Family Talk

Dr. James Dobson: You're listening to Family Talk, the Radio Broadcasting Division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today.

Roger Marsh: Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh. As we observe Memorial Day today and honor those who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our nation, it's fitting to reflect on America's unique place in world history. Our founding was indeed providential, and throughout our history, brave Americans have defended liberty both at home and abroad. On today's edition of Family Talk, Dr. Dobson welcomes author and speaker Dr. William Bennett, who served as Secretary of Education under President Ronald Reagan and later as Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy under President George H.

W. Bush. Dr. Bennett is also a prolific author whose books include the Book of Virtues, Tried by Fire, and the focus of today's discussion, America, the Last Best Hope. During this fascinating conversation, Dr. Dobson and Dr. Bennett will explore America's remarkable founding, the character of leaders like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln, and why our country continues to be a beacon of hope for millions all around the world. They'll also discuss the challenges facing our republic and why preserving our heritage matters so deeply. On this day of remembrance, we reflect not only on those who gave their lives in service, but also on the enduring ideals they protected.

Let's listen in now for this inspiring discussion on America's enduring legacy of hope here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Dr. James Dobson: I don't ever remember starting an interview with an author by saying, what's the significance of that title? But in this case, I want you to express it.

Dr. William Bennett: It's Lincoln's words, of course, as so many of our words about our country are Lincoln's or Washington's. He said in a speech, a talk, a message he sent to Congress, he said, we shall nobly save or meanly lose this last best hope of earth. The words are beautiful as they often are with Lincoln. What perhaps is more interesting is when he said it. He said we were the last best hope of earth after the Battle of Antietam, sometimes called the Battle of Sharpsburg.

Dr. James Dobson: Yes.

Dr. William Bennett: The bloodiest day in American history, still 21,000 casualties, 22,000 casualties at that battle in Maryland, not far from where I live. I drive out there sometimes on an early morning

Dr. James Dobson: Uh-huh.

Dr. William Bennett: and look at the the battle scene. It was touch and go. It wasn't clear whether this nation would survive. It wasn't clear whether the Union would prevail. Lincoln was assailed on many, many sides. I've sent a number of messages to the White House along with the book about reading about Lincoln during his time. His cabinet was not with him. The man who was running the war for him, General McClellan, people thought, you know, he might take try to take control of the government and military too.

Dr. James Dobson: In fact, if the North had lost that battle, Lincoln would have probably been thrown out of office.

Dr. William Bennett: That's right. He they were very close to Washington, and there was that chance. There was the chance at Gettysburg. You're you're exactly right. And I mean, it was touch and go. It was not at all clear that we would survive, but Lincoln said at the time, we are the last best hope of earth. And it struck me in writing this book at this time that it's right to say it again. If you are sitting in some godforsaken place in the world, if you have no hope, if there is a military coming over the hill with a flag, what flag do you want it to be?

Despite what our critics say, people all over the world want it to be the United States, the flag of the United States.

Dr. James Dobson: I I came to Washington

Dr. William Bennett: means deliverance.

Dr. James Dobson: I came to Washington to hear you speak when you were Secretary of Education, and you used the phrase then that you've referenced in this book again. You called it the Gates Test.

Dr. William Bennett: Gates Test, yeah.

Dr. James Dobson: And remember that day that you spoke for us? Explain what the Gates Test is.

Dr. William Bennett: Yes. I refer to it in the book. You're absolutely right. When I was Secretary of Education, I taught at 120 schools around the country, and a young woman in San Diego said, you you obviously love the country. She said, I'm not so sure about it, but why do you think it's such a great place? I said, well, we'll take you know, I'll give you a reading list, but I said I'll give you a short answer. I said, every country has its gates. I said, and when a country raises its gates, you want to find out about the country, you look to see which way people run.

Do they run in or do they run out? I said, when we raise our gates, people run in. When we don't raise our gates, people run in, which is why we're talking about this immigration issue. Other nations raise their gates and people run out. I said, that's a very good test of what a country is. And from the beginning, people have fled to this country, have looked to this country.

Dr. James Dobson: Hmm. Yeah, given that historical fact and the way it is today, isn't it amazing that there's such a sizable number of people in the media and in the liberal community that despise this country and its freedoms and are doing everything they can to undermine it?

Dr. William Bennett: It's It's never been this bad in terms of the media. I wouldn't say that presidents haven't had it this hard. They have. Lincoln was one. But in terms of the media, it has never been like this. David McCullough says that that if Washington or Lincoln had had to face the press and the press reports that you have now, these things wouldn't have been won. If Washington if the reports of the battles

Dr. James Dobson: Uh-huh.

