Family Talk

Dr. James Dobson: Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute, supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us.

Roger Marsh: Welcome to Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh and today, as we prepare for the big game coming up this weekend, we’re going to feature a classic conversation featuring Dr. James Dobson and one of football’s most inspiring couples, Kurt and Brenda Warner.

Now you probably know Kurt Warner. He was the Super Bowl MVP back in 2000. He led the then St. Louis Rams to victory. Of course, the Rams have moved back to Los Angeles since then, but his journey to the championship was anything but typical. From stocking shelves at a grocery store to playing arena football, Kurt’s path to NFL stardom became one of the greatest underdog stories in sports history.

But the Warners' story goes far deeper than football success. They’ve walked through family tragedy. They’ve raised a son with disabilities, and through sudden fame and all its pressures, they stayed anchored in their faith, using their platform to serve others through their First Things First foundation.

Kurt and Brenda also founded Treasure House in Arizona, a residence helping young adults with developmental disabilities live independently. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, you’ll hear how Brenda led Kurt to Jesus Christ, how they found purpose in their pain, and why they believe God has something bigger planned for their lives. So here now is Dr. James Dobson with his guests, Kurt and Brenda Warner, on today’s edition of Family Talk.

Dr. James Dobson: Kurt, what were you thinking during that magic year when everything you did seemed to go right?

Kurt Warner: I don't know how much thinking I was doing. I think I was doing more reacting. It was unbelievable. It was something that of course I dreamed about since I was very young, but to actually see it come about and come about the way that it did was amazing.

Dr. James Dobson: Did it scare you?

Kurt Warner: No, it didn't scare me. I tried to enjoy it, but it was hard to really grasp what was happening. I remember a time when Brenda and I actually won the game to go to the Super Bowl, and it was the first time I remember really sitting back. We were in bed one night and we looked at each other and we said, "We're going to the Super Bowl."

This is actually happening. Everything happened so fast and the media and it was so crazy that it was difficult to really take it all in, but I remember sitting in our bed and we just kind of looked back over the year and just said, "Wow."

Dr. James Dobson: Brenda, were you shocked by that year? Were you shocked by the success that Kurt had?

Brenda Warner: Well, he always told me that he was good enough to do it. And then when everything started falling into place, we just had so much peace about it. And that's where you know it's God, because we just had peace in that whirlwind and everybody wanting a piece of you and all these offers coming in.

It was an amazing year, but we just had an amazing peace and just held on to each other and our kids and realized that we're going for a ride. I remember pulling up to the Super Bowl and I was in a limo with my pastors and my sister and the friend that got me saved when I was 12.

I remember looking out the window and saying, "My life's forever changed from this day on." I didn't know that we were going to win or lose. I wasn't saying that I was forecasting that, but I knew it was going to be forever changed and God had a big plan. I always had a great testimony and I'd think, "How am I ever going to share it? Nobody ever asks me to share it." And now I have to tell people I don't have time to share it. So it's amazing. It really is.

Dr. James Dobson: Let me ask the question that everybody asks you, I'm sure everywhere you go. Every interview, and you all have done a million of them. Sooner or later people will ask you if you are or have been a football fan. And the answer is?

Brenda Warner: Absolutely not. I don't like sports. Usually, they ask me why I wear my hair like this. So I'm glad that you went with that question. But once they get over what I look like, then they'll ask me that. And I don't enjoy sports. I don't understand how grown people can get so excited about putting a ball. I don't understand.

Kurt Warner: We're still working on it. Every day, a lot of work.

Dr. James Dobson: So why did you marry one of the great sports heroes of all time? Of course, he wasn't a hero then.

Brenda Warner: He wasn't a hero then. He was just really good looking then. And humble too, that's the amazing thing. When we met, I told him that I was divorced with two kids. And a few weeks later he told me he played football.

What does that mean? A lot of people play football in college and then never go on. And then when he said he was going to play in the NFL and then nothing happened. And the way the story went, I kept thinking as long as we're making ends meet, I'll stick with saying I will.

