Save America Ministries

Chuck Crismier: This is Viewpoint with attorney and author Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is a one-hour talk show confronting the issues of America's heart and home. And now with today's edition of Viewpoint, here is Chuck Crismier. Across from the broadcast desk today is the picture of a woman. If you were to look at this picture with me, you would say that she's probably one of the most feminine women in the world. Certainly, would rank among the top. She happens to be my wife. And we were married in 1966. We were we met on the front steps of her church in 1964.

One year, one year after a woman by the name of Betty Friedan decided to launch her book called The Feminine Mystique. The Feminine Mystique, a term coined by her in 1963 to describe what she called "the false societal belief that women could only find fulfillment through homemaking, child-rearing, and serving their husbands." Well, it promoted an idealized image of women as happy domestic housewives, stifling individual potential and causing widespread psychological distress, she said. And she said it was a problem that had no name. So she made up this idea, The Feminine Mystique.

I asked the infinite wisdom of AI what that really meant. Here was the answer. The happy housewife myth, a manufactured image that women were naturally suited for and desired only domestic life. Limited potential, the widespread idea that education and careers were not for women who would hinder their femininity. Societal pressure, media and cultural narratives pushed women back into the home following World War II, making them feel unfulfilled for wanting more.

Interesting, though, before World War II, they seemed more fulfilled. So what happened? Well, they were pushed into the workforce. Psychological impact, women felt lonely, unfulfilled, and guilty for wanting education or careers. And then there was a focus on suburbia, she said. It primarily reflected the experiences of white middle-class suburban women. A totally artificial view, said Betty Friedan in her 1963 book, that took over America by storm.

Well, where do we stand today? Still many young women are holding on tight to career first ideals, since our guest today, an NBC decision desk poll found that among Gen Z women who voted for President, former Vice President Kamala Harris, during the 2024 presidential election, the top marker of success was having a job or career that you find fulfilling. While being married and having children ranked near the bottom of their desires and hopes.

Even among women who voted for Donald Trump, career fulfillment was second only to financial independence, far above marriage or children. For Trump voting men, however, having children came first. The data suggests men are rethinking success around family, while women are still measuring it by career. Wow, what a statement, 60 years after Betty Friedan gave her the 1963 Feminine Mystique.

Also, right after my wife and I were married. So, what kind of a life have we been living? Well, you might ask a lot of people what kind of life we've been living from coast to coast, because my wife has been very involved in our life together. My life, our life, our children's lives, ministry, family, others, hospitality, encouragement, and yet, I would dare say, most would say she's as feminine as you can get.

So today on Viewpoint, we have a special guest, Emma Waters joining us. She is a very beautiful young lady. Generation Z, she looks a lot like what my wife looked like 60 years ago. And she's joining us here today on Viewpoint. She says she's a policy analyst for the Center for Technology and the Human Person at the Heritage Foundation. Her work focuses on family, bioethics, and reproductive technology. She's been around. Contributing author of World Magazine, graduated Valedictorian at Lee University. Boy, this girl has gone at all, friends. You'll want to see her smile and she's joining us here live on the program today. Emma, it's good to have you on the program.

Guest (Female): Hi, it's great to be with you today.

Chuck Crismier: Well, this Valedictorian thing, you can be a male and you can be a female. You've got a male at this end and a female at the other end of this broadcast. Both Valedictorians. So we can both do it, can't we?

Guest (Female): That's so true.

Chuck Crismier: And my sister was Valedictorian at Biola College. So, you know, you can be brilliant as a young lady or brilliant as a young man, or do whatever you need to get ahead and that's what our culture provides, doesn't it?

Guest (Female): That's precisely right. It shouldn't be a masculine or feminine virtue whether you pursue excellence in your education and whatever the Lord has put before you. And it sounds like that's what your family has done so well.

Chuck Crismier: Well, indeed. When we were married, my wife had no expectation whatsoever of being, going to college. Just didn't fit with her family expectations. Only her mother had gone to college, at least for two years, to get a nursing degree. But beyond that, there was just no thinking that college was necessary for women or even helpful. And so my wife had an expectation to become a wife and a mother. And to fulfill all of those things that were normally there in the early 1960s as as part of what it meant to be a woman in America, especially a Christian woman.

So what happened? Was my wife out of sync? Did she somehow miss the boat from God's viewpoint or from America's viewpoint? What happened to our society?

Guest (Female): No, it's a really, really good question. And there's a couple of things that I think are worth pointing out here. The first is that when it comes to college and higher education, we should always start with the question of what are we actually hoping to get out of it? What does it bring to our life? And I think there are certainly, I think there's certainly the case to be made that especially in the 20th century, higher education had a very particular specialization purpose to it. So my grandmother went to college to get her teaching degree through that. And she ended up working as a teacher at various points in her life.

