Save America Ministries

Chuck Crismier: One of the five men, young men who lost their lives in the missionary effort to the Auca Indians back in the 1950s, one of them said, "He is no fool who gives up that which he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose."

I've never forgotten that. The other thing that I can't forget in line with this line of thinking is, "Only one life will soon be passed. Only what's done for Christ will last." But what do those things mean? Are they just kind of idle quotations that have a nice sound to them? But what if the nice sound turns into something pretty ugly? What if indeed it costs you your life?

Well today on Viewpoint we're going to be talking about that, about a very interesting situation that occurred in a not too distant country from the south of our border. Haiti is the third largest country in the Caribbean by area, with an estimated population of over 11 million. It's the most populous Caribbean country.

It shares an island of Hispaniola with the Dominican Republic. By the way, they're just completely divided off. There's no interplay between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. They are so dramatically different. One wonders why. Maybe we'll find out here on the program today.

But with Port-au-Prince as its capital, Haiti is currently under a strict Level 4 "Do Not Travel" advisory due to extreme crime, civil unrest, and suspended US commercial flights. Haiti holds the historic distinction of being the world's first independent Black Republic and the only nation formed through a successful slave revolution. The country officially gained independence from France on January 1st, 1804.

Its vibrant culture combines African, Taino, and French influences, featuring two official languages: Haitian Creole and French. The country continues to navigate a multifaceted crisis, prompting the United Nations and international partners to deploy a multinational gang suppression force to help restore security.

Due to these security challenges and ongoing states of emergency, the United States Department of State advises against all travel. All travel. So today is not a travel agency report. It's not an effort to try to motivate you to venture to the nation of Haiti.

So why would we be talking about it here today on Viewpoint? Well, the reason we're talking about it is because there are those who have gone there at the call of God to minister to the people in Haiti. You say, "Why would they do that? It's so dangerous." Well, why did those five men, those five young men back in the 1950s, go to the Auca Indians who were reported to be savages and indeed perhaps even cannibals? Why did they go there?

Because they felt strongly God called them to do so. And yet they were educated young men. They had a whole future ahead of them. And yet they lost their lives. But the story didn't end there. Because one of the wives, Elizabeth Elliot, ended up translating what happened there among the Auca Indians into more and more revelation of how God works and how indeed she forgave those Indians, the men, the very men who killed her husband and the other men, and the story went around the world.

We just don't know, we just don't know friends what happens when martyrdom takes place in the name of Christ. Martyr, the word martyr means witness. And today on Viewpoint we have a story called Strong to the End. David Lloyd is joining us here to talk about two young people who went to Haiti where he himself was deployed by God to minister to the people, and the unfortunate things that happened there and the tragedy that took place.

David Lloyd joining us from Oklahoma today. David, it's good to have you on the program, my friend.

David Lloyd: Yes, thank you. It's a privilege to be here.

Chuck Crismier: Well, what the story that happened was back in 2024, just a couple of years ago, right?

David Lloyd: Yes, May 23rd, 2024.

Chuck Crismier: So it's pretty fresh in your mind and heart.

David Lloyd: Very fresh.

Chuck Crismier: And so I'm looking at the front of your book. It's a small book but it packs a wallop of information and also translating the heart of the ministry that you yourself were engaged in and have been for 28 years. Strong to the End.

And right on the front cover is a picture of a young man, apparently fairly tall, and a beautiful young woman who happens to be his wife. They were relatively newlywed it seems but their life didn't endure to any retirement future, did it?

David Lloyd: No, they were married less than two years.

Chuck Crismier: Less than two years. Well, you are the father of David, aren't you?

David Lloyd: Yes, that's correct.

Chuck Crismier: Okay, so David was your son. How old was he when he went to Haiti?

David Lloyd: First time I think he was four weeks old.

Chuck Crismier: Really?

David Lloyd: Yeah, we had come out that summer and we'd been in Haiti for two years, Alicia and I and my wife, and we came out for the birth of our son and to start our mission organization, our non-profit organization to do the work there in Haiti.

Chuck Crismier: And what led you to Haiti? I mean here is a nation that very few people would want to visit. In fact, it's almost like the people who are there don't want to be there either. The gang warfare, it's such an upsetting place, a totally contrary than its adjoining country the Dominican Republic. So what goes on there? What would draw you there?

David Lloyd: I grew up in a very mission-minded church and we had a missionary come through when I was a young boy and spoke on Haiti. I don't know, just something in my heart I felt like the Lord spoke to me and said "someday you'll be there". Of course as I reached my teenage years and finished high school I argued with that, with the call that God had placed upon my life and enrolled in the community college to do something else. I was going to actually try to go along the line of being a teacher here in the United States and running from the call of God, making excuses and all of that.

