Family Talk

Dr. James Dobson: Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It's a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute, supported by listeners just like you. I'm Dr. James Dobson, and I'm thrilled that you've joined us.

Roger Marsh: Welcome to Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. As parents, we want our children to be healthy, of course, but what does healthy really mean? Is it just about keeping them physically fit, or is there something more involved?

On today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, Dr. Dobson sits down with his long-time friend, Dr. Walt Larimore, a family physician with 40 years of experience, who's also the author of the book, The Highly Healthy Child. Together, they will explore a whole child approach to health that covers body, mind, relationships, and spirit. That's coming up right now on today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Dr. James Dobson: To help us explore that topic, we've invited our physician in residence, my very good friend, Dr. Walt Larimore, to be with us. He is in a fine position to advise us on medical issues and other things. He was in private practice for 20 years.

He received his medical degree from Louisiana State University and is a graduate of USC. I sort of resent that, but that's the way it is. He went on to complete a residency in family medicine at Duke University Medical Center.

He's got all the medical credentials in the world and has used his talent for his patients and for the Lord for these many years. Now, it's just been wonderful working together. He's here to talk about this new book that he's written, published by Zondervan, called The Highly Healthy Child, right down the barrel of what we were talking about.

The things we talk about are just the common sense stuff of everyday family life, and we're certainly right there today. Walt, what is a highly healthy child? This is very similar to another book that you wrote with a similar answer, I think, but define it.

Dr. Walt Larimore: It's very similar to The 10 Essentials of Highly Healthy People. I surveyed, as a research project, about 3,000 families, not just in this country but around the world, asking them what does it mean to be highly healthy. Dr. Dobson, it won't surprise you, but most people thought of health as being physical health or maybe emotional health.

And yet the Bible tells us, research tells us, and thousands of years of wisdom tells us that health is much more than that. In fact, a physician by the name of Luke, writing about the child Jesus in Luke 2:52, wrote that Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and he grew in relationship with God and relationship with men. He sort of outlined it for us.

Jesus grew physically, in stature. He grew emotionally, in wisdom. In relationship with men, well, that's relational health. And in relationship with God, that's spiritual health. And those four principles that Luke outlined so clearly as being the total picture of health, we now see in the medical and social science literature as being crucial, not only to us as adults, but to our children even at the very youngest stages.

Dr. James Dobson: You refer to that as a wheel that can be flattened on one side and the other three can be doing fine, but if one of them doesn't inflate properly, then you're bumping along. You've got a lot of work to do here.

Dr. Walt Larimore: No question. If you think in terms of your health as being a vehicle, can you imagine going down a dark road in the middle of the night, there's no lights, you're alone, and all of a sudden one of those tires blows? What could be more frightening?

Our health is designed by our Creator so that those four wheels—physical, emotional, relational, and spiritual—are to operate together. They're intricately and complexly designed to work together, and if one of those wheels starts to get a little out of balance or a little flattened, it can wreck the whole car.

I remember a little guy I write about, his name is Daryl. I met him early in my practice. He was a little guy, bald as a cucumber because he was suffering from leukemia, a real severe form. He came down to the Disney area for a Make-A-Wish Foundation trip. I got to meet him and his mom and dad and I got to talk to him.

Here's a kid who is almost as sick physically as you can get. In fact, he died just a few months after I met him. And yet he was one of the healthiest kids I've ever met. This kid was bubbling with enthusiasm and with energy. He was centered, he was emotionally healthy.

He had a great family that loved him, laughed with him, affirmed him, cheered for him, guided him, and disciplined him. This little guy knew the Lord. I'm embarrassed to admit it in a way, but I don't think I ever will be as healthy as he was. Even though he was highly unhealthy physically, he was one of the healthiest kids I ever met because those other three wheels compensated.

Dr. James Dobson: I remember reading an article written by Dr. Benjamin Spock. This goes a long ways back because he's been gone for many years. But he was talking about the panic that mothers feel when they take that child home for the first time, especially if it's a new mother.

They say, "What am I going to do? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to take care of this child. I'm not even acquainted with him and yet I'm responsible for all those areas that you talked about." That's a common reaction today, isn't it? Especially when we are separated from family members.

It used to be that mothers and grandmothers and aunts and neighbors would come in and they would teach those things. Now these women are isolated and they look at that complex little creature and say, "How in the world can I pull this off?"

Dr. Walt Larimore: If you add to that the single mom whose husband has been lost to her, abandoned her, or perhaps has passed away, I think if there was a subtitle for this book for parents, it would be "Fear Not." You are designed by your Creator to be crucial and integral to your child's health in all four of these spheres.