But unless you were going for a very particular thing, there wasn't really the need to go to college, spend a certain amount of money and time just to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree. It very much was what is practically good for the life you want to live. And that's very much the case today. So in the case of your wife, who's a very good aspiration of being a wife, a mother, a homemaker. That was something she had learned probably from her mother, her extended family, even in home economics classes, potentially in high school, and was well equipped for the task at hand. The real problem occurred in the 20th century, when Betty Friedan and a number of others changed the conversation and said, "Well, actually, it's not so much about being equipped for the life that you aspire and being a wife and homemaker should be a primary goal in that as a woman."

"And a mother is as many children as the Lord gives you, but actually your self-worth, your actual self-actualization as a woman really relies on your ability to get certain degrees and show that you can hold your own in the professional world."

Chuck Crismier: That becomes equal with the men around you.

Guest (Female): Exactly. Yes. A concerted effort to really move women out of the home and move them into the workforce.

Chuck Crismier: All right. We're going to pick up on that after the break, friends. Our guest today, Emma Waters, has written a book called Lead Like Jael, or Yael, actually, in the Hebrew. Yael. Seven timeless principles for today's women of faith. We've got a long way to go from this conversation into that conversation and we're going to get there. Stay tuned, friends, you're listening to Viewpoint.

Chuck Crismier: Once upon a time, children could pray and read their Bibles in school. Divorces were practically unknown, as was child abuse. In our once great America, virginity and chastity were popular virtues, and homosexuality was an abomination. So what happened in just one generation? Hi, I'm Chuck Crismier, and I urge you to join me daily on Viewpoint, where we discuss the most challenging issues touching our hearts and homes. Could America's moral slide relate to the Fourth Commandment? Listen to Viewpoint on this radio station or anytime at saveus.org.

Chuck Crismier: Again, I welcome you to Viewpoint. I'm Chuck Crismier. Our conversation is always with ever-increasing conviction, Talk that transforms. Today, we're talking about a subject that for some people, might kind of stir up a bit of ire, maybe hear the hair stand up on the back of your neck or whatever. Because we're caught in the midst of cultural pressures and experiences that have largely affected our culture, and indeed, the church itself.

So, we hear the word Feminism. What does it mean? What does it mean to be feminine? It seems that Feminism is a completely different thing from feminine. So, why was the pressure in 1963 to focus on Feminism, which is an Ism or a belief system, as opposed to being feminine? Well, the question then would be, what does it mean to be feminine? Or what does it mean from God's viewpoint to be feminine?

So I happened to look that up for the same source, the same godly source, of course, AI. Artificial intelligence will tell us what that means. According to biblical principles, God expects women to cultivate inner beauty, specifically a gentle and quiet spirit while living with virtue, strength, and integrity. Key expectations include loving God first, serving others, acting with wisdom and kindness, and managing responsibilities such as family and work diligently and without fear, involving inner character, virtue and strength, a good work ethic, kindness and wisdom, relationships and faithfulness, fearing the Lord and following Him, rather than being defined by societal standards.

Well, you see the contrast. The contrast is immense. So then I asked the question, well, what does Feminism look like today? Here's the answer from the same source. Modern Feminism, often described as the fourth wave, is currently defined by its focus on intersectionality, digital activism, and inclusivity. It centers on bodily autonomy, sexual harassment, and reproductive rights, with a diverse range of voices leading the charge toward gender equality, utilizing social media for swift mobilization.

Notice not one single characteristic that the same source, AI, said was a biblical view of what it meant to be feminine. Interesting. So, we're now not only in the second wave of Femininity that Betty Friedan brought to us in 1963, but we're in the fourth wave of that. What's that all about, Emma Waters, our special guest today?

Guest (Female): Feminism at the fourth wave is a contradiction in and of itself. Not only is it an ideology, as you described it, but it's an ideology inconsistent with itself. Meaning that unlike earlier eras of the feminist movement, which I don't ascribe to, but certainly looked different. Fourth-wave feminism has heavily relied on things like transgender rights, asking, what even is a woman? And it's hilarious because the very movement aimed at promoting women's rights now can't answer the question of what a woman is.

Chuck Crismier: Even in the Supreme Court Justice.

Guest (Female): Exactly, including our Supreme Court Justice. So instead, feminists are finding themselves cheering on the first woman to do fill in the blank thing, but it's actually just a biological male. It's the ultimate rejection of what it means to be a woman. And so this is where you've seen a massive split, even in fourth-wave feminism where you have those who consider themselves trans-exclusionary radical feminists, those who are pro-trans feminists.