Dr. James Dobson: You were on food stamps at that time. Single mother.

Brenda Warner: Single mom raising two kids and he decides to do this arena football thing. I had no clue what it was. And he moves two hours away and I'm thinking, "God, are you sure that this is the one for me?" and I just felt like he was. He was, he was, and he was going to be worth it. It's paid off.

Dr. James Dobson: Brenda, how did your faith get you through that era? Because that was a hard time for you.

Brenda Warner: That was a hard time. I've been through a lot of hard times. This great man wrote a book about when God doesn't make sense, and that book helped me a lot because a lot in my life didn't make sense. It wasn't the story that I thought my life would be.

I just had that foundation as a young child. I knew the word, I knew the power in the Word of God and you either go through the bumpy road with Him or without Him. I kept choosing to stay by His side. And even though I didn't understand the road I was going down, it was still better than going down it without Him. And it has been a bumpy ride, it really has. Now to be able to share it with people, it seems to make more sense.

Dr. James Dobson: You had two children at that time and one of them was disabled, Zachary, who is legally blind. How did he become blind?

Brenda Warner: When I was married before Kurt and when Zachary was four months old, my ex-husband accidentally dropped him and caused brain damage. Fell in a tub. Just a lot and I'll hear through the years now I've heard, "I dropped my baby. I'm so thankful nothing happened." Accidents like that happen.

So on one hand, I'm dealing with this child in this crib that the hospital people said he's not going to make it. And on the other hand, I'm dealing with a man that accidentally did this and I'm trying to be his helper, his mate, and help him along and then help this child and believe for a miracle, believe for healing.

It was a tough time. Zachary turns 14 this month. We have disabilities. He's legally blind, like you said, and brain damage. But he's all about God and he knows God's love and he shows us God's love in every day of his life. So I don't understand it and maybe that's something I'll ask God when I get up there.

Dr. James Dobson: He's a freshman in high school. He's reading on about a third-grade level as I understand.

Brenda Warner: Right. And he has to hold things about an inch away from his eye and they're all enlarged. That type of stuff. But last night we had a birthday party and his smile was ear to ear and he was just thrilled that people were singing a song to him. The joy of the simple things is what he shows Kurt and I.

Kurt Warner: When they said that he may not live and that he would be lucky to ever sit up, no chance really of him ever walking. And so you can look at it both ways. We constantly say and believe for healing and know that God can heal him completely, but he's being healed every day in small ways.

We get to see the growth and the amazing things that he accomplishes every day is amazing to us. And so you kind of have to keep it in perspective on what they told us and where he's at now. He's a walking miracle.

Dr. James Dobson: Kurt, Brenda said a minute ago that she wasn't going to be a model although she's a very beautiful woman. But why did you as a single man with options obviously, marry a woman with two children, one of them legally blind, and take on that responsibility?

Kurt Warner: Well, the first thing was obviously I was drawn and attracted to her. And so we met and we talked and there was just something a little bit different about her. I was a college guy, she was a little bit older, a little bit more mature. That's a good thing, that's a good thing.

There was just something different about her, not like all the other college women that were out there. And so we got to know each other and met and I actually was introduced to her kids at a very early stage in our relationship.

Brenda Warner: The next day after we met, he shows up to meet the kids. So I would say that's early.

Dr. James Dobson: And that impressed you, didn't it?

Brenda Warner: It scared me. On one hand I'm feeding a baby and my son I'm in my bathrobe from the morning and he shows up at my door with a rose and says, "Can I meet the kids?" and I'm thinking, "This isn't how you date someone." You learned my name last night. So it wasn't the way it was supposed to go and it's worked out.

Dr. James Dobson: And he did not tell you he played football either at that point.

Brenda Warner: No, not at that point. I didn't know anything about him at all and so he met the kids the next day and fell in love with them first before he fell in love with me.

Dr. James Dobson: Now Kurt, you were no saint in those days. You used tough language as a football player and you had been in and around the church but really not of it. And it was Brenda who led you to the Lord.

