Family Talk

Dr. James Dobson: Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It's a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute, supported by listeners just like you. I'm Dr. James Dobson, and I'm thrilled that you've joined us.

Roger Marsh: Welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh. As we get settled into the month of February, we know that this month is synonymous with love. As Christians, we know that there are different types of love. There is agape love, which is sacrificial. There is philia love, brotherly love. There is storge love, which is familial "I love you anyway" love. And then there is eros, of course, the romantic love.

There's also the greatest commandment that Jesus gave us, which is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. But what does loving those around us look like, specifically our spouses, in how they are wired?

On today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, we've asked a special expert guest to join us on the program to talk about that. Dr. Gary Chapman is with us. Dr. Gary Chapman is synonymous with love because of his landmark book called *The 5 Love Languages*. It has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide and revolutionized relationships all across different generations.

As a trusted counselor, pastor, and speaker, Dr. Chapman has spent his life helping people communicate love more effectively and build lasting connections. Gary Chapman is also the director of the Marriage and Family Life Consultants, Inc. and has a radio program that is heard on over 400 stations nationwide.

Dr. Gary Chapman has released a brand new book along with his colleagues, Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott. It's called *The Love Language That Matters Most: How to Personalize Love So They Really Feel It*. That will be the topic of our conversation today. Dr. Gary Chapman, welcome back to Family Talk. I know if Dr. Dobson were not rejoicing with the Lord right now, he would definitely want to be here having this conversation with you. Thank you so much for being with us today on the program.

Dr. Gary Chapman: Thank you. I've always appreciated Dr. Dobson. It's hard to believe that he is with God now and not with us, but I'm happy to be with you today.

Roger Marsh: Thank you so much for this. I have to laugh because I was watching a video clip of a woman who is on one of those reality shows, and she was bragging to her friends that she was fluent in six languages. They kept looking at her like, "Are you kidding me? What do you mean six?" She said, "I know English, and I know the five love languages." She was very proud of herself for saying so.

When people hear those five love languages, it's possible they might just know about it but might not be familiar. Give us a 60-second overview. How did this all start? It came out of your pastoral counseling, did it not?

Dr. Gary Chapman: It did. I'll never forget the first day it dawned on me that what makes one person feel loved doesn't make another person feel loved. There was a couple I had never met them and I found out later they'd been married to each other for 30 years. She said, "Dr. Chapman, let me just tell you the main problem. I don't feel any love coming from him. We don't argue, we're civil, but I just feel empty."

He said, "I don't understand that. I do everything I can to show her that I love her. I don't know what else I can do." I asked him what he did, and he rattled off all these things. He cooked the evening meal, he washed the dishes, he vacuumed the floors, he mowed the grass, he washed her car. He said, "I don't know what else I can do." I looked back at her and she was crying. She said, "He's right. He's a hard-working man, but we don't ever talk. We haven't talked in 20 years. He's always mowing the grass, washing the dishes, vacuuming the floors."

I realized here was a sincere husband. In his mind, he loved his wife, but it wasn't coming through to her on the emotional level. That's where it all started. After that, I heard similar stories over and over, and eventually, I thought there's got to be a pattern to this.

What I did was look back over notes that I made when I was counseling and asked myself, when someone said "I don't feel loved by my spouse," what were they complaining about? What did they want? The answers fell into five categories, and I later called them the five love languages. I used it in counseling and also teaching classes in our church for probably five years before I thought, if I could put this concept in a book and write it in the language of the common person, leaving out psychological terms that many people would not understand, maybe I could help a lot of couples I would never have time to see in my office. I had no idea what would happen.

Roger Marsh: Is it true you and I have known each other for probably 15 years or so, going back and forth in the broadcast world, and it seems like every time we talk, you say the same thing, which is: this year, the book outsold the year before. Does it still have that kind of cascading effect where every year just keeps getting better and better?

Dr. Gary Chapman: The last two years, it has not outsold, but it's been right up there with the year before.

Roger Marsh: Well, when you consider that this book was published in 1992, that's pretty remarkable to consider the fact that it just has kept growing and growing. It has even fought through. Let's face it, the academic world would say, "Wait a minute, five love languages? You just told me what those four Greek words were and this is nothing." If I do an exegesis on the five love languages, it's not going to hold up theologically. You never set out to do that, right? The whole idea was these are patterns of behavior as opposed to doing deep dives in Greek and Aramaic.

Dr. Gary Chapman: Absolutely. Really, it is just addressing one aspect of love, and that is the emotional need for love. Almost everyone agrees that one of our deepest emotional needs on the human level is the need to feel loved by the significant people in our lives. If you're married, the person you would most like to love you is your spouse. If you feel loved by your spouse, life is beautiful. If the love tank is empty, if you don't feel loved and you think they wish they weren't married to me, life can begin to look pretty dark.