And it ultimately all comes down to the bad fruit of feminism in the first place, which was to say that there is no essential difference between men and women. And then instead of cultivating masculine and feminine virtues, we should simply aim to be people. Androgynous, um, no sexual differentiation that matters. Sex doesn't matter, biology doesn't matter. That's why we can all have careers. That's why we can all work. That's why we can do all of the same things. And so the natural end of that, of course, is transgenderism, the very thing that actually rejects and attacks.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't that fascinating? Well, I'm looking at your wonderful picture and that of my wife across from the broadcast desk, and I got to say that there ain't no way that these pictures would reflect the kind of feminism that we're hearing is the fourth wave of feminism today, or even Betty Friedan feminism back in 1963.

So somewhere in between, there is a real answer. And I was trying to think about what should we call this program today? And here's what I said. You might you may think of something different. What women want, what every man needs, and the tent peg strategy to achieve it. What do you think?

Guest (Female): I like it. I think you're right on track there.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Well, that's wonderful to know that we're right on track. But you have chosen a very strange name for your book. It doesn't sound very feminine. Lead Like Jael, J A E L, who was a woman that actually brought a strange victory to Israel when a leader of the opposition came running to her tent for safety.

Guest (Female): Yes.

Chuck Crismier: And he was laying there in her tent, she gave him some milk, he fell asleep, and the rest is history. What happened?

Guest (Female): So, this is a rather unconventional example of biblical femininity. But you're exactly right.

Chuck Crismier: I would say so, girl.

Guest (Female): Many people scratch their head and said, "Well, what are we supposed to do with this story? This Midianite woman who welcomes a Canaanite general, the enemy of God's people, of Israel, into her tent. He asked for water, she gives him milk. He lies down and falls asleep, then she drives a tent peg through his skull." Thus soundly defeating Israel's enemy.

And so on the one hand, feminists have said, "See, she's the true feminist icon. She subverted the patriarchy, she took control of her life, she fought like a man. This is exactly the kind of feminist messaging we want to see. Shame on Christians for trying to suppress the story of Jael." And on the other hand, there have been Christians who would say, "Well, I don't know what to do with this. Did she murder him? Did she kill him? Has she violated the Ten Commandments?" Why is it that in the very next chapter, Deborah, a prophetess in the Bible, actually praises her for being the most blessed among women and fulfilling the prophecy that she had given? And notably, the only other woman to receive that same blessing of most blessed among women.

Chuck Crismier: Mary, mother of Yeshua Jesus.

Guest (Female): Exactly. And so you so you're sitting there and you're like, "Well, I don't think she's a feminist icon because the Bible's not a feminist text. But clearly, the Bible is condoning what she has done in a way that I think we should pay more attention to." So, what is that? And so the case that I that that really spoke to me is that in thinking about Jael's story, she's obviously not giving us a prescriptive plan. We shouldn't all be taking up tent pegs and trying to drive them through anyone's temple. This is not a practical application in that sense. But there is a spiritual application that I think is actually incredibly powerful for women today.

And that's this, in her time, setting up and taking down tents was a feminine domestic duty. And essential for that task was the use of that wooden tent peg and wooden mallet. So to be a faithful wife and mother and homemaker, Jael would have used those same tools to set up and take down her tent hundreds if not thousands of times, securing her home against the elements and forces of destruction that were outside of it.

So when Sisera comes stumbling toward her tent, first, she's politically engaged, she knows who he is. Second, she is present in her home. And it's only because she's present in her home that she's there to welcome him. And third, and and most importantly, here, the only way that she was actually equipped to defeat Israel's enemy when he came knocking at her tent flap door, was because she had been faithful to the daily duties and responsibilities that the Lord had given her as a wife and homemaker. And so notably, she doesn't pick up a sword, she doesn't run into battle. And no woman in the canonical Bible ever picks up a sword to fight.

She's at home, it's defensive, but it really hits home this reality that I think Christians across the United States have seen, especially in the last 10, 15 years, is that regardless of if you're willing to engage in the fight, the enemy is always ready to engage with you. And evil will come knocking at your door, whether you like it or not. And so the question is, as women, are we being faithful to what the Lord has given us, and in that faithfulness, equipped to fight evil when it inevitably is coming to knock at our door?

And powerfully in Jael's story, she was equipped, not because she went out there and got a career or did any sort of thing that our feminist worldly standards would say she should do. But she was actually equipped to fight evil when it came knocking at her door because she was faithful to those daily callings of wife and homemaker and mother.

Chuck Crismier: Well, that certainly describes my wife. She never picked up a nail that she liked. Certainly not a tent peg, unless it was a tent peg for one of our camping tents many, many years ago. But she has been willing to stand in the evil day against all that would come against our family, against our children, and so on.