Chuck Crismier: Wait a minute. Are you saying you were like Jonah? You were trying to run from God?

David Lloyd: I wasn't aware of it. I wouldn't go in the opposite direction. But yeah, I was trying to figure out because you get the thoughts "well I was a young child it was just an emotional experience that I had". But I finally was praying and I just said, "Lord if this is really what You want me to do You got to give me a desire to do it".

By halfway through my first semester there I was just miserable and we had a missionary come through that presented a very mission-minded Bible college that he was part of and I said, "Alright God, I'm going to go to that Bible college there in Missouri next year and you'll just see how you open the doors and how we'll end up, how I will end up eventually being in Haiti".

Chuck Crismier: Are you talking about the Ozark Bible College?

David Lloyd: Yes, that is correct.

Chuck Crismier: So you went there. How long were you there, all of your educational career or not in college?

David Lloyd: It had a three-year Bible program and a four-year, I finished the three-year Bible program.

Chuck Crismier: All right, well pick up on that after the break. David Lloyd joining us. You don't want to miss the rest of the program friends. David, yes, he is straight out in his conversation but let me tell you the pain behind it. We'll be right back.

Today we take a look here on Viewpoint at what modern day martyrdom looks like. What kind of sacrifices are we called to make as Christians? We don't necessarily know that we're going to incur death on behalf of the Lord but it could happen. And depending upon the nature of the situation in which we're called, there are various areas of the world that are quite dangerous. One does not think of Haiti just relatively south of our border as being so dangerous, but apparently the United States State Department thinks it's one of the most dangerous places in the world.

And yet our guest today, David Lloyd, felt a distinct call to go there where he did after marrying his wife in 1997. Together they went to Port-au-Prince. What is Port-au-Prince?

David Lloyd: It's the capital city of Haiti.

Chuck Crismier: How would you describe it? Does it have a big capital building and wonderful gardens out there and everything is wonderful, everything is cool with Georgian buildings and streets of gold? Is that what it looks like?

David Lloyd: Not now. Of course, when we went in '98 it was a lot different. You know, they did have the capital buildings which collapsed during the 2010 earthquake. So since we first landed in Haiti there, got off American Airlines back in 1998, things have changed dramatically.

You know, we went from where we used to be able to go out after dark to you can't, many streets you can't even go down because gangs control it now. Very, very dangerous situation throughout the Port-au-Prince and the capital there and the surrounding. And now the gangs are continually moving farther out into the country and taking over the villages that consist of mud huts and fishing villages and farming villages and just true, pure wickedness is the only way you can describe it.

Chuck Crismier: David, I remember distinctly my father was a pastor for 50 years. Long about sometime in the early 1960s, went with a group of pastors to Haiti. Some sort of a missionary effort there. I don't recall at that time what his impressions were, but I think his impression was that it was a very poor country.

David Lloyd: That is correct. Yeah, they've been dealing with poverty for many, many years. I know my mother-in-law, she had gone to Haiti unbeknownst to her daughter and myself until the day we actually flew to Haiti. Alicia was two years old when her mom and dad had won a trip through work to go on a cruise.

The cruise ships was actually still landing in Haiti at that time. And it landed, just up to recently they were landing in the north but now all that's been suspended. But they landed in the north and just because of the poverty my mother-in-law saw, which would have been about 1976, her heart was just burdened when she got back on the ship as the poverty that she had seen and she said a little prayer to the Lord at that time. She goes, "God I don't have much but whatever I have you can have it for Haiti". And of course she was thinking money-wise. Little did she realize maybe she was committing her oldest daughter to Haiti at that time. But she shared that story with her daughter actually the day we were leaving to go to Haiti for the first time.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't that amazing? So there's an interconnection.

David Lloyd: So be careful what you pray when you're on a cruise ship.

Chuck Crismier: Yeah, you never know what cruising could do for you. Just ask Peter. He was asked to walk on water as a result of a cruise he took with Jesus, right? Well, in a sense you were almost asked to walk on water going into a nation like Haiti, not exactly a friend to grace as we would say it. Certainly not something that fits within the mind and picture of freedom in the United States of America. But I have a fascinating question. I think it's fascinating. If this is the first country that was formed by Blacks for Blacks, why then is it so dangerous?