By practicing a few simple principles—first of all, becoming aware of them and then practicing them—you can influence not just this child's health, but the next four generations. Jim, I've got to tell you, as a young doc, just out of residency, Barb and I were in a little town in North Carolina practicing.

Dr. James Dobson: What name is it?

Dr. Walt Larimore: It's Bryson City, North Carolina. And you've written a book called Bryson City Tales, which tells the stories of that early practice. One of the sequels to that original book will have this story of how as a dad, I felt lost.

No one ever taught me how to be a dad. No one ever taught me how to be a husband. No one ever taught me to be a father. I remember coming home one night at the end of a very rough day. It had been rough in our family dynamics and rough in the practice. It was a little yellow Toyota Corolla. I still remember pulling up under a fir tree, dropping my head to the wheel, and saying a phrase that you'll remember: "Someone help the boy."

Dr. James Dobson: How could I forget? In fact, how can he forget? He hears about it a lot.

Dr. Walt Larimore: That's how it was: "Somebody help the boy." Jim, that next week was when the film series that allowed you to go home and be there for your family started playing. The guy who taught me to be a dad and a parent and a father was you.

The principles you espoused then, all of them were supported by Scripture, but some of them not having any science one way or the other, they worked. They equipped me, they empowered me, and they enabled me as a dad, a father, a husband, and a spouse, to not fear.

So I've stolen from the best of your wisdom, the wisdom of Dr. Gary Chapman, of John Trent, Gary Smalley, and Kevin Leman and tried to put all of those tips into a handbook that would help that parent who's saying, "Someone help the boy. Someone help the girl."

Dr. James Dobson: We all have drawn from the same source, really. There is only one source and that's the Creator of children and the Creator of families. He will give us an owner's manual that tells us what to believe and how to respond in situations.

It's amazing how much truth about child-rearing is in that book. For me, I get the credit for the things you're talking about sometimes, but I stole it also. I not only got it from the Lord, but I got it from my mother, who got it from her mother, who got it from her mother. It used to be handed down generation to generation. There was just a common wisdom about kids, and that's gone in the culture. It is totally gone.

I'm very worried about this generation of parents and their kids because I see them in public places and they don't have a clue about what to do when this three-year-old is throwing a temper tantrum. They have no idea what to do when this child demands the purchase of candy or whatever it is.

The child's in control and you can see that. It is just unfortunate that we have lost that common wisdom, that understanding of the ages, really.

Dr. Walt Larimore: It's like the story of the young mother that was pushing her child in the cart and the child was just terrible—screaming, yelling—and the mother was trying to stay calm and she'd say, "Connie, it's going to be all right. Connie, we're going to make it. Hang in there, Connie, we're almost done."

It was just masterful watching her at work and the couple that was observing her kind of followed her from aisle to aisle. Finally, as she was checking out, the man walked up and he said, "It's just amazing to me. I've been a dad a long time, I'm a grandfather now. I can tell you're a young mom and this is a strong-willed child, but it's really masterful the way that you have dealt with and communicated with your daughter, Connie."

And she said, "Oh, her name's not Connie. My name is Connie." So my prayer is that moms, dads, and young marrieds around the country will take this handbook and dissect it. We don't have those extended family members around us—many of us don't.

Gather together and say, we don't know it all, but there is wisdom available and there are principles available. How can I very simply assess where my child is at, find the wheels that are most flat, and then begin to apply principles that literally can change parenting in a few short weeks?

Dr. James Dobson: The title of your book is The Highly Healthy Child and one would get the impression from that title that this is all about medicine. What are the things parents need to know about diseases and about immunizations and other things? But you have tried to deal with this totality of child-rearing that, again, represents four areas. Name them one more time.

Dr. Walt Larimore: It's physical health, emotional health, relational health, and spiritual health. I remember one day in the office I had a little eight-year-old girl. Her mom brought her in with severe chronic headaches. As a physician, I might start thinking about tumors or infection.

As a psychologist, you might think about anxiety or depression or a two-year-old at home. I did a physical exam, did a history, and couldn't identify a cause. So I had the mom use the assessment tool that's in the book. It's a very simple tool that allows a parent to measure these four wheels. There are four spokes on each wheel.

When you finish that assessment, you can literally look at that little one-page chart and in three seconds identify where the problem is. I had the mom fill that out and I was stunned because the physical wheel was pretty round. The emotional wheel was round and balanced, but the relational wheel was flat.

The reason it was flat is that one of those spokes measures how much time a mom and dad spend with the child. This child had parental involvement that was almost zero. The dad had two jobs and the mom had one job. There was very little time spent with that child.