Dr. William Bennett: Washington lost more battles than any general in modern history. Luckily, he won some big ones, and he he pulled some very good surprises off. But that if it'd been reported, the discouragement would have been so great.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, you you made reference a minute ago to the fact that this great experiment in liberty that Lincoln spoke about is is not a foregone conclusion. We could lose it. And it's probably in as much danger right now as it has ever been, including the Revolutionary War.

Dr. William Bennett: Absolutely. We could lose it. I think it's a very serious time. And the question I have is whether we have the cultural resolve, the moral resolve. No doubt about our soldiers, no doubt about our military, their ability to get the job done, and the kind of people we have. But whether we have it culturally, whether we will call things by their right name, whether we will endure. The founders, and I talk about this in the book, hoped that we could survive for 100 150 years. That that was their hope because places of this size, democracies, republics just don't have a history of surviving very long.

So we've you know, we've set a record. But the question is, Jim, as you say, whether whether we will endure. I I do think I don't want to just hit the you know, the thing again, the cliché about you know, those who don't study history are condemned to repeat it. But

Dr. James Dobson: Uh-huh.

Dr. William Bennett: one of the parts one of the parts of the book that people have picked up on is our war with the Barbary Pirates in 1800. This was our It was our first war with Muslim. You know what they were doing? They were kidnapping people, holding them for ransom.

Dr. James Dobson: Still true. That's what Muslims were like.

Dr. William Bennett: And at the time this was going on, there were about a million and a half Christians being held as slaves by Muslims, Muslim warlords. And they were taking our ships and then making us pay ransom. And Jefferson, and I have kind of on and off Jefferson, you know, yes and no. I got to tell you, on this one he said, we're not going to take this. We're not going to let these people get away with this. And John Adams, he said, I'm not sure you can fight these people. Why? He said, I think if you fight these people, you will be fighting them forever.

This is 1800. 1800. Well, 200 years later, the fight still

Dr. James Dobson: Because of the religious fanaticism that values death. Now I'm not implying that all Muslims are violent. I'm sure of what I've been told that the vast majority are peace-loving people who would do us no harm, but a small percentage of a big number is still a very big number. And there are, I'm told, 1.2 billion Muslims on the face of the earth. And if 10% of them believe the Quran instructs them to kill infidels, which would include us, that is 120 million people who would give their lives to destroy us. But let's assume that figure is grossly overstated.

If only 4% are fighting the jihad or the holy war, that still means 48 million people want to kill us. You know, that's a threat of enormous proportions when you start talking about nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.

Dr. William Bennett: You're exactly right. That's 48 million. We saw what 19 could do on on 9/11. Bernard Lewis, who is the great scholar of the Islam, retired professor at Princeton, I was with him not long ago. I asked him the exact question. I said, of the 1.2 billion, he said 10 to 15%. That gets it up to 200 million. I mean, that's a it's a whatever, whether it's 50 or 200.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, that explains why you say our national life

Dr. William Bennett: That's right. And then we And then we look at the numbers out of Great Britain where they did those polls after the July 7th killings in in London and 13% of Muslims in London said they supported the suicide bombers. 13% of 2.2 million. That's a significant number of people.

Dr. James Dobson: Now you know what? I unplanned for us to talk about all this on this program because your book is not just on you know, the threat to this nation. It's the great heritage of this nation and the stories. And we've got a whole lot more to talk about here.

Dr. William Bennett: Yeah. It's the story. It's the story. The story.

Roger Marsh: You're listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk in an interview featuring Dr. Dobson and author and speaker Dr. William Bennett. They've been discussing America's rich heritage and storied legacy since its founding. The United States have been a symbol against oppression and a bastion of hope for the oppressed. But our nation is not without its flaws. Let's join Dr. Dobson and his friend Bill Bennett once again as they tackle a few of the darker parts of our nation's history. Of course, we're imperfect. We have some very embarrassing components to our history, slavery and some of what we did to Native Americans.

That was evil. That was wrong. But there's also an awful lot that's good here. It's less than perfect, but find me a better one.

Dr. William Bennett: Right. That's right. And and the amazing thing about America is and I tell the story. I mean, I tell the stories of the of the of the wicked things, the atrocities and in an unblinking way. But the amazing thing about this country is the capacity to recognize a problem and to deal with it. Sometimes it takes us too long as it did with slavery and emancipation, but we get there. But this capacity to set it right, self-renewal, one of the figures in the book, a giant figure for me Frederick. You know I knew you were going to say that.

