that?

Speaker 2

I feel like generationally speaking, we're parenting kids different in generations. And so, I mean, we even have names for generations. But I'm thinking our parents weren't very involved in my life, my brother's lives. They were, but they didn't even know what I was doing. And part of that was just because they trusted people more than I think. Because of social media news. We know what's happening and it's freaking us out as parents. So we do become more protective. It feels like we're more scared now as parents because our kids are facing a lot of things that maybe they didn't in other generations. So I'm just wondering because of all we hear is the generation raising kids right now because of all they're seeing and experiencing. Experiencing. I wonder if they're putting safeguards around their kids because they feel like the world is scary and we need to protect our kids and we do.

Speaker 1

Right. So I would affirm that. That there are some school choices to really consider and certainly what your children are watching on social media, if they are on social media, why are they there? What are they watching on TV that you've allowed in their rooms? What are they listening to that you might not even know they're listening? Who are they following?

Speaker 2

So you said, if they're on social media, why are they there?

Speaker 1

Bingo. Why?

Speaker 2

What's the answer to that? So you don't think they should be on no ma' am at all?

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 2

Until how old? You have some passion behind that.

Speaker 3

You're a radical.

Speaker 2

I like this.

Speaker 3

Let's hear it. Let's hear it.

Speaker 1

I believe that if you are going to allow. If you believe your children will get onto social media when they graduate out of your home, then they should learn how to handle it in your home. So if at the age of 18, they're going to go to trade, you know, tech college, university, junior college, missions, then for the last several months of them living in your home, let them on an app, one or two that you believe are safe and you make sure that you're your friend and teach them discernment and teach them, you know, time management and make sure that if they, and I would say this is what I write about, that their character is destroyed by tech. Okay. The most grateful person can become entitled in five days because of technology.

Speaker 2

You're saying that their character can be wrecked by being uns?

Speaker 1

Absolutely. We're the most entitled people in the face of God's green earth. No, I don't know that for sure. Maybe 20 years. I live four and a half miles from an Amazon distribution center. And that's both wonderful and horrible because I can order something at noon and have it by eight, and if they don't give it to me by eight, I'm like, why didn't you have that in stock? You should have known that I was ordering that. Like, I am amazing. Have you not met me?

Speaker 3

The microwave.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's the microwave. You know, gps, everything is easy society. So technology can cause that shift in children from I am grateful to, I am entitled, I deserve what I want when I want it now. You know, we're of the generation where we had to save $18 and go buy a whole album for the one song we wanted.

Speaker 2

Yep, we're in a generation. I remember the Peanuts, Charlie Brown Christmas special. I had to wait once a year. And you had to get it right at the right time on that hour on Saturday night to watch it.

Speaker 1

You had to be home at the right time, permission to watch and all of that. And now kids with, you know, really too much freedom and. But, and back to the original question. If they're going to be on social media at some time, have them begin it while they're in your home, but at the age of 13, which is the legal age, why do they need that?

Speaker 2

So you.

Speaker 1

Are we not providing them with friendship and social outlets? Do they not have people to hang out with in a youth group and a service team, you know, at their Christian school, in a homeschool co op.

Speaker 2

Give the parents a conversation of what that will sound like when their kids are just pestering them every hour, every day to be on social media? What do we say when the kid.

Speaker 1

Says everybody else is, well, that's a lie. You're not. So, you know, if they say everybody is, you know, that's a lie. You're not. And that'll get them, you know, thinking, but I parent you. God has called us. This is the dad speaking. Ideally, God has called us to parent you. Our responsibility is not for your neighbors, not for your cousins, not for any other kid in your class, but our responsibility is to God, for you. And we have decided that it is best for you and best for the values of our family if we all abstain from social media. Or again, if the mom is on it, you know, then she's on it when the kids are in bed. In my opinion, they don't see her scrolling. One of the reasons that we've got really troubled kids is we have distracted parents. And again, please understand, there's. I'm on social media. There's good uses of it. I'm not banning it in entirety. However, children are telling us, they'll say, like, I'm not going to have a hard conversation with my mom if she's on social media, if she's got her phone. I'm not going to Talk to her, because as soon as it dings or pings or rings, she's gone. She's emotionally absent. And I'm not going to start a conversation a second time. That was hard enough the first time. So if you want your kids to be coming to you with their concern about risk or loss or grief or fear, get off of your devices. And so this is why I said that. So again, we're parenting you, and our decision has been made because I believe that chronological ages are relevant and character. Age trumps everything.