David Lloyd: Well, I've been asked that question so I always answer it twofold. I answer it first without the spiritual side of it. It's just been a country that has had corrupt leaders that when they're in leadership it's "get all you can get". It doesn't matter, I think under possibly when your father went you mentioned, it would have been Duvalier, Papa Doc as he was known during that time.

Chuck Crismier: Right, I think that's true.

David Lloyd: Yes. And so they, according to whatever I've read, they just cut all the mahogany trees down that was keeping all the erosion from happening. And when Haiti was founded, when they got their independence 200 years ago, it was the richest country in the world considering how much it would produce per acre. Supposedly per acre in what it would produce as far as growing crops with sugar cane, coffee being some of the main exports at that time.

Chuck Crismier: Well it sounds like what happened to Venezuela. Venezuela was one of the richest countries in South America and when communism took over it became one of the poorest.

David Lloyd: That's correct. And then look what happens in our country, our own country, in Democrat-controlled cities. That's where all the problems are. That's where the greatest crime is. That's where the greatest misuse of government is. What's going on here?

David Lloyd: Well I had a pastor once, his words he always described it was "the insanity of sin". When people are living in sin they cannot think correctly. So if you're a Christian you have Christ in your life, you're able to see the bigger picture, you're able to think correctly. But when you're serving the devil and you got sin in your life, you're not able so to think correctly, so you just mess things up.

And that would be the spiritual explanation of Haiti and why it is, because of the voodoo being so strong there. Supposedly they dedicated Haiti to Satan in order to get victory over the French back in 1804 when they was trying or they started it in 1792 and then eventually got their freedom. But so at that time, I said that's the spiritual aspect of it when you dedicate a country to Satan and even if they hadn't officially done that and that's just hearsay but just the voodoo that is so open throughout the country.

I mean our church was right next to a voodoo church there outside of Port-au-Prince and the voodoo priestess and the priest that we've seen and dealt with over the years. It's very open and very readily available throughout the whole country. And the Scripture says the devil's out to kill, steal and destroy. So I said that's a prime example of what has happened in Haiti and its today.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't it interesting that the Haitians gained freedom from France that delivered them into the bondage of Satan? It's just an unbelievable story. Just an unbelievable story. Very painful story and there doesn't seem to be any hope other than a massive move of the Holy Spirit to bring the people to their knees in repentance before Christ.

David Lloyd: That's right. And that's one of the things we thought we'd see with this gang situation. And it's not that there aren't people praying. The Haiti has a church that prays. Even in fact when we were there in March visiting with the children, the one night after we left at 6:00 they had the kids come in and have devotion and then they had a four-hour prayer meeting for their country.

So there is a praying church there but it's not large enough yet to combat all the forces of evil. And so we're just trusting that there will be a revival. That's what I always ask people to pray: that either international force goes in to kind of make the gang situation manageable for the Haitian police or revival break out and the gangs get saved and the country turns around because that's what it's going to take to cause long-lasting results.

Chuck Crismier: So the gang situation is that like a Haitian Mafia?

David Lloyd: Not anymore. It probably started somewhat like that. But now these gangs have just become very powerful with high-powered weapons and more and more guys because they control areas so either you join the gang or you don't eat. So they have a lot of 12, 13, 14, 15-year-olds that are their soldiers they call them now that's on the front lines. And if you don't do what they say then you don't eat. They control them through food and it's a very sad situation and some of them that's even been in our school and our church now has had to join up with the gang because of that area being controlled by gang.

Chuck Crismier: Well David, that's a very difficult, difficult situation in which to have been placed by the Lord 29 years ago, and it hasn't improved since, has it?

David Lloyd: No, it's continually got worse. When we went it was not the gang situation wasn't there. I mean there was some petty crime but there wasn't like it is now. In the early 2000s some gangs started up and then they lasted for about three years, '04, '05, '06 and then with kidnappings and different things.

In fact, our kids were kidnapped and held ransom overnight. That was pretty pop- a thing that we was dealing with during those years. But that was put down in about January 2007. And then the earthquake, the major earthquake happened in 2010. So from what I can tell is a lot of money came in as a result of that 2010, so that kind of kept the country calm there for several years until all the money got used up and dried up. And in about 2017 you started seeing these gangs pop up and then by 2020, 2021 they've become very powerful and continue to get stronger by the day.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so what's the name of your ministry? What do you go by?

David Lloyd: We go by Missions in Haiti Incorporated.

Chuck Crismier: Missions in Haiti Incorporated. You started it 29 years ago.

David Lloyd: We went to Haiti first two years and then 26 years ago started Missions in Haiti. So Missions in Haiti as an entity has been around for 26 years.