I asked that mom, "Are you willing to try an experiment? Yes, I want to give your child something for pain, but over the next two weeks, will you and your husband commit to give this girl at least three hours a week of your time?" She said, "Well, that's going to be very difficult." I said, "I know, but are you willing to commit?"

She said, "Well, we have quality time with her." And I said, "You never have quality time outside of quantity. It doesn't occur with the child. You can't plan it. It happens within quantity." She reluctantly agreed and I saw them back in the office 14 days later and she was stunned.

The headaches were gone. That wasn't a lucky guess. That was just taking ageless, timeless principles, putting them into a simple assessment tool, and allowing a parent to do it. Parents around the country that have used this tool now are sending us reports saying, "I found a broke spoke."

Dr. James Dobson: And it's in this book. You're an advocate of parents seeing themselves as quarterbacks of their child's health. That means that there are a lot of players and the parent's responsibility is to get all those people in place and see that they're each playing their proper role. Is that an accurate analogy?

Dr. Walt Larimore: Jim, isn't it a great analogy? We both love football although we root for different teams. Mine's better than yours. Wouldn't you have loved to see USC and LSU play? You and I would have been there. It's such a shame that they didn't get a chance to play.

We might never be friends again after that game, but I think it would have settled some arguments. But I teach parents that not only do I want them to be the child's healthcare quarterback, God has given them that responsibility and that obligation.

I remember one of the first moms to teach me this. Her husband was a golf pro just starting out on the tour and he was away. Their little three-year-old girl got sick and she brought her to the office for me to check her out. I always ask moms, "What do you think's going on?"

She said, "I think she has meningitis." I said, "Why?" She said, "Her neck's a little bit stiff, she's got a fever. I just think she has meningitis." I examined this little girl. Her neck wasn't stiff, her ears were fine, her throat was fine, and there was no fever. I said, "She doesn't have meningitis. I think she's got a little viral infection. Treat it this way." This mom looked me in the eye and she said, "I think she has meningitis."

I had been in practice long enough to realize that God's given a mother a special heart and a special intuition. I said, "Well, if you want to check for it, we can. We've got to go to the hospital and do a spinal tap, but I don't think we need to." She condescended or acquiesced to that, but she said, "If there's any problems, you call me back."

About an hour later, she didn't call me back. She called Barb at home, my wife. She told her she was concerned and here's why. Barb said, "Then you take her to the emergency room. I'll call Walt and he'll meet you there." I went there. The exam hadn't changed, but I did a spinal tap on that little girl and do you know what? Of course you know what. She had early meningitis. God designed moms that way, and we in the healing professions need to understand that and empower that and equip that.

Dr. James Dobson: Many physicians haven't understood that, to their own detriment. The mom says there's something wrong. They don't make a diagnosis, but they say, "Something's not right about this kid." The physician sometimes says, "Well, it's an anxious mom." But the truth of the matter is, she often knows.

Dr. Walt Larimore: She does know. I remember the story of a little four-month-old girl whose mother said, "There's something wrong with her." The doctors that looked said, "Nothing wrong, nothing wrong, nothing wrong. This is a first child. You're a hysterical mom."

When that child was six months old, finally the doctors gave in and did a brain scan and that little girl had no right brain and only half of a left brain. She has cerebral palsy. She had had a stroke when she was in the womb. But that mom knew two months before the doctors knew.

That mom's name was Barb Larimore. And the first doctor that missed that diagnosis was Dr. Walt Larimore. The sooner that pastors and physicians and psychologists understand that the parent has the responsibility and the obligation to be that child's healthcare quarterback—and then as that child grows, to teach that child to be their own healthcare quarterback.

Hire a good coach and get a good primary care physician. Hire assistant coaches. Jim, you've done that. You have wonderful assistant coaches that you can call upon to get opinions and to get guidance. But the game plan is yours. Shirley helps with that, doesn't she? Friends help with that. Your church community are all part of your healthcare team.

Dr. James Dobson: The problem with that is money. It's difficult enough for a person to pay for medical care. Many people don't have insurance today, so finding somebody that can deal with all four wheels is difficult, isn't it?

Dr. Walt Larimore: A parent may have to recruit several people onto that team. In the book, I talk about who are the possible team members. How do you choose them? When it comes to a child's physician, for example, how do you hire them? How do you fire them? How do you interview them?

This shocks moms. They say, "Fire a doctor?" You bet. That doctor is your servant—your paid servant, maybe even your overpaid servant—but nevertheless, they're there to serve you. I wanted to guide parents in making wise decisions in choosing that healthcare coach.