Kurt Warner: Exactly. I was raised in the church, went to church every Sunday and all those things, but I never really understood it. I never really got it. I always felt like, "Okay, I know all these things but I have a responsibility too. I've got to make sure I live a good life. I've got to make sure I'm nice to people. I've got to make sure I go to church or I'm not going to get to heaven. I'm not going to make it."

And that was just kind of my thought process basically for about 26 years of my life that it all depended on me. What did I have to do? How was I going to earn my way to heaven? And then when I met her, we had discussions or arguments often about our faith and where she was in a relationship and where my relationship was with God and how I just wanted to keep it inside. It was between me and Him.

I didn't have to worry about anybody else or talk to anybody else about it. I felt I was fine. She had made some mistakes before as far as dating people that didn't have the same belief as her and she was dead set.

Brenda Warner: Dead set.

Kurt Warner: She was dead set that she was going to make sure that before she got married again that the person believed and understood where her relationship was and what was most important. And what a great thing to have your soulmate, your wife, be the one that probably gave you the greatest gift of all besides our Lord Jesus, is that she led me to Jesus and to that relationship.

And so not only am I indebted to her as a mother, as a wife, but for the fact that she led me to my relationship with the Lord and brought me to where I need to be and where I needed to be a long time ago. It's an awesome feeling to know you're to live with her the rest of your life, but she accounted for that biggest change in my life.

Dr. James Dobson: Shirley and I were having our devotions the other day and talking about just what a privilege it is to share this with each other. That this is not something one of us believes, but it's something we both believe. I wish everyone listening to us could say that that's the case, but it is really a blessing when it occurs, isn't it?

Kurt Warner: Oh, it's unbelievable. And to think that you could even go through this where one person is believing something different. And we've seen it in people that are very close to us that have been on actually the same sides of the fence as us. Actually, her sister and brother-in-law just recently he got born again similar to our situation. And so it's just neat to see how that works together because we've seen how it works when you're on both sides of the fence and you're trying to make it work together.

Dr. James Dobson: Going back, millions of people, I was one of them, millions of people were watching that Super Bowl game when they heard you say after the victory, "Thank you, Jesus." You said that in front of everyone. What was the reaction to that?

Kurt Warner: I think there were some mixed emotions, but most of the reactions have been extremely positive.

Dr. James Dobson: Did you get criticized for it?

Kurt Warner: There was some criticism. A lot of people since that point have said faith and football don't mix. Football should be football and your faith you can talk about it somewhere else. That was probably the biggest argument we get in regards to that.

But a lot of people that I think, parents out there always looking for people to have their kids look up to. In the sports arena especially because it's so big. There were a lot of parents out there that said, "This is finally what we were hoping for is some athletes that were at the top of their game that would stand up for what's most important because it is or has been for a while taboo to talk about those things."

And it was neat to see how God used it because I've had ups and downs all through my life coming into football and having that first season and being able to do that really set the precedence. But since then I've still had a lot of ups and downs like we mentioned this last season, but I think that they've been able to see in the high times and the low times even though the last few years that what we believe in and what we stand for stays the same.

Dr. James Dobson: It's just really curious and frankly somewhat irritating to me that in a world where there are very few decent role models for kids. If you look at the role models in Hollywood, if you look at the role models coming from the rock music industry, if you look at the role models in athletics, in the NBA, where some of the biggest stars have fathered seven kids with four different mothers and things of that nature.

To have a person stand up for what he believes and live by that standard and to be willing to do it publicly and then to be criticized for it in that kind of world, I don't understand that. But I want to tell you this, Kurt. I appreciate you being a role model and giving parents someone to point to with regard to their kids. Do you all agree?

Kurt Warner: I think you made a key point when you say there's a lot of people out there that may claim to be Christians, but they don't walk the walk. And I think that's where all the skepticism comes from is that it's easy for somebody to stand up on a podium and say, "Thank you God."