And so, in our day and age, the things that we would pick up or that a woman would pick up, uh, certainly she's going to pick up her vacuum to keep her house clean, and she's going to do the same thing spiritually to keep her house clean of the evil one and the things that were come against her. I have in front of me, Emma, a printout of the address by Paul Harvey called "If I Were a Devil." Several years ago, I, excuse me, several months ago, I actually did a program, If I Were a Devil, the devil. And so I ask you a question, just very simply, if you were the devil, what would you do to distort God's view and purpose for women?

Guest (Female): Hmm. You know, I have seen a few versions of this that I think are are really powerful. But it seems like you would tell women that the home doesn't matter, that having children is optional, it's an accessory, it's something you do when you feel like you're ready, if you if you want to do it. It's purely, it's purely about what makes you happy and what brings you fulfillment. Your goal should be to develop and actualize your own independent gifts. Um, and if that's leisure or restful time or time out with your friends, then that's the most important thing. Uh, and sort of lull women into this false sense of security that the greatest fight before them is the fight over male oppression or unequal pay in the workforce or some sort of social justice problem that's out there that doesn't touch their home. Um, and really get them to stop thinking about their own actions and their faithfulness, um, in their own life. And and have them worked up and and overcome with crises and problems across the world that they may or may not have any ability to impact.

Chuck Crismier: You know, I don't think I could have done a better job of stating that than you have just stated. You've done an excellent job, Emma, and I really commend you for that insight. Because the devil's been very active. And if we're in the season of the near edge of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, he would want to distort everything. He would want to distort the creation ordinance of God at every level. We find that in Genesis chapter one and Genesis chapter two. He would want to kill off all of our children in the name of getting ahead. He he would want to distort everything, and that's exactly what he's done. Friends, you might want to get a copy of this very fascinating book, Lead Like Jael or Jael. Seven timeless principles for today's women of faith. We're going to get into those seven timeless principles after the upcoming break.

You're going to want to get a copy of the book, $27. We'll put this hardbound $33 book in your hands. It's on our website, saveus.org, saveus.org. Give us a call, 1-800-SAVE-USA, that's 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, ready to check at $6 for postage and handling. All right, Emma, how many kids do you have?

Guest (Female): We have two children and one on the way.

Chuck Crismier: Aha. All right, and uh, how old are your current children?

Guest (Female): We have a three-year-old, a one-and-a-half-year-old, both girls.

Chuck Crismier: Mm-hmm. And the one on the way, do you know?

Guest (Female): She's also a little girl.

Chuck Crismier: Aha, we have three little girls ourselves. And one of those little girls, they're all very, very different. One of those little girls, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, and started college when she was 16, and wanted to be a lawyer just like her husband, just like her father. What you didn't know was that I practiced law for 20 years as a trial lawyer in California. And she wanted to be a lawyer just like me. And as she weighed that, she said, you know what?

I really think my higher calling is to be a mother, a wife, and then being those things principally, to do what God would put in my hands. Well, she served me part-time now for 35 years through this ministry, Save America Ministries. But, boy, I'll tell you, she is she is the top-notch multi-achiever in that sense, but she is fastidious about holding the fort for that family and making sure and now her kids are, uh, 27 up to 33, all all four of them. And she has set that as her primary goal. It's very unusual in this day and age. And I want to have you share with us these timeless principles, seven of them. We've always got to use the number seven or 10 or 12. Seven is a good one, the perfect number. And you're going to share those with us after the break. Friends, Emma Waters, our special guest today. The book, Lead Like Jael or Jael. We'll be right back.

Chuck Crismier: There is so much more about Chuck Crismier and Save America Ministries on our website, saveus.org. For example, under the marriage section, God has marriage on his mind. Chuck has some great resources to strengthen your marriage. First off, a fact sheet on the state of the marital union. A fact sheet on the state of ministry, marriage, and morals. Saveus.org, marriage, divorce, and remarriage. What does the Bible really teach about this? Find all of this at saveus.org. Also, a letter to pastors, the Hosea project, saveus.org and many more resources to strengthen your marriage. It's all on Chuck's website, saveus.org. Again, you can listen to Chuck's viewpoint broadcast live and archive. Save America Ministries website at saveus.org.

Chuck Crismier: Again, I welcome you back to Viewpoint. I'm Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint does determine destiny, or viewpoint concerning women, concerning men, uh, concerning the role of women, what it means to be feminine. All of these things are determining destiny. In fact, have determined the destiny of 65 million of America's children since 1973. All largely driven by the feminist movement that began in 1963.

So you see, viewpoints have consequences, life or death even. And so what we want to do for the balance of the program today is look at what God may have for women, even women who have the ability to be very clear, well-spoken people, such as our guest today, Emma Waters. And so Emma, before we go further, let's get a balance in your life. You know, as a trial attorney, I have to evaluate whether or not you're qualified as an expert witness. And so you you said that you have two children, one on the way, and you're married, right?