Speaker 2

What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1

Meaning that. So they're 16 and they can drive. No, if you're 16 years old and you've got your learner's permit, but you're aggressive and quickly irritable and you have no impulse control, and you've shown me that you're irresponsible. You can't even find your school notebook. I'm not giving you car keys. Yes, but I'm 16. I know you are, but no, you don't get to drive. Why? Because your character has demonstrated that you're not ready. And I think this is actually an interesting conversation in a show about resiliency because we're teaching our children that their behavior matters to us, right?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

So you're 13, and that might be a legal age for some social media apps, but you're immature. You're already easily manipulated by your friends. You've demonstrated that you have an entitled attitude, that you want steak when I was making pork chops. And you demand choice. You know, the apps on all of our devices has trained us to believe that choices are right. That's not true. Choice is a privilege. But if they're already 13 and demanding choice, teachers tell me, all this time, the teacher will say, 350 words, cursive, writing in blue, due on Wednesday. And the kid is like, if I type it and do 500 words because I turn it in on Thursday, they're always negotiating. And this is why parents are tired. And parents are quick to say, just do whatever you want. Yeah, I understand.

Speaker 2

Because they're tired.

Speaker 1

Because they're tired, because they're scrolling on social media. Maybe more than they should.

Speaker 2

So kids are negotiating more now than they have before?

Speaker 1

Yes, based on what we know, because the devices have taught them to negotiate.

Speaker 2

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1

I mean, there's so many options, right?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So there's all these options. And again, I use technology. I couldn't run the ministry the way that we run it without it. And yet I'm old enough that my brain was finished when I started using it. So it hasn't had the kind of control over me. To God be the glory.

Speaker 2

But we also. I'm still stuck on the part. Maybe parents are listening. Maybe you're stuck on this part too where Kathy just said if your kids are home, you shouldn't be on your social media scrolling. Possibly.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's ideal, Ann. Ideal. And I've recommended as I teach that the men and the moms and the dads, you check your banking website after they're in bed, you go to espn.com after bed, if that's important. You want to choose a new refrigerator, you go to the website, do the research when they're in bed, or involve your 10 year old and teach them a couple of things about discernment. This store has this kind of refrigerator with this many cubic feet for this sale price and this, I mean that would be amazing. So you can use technology together, watch YouTube videos together. Would be good, you know, better than doing it isolated. But are children your priority or aren't they?

Speaker 2

I mean, I do that with my grandkids. I'm careful to pull it out. And our grandkids are there and she.

Speaker 3

Gives me the eye if I pull it out.

Speaker 1

And again, here's the thing too, Dave. Let's teach them the difference between need and want. Right? So I'm gonna go to dinner with some friends tonight and I may have my phone and I may have it on and I may need to take a call and I'll look at them and say, hey, if you don't mind, I'm gonna answer this. We all are mature adults and we know that there's a difference between need and want. So you don't pull it out if it's just a want. If you're bored cause you're talking to an 8 year old, don't pull it out. You know, but if it rings, you need to say to your grandson, oh, if you don't mind, I need to check this, my boss might need me or.

Speaker 2

So you're explaining it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you're teaching the difference between need and want.

Speaker 2

That's good.

Speaker 1

Which is, you know, that's. We could talk all day about that. That's just huge, right?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And like do I want to Diet Coke or do I need it? We use want and need horribly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Yeah. I was just gonna say that parenting tip in the last five minutes could literally change a household.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

It's so kind of you.

Speaker 3

It's mom and dad or my. If we decided. I am not going to use this device. I mean, it's tearing down our families, and we're modeling for our kids. We're trying to ask them to do the same thing.

Speaker 2

I'm just going to share a failure this week, actually, with our son who has children. This is awful.

Speaker 3

Oh, I was there.

Speaker 1

Okay, let's hear it.

Speaker 2

See, I'm a verbal processor, so it. I'm trying not to say it when I think it, Kathy. It's so hard for me.