Frederick He just is just larger than life. And I love his quotes. You know, he meets Lincoln and someone says, you met the president. You know, this black man goes in and meets the president. He says, yes. He says, what did you think of the president? He said, well, he's intelligent, but he's got some growing to do. So you know, he this guy was I guess if you are a slave and you gain your freedom one day by you know, when you the man they had on the plantation there in Eastern Maryland, who was there as the slave breaker, this is the guy who's to break the will of a slave, anybody who shows any gumption.

Dr. James Dobson: Yes.

Dr. William Bennett: And when Douglas turns on him and pins him, he realizes with the help of a couple other people too, he realizes then that there's only one way he can go, and that's all out, you know, and strong. And so then he goes. He goes to Boston. He goes North. But he remains a very strong supporter of Lincoln, a very strong Republican. And this is just a historical fact. I'm not advocating, but I

Dr. James Dobson: This is not a political editorial, right?

Dr. William Bennett: No, this is not a political editorial. And again, his his way of presenting things and his impatience for justice and his talk with a number of his of the of his friends were very active to get the vote for women. And he said, fine, important, but us first. They 're not lynching you. They're lynching us. We're first. You're second. They wanted him to put things on equal plane. He said one thing at a time.

Dr. James Dobson: Didn't he say something about the the Constitution had not one word in it that authorized slavery? But it had the foundations within it that ended slavery.

Dr. William Bennett: That's exactly right. Exactly right. Exactly right. He said that, and in saying that, he he said something which was then later picked up on by Martin Luther King, who goes back as Douglas did and as Lincoln did to the founding documents, to the Constitution. But even more, and of course, you know, this is a big debate among the scholars, which is the document, Constitution or Declaration? I'm a Declaration man for a couple of reasons. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

And Douglas goes back and says, that's the foundation. That's the foundation of our freedom. But he is a fabulous fabulous character and I mean, all these all these wonderful stories.

Dr. James Dobson: We are jumping around chronologically here, Bill, just because that's the way the conversation has unfolded. But you spend a lot of time talking about George Washington here. He was not just the father of our country and the first president, but the character of that man comes through. Explain why.

Dr. William Bennett: Yeah. My favorite story, it's a commonplace, but I love the story. It's about character. At the end of the war, a lot of the soldiers wanted to march on Philadelphia to get their money. And Washington was trying to discourage them. Not a good way to start the government, which is to hold the Congress at bay at point. I understand the temptation. I've been there a couple of times, but it's not a good idea. So he's trying to persuade them. And he was another one of his things is you know, he was not a great public speaker, but he remembered something that someone had given him a slip of paper.

So he pulled it out of one pocket, the other pocket, he pulled his glasses out. And his men had never seen him with his spectacles. And he noticed that he heard the crowd go silent. And he said, I see that you noticed that I wear glasses. He said, well, it was to be I have not only grown old and gray, I have become almost blind in the service of my country. That simple, unrehearsed, spontaneous statement, and everyone started to cry. They were reminded of who this man was and what he had done for the country.

The respect for him, this is one of the ironies I talk about, was so great that several of the founders pointed out that we almost blew it. We almost went back to monarchy because the regard for him was so great. The first proposal for his title, you know, they had to we had to rename things. We had to rename who our commander in chief would be. The first title John Adams came up with it was his glorious Highness, the President of the United States and glorious protector of the Liberties of our Liberties. And William McClay from Pennsylvania said, what's with Adams?

Doesn't he understand what we fought this thing for? It's to get rid of all that stuff. But such was the regard for him.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, you know the reason that I consider him to be such a hero is right along this point that almost no one in human experience gives up power willingly.

Dr. William Bennett: That's right.

Dr. James Dobson: It is intoxicating. And once you have it, you don't want to let it go. And he could have been king.

Dr. William Bennett: That's right.

Dr. James Dobson: But he served two terms as president and would not accept even a third term. And and you talk about greatness, that really speaks to me.

Dr. William Bennett: Exactly right. The world was watching and then and George King George said it was this moment whether he would give up his power. Said if he gives up his power as he said he will, he will be the greatest man in the world. And he did it

Dr. James Dobson: Did did he say that?

Dr. William Bennett: And he did it without a moment's hesitation.

Dr. James Dobson: Hmm. Another of your heroes in this book. This is just one story right after another that give you a sense of pride and dignity, not arrogant pride, but thankfulness and gratefulness for the leaders that that the Lord gave us. And especially when we consider what was going on in the rest of the world at that time. I mean, the French Revolution resulted in all this killing in the streets. And and then of course, the British had had their Civil War. And and here right in the middle of that is this ultimate statement of a representative form of government, a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

That makes me want to cheer. And it makes me want to defend this country, and it makes me angry when I hear the media assaulting what we have stood for.