Roger Marsh: It's amazing talking with Dr. Gary Chapman today about those five love languages and the couple that was so devoted to each other that you just shared that story of. I'm thinking, as you were describing it because we've had the benefit of the *5 Love Languages* book, "Here's an acts of service guy who's married to a quality time and words of affirmation woman." If they can just piece these together.

But 35 years ago, people weren't necessarily thinking like that, and this revolution has just been so remarkable to see how many people have benefited. Now we have this brand new book that has just now been released. The title is a take on the five love languages; it's called *The Love Language That Matters Most: How to Personalize Love So They Really Feel It*. You've combined your talents along with Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott to put these together. What was the genesis of this new book?

Dr. Gary Chapman: Through the years, people have said to me, "In your book on the love languages, you mention that there's dialects to the languages, but you don't tell us what the dialects are." The other question I've heard is, "How does the person's personality interface with the love languages?"

In this book, we are addressing those two questions because I've heard them over and over through the years. I teamed up with Les and Leslie Parrott because they're excellent in this field. We first began with a premium assessment of the five love languages in which we introduced some of the various dialects within the languages and helped you discover your dialects and also personality things. Then we decided let's write a book so the person can read it or they can go online and take the assessment and find out more specifically how to communicate a particular love language to their spouse or to any significant person in their life.

Roger Marsh: Dr. Gary Chapman has become synonymous with the five love languages. As a matter of fact, we have a link up at JDFI.net for 5lovelanguages.com that has the premium assessment that Dr. Chapman is talking about and has information about the book *The Love Language That Matters Most*. By the way, that is the number five, 5lovelanguages.com.

As we think about what that means, how do we put some legs on this? What are some of the first steps? Taking the assessment is helpful, but you mentioned that tone of voice. I can't help but think I heard a sermon one time where a pastor was describing the tone of voice God uses as being as important as the actual words God uses when he speaks to us, sometimes even more so. I'm sure you've seen in counseling where a couple says, "I said I loved you," and it doesn't really land because there's something about the way they look at you and the way the voice sounds. Let's get into a little bit more of these conversation or communication styles in addition to just the types, if you will.

Dr. Gary Chapman: Let's just take words of affirmation because that's my love language. I've known it from the very beginning; that's my love language.

Roger Marsh: Well, you do a great job, Dr. Gary Chapman. Let me just say right off the bat, I've never seen anyone handle this topic as well as you do. How's that? Is that good?

Dr. Gary Chapman: Thank you very much. I feel good already. But again, I had never dug into what are some of the dialects with words of affirmation. Some of the ones that we deal with in the book are words of encouragement, where a spouse is saying to their spouse, "You know, honey, I read this article that you just wrote. I know you haven't submitted it to anybody, but I really think this is a great thing and you need to submit it to somebody, even if it's the local newspaper."

For some people, it's those words of encouragement that lead them to do things that maybe they wouldn't have done before. They really feel loved when they get encouragement. Other people, however, you can give them encouragement and say, "You're really good at this and you ought to start a podcast or you ought to do this or that." They don't feel encouraged; they feel like you're pushing them to do something. It's one more thing on their to-do list.

And then there are compliments. It's just looking for things that you like about them. "You look really nice in that outfit." Or, "One of the things I like about you is your personality. You're always positive. I like that about you." It's just looking for those kinds of things that you can compliment them on.

And then it's giving words of appreciation in which you are expressing to them how much you appreciate the fact that you fix dinner every night. I don't take that for granted that you fix dinner every night. It's hard to believe that in this world, you're still that kind of person, and I really, really appreciate that. Whether it's the husband or the wife that's doing the cooking, it's appreciation for things.

I took the quiz myself after Les was the main one that put that quiz together. I took it, and I found out my dialect is appreciation.

Roger Marsh: Interesting.

Dr. Gary Chapman: Appreciation. That's just an example out of that one love language, but we give different dialects on each of the languages. I really think this is going to help people be far more effective in really communicating love to the person, and they're going to get it on a deeper level.

Roger Marsh: Dr. Gary Chapman is our guest today here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. We're discussing his brand new book co-authored with Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott. It's called *The Love Language That Matters Most: How to Personalize Love So They Really Feel It*.

The book is divided into three different sections. You've got the problem, then you've got the solution, but then you've got the tactics. As you and the Parrotts were doing the research for this book, I'm sure you noticed some of the bigger problems that couples face when they're trying to communicate. It's one thing to say, "Okay, I know this in my head. I know what I should be doing here." But how do I put it into practice?