Speaker 3

So this is an adult son with his own kids.

Speaker 2

Adult son, but his kids are with him, and he's on his phone, and I can hear them asking him something. They have a need. And so I come over and I get the kids, take them, and I say, you would be a much better father if you weren't on your phone.

Speaker 1

Oh, my.

Speaker 2

And it pretty much erupted as, like that sun.

Speaker 1

So he did not appreciate it in the moment. Wasn't I helpful?

Speaker 2

I was just so helpful. I don't know why he wouldn't just say, oh, thank you, Mother, for your kind advice. And I shouldn't have said it. I should have prayed about it. I might think that, but.

Speaker 3

Well, coach her up. What should she have said?

Speaker 2

Yeah, let's say even a wife thinks that about her husband, or the husband.

Speaker 3

Thinks about the wife's wife thinks about this husband, then.

Speaker 2

So it's not good to just blurt it out in front of the kids or whatever. That was a bad move on my part, for sure. Coach us.

Speaker 1

Well, I appreciate your humility. So I love that you recognized it, and I love that you're passionate for the family, and that's where your words came from.

Speaker 2

I like that you started out with a positive thank you.

Speaker 1

That's what we should do. And I mean it. I didn't make that up. And then we wait for another time, you know, when the kids are gone, the grandkids are gone, and he's available. They say, you know, I don't know if you noticed it, but, you know, Jonathan was asking five times for something that seemed legit to me, and I'm concerned that you weren't available. So I would start with. Rather than, you know, turn your phone off. I'm concerned that you weren't available, or I'm concerned that you weren't fully present. I like that phrase of fully present, because that's what kids have said to me. They're never really with me. Dr. Kathy, I cannot tell you how many kids have said to me. They watch me play, and I wish they'd play with me. So we're observing. We're a culture of observers, and oftentimes it's because our phone is more important. And then I would possibly say to, like, an adult son, I'm afraid that your kids are learning something about you by the choices you're making. Yeah, well, what are they learning, Mom? That your phone's more important to you than they are because that's what they're learning. Yeah, right. So that's the way I would maybe approach it.

Speaker 2

How do you think a husband and wife could approach that? In the same kind of way.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think we're ideally. And again, for those, the audience members who don't know, I am single and more than satisfied.

Speaker 2

But you've worked enough with people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, this is what I do. I mean, first, with respect, you say, I feel ignored, so I feel not. You should put away your phone. But you have a right to your feeling. You have a right to your disappointment. Could we. We is a powerful pronoun.

Speaker 2

That's a good one.

Speaker 1

Not, you know, you should stop using your phone. But could we agree that from dinner through, like, 9pm like, we're not that important? See, this is the thing, too. Why, like, I can check my phone at a red light. Like, what do I think has happened in the last three minutes? I am not that important.

Speaker 2

We all do it, though.

Speaker 1

We all do it. Like, we're so quickly bored. So this is what I would love for the husband and wife to get. It is, what's going on there? Am I bored? Am I anxious?

Speaker 2

Am I escaping?

Speaker 1

Am I what? Escaping. Exactly. And then I think, what happens if you have those conversations and say, I just. I'm feeling less than. Like, could we develop a hobby? Could we listen to an audible together? Could we learn a new board game? Could we go for a walk? Like, what? Cause here's the thing. You can't stop something without starting something. Right? Cause that vacuum of. That's just. That's. No. And we're addicted. We're addicted to the adrenaline drop. We're addicted to the lie that I'm so important I have to check my phone. We're addicted to the lie that, like, I'm amazing. Have you met me? You know, and everyone's talking about me on Facebook.

Speaker 3

Fomo.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly. That whole FOMO thing. So I think we say, if there's a legitimate need, tell me. So you get home from work, you say, man, you know, my colleague has a business trip and wasn't feeling well this morning. I may need to go in his place. So I'm so sorry, but I need to leave my phone on tonight because I might be packing a suitcase at another airport. So you announce it. And this is, again where we come at it from. A need versus a want standpoint.

Speaker 3

No, I remember at the time. You will remember it. Well, maybe you will.

Speaker 2

Did I mess up again?