Dr. William Bennett: Right. You bet. You should. I know.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, let's press on. Bill, let's turn our attention now to our 26th president, Theodore Roosevelt, who really had just about everything going for him when he was younger.

Dr. William Bennett: Yes, had the had the silver spoon, had had all that Harvard, but didn't let it hold him back. A guy just full of energy and drive for for his country, full of patriotism. When he was police commissioner in New York, he walked the beat at night, you know. He walked in the middle of the night to find out if everybody was doing their job. He was an extraordinary human being who had a deep and and just pervasive sense of right and wrong. When he went West out into the Dakotas where he developed his great love of of America, he you know, these these two guys stolen something from him.

He went out. He captured them, brought them back, both of them back.

Dr. James Dobson: Well, his style was to speak softly and carry a big stick.

Dr. William Bennett: Sure was.

Dr. James Dobson: Still kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

Dr. William Bennett: Yes, we have an American, Porticara, who was kidnapped by Rasuli, who's this chieftain and Barbary chieftain. And he's some question about whether he's an American citizen. Roosevelt assumed he was an American citizen. And this this chieftain over there in Morocco takes kidnaps him and you know, Roosevelt gets a wire back, and he sends a wire back immediately. He said, Porticara alive or Rasuli dead? No, don't mess with the American citizen. I want my citizen back or you're dead. I will send the US military with all its might. And I come back to what I was saying, how impressive our entrance into Afghanistan was and the beginnings of Iraq and where American military power is used, when it's when it's presented, it needs to be unambiguously powerful.

Dr. James Dobson: It should not be sparing. If you're going to go in there, get it over with and get out.

Dr. William Bennett: It shouldn't be And I think our willingness to exercise military power in in a way that is unambiguous is in some ways a measure of our internal confidence. Now if if I'm sounding bloodthirsty to the audience, I just want to point out and remind people, the last seven times that the United States military has been deployed, it has been deployed to save Muslims, to save Muslims. Go just go through it. Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Somalia, exactly right. I mean, just you just keep going. And And we have done this and done it

Dr. James Dobson: Kosovo, Somalia

Dr. William Bennett: and have liberated in the last seven deployments 50 million or more Muslims.

Dr. James Dobson: I am proud of the work that you've done with this book, Bill. I do hope that our listeners, and especially their older kids, will read this book.

Dr. William Bennett: It's not a heavy tome. I it's the great story of America. I mean, and the story is full of romance and drama and comedy and humor and characters like you wouldn't believe. This is a place not only where people have dreams, but the dreams actually come true. They really do come true.

Dr. James Dobson: You have called it, in fact, the second greatest story ever told.

Dr. William Bennett: Absolutely. That's right.

Dr. James Dobson: After the great story of Christ coming, this is the greatest political story.

Dr. William Bennett: That's right. That's correct. It is the greatest story. And people come here in hope um and uh in you know, one of the reasons I wrote this book was to correct the revisionist stuff. I told you the last time I was here, there was a history book. They now changed it that defined the Puritans as people uh of the 17th century who took long trips. People from England who took because they didn't want to get into the religion thing, you know, because that's not appropriate to talk about in schools. Don't you understand?

Dr. James Dobson: Baloney. The title of the book is America, the Last Best Hope, Volume 1 from the Age of Discovery to a World at War by Dr. William J. Bennett. Um have the best days gone forever for this nation?

Dr. William Bennett: I don't think so. I think our greatest days are still ahead of us because the influence now on the world that we have had I mean, the founders hoped we'd last 150 years. We've we've beaten that record by by a bunch. And now we move on. But this is the challenge. The challenge that is before us is as great as anything we've ever faced.

Dr. James Dobson: Liberty is never guaranteed. It must be cherished, defended, and passed on to future generations. You're listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk and a thought-provoking journey through America's heritage featuring Dr. Dobson and his special guest Dr. William Bennett. Now if today's program sparked your interest to learn more about American history, I encourage you to visit drjamesdobson.org/familytalk. There you can listen again to the program. You can also share this conversation with friends and family. And that's also where you'll find a link for Dr. Bennett's book called America, the Last Best Hope. It's the perfect resource for anyone who wants to better understand the exceptional journey of the American experiment.

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PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80949. Well, I'm Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. Dobson and all of us here at the JDFI, thanks so much for making us a part of your day. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love.

Roger Marsh: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.