Guest (Female): That's correct. Yes.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. And what does your husband do?

Guest (Female): So my husband is actually a full-time student studying to get his Masters of Divinity to be ordained as a minister. So, full-time student, uh, working on top of that, but we are in, yeah, he is getting his master's degree right now.

Chuck Crismier: Well, isn't that wonderful? And what are you doing?

Guest (Female): So right now, I am working for the Heritage Foundation, as a policy analyst. I wrote a book recently as well as part of that work, um, but yeah, my husband and I have been very intentional in this season where he is a full-time student to craft a family-first mentality where we are, uh, both working. Him more part-time, me more full-time in this season of life. But doing so in a way that actually allows us to optimize me part-time with our children, and him his focus on his studies in this season of life.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so you're really focusing on those things and trying to maintain a balance, and it's very hard to maintain a balance under those circumstances. My wife and I had to deal with the very same thing. You know, earlier on, my wife finally decided after the encouragement of her husband, by the way, yours truly here on this end of the broadcast, that given the situation in our world and culture at that time, she would feel much better about herself if she did in fact get a college education. And so she decided to do that. And of course, that put more pressure on us, because now I'm working, I'm going to school, and I'm putting her through school, all at low income. And so those put pressures on you. And then when I went to law school, in the evening, I was teaching full-time, and, uh, you know, starting a family. And those things put pressures on you. And, uh, there's no question about it. If you're going to follow the Lord, there are going to be pressures that are going to come upon you in the work-a-day world and even in racing a family, aren't they?

Guest (Female): That's precisely right. I, you know, I think it's one of those interesting generational breakdowns, or not even generational, but just the the time we live in, where prior to the COVID pandemic, my job, for example, would have required me to be in the office 40 hours a week, five days a week, um, fully present. If you're not in the office, you're not really working mentality. And I think that was the case and that was the reality of jobs outside the home for so many years.

Following the pandemic, all of a sudden, it became very normal to work remote, to work flexible hours, and to really think about your day first as a home economy, where it's your family, it's it's your home life, and then structuring your work and your other output accordingly. And some jobs allow for more variation than others, of course. So in our own life, it's been a huge blessing where as a researcher and writer and speaker, it provides me a lot of flexibility. So, in this season of life, and this is not a prescription for everyone or even the ideal, but it is working right now while my husband is in school.

I will get up around 4:45 in the morning to start work so I can knock out three hours of work before our girls even wake up for the day. And then we only need to account for two hours outside of that. And so it's been a huge blessing working for an organization so supportive of family, and really being able to craft this with my husband on the same team where we can put our children first, but fulfill the responsibilities we have outside of that as well.

Chuck Crismier: So if you were to, uh, just state in in just a few sentences what your ultimate purpose is, uh, in, uh, bringing this book to the fore for women, what would you say?

Guest (Female): My ultimate purpose is to encourage women to put first things first. To be open to marriage, to cultivate the gift of children. If you are married and you do have kids, put that first. Um, and then trust the Lord with everything else. Whether that's work that you do outside of that, whether that's passions, projects, or dreams, or volunteer work, or whatever it is the Lord has put on your heart, put first things first, honor fully the responsibilities and demands of being a wife and a mother, especially when you have younger children or children at home who benefit from and require your presence. And then trust the Lord with the rest and see the ways that he is so generous to bless us beyond that.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so, uh, when I said that I had given this title, what women want, what every man needs, and the tent peg strategy to achieve it, uh, that you said was a great summary of what your your goal was in this book.

Guest (Female): Yes, I think so. Yes.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. Wonderful. So men really want what you're talking about.

Guest (Female): Yes, I think so. What man doesn't want a battlemate wife beside him, fulfilling the mission God's called them to?

Chuck Crismier: He doesn't want somebody competing with him.

Guest (Female): Competing with him or competing with the family even, with the way she spends her time.

Chuck Crismier: Exactly, both and. Yeah. He doesn't want a competitor. He wants a helpmate. He wants somebody to come alongside.

Guest (Female): Exactly. Exactly.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now, you have seven particular points that you call them the seven pegs, uh, analogous to, uh, what Jael did there, uh, driving a tent peg into a tent peg into the head of, uh, Sisera. And, uh, let let's go through these one at a time. Discernment. That's the first one. What do you determine discernment to be?

Guest (Female): Discernment is basing your decisions and submitting all of your thoughts and emotions and feelings to the ultimate authority, which is the word of God. So that you are not led astray by other cultural lessons or feelings or what the heart wants in a given moment.

Chuck Crismier: All right. That is a terrific statement. That is a tr I'm not going to ask you to repeat it because that might be difficult. But, uh, that is a terrific statement, well-spoken, discernment. We definitely need more discernment in our culture today, even in the church house, I think.