Chuck Crismier: Is it under any particular denominational host or is it just independent completely?

David Lloyd: We're independent.

Chuck Crismier: Well good. Okay, I think that's a good thing. So you're under Christ, not under a denomination.

David Lloyd: Yes. We grew up in a denomination but we've been independent.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Jesus didn't grow up in a denomination by the way, and neither did his apostles. The only apostle that grew up in a denomination was called Pharisees and that was the apostle Paul. So that might not seem fair you see, but he was a Pharisee.

All right. Now, you have been continuing to minister. You started a local church fellowship there. How are you able to minister amidst such chaos and such continuous threat of violence and control?

David Lloyd: We bought property outside of Port-au-Prince, the organization did in 2007. And so that's where we established our children's home, our schools, and our church. It had been functioning up till that night, up till May 23rd, 2024. Actually, that's how it began that night. My son and daughter-in-law had went to the youth meeting we had every Thursday night. And when they came out of the church then the first gang was waiting for them.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so they were there, your son and daughter-in-law, were there to work in and with you in the ministry.

David Lloyd: That's correct, yes.

Chuck Crismier: And how long had they been there before, shall we say, all hell broke loose?

David Lloyd: They'd been back with us about a year and a half. Davey, he had graduated from our American Christian School there in Haiti. We had a small school that was using American curriculum besides our Haitian curriculum school. And then he left when he was going to come back and go to Bible college. My wife got him aside, she said, "Davey, I know you love Haiti but you need to go to Bible college and figure out what God wants for your life. Because I know you probably want to come back to Haiti but make sure it's what God's will is for your life. Don't come back because you feel sorry for the Haitian people or because you feel sorry for your mom and dad."

So he went to Bible college and just developed his relationship with the Lord and got closer to the Lord. Just kept reassuring us that that's what God had for him and wasn't interested in any young lady unless they were willing to live in Haiti the rest of their life.

Chuck Crismier: Well it'd be tough to find such a young lady in this day and age.

David Lloyd: Yeah, I would think so. That's why I tell people it was what we were worried about, because in Haiti there's no coffee shops, there's no Walmart, there's no Amazon, internet communication is very sketchy at times so she wouldn't be able to talk to her parents at all times.

But she came to Haiti with a group from the Bible college, fell in love with Haiti, of course fell in love with Davey. Couldn't wait to get back and never complained about anything during that short time she was there. Just loved the kids, loved the people, loved Davey and loved the Lord. I know in her video that we put out, the promo video about a year before their deaths, it's on our website and in that comment she makes, she goes, "I'm excited to see what the Lord's going to do with Davey and my life here in Haiti."

Chuck Crismier: Well it turned out to be a whole lot more exciting than she ever expected, didn't it?

David Lloyd: Exactly. And that was one of the things I really had a hard time with the Lord and say, "A year and a half it doesn't seem like enough time." But now that I've seen with the book and their life and their story going around the world, it's not just Haiti that they've been able to see what God's going to do with them there, but it's through their story throughout the world.

Chuck Crismier: Well that's why you're on the air with us today, and I'm so glad you are. We'll be right back after this.

Welcome back to Viewpoint. Today we're talking with David Lloyd. He is the surviving father of Dave, his son, and his wife Natalie. And they were all missionaries in Haiti, one of the most dangerous countries in the world and certainly in the Western hemisphere: Haiti.

And so we're now going to enter into the issue, the situation that brought forth the writing of this book Strong to the End. Actually, the book has been endorsed by former Vice President Mike Pence, who came into contact with David Lloyd in an interesting situation and he was so fascinated by the story, so moved by it that he wrote the forward for this book Strong to the End: The Simple Service and Sudden Sacrifice of the Martyrs in Haiti.

$16 will put the book in your hands friends. It is an inspiring book. I think you will be, you might even want to have your teenagers read it, your young people read it. There's very little that is inspiring them today because of the nature of Christianity in America today.

But this is one way that our young people can be inspired as were so many young people in eras past. Strong to the End. $16 will put it in your hands. It's on our website saveus.org, that's saveus.org. Give us a call, 1-800-SAVE-USA, that's 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, P.O. Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255. Writing a check add $6 for postage and handling.

Okay, back to David Lloyd. Making the transition now to discussing what happened almost exactly two years ago. Something very explosive happened in Haiti and their ministry was blown sky-high so to speak as a result of what took place. So can you begin to lead us into the developments there David? To a certain extent we have because we've already laid forth the danger of the country, we've talked about the tremendous gang warfare going on there, but how does that connect with your ministry?