But then as soon as they turn around and go into the locker room they're using certain kind of language or they're taking part in certain things or next week they get arrested for something. And that's where I think it's been difficult is because people see us and they think, "Well, I want to believe that this guy is real, but I've seen so many people say the same things and then fall. Or I've seen so many people give God the credit for this and then this happens in their life."

And I think that's where the difference has been so far is that people have seen us in a lot of different arenas and Lord willing we'll walk the walk the rest of our lives, but that we've stayed consistent to what we believe and what we stand for.

Dr. James Dobson: It's a heavy responsibility, isn't it? Because none of us is perfect and it's difficult knowing that if you do make a mistake or if you fall or if you sin, the world's going to know it and you're going to hurt the cause of Christ.

Kurt Warner: Exactly. And a lot of people ask me, "How do you do it in this world? Is it more difficult because you're in the spotlight in the forum that we have with all the temptations and all the things going on around us?"

But what I tell them is that it's actually become easier for me to follow God since I've been put in the spotlight because I made that statement on the podium at the Super Bowl and hundreds of millions of people saw it. And since that point, I've realized what the responsibility is to uphold that name. That I set a precedence then and so it's really held me accountable to what I believe in and what I stated that I'm going to be a guy that stands up for what he says, for what he believes in, and I'm representing Jesus.

Dr. James Dobson: You also have a foundation called First Things First. Describe that.

Brenda Warner: As you know, when Kurt got on the podium he said, "First things first, thank you Jesus." And so we've taken that from Matthew 6:33 when you seek ye the kingdom of God and His righteousness, all other things shall be added unto you. And that's Kurt's life verse and we started this foundation to just reach out to all different walks of life, all different types of people that we can.

We've been there, we've walked there in their shoes in our life and we just want to be able to give back that full circle and just show them that God's a good God and that He loves them. And we are praying about new ideas, new open doors all the time.

And He's really brought our foundation along. We've done some great things from taking kids to Disney, Make-A-Wish kids and their families and spending the whole week with them to just even we have a Sunshine Ministry that's homeless men and we take them to church with us Friday night and then Saturday they go do community service and Sunday they come to a football game that they would never be able to go to. All different types of things and we're excited about it.

Dr. James Dobson: Now you have not had smooth sailing throughout your life. We talked about your son, we talked about the time when you didn't have enough food in the circumstances that you were in. But it goes back before that. You lost your parents in a very tragic way, didn’t you?

Brenda Warner: I did. It was April 14th, 1996. I got a call at 10:00 from my sister and I said, "Hurry up, Mom's calling," and she said, "No, they're not. They were killed two hours ago in a tornado."

And my world was rocked. The thing with Zachary with all that I went through with him, I still had him and I could still hold on to him. And all of a sudden my parents are just gone and it was awful. Dad worked hard his whole life to make it good for us and we didn't live on a lot. He worked from paycheck to paycheck and it was a good life.

But he retired after 30 years at John Deere making tractors and built their dream home so he could fish and Mom could quilt. And all of a sudden a tornado comes and takes seven people in that tornado and my parents happen to be two of them. It was very difficult because the Christians would say, "God called them up," and "God knows what He's doing" and all these things or "At least they went together" and it was very difficult because I thought, "At least I want one parent if I can't have both" and I just didn't believe that God killed them.

And I'd read in the Word that the devil comes to kill, steal, and destroy. But God was right there when they were killed. And I know that I'll meet them someday and maybe again I'll ask God, "Why didn't you stop that tornado?" I would like to know that.

I miss them terribly. I've had two kids since and I have another one on the way and every good thing you think of them because it's not as good as it could be. And they knew Kurt, they loved Kurt and it's difficult, it still is.

I hope that I can just be real to people and say that I don't have it all worked out. I can't tell you all the answers of why things happen and why things happened in my life but I've noticed that I can help people along in their own struggles that they can feel comfortable saying, "I don't understand, but I love God and God's a good God" and go with that. Maybe ask questions later.