Speaker 3

That was way back, boy. We have three boys. They're little toddlers. At this time, we're at a playground I grew up with no dad. Ann and I are sitting on this bench, and Ann goes onto the jungle gym with all three boys.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

And I'm sitting there watching. You know what I'm thinking? This is awesome. I'm a dad now, you know? Look at my kids over there. And Ann comes over, and she's so. And she knows I'm competitive. She sits down, and she goes, hey, look at all the dads. I look around, every dad is watching. All the moms are on the jungle gym.

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 3

And she goes, you want to be one of those dads? And she left.

Speaker 1

And.

Speaker 3

And that's all she had to say. I was like, I should be on a stinking jungle gym with my kids. And again, I'm not blaming that. I didn't have a model. I never even had that thought till she said that. I'm like, and you know what?

Speaker 1

You went and did it right.

Speaker 3

Ask her. I think I was on the jungle gym the next 20 years. I never stopped. Every kid in the neighborhood came down my house every night. Cause Mr. Wilson would play. I became that dad because she just.

Speaker 2

Said, he's a master.

Speaker 3

Do you want to watch or do you want to be engaged? I'm like, that's all I need to hear is like, you are right. Let's go.

Speaker 1

Ann, that was so beautiful. You loved. Well, you loved your husband. You wanted him to have the joy that you had, and you loved your boys. So proud of you.

Speaker 2

Thank you. Because I don't know if my motive was that great, because I was like, come on. But he's so good at that. I told him that this week when he plays with our grandkids, he is the funniest.

Speaker 3

She said to me on the flight coming down here, she goes, you know something? I love this. Last week, I go with Sash. She goes, bryce, our sixth grandchild.

Speaker 2

No, he's six years old.

Speaker 1

Six years old.

Speaker 3

Six years old. I don't know what number grandchild is. He's getting at the age where he's jumping on you and he's feeling his strength, and he's getting strong. Little dude. And I'm laying on their basement carpet. They're wrestling, just diving on me and pushing. And you can feel he really. And I didn't even realize that. She goes, the whole time you get that giggle. I go with a giggle. She goes, that's what you did with our boys. And they love it. And they're finding themselves. You want them to play. And I'm like, I love it too. It's blast.

Speaker 2

Well for boys, especially with that testosterone. Of course they need to sweat. I told our kids, especially in a cold climate in the winter, they need to sweat somehow every day.

Speaker 1

Play is. Play is life changing. Play is like cement for the relationship. Play is freedom. So you can't play perfectly. So to play gives a child risk. To play gives a child freedom to try. They don't even know what they're doing right, but they're experimenting the whole time. Whether you're resting on the floor or you're playing a new board game. My favorite thing to recommend is that the whole family plays something new. The whole family goes to a park no one's ever been before. The whole family learns a new game that mom and dad don't even know. Now they know more about game playing, but they've never played that game. So there seems to be some freedom of the risk. Play is communication. Play. Play makes bad days easier to handle. Right. Because there's fun and there's joy in that. And we don't do it enough because why we're so busy and we're on our phones.

Speaker 2

I think now when you go to a park and the parents are sitting and I'm guilty of this too, it's easy to be on our phone.

Speaker 1

Absolutely.

Speaker 3

Not even watching their kids.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Can I. May I tell you a sad story?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I don't know if I've mentioned this to you before, but when I was writing my book about technology's effect on our behavior and beliefs, when I was writing my book about how technology changes our beliefs, I was at a playground researching and observing and talking to people. And a young boy, five or six years old, had done something very clever on an apparatus. And he came over to his mom. Now, when I was six, I would have said, did you like that, Mom? Wasn't that cool?

Speaker 2

Did you see me?

Speaker 1

You know what he said, mom, was that good enough for Facebook or should I do it again? He's six years old.

Speaker 3

He really said that?

Speaker 1

Yes. Was it good enough for Facebook or should I do it again already knowing that I am performing for my mom now I'm back to how we started this out, but we talked earlier about kids don't want to take risks and kids don't want to be wrong, and parents can't afford for their kids to be wrong. And I wonder if that's where that starts. Right?

Speaker 3

I'm performing for my mom and even for her friends.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes. My mom has to post something that's really clever, better than she has to have a new reel for Instagram. These are real things.

Speaker 3

It's going to be a highlight reel, never a mistake.