Dr. James Dobson: When we're talking about the health of the child, that wheel, one of the first things that a parent runs into is the decision regarding immunizations. I mentioned that earlier. There's a lot of controversy about that. Probably what you're going to say—and I'm in agreement with today—is going to irritate some people, but stake out your claim.

Dr. Walt Larimore: The myths that are circulating, particularly among churches, about immunizations and vaccinations are stunning. So what we've done here is look at all of the letters and communications that come in—what, 250,000 communications a month? Yes. Many are about vaccinations.

We've tried to take those myths and give people what the evidence says about immunizations. What is the truth so that parents can make wise decisions? I was in England in the late '70s training. In the late '60s and early '70s, there was an anti-immunization movement in Great Britain.

By the time I got there, most children were not immunized. I saw diseases in Great Britain that most doctors have never seen in the modern era. In the obstetrical ward, I saw a mom come in who delivered a baby. This mom had not been immunized when she was a child. She hadn't had her measles, mumps, and rubella shot.

As a young pregnant mom, she came down with German measles, with rubella, because she wasn't immunized. It was devastating to her baby. The baby that was born was deformed, brain-damaged, blind, and deaf. To watch that mom and to watch those grandparents weep over this horribly deformed little girl, who could have and should have been saved from that horrible disease but wasn't because of a decision that was based upon falsehoods, myths, and misleading information.

My hope is that parents in America won't fall victim to false information often given, Jim, by very sincere people.

Dr. James Dobson: It's a subject that people get very exercised over. But when you see what immunizations have done to eradicate these diseases, I don't know how you can argue with it.

Dr. Walt Larimore: If you learn the truth, it sets you free. We want in this book to present truth. Jim, most of our listeners won't know this, but you've been mercilessly attacked by people who say, "Hey, Dr. Dobson, you're in the pockets of the pharmaceutical company. You're recommending these immunizations which are causing autism. Shame on you."

Jim, there are few things that irritate me as much as that because if you or I were convinced for one instant, one millisecond, that any shot could harm any child, there's no one in this country that would stand on a mountain and yell it louder than you would. You love kids.

Dr. James Dobson: I would. I've never had even so much as a meal provided by a pharmaceutical house. It's absolutely ridiculous to say that I'm a shill for them or even for physicians out there. People are just very suspicious today of the medical community and of that whole area, including pharmacy matters.

I've got to tell you, I'm a product of it. I'm sitting here today because the Lord used physicians to give me the right medication when I had a stroke. It lasted 24 hours instead of 24 years. So I have a lot to be grateful for.

Dr. Walt Larimore: I've seen your scans from that day. I believe, as you do, that had the clot-buster not been available, your ministry as we know it and as we love it—all of us who are listening today—it would have ended.

Dr. James Dobson: It would have. I couldn't say a word for 24 hours. That is a combination of things. First of all, there was a lot of prayer that went into that and the Lord heard that prayer and I believe he answered it through some very competent neurologists and people who knew what they were doing.

Dr. Walt Larimore: In the last 30 years in this country, I don't know another man who's demonstrated his love for children more than you, for how they're cared for in these four areas. So when it comes to the vaccination area, we just want people to have the evidence and the truth to make wise decisions.

Dr. James Dobson: When you're talking about health and the social development of a child and spiritual development and all the other things that you touch in this book, there's no place to stop.

Dr. Walt Larimore: It's like trying to eat an elephant, isn't it?

Dr. James Dobson: It really is and we've been going awful fast, but there's a lot more here. As I often do, let's just devote another program to this subject. I just want to thank you again for the contributions that you've made to Family Talk. I appreciate you personally and as a friend. You and Barb have just been great friends to us, so it's a pleasure to have you as our guest and we'll do it again next time.

Dr. Walt Larimore: I look forward to it, Jim.

Roger Marsh: What a fascinating conversation featuring Dr. Walt Larimore and our own Dr. James Dobson discussing raising truly healthy children. That idea of four wheels—physical, emotional, relational, and spiritual—is such a practical way to think about our child's overall well-being. Even if one of those wheels does go flat, we have to pay attention to it because then the whole ride will go bumpy.

You've been listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk in part one of Dr. Dobson's conversation with Dr. Walt Larimore. If you missed any portion of today's project or if you'd like to share it with a fellow parent, visit JDFI.net. Be sure to join us again next time when Dr. Dobson and Dr. Walt Larimore will continue their discussion.

You'll definitely want to hear what Dr. Walt Larimore has to say about you, the parent, and the crucial role that you play in your child's health. That's coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.