Dr. James Dobson: Do you understand emotionally that God more than likely put you in the situation you're in right now for His own purpose? To represent Him and to speak for Him and to lead others to Him.

Brenda Warner: Right. It's bigger than just my grief and my little world. Like I said when I can stand up in front of people now and say that I love God and it hasn't been easy but He's a good God and He's going to work things out for good.

And if the good is for me to encourage them to just keep plugging along and stay next to God and draw close to Him. I remember opening the word and just reading about sweet sleep and I remember praying that I could just have one night of not dreaming about Mom and Dad because every night that you go to sleep you dream about them and you think they're alive and then you wake up and realize they're not and you grieve all over again. I remember just praying for sweet sleep and getting it. Just the little things like that.

Dr. James Dobson: I didn't mean to imply that God's responsible for the death of your parents. I just know that God uses those circumstances and obviously He is for you all and I just pray that you will continue to be up to the challenge that may be even tougher than being quarterback. Do you agree with that?

Kurt Warner: I don't think there's any question about it. No question about it.

Dr. James Dobson: Kurt, the journey up from obscurity to fame is a short trip. The journey down can be pretty difficult, I'm sure you're aware of that. Now I don't want to depress you but because I've been there and it's tougher being nobody when you've ever been somebody. At least you've had your day in the sun. The question is how are you going to cope with that?

Kurt Warner: Well, I guess we'll have to see. I don't want to deal with it for a while yet. But I think I'm going to be fine with it. I'm believing that when I'm done with this area of my life and playing football and the opportunity that the Lord's presented me there, I believe that there's going to be some other big opportunities presenting themselves when I'm done playing.

I really feel that God's raised us up for a particular purpose and to take advantage of the things now, but really building a platform and building our faith and shaping us and molding us so that when I'm done playing football it's not going to stop there.

I'm going to have plenty of opportunities to stand up, whether it's being a minister to a church, whether it's having a traveling ministry for the two of us, whatever that may be, I believe He's setting the groundwork now so that we can continue on when we're done.

It might not be the same as playing football and being in that spotlight, but it'll be in the spotlight for Jesus and really what we have a heart to do. I don't think it's going to quit and all of a sudden I'm just going to fall off the face of the earth and never do anything again. There's going to be a lot out there to do.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, let me just say again how much I appreciate you all being with us and have a great year.

Kurt Warner: Thank you very much. Appreciate being on.

Roger Marsh: What an inspiring story of perseverance through unimaginable circumstances. The Warners' journey from food stamps to the Super Bowl and from tragedy to triumph shows us what it means to trust God in every season of life.

You've been listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, revisiting a memorable conversation Dr. Dobson had with Kurt and Brenda Warner, very appropriate for this weekend with the big game coming up on Sunday. Now if you missed any part of today's broadcast, or if you want to share it with a friend or family member, visit JDFI.net.

And speaking of trusting God, I want to tell you about a resource that can help strengthen your own faith during difficult times. We've created a free 10-day email series called When God Doesn't Make Sense. It's based on Dr. Dobson's best-selling book with that same title.

As Brenda Warner shared on today's broadcast, she found this book incredibly helpful during her own journey because, as she recalled, a lot in her life didn't make sense. This email series explores the depths of hardship and examines its purpose, showing how dark valleys can bring life's greatest blessing, which is a closer walk with the Lord. You'll receive insightful messages that can strengthen your faith and help you understand that even when we can't see God's hand, we can trust His heart. To sign up for the free 10-day email series called When God Doesn't Make Sense, go to JDFI.net. You'll land on our landing page and then search for that title, When God Doesn't Make Sense.

If this ministry has been a source of strength for you or your family, please consider partnering with us. Every gift truly makes a difference. You can make a secure donation when you go to JDFI.net. That's J-D-F-I dot N-E-T. Or you can call a member of our constituent care team at 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825.

And keep in mind, you're always welcome to reach us through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Well, I'm Roger Marsh and from all of us here at Family Talk and the JDFI, thanks so much for being with us today. Join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love.