Guest (Female): Oh, big time. I think this is the basis of what women need to cultivate to be wise and faithful women in the world today. Because ultimately if women, and and everyone, but certainly women, where I really have been thinking about this, as they lack discernment, they will become pawns of the schemes of the enemy. And they will find themselves falling prey to so many worldly, um, passing teachings and teachers that have nothing of truth in them, nothing of the abundant life that God promises us. And so they'll just fall for lie after lie, distortion after distortion. And ultimately, like the Bible says, "Lady Wisdom builds up her house, but Lady Folly tears it down." And if you don't have discernment, whether you intend to or not, you will be tearing down your house as a woman because you'll be making it weaker and more susceptible to the attacks of the enemy.

Chuck Crismier: It seems to me that, uh, the spirit of feminism has actually at the very foundation of the divorce culture since 1968, when Ronald Reagan, uh, inaugurated no-fault divorce there in California and said it was the worst thing he ever did in his life. Uh, and I agree with that. I had to deal with it as an attorney there in the largest family law court of the nation, the Los Angeles Superior Court system. And 80% of my clients came from the broader body of Christ and I can't tell you how horribly God's people were infected by the spirit of feminism.

Guest (Female): Oh yes. Feminism has become the third rail that even in the church and even in Christian circles you're not allowed to attack it. You can attack a version of feminism. You can say, "Well, feminism wasn't all good," but if you say feminism itself has been a cancer and a destructive force, all of a sudden, even the most faithful churches get really uncomfortable and don't want to talk any further with you.

Chuck Crismier: Well, a pastor can't bear to deal with it because he feels like he's threatening his congregation, and then what's going to happen to the ties and offerings of the building program?

Guest (Female): This is certainly true. Yes.

Chuck Crismier: All right, you talk about shrewdness. That doesn't seem to be a word that we would normally use. It sounds a little secular. Shrewdness. What do you mean by that?

Guest (Female): So the Apostle Paul defines it well in the New Testament where he says, "You were called to be shrewd as a serpent and as innocent as a dove." And so this principle of shrewdness is diving into what it means to be strategic, um, and very smart as Christian women in the way that we are engaging, particularly in those instances where we are up against an attack from the enemy.

Now, the way I address shrewdness in this chapter is I'm really looking at very particular instances. And typically when we see shrewdness in the Bible, we see a weaker party responding to a stronger party. And we see people who are put really with their backs against the wall. They've tried everything else. There's no, there's no other option, and then they they utilize the spirit-fueled shrewdness to navigate their way out of the situation. So it's not necessarily something you encounter every day or even every month, but there are going to be times in your life as a Christian where you your back is up against the wall, you are certainly the weaker party, you're calling upon the Lord and you're saying, "Okay, what is shrewdness? What is wisdom? What is discernment in this moment?" It builds on discernment because you're having to then say, "Okay, how do I navigate this moment?"

And to be very clear, this is not a permission slip to be deceptive. This is not a permission slip to be manipulative or um, pervert a situation for selfish gain. But it does look at stories like the Egyptian midwives who were asked by Pharaoh to murder newborn baby boys of the Israelites so that they could weaken so Pharaoh could weaken their population.

Chuck Crismier: Right.

Guest (Female): And instead they said, "No, we fear God more than man," and they lied to Pharaoh. And he he blessed them for it.

Chuck Crismier: All right, we'll be back after this, friends. We've only covered two of the seven. We're going to get to the others in the next 12 and a half minutes. Stay tuned, Lead Like Jael. Emma Waters, our guest. The book. $27 on our website, saveus.org, make sure you get it. We'll be back.

Chuck Crismier: Again, I welcome you back to Viewpoint. Let me just share something with you before we move further here. Our special guest today, Emma Waters, is a member of the Generation Z era. The largest population generation in the history of the country, even larger than the baby boomer generation, out of which my wife and I came.

It is also declared by both Christian and non-Christian leaders to be the most godless generation in American history. It is also the generation that is said by both by sociologists, both Christian and otherwise, to be characterized by a failure to launch. In other words, lacking the foundation that stability to be able to press forward, to actually carry on what normally has been expected, to be members of the family, male or female, to start families and so on.

Just maybe our special guest today, who happens to be a member of Generation Z, is the ideal voice to be able to assist those of you who are listening who are of the Generation Z, or maybe millennials, or maybe you are not of a millennial or Generation Z generation, but you have daughters or daughters-in-law who are. What a book this is. This is a message for our time. And I urge you to get a copy of it. $27 will put Lead Like Jael in your hands. It's on the website, saveus.org. You can call us at 1-800-SAVE-USA. You can write to us at Save America Ministries.

PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, ready to check at $6 for postage and handling. And Emma, it seems to me that this message actually is a big, important message if we even had any hope of saving America.

Guest (Female): This is the essential message. But I wrestled with this question while writing the book, which is, am I writing for an audience of women that exists so much of the headlines that you see about women is that women are girl-boss oriented, they don't care about marriage, they don't care about families. And then writing a book about how women should care about marriage and families and practically here's how you do it in your own life. I kept wondering, "Oh no, is there going to be a shift in the culture of revival?"

Chuck Crismier: Welcome to Save America Ministries and what we've been doing for 33 years here.

Guest (Female): Exactly. Amen. And it's been so encouraging because as we are just starting to see in the last couple of months alone, is Gen Z women in particular have tasted the fruit of millennial feminism, of girl boss feminism, and increasingly so, they want a refund. They are realizing that they have been sold a bag of goods that their predecessors are lonely, they're tired, they're burnt out, they're not happy. And these are social reported studies, they're not happy. And they're starting to say, "Well, maybe putting career first actually was never the answer." And so there's a shift in Gen Z back to valuing marriage and motherhood. A study by EDU Birdy just came out recently saying that 47% of respondents said that they would prefer to be a tradwife, or a traditional wife over 23% who said they wanted to be a girl boss.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't that astounding? That is astounding. So it is what women increasingly are wanting, what every man needs and is going to need, and you're giving us the tent peg strategy to achieve it. And we've just dealt with the first two pegs, discernment and shrewdness, resourcefulness. Every woman who's going to fit this mold is going to have to be resourceful. My wife certainly is, and it sounds like you are too. What does it mean?

Guest (Female): Resourcefulness is beginning in the home and working through the home for everything that the Lord has put before you in your husband's life, in your life, and the life of your family, the life of the church. It's viewing the home as the central place of action in the life of a woman, not the barrier to her success, but actually the very means by which she will thrive in any of her given tasks and duties in whatever season of life she's in.

Chuck Crismier: You know, when my wife and I were married, she yearned for a husband who had a vision for hospitality. And I grew up in a pastor's home. Uh, five kids in the home and so on. But, uh, we didn't have much in the way of, uh, uh, financial resources, to put it mildly. In those days, uh, they thought of pastors, "Lord, you keep him humble, we'll keep him poor." And so we didn't have much in the way of financial resources, uh, for what you might call hospitality. But for seven years, in our first seven years of our marriage, my wife just felt very cheated that I just did not have a vision for hospitality. And so eventually, somewhere after the seventh year, the Lord began to open my mind and my heart to how important it was. Where the Apostle Paul says, it's an essential part of the Christian life. Where he said, anybody who aspires to leadership must first be a lover of hospitality, and be given to hospitality. And it was almost like a light went on. And hospitality began to be a given in my life and we began to work together. And then we became known across the country as the hospitality people, and actually wrote a book called The Power of Hospitality, an open heart, open home, uh, and, uh, open hand, will change your world. So, this matter of hospitality is a big deal, isn't it?

Guest (Female): Oh, it's essential to the very heart of God and the very message of the Bible. Because how does the Bible begin? It's God's relational Trinitarian love overflowing in hospitality. This will still hospitality to create the world, to make space for something that isn't God. Humans, creation, the created world. And Jesus said, I go to prepare a place for you that where I am, there you might be also. I mean, that's the hospitality, the very heart of the gospel.

Chuck Crismier: Oh, 100%. When I sat down to write the chapter on hospitality, where I really focused on hospitality as social resistance and this God-given mission all Christians are called to, um, it was the longest chapter I wrote the first time around because there was so much that the Bible said about hospitality. I said, how can I even cover all of this in a given chapter? Not to mention, looking at the story of Esther, who really embodies these virtues so incredibly well.

Guest (Female): All right. Well, that's item four. Marriage on mission. What does that mean?

Chuck Crismier: Marriage on mission is the chapter where I dive into, uh, the calling of wives to be the battle mate to their husband. Now, the hierarchy head is still the the husband is still the head of the wife, the wife submits to the husband, but the phrase Ezer Kenegdo that we see in Genesis two, the helper suitable for Adam that he's looking for is I can actually be translated as battle mate. And so throughout the Old Testament, you see that phrase used to describe God coming to the aid of Israel or David and his mighty men coming to the aid of Israel in a time of need. And it's the sense that the battle mate is a stronger party, essential for the completion of the task at hand. And it's this beautiful vision of husband and wife, not in a battle of the sexes, where they're rivals or antagonistic toward one another, as our flesh and our culture often encourage. But rather as battle mates, called together to be on the same team, uh, in pursuit of the glory and and faithfulness to the word of God.