Speaker 1

Right? Right.

Speaker 3

Let me ask you this, because one of your core values is identity.

Speaker 1

Yes, sir.

Speaker 3

So if we're trying to instill wonderful positive identity in our kids, we often, as parents, think mistakes and failure don't help them build a positive identity. It helps them build a negative one. So we try to protect that.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

Is that how it works?

Speaker 1

No, sir.

Speaker 3

I didn't think so.

Speaker 1

That's so good. I think mistakes and failure. I don't like the word failure, but mistakes help us identify what we're not called to do. Mistakes point out the challenges. Mistakes mistake statement. I'm not as athletic as my brother, but that is okay, right? It has to be okay. Why? Because we honor God's creative intent when he makes us. And he chose to make me not athletically inclined. That's okay. Unless my dad needs me to have a high school starting quarterback position, you know, then it's not okay. Right? So mistakes are a part of life. Mistake. We're not created perfectly. If we think we're perfect, we don't need a savior and we go to hell. This is no joke. I mean, this is serious business. So mistakes are apart. Challenges are apart. A B is better than a C. It's not an A, but that's okay. Unless your kid wants a career that develop, you know, needs to have that A. So again, can we handle that? So identity is best formed with strengths. What do you do? Well, where's your passion? Where do you get your joy from? But the reality is that we all have things that are less than ideal for us. That's okay. You know, one of my stories is that spelling doesn't come naturally to me. I've written seven books. I'm working on several right now. I use a thesaurus to write with. There's nothing wrong with that. I travel with the misspellers dictionary so I can look up the word the way I think it should be spelled and find it the right way. And that's true. Spelling is. I have an earned PhD and I'm a writer, but I don't give in to my weakness. That's the other thing about identity. You can say that I'm not as. It shouldn't be comparison. I'm not as good at this as my brother. Who cares? You just say, I'm not terribly good at this. Don't let your identity be a comparison identity. But just say so. Spelling isn't my strength, but I'm still going to write. Why? Because I have messages that God has asked me to spread out. And I'm not gonna let my weaknesses win.

Speaker 3

Now, how does the parent say that to his child that isn't good at something without thinking I'm killing his identity? Cause, you know, you watch American Idol the first couple rounds, and they get up and say, my mom says I'm the greatest singer ever. And you're like, your mom lies.

Speaker 1

Exactly.

Speaker 3

You know, but you're thinking, the mom wanted to be, you know, affirming. And so she wasn't truthful, but now she's gonna find out the truth.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So how do you do it as a parent when you want them to have a great identity, but you gotta be honest and say, this probably isn't your lane.

Speaker 1

We make sure that they know their strengths, that you're a creative thinker, that you're a quick problem solver, that I've noticed that you play so kindly with your sister when you teach her a new game. You're slow and patient, and you've let her win. I love that you have compassion for people. So we make sure that we're specific in affirming strengths and maybe we categorize them. I've noticed that you're musical. I've noticed that you're artistic. I think math and science are your jam. Like, you just love exploring. And that's why when I said, don't put that stuff in the bowl yet, you wanted to put it in the bowl right away. Cause you wanted to know what would happen. God made your mind a thinking brain. I love that about you. So we're very oriented towards strength, giving God the credit. And then they're gonna be able to handle it when we find out. Well, this isn't easy for me. But you know what? That's okay. Like, you can learn to persevere and to be diligent, to be teachable. You can learn to find. Like, in fact, I have great joy overcoming the things that are a challenge for me. And I can't wait for you to find out that the same thing's gonna happen. To you. So we try to spin it in a way that a character building experience. And then we. But we. You know what, Dave? We have to keep saying it is okay. Yeah. But my best friend, he's such a runner. I know. So we want to go to the track meet and we'll cheer him on.

Speaker 2

That's so good.

Speaker 1

Like, we still let them cheer for their friends when we say, you don't have to be like him.

Speaker 2

Kathy, you just dropped, as you were giving an example of what you would say to your child. You dropped so many positive things as you were talking.

Speaker 1

Thanks.

Speaker 2

And if we do that to our kids on a regular basis, I mean, I see this in you. You're so good at this or your character this.

Speaker 3

You were the best at that.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's neat.