There's a quote in the book that I love: "Learning to love at the most meaningful level is daring." Talk about why a lot of couples who may have been married for many, many years will look at a situation like this and say, "I want to understand the difference between words of affirmation, words of encouragement, words of compliments, but it's working right now. So I don't want to mess with that. Give me the courage to dare to challenge our system internally."

Dr. Gary Chapman: I think you're right. We all get into routines. If we are familiar with the love languages and we know each other's love language and we've been speaking it through the years and we both feel like the other person feels loved and we feel loved, why would I want to learn anything else about this?

I would suggest to that person: why don't you say to your spouse, "Honey, I want you to be honest with me. On a scale of zero to ten, how much love do you really feel from me this week?" And they say, "You really want to know?" And you say, "Yes, I really want to know." If they say anything less than ten, then you know you've got some homework. You know you can do better than you're doing. It's just a simple way of finding out. We just assume if we feel loved, we assume they feel loved because in our minds, we're speaking their language. But that's a way to open up a conversation that's non-threatening but can hit you in the face and make you say, "Oh, well, let's talk about this." So that's a good way to start.

Roger Marsh: It certainly is. When you risk that kind of vulnerability with your spouse, you do put it all on the table. I love the fact, Dr. Gary Chapman, especially for us guys, I'm sure there are a lot of men who are thinking, "Wait, what do you mean ten? Isn't seven pretty good? I mean, eight? That got me into college, those kinds of grades. What do you mean it has to be a perfect ten?"

But I understand what you're saying, and I think that also gives us permission to be able to say, "If it's not a ten, tell me why. Show me what's happening here." I think about a recent conversation my wife Lisa and I had where we'd had some conflict over a miscommunication. I both of us have been married before; this is our second marriage for both of us. So we have every now and then some words that come out that are PTSD moments from the previous relationship. We'd gotten to the point where the conversation got really, really vulnerable, and she stopped and looked at me at one point. She said, "I know you didn't mean it this way, but it sounded like you were saying..."

All of a sudden we had to look and say, "Whoa, I didn't realize that I was using that kind of language, that kind of tone, that kind of presentation." The idea that we weren't at a ten, but then we both had to walk back and say, "Okay, well, why are you telling me it's not a ten, and why am I not at a ten, and then how do we turn this around?" It's fascinating to try to quantify emotions that are just emotional. I commend the three of you for taking on this problem and providing us with solutions about it too. How satisfied, Gary Chapman, are you with the end result, knowing that this is your brainchild, but then the Parrotts came alongside and said, "Hey, let's put this new wrinkle into it because here in 2026, couples need this."

Dr. Gary Chapman: I was very, very excited that they were willing to join with me on this project because I've been thinking about this through the years. Really, in my own mind, I didn't know exactly where to go with that. But I knew Les Parrott and his wife Leslie, and I knew he was really great on putting together not quizzes, but assessments. He is a psychologist. So I said, "If I was going to do this with anybody, I want to do it with you." He and his wife have done a great job. I've just loved working with them. I really do believe this book is going to be really helpful to people. I was sitting there reading it to myself because it was just published earlier. When I got my copies, I started reading it again, and my wife said, "You're reading it?" I said, "Yeah, it's a good book."

Roger Marsh: That's got to be a good feeling for all of the books that you have written over the years. The fact that you and Karolyn are the poster children for getting the love language thing right because everyone just expects, well, the Chapmans have it all down because they keep writing these books about this. But it must be a really pleasant moment where you do get an opportunity to see the fruit of your labor and read it, and you kind of forget yourself for a second and say, "This is really good." And you give yourself permission to do so. I highly encourage you to do so, Dr. Gary Chapman. May I affirm you in that as well?

Dr. Gary Chapman: My wife and I have tried to be real open and honest. When I'm speaking, I give illustrations of us and the problems we've had through the years. She's the editor of all my books because she was an English major. One of the things I said to her early on, I said, "Honey, if ever I say anything about us that you don't feel comfortable about, you just let me know and we'll take it out." Through the years, there's nothing she's ever taken out. She just said, "If we're going to help people, we've got to be honest about our own journey." I really appreciate that about her.

We have a growing marriage. I don't ever talk about a perfect marriage; I talk about a growing marriage. Because we're either growing or we're regressing. We don't stand still. We're either getting better or getting worse. So let's work toward having a growing marriage. I think this book is going to help people.

Roger Marsh: There is no plateau in God's economy, right? It's either getting better or worse. There is no, "Okay, well, I guess we're doing all right," and then you look up and 20 years have gone by and you're thinking, "Oh my goodness, this is awful."