Guest (Female): You know, my wife would love to hear you say these words, and she has been exactly that. She had known when we got married what the course that God would lead us through and to, and how to get there. Uh, she might not have signed up for the task, but she has been there at every turn and challenges to the max. Absolute challenges to the max, worthy of a whole book by itself. So, yeah, uh, marriage on mission, marriage is a mission and you're on mission and there's a reason why you're together.

Chuck Crismier: Motherhood is warfare. How's that?

Guest (Female): So, Motherhood is Warfare is a very fun chapter where I dive into a lot of different stories of women navigating this call. But the main message of the chapter is that ultimately motherhood, uh, one, children are a gift in and of themselves. They are a delight, a blessing from the Lord that we should pursue. They're they're a blessing and a good thing in our life. But second, that the Lord does not call us simply to have children for the sake of having children, but like arrows in the hands of a mighty warrior, we are called to discipline, disciple, nurture, and form those children into faithful disciples that we can launch out into the world.

Chuck Crismier: Well, said that children are a message that we send to a world that we will never see.

Guest (Female): Exactly. Exactly. Yes.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. Wise counsel and negotiations. Spiritual matriarchs. In my book, Hearts of the Fathers, I talk about spiritual patriarchs. We have very few fathers who aspire to be a patriarch. In fact, very few fathers, period. But very few fathers who aspire to be a patriarch. When women rule over their households, is that the kind of matriarchy we're talking about?

Guest (Female): No, not at all. So the matriarch here is thinking about the the final stage of a woman's life where she becomes the embodiment of Lady Wisdom. This wise counselor and negotiator who has been faithful throughout her life to what the Lord has given her or through repentance, right, has come to the Lord and is now seeking to take that wisdom she has been given and pass it on to the next generation. So look at women like Deborah or Elizabeth in the New Testament or Miriam as she sings over the people of Israel. These are women because of their age and because of their faithfulness and wisdom, the Lord has placed in a far more public and prominent position to really steward and direct the next generation.

Chuck Crismier: Hey, did did God have gender bias when he called, uh, when he personified wisdom as feminine?

Guest (Female): I think he recognized that women are relational, and the best way to learn wisdom is through relationship. Ultimately, relationship with Jesus Christ, but it's embodied through the feminine, which is very relational at its heart.

Chuck Crismier: And that's good. I have learned so much about you, Emma, in the last 55 minutes. Really. Uh, and I think our listeners have caught your heart, have understood with your very clear articulation of this message, uh, in ways that very few people, very few women, I think, would be able to do. And so I I give you great kudos for that. You have spoken like a true woman of God. Seven timeless principles for today's women of faith, friends. Lead like Jael. It's quite a an interesting title and moniker from which to begin, but it's what every woman want, what every man needs and it's a tent peg strategy to achieve it.

$27 will put this book in your hands. Uh, it's it's a hardbound book on our website, saveus.org. And, uh, I I really think I would recommend it to every woman whether you're in the, uh, generation Z, millennial, Generation X, uh, whatever generation you are, baby boomer, doesn't matter. Because there's always someone in your midst that is going to need this message and be encouraged by it. It's like paddling a canoe straight up Niagara Falls in the midst of our culture. That's what we were talking about earlier. So get a copy of the book on the website, saveus.org, give us a call, 1-800-SAVE-USA, 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, writing a check at $6 for postage and handling, and become a partner, friends. Look, uh, we trust God to provide the means to keep this program on the air.

We trust God, and God trusts you. So our trust isn't in you, our trust is in God. He's the one that called us to do this 30 year, uh, 33 years ago, as a voice to the church, declaring vision for the nation, America's greatest crisis hour, on the near edge of the Second Coming. That's what he called us to do. So our trust is in him. Then he trusts you to hear the message and respond and say, you know what, we really need to get this message out and I can't be on the air like Chuck is, but I know that this is needed, and we want to get it out as far as we possibly can. Wherever we are, whether we're in the Northeast, Northwest, whether we're out in the middle of Alcatraz, uh, San Francisco Bay, where one of the towers is that airs this program right next to the famous Alcatraz, wherever it is, your help, your partnership is necessary in order to make it happen. Do it today, don't wait for the other guy to do it, he's not doing it. So, uh, do it today, go to the website, saveus.org, become a partner, write a check, uh, sign up for being a a regular partner, an automatic gift each month. Whatever works for you. But don't delay. Don't be a professional procrastinator. Thanks for joining us here on Viewpoint. God bless, be a blessing, and remember, ladies, lead like Jael.

You've been listening to Viewpoint with Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is supported by the faithful gifts of our listeners. Let me urge you to become a partner with Chuck as a voice to the church, declaring vision for the nation. Join us again next time on Viewpoint, as we confront the issues of America's heart and home.

Guest (Female): Hanging in there with me, Emma?

Guest (Female): Yes, doing great.