Speaker 2

Not at the beginning.

Speaker 3

You were phenomenal at that. You are now. You build me up every day. You see greatness in people.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 3

He sees greatness in a stranger.

Speaker 2

And you do, Kathy, you do, too.

Speaker 1

I do it. Yeah. Thank you. I do it because I think. I think God would compel us to do that. Frankly, I think that's part of my call for identity. We have to know who we are. I believe that children become who we tell them they are.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

I believe that people, husbands and wives, adults, friends, we become who people tell us we are. If I'm told by somebody, kathy, you're just. You're joyful. It's so much fun to be with you. I will be more joyful. For the next 10 minutes, we're just called to be the things that other people value.

Speaker 2

Our words have power.

Speaker 1

They do have great power. And we can learn to do it even better. And I think some parents, Ann, are afraid of pride. You know, I can't tell my kid all the things that he's good at. He'll develop a big head. I would say to them, if that happens, then you call it out, call sin sin. But if they don't know what they're good at, they won't do anything good. And if they don't believe they were created to do good, they'll be mad at God. When they learn he's the Creator and they don't know the good things about them, then they're drawing the conclusion that God skipped me on the assembly line, which is not true, of course. And there's a difference between pride and. Pride is believing that your strengths are more important than somebody else's. Pride is not recognizing you have weakness. Pride is owning your strengths and not Crediting the Creator for them, it's not prideful to know what you're good at. Now, if I stand up and brag about it and affirm myself in front of people, that's not right. But don't be afraid of affirming children and grandchildren and even adults for fear that they'll develop a big head. Because what they need is a big heart and a big confidence in themselves and in God. And that comes from knowing what you're good at.

Speaker 2

That so good.

Speaker 1

Right?

Speaker 3

I mean, in some ways, it's like when they walk out of your house, they're going to get torn down. Most people are not building them up. So when they walk in your house, build them up. But in the right areas.

Speaker 1

Yes, sir.

Speaker 3

They'll lie, but build them up. But they got a gift and a skill. Pour it on.

Speaker 1

I love that, Dave. And you know, another thing to do in that is to teach them what to do when they're torn down. Right. So first of all, if you're with people who are negative and critical and don't affirm you, why are you with them? Why would you choose to spend time with naysayers and negative people who.

Speaker 2

This is especially true with girls. Like, teenage girls can be cruel.

Speaker 1

Absolutely.

Speaker 2

But you're still going back to the same place. So you would ask, why are you still.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Why have you chosen? Why have you chosen your choice and chose. Those are huge words. You've chosen to put yourself under their authority. Why would you do that? Or you've chosen to spend time with them when I know there's other friends that have also welcomed you in.

Speaker 2

What do kids usually say?

Speaker 1

I'm not as good as you think I am, Mom. And they're telling me the truth. Sometimes it's. They want the low expectation because they don't like the pressure to perform. Sometimes they don't know how to get out of that. They don't know how to. In one of the books I've written, I actually teach friendship skills. They don't know how to end friendships without hurting people. And they don't want to hurt people. We're the drop and run. Right. We're just the unfriend generation right now. So he's just. No, it's not healthy. So to train or to train children, you know, somebody said you're not good at it. Well, you know, I'm not very good at that, but I'm learning. Like, what would you train a grandchild or a child to say when they're demeaned in public? Right. And sometimes I would teach children. It's a comeback in your mind, even if you don't say it.

Speaker 2

I've never even thought of this before.

Speaker 1

You train them to have a comeback. You don't know me well enough to say that about me.

Speaker 2

Okay, so your kids are in a situation, someone says something negative to them. And you would say that?

Speaker 1

Yeah, in my head.

Speaker 2

Oh, in your head.

Speaker 1

Now, depending upon age and circumstance, if I'm, if I'm close with these people and I was teachable, I might even say, what makes you say that? I wasn't aware of that. Like I might really truly be teachable in the moment. And I wasn't aware I was coming across that way. Like, what did I just do? Well, you were just talking all about yourself and when I was telling you about my story, you didn't listen because then you just went back to your story. Like that reminds me of a time when I. You didn't ask me for any details of my story, so you were coming across really self centered. Oh, I. Whoa, you're right. I'm so sorry. I am interested in you and I should have asked you for some questions so you would elaborate. Like that would be amazing if we would be humble enough to do that. Right. So sometimes the situation would be if somebody says, man, you're clueless. I disagree. I didn't know the answer to that question, but that doesn't make me clueless.