We were talking to a couple recently who had that experience. They were describing their first year of marriage and the husband was saying, "I thought we were doing pretty well," and the wife was saying, "I was asking God, how much longer am I sentenced to be in this marriage?" That's when he said, "I think that's when we knew we needed to get some help." I love the fact that this book does, in fact, help us look at problems, look at solutions, and then the tactics.

Let's talk about the solution for just a moment because I think we all know basically where the solution begins. It's with our ears more than our mouth. It's sitting and actually listening. Talk about why you write in the book that listening is important and probably as important as being able to speak someone's love language—to hear what they're actually saying.

Dr. Gary Chapman: By nature, a lot of us are not good listeners. Someone—a spouse or anyone that we have a close relationship with—will say something to us about a problem that they have or something that happened at work today. We try to fix the thing before we even understand it.

It is far better to say, "Tell me more about that. I'd like to understand what's going on here." And then keep asking questions. When the other person's talking, remind yourself: I'm the listener. I'm not here to tell them something right now; I'm here to listen to them. We're trying to look at the world through their eyes. What are they thinking? What are they feeling in whatever the situation is?

We ask enough questions, then we can honestly say, "You know, honey, I think I understand what you're saying. I could see how you would think that way and I could see how you'd feel that way. If I were you, I'd probably feel the same way." And then you might say, "Is there anything I could do that you think might be helpful to you?" If something comes to their mind, they'll tell you, and then you can do it.

But if we just respond to the first thing they say and tell them what they ought to do, we don't really know their heart, and they don't feel like we know them. They just feel like you're just trying to fix everything for me. You don't really know me. And that's what we want; we want to be known. If we're sharing things beyond the surface level of life, we're doing it because we want to be known by the other person. So becoming a good listener by asking questions is a key asset in having a good marriage.

Roger Marsh: You've been at this for such a long time, Dr. Gary Chapman. I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes not only in counseling techniques but also in just the way the culture interacts with each other. A couple that had been married 30 years would come to your office in the 90s, and they're facing different situations than a couple married 30 years that's coming to your counseling office next week.

Talk about what you've observed in terms of that listening thing, for example. It seems like everybody's on the go, everybody's got a mobile device that's giving them information. Everybody's an armchair psychologist and therapist and theologian. It really can mess up the relationships in a big way. Talk about some of the changes and why this listening component really is more important today than it's ever been.

Dr. Gary Chapman: I think what you mentioned is a huge issue. In fact, I had a guy say to me just recently, "Dr. Chapman, my wife and I were watching a TV program together, which we do from time to time. When the commercials come on, we just put it on silent; we don't want to watch the commercials. It used to be we would talk to each other during that time. Now, we both pick up our phones and we both start looking at our phones."

He said, "I realize we're not spending quality time together; we're just sitting in the same room together. First our mind is on what's going on TV, then our mind is on whatever we happen to be looking at on our screen. We're not having quality time." I think that's one of the huge issues today is that we are so tied to our technology that we often are missing out on really having an intimate relationship with each other.

Roger Marsh: Listening really is the thread that weaves all five love languages together. On today's edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, we've been reminded that loving well requires both intentionality and a willingness to hear our spouse's heart. Hope you've enjoyed this meaningful conversation with Dr. Gary Chapman today here on Family Talk about the nuances of love languages and how understanding the dialects within them can deepen your marriage.

If you missed any portion of today's broadcast or if you want to share it with a friend, visit JDFI.net. Once you're there, you'll also find information about Dr. Chapman's new book co-authored with Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott. It's called *The Love Language That Matters Most: How to Personalize Love So They Really Feel It*. Again, you'll find the information about the book and the audio at JDFI.net. Be sure to join us again next time for part two of this conversation here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

For decades, Dr. James Dobson dedicated his life to strengthening marriages and families through biblical truth. That mission continues today through the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute and the Family Talk broadcast. Programs like the one you just heard are designed to help you build a thriving marriage and to raise godly children. But we can only do this work with your help. When you donate to the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, you are partnering with us to reach millions of listeners who are searching for hope and practical guidance for their families. Your generous donation helps us defend the sanctity of human life, to promote God-honoring relationships, and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a culture that desperately needs it.

To make a secure donation, go to JDFI.net. If you'd like to send your tax-deductible donation through the US Postal Service, keep in mind that our ministry mailing address is: Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Or if you'd like to speak with a member of our constituent care team, call 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825. I'm Roger Marsh, and on behalf of all of us here at Family Talk and the JDFI, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time when I continue my conversation with Dr. Gary Chapman about the love language that matters most. That's coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love.

This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.