Speaker 2

So you're coaching your kids how to do this.

Speaker 1

I'm a big believer in scripting conversations with them. I like that they don't know what they don't know. They don't want to be mean and aggressive and they don't want to. What do they say? Could you say, well, I disagree. Like the simplest thing to do would probably say, well, I'm sorry that. That's your opinion of me. I disagree.

Speaker 2

Has anybody said something negative to you and you had a script?

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah. I mean, to God be the glory. I don't hang out with negative people. Like, I am not. I don't associate with people who don't appreciate who I am. I guess I would say I have a very good friendship circle. And not that they're not going to call me out sometimes they will. Certainly my accountability team will call since then, anytime I ask them to do that for me. But yeah, there's a script in my head, you know, and I don't always say it because you have to earn the right to communicate that. Or maybe the, maybe it's not the right opportunity. With the number of people in the room, or there's no time for a continued conversation. Or maybe I just need to think about it more deeply. But in my head, I'll say you're wrong. Because frankly, sometimes they are.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but. But versus I'm thinking of my growing up years, if somebody would say something to me, I would. It would go in my head. I'd be so stunned. I'd have no comeback. I'd go home and I'd be crushed.

Speaker 1

And you keep thinking about it. Right.

Speaker 2

That's all I would think about. And then it would say settle in. And I would think whatever they said is true.

Speaker 1

Right. And that's what we can't allow to have happen.

Speaker 2

Social media does that with our kids.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. Which is one reason we shouldn't let them on it.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Because the people there don't know them well enough to know.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 1

So they're just blowing nonsense. You know, if you're in a club. But this is exactly what girls in particular will do. They'll believe it because it was told to them. And they must know what they're talking about. And then we keep it internally. We don't share with our mom. Mom, somebody said this about me, you know, I'm sad or I don't know what to do with this. Or, you know, mom sees the girl crying or sad. What are you sad about? Nothing. No. We can make that an easier conversation to have. But I would love for us to teach children and teens and preteens the art of the comeback is what I call it.

Speaker 2

That's an interesting conversation with parents and their kids that are old enough to be. And that it's not disrespectful even. You might not ever say it, but it's in your head. Something that will help you to cope with the negativity. And I could even say. I could even picture myself as a teen that had known Jesus. Like to talk that over with Jesus.

Speaker 1

Yes. I was going to say that. Yeah. To bring it home, you know, and to think about it. But not in a I assume they're right mentality, but to think about it as a woman who wants to be teachable. And then you take it to the Lord. Is there any truth here at all?

Speaker 2

Yes, Lord. And what do you think about me, Lord? What do you think about that?

Speaker 3

And to a good friend.

Speaker 1

Yes. That's excellent.

Speaker 3

Say that's ridiculous. Or, you know what? Something to consider.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think relationally for adults as well, you know, I think we can be flippant with each other, and we can. We're all guilty at assuming what something was meant when it wasn't meant that at all. Do we love ourselves enough to ask for clarification?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

That's good. Which takes some courage, you know, man.

Speaker 3

The wisdom of Kathy Cook.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 3

That's what I'm calling today. Where can our watchers listeners find you?

Speaker 1

Celebrate Kids.com is our website, and we promote our podcast there. We podcast at the celebrate kids with Dr. Kathy podcast channel, and we are on both Facebook and Instagram at Celebrate Kids, Inc. And we would be honored if people would want to hang out with us.

Speaker 3

Oh, they will.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 2

You're such a great friend and resource. We love you.

Speaker 1

Well, I. I love the. I love you. I love your passion for the community. You're doing such important work, and it's an honor to be a part of what you're doing.

Speaker 2

Thanks.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 2

Hey, thanks for watching. And if you like this episode, you better like it. Just hit that like button, and we'd.

Speaker 3

Like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe. I can't say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don't think I can say this.

Speaker 2

Word like and subscribe.

Speaker 3

Look at that. You say it so easy. Subscribe. There he goes.