David Lloyd: Well the gangs were operating in and around us but they had never threatened us. Some other missions have had to pay protection money to keep them from being attacked and different things over the years. They never came out and did that.

Chuck Crismier: Well that is like the Mafia.

David Lloyd: Yeah, in that sense. So they never had done that to us. We had a commercial bakery so anybody that was hungry, always gave food. So if the gang members come around all they had to do say they're hungry they got bread. It's the same thing we did for everybody in the community. So that was really our only interaction with them until I went to town and of course you gotta go through the tolls on the road, the checkpoints and give them money for lunch to let you through and back home with supplies. So that was what limited contact we had with them.

Chuck Crismier: So it's constant bribery at every point just to get from here to there.

David Lloyd: Yes. And that's why things are so expensive in Haiti and so many Haitian people are going hungry now because just to get food out of the ports to get into the mouths of individuals they have to pay bribes through each gang checkpoint. So things are very costly.

So up to that point that had been our only interaction with gangs. Myself and my youngest son, we had left the day before, we left Wednesday May 22nd, with the idea to come out for two weeks and then my wife and myself and Sam would be coming back and then Davey and Natalie would come out and take a break. It's kind of what we had been doing rotating: one come out do some fundraising and the other one stay. It had been working out very well until that Thursday afternoon.

I get a call from my director Jude, who was also killed with them that night. He says, "Pastor, my wife just is at the church and he said the gang grabbed Davey after youth and has drugged him into the mission compound." And I said, "Jude I need to know what's going on." He says, "I'm going over to find out." He lived a block from the mission in his personal home.

So I began just hit my knees in prayer and began to pray. My wife and son, they had Sam, he was 17 at the time and had just come out of Haiti with me the day before so he was hungry for some McDonald's. They had went to town that afternoon for McDonald's and they came in and like "Dad what's going on?" I said, "We got to get to praying, Davey and Natalie's in trouble." Threw the food on the table and we all began praying.

A few minutes later got the first phone call from Jude. He says, "I'm here with Davey the gang has left." The first gang had left. Davey said they stole everything. They just came in took what they wanted took our vehicles, all electronics, solar equipment, money, just anything they saw they wanted loaded our trucks up and drove them out. And I said, "Well how are you?" and he said, "Well I got blood running down my face, side of my head where I was pistol whipped." And then later I found out from others that his head had been slammed into the concrete wall several times while that first gang was there.

The first gang kept saying, and this is what we've heard from our staff and our kids that were there at the mission compound. They said, "We're not here to kill them we're just here to steal stuff. We got to go before the next group gets here." Nobody registered that what was being said except for Natalie. That's what I was told. Natalie kept telling Davey, she said, "There's another group coming Davey". Nobody imagined another group coming at that point.

Chuck Crismier: Oh boy, so this is the double whammy.

David Lloyd: Yes, that's how it ended up. And then so the first group left and then I'm talking to Davey on the phone. I mean it's just a matter of minutes that they had been gone and he says, "Dad I got to go something else is happening." Well that something else was the second group coming.

The second group came in just firing in all directions. The children and neighbors that had come into the yard and staff all ran to the mission house. Davey and Natalie and Jude ran to the other end of the property into our personal home that we had built there Alicia and I. It had the satellite on it for internet for communication so they could call through that. And so I don't know if they were already down by that home when the group came in because Davey was talking to me.

So they barricaded themselves in there and I got one more call through maybe 30, 45 minutes after the second group came in and talked to all three. Jude answered the phone. He said, "Pastor it's not good. All the windows are shot out they continually shooting at the home. But we're not hit."

And then Davey in the background he says, "Dad you need to get somebody here and we need help. We need something that we can, it's gonna get dark and it's gonna get bad because I won't be able to see nothing." And then Natalie I said, "Are you okay?" and she says, "Yes I'm fine." I told them we were praying and I was calling everybody that I could call that I thought might could help a little, get them some help.

And then it was several hours later we couldn't get back through and then got a call from one of our staff and he says, "The gang just came up to the home." And he says that "We can come out now we can all go to bed because they killed the white people, the two white people and the bad guy". They called Jude the bad guy. And "we're leaving and so you guys go to bed now".

Chuck Crismier: Okay these gangs they're all Black people and they came in and their goal was to kill the two white people.

David Lloyd: Well we don't really understand what the goal was. One of the young men that we raised and I asked him to take his life in his own hand because he was away several blocks and I said, "Can you please go find whoever's in charge of what's going on at the mission compound and see how much money they need to stand down?" I said, "I can't get it to them tonight but whatever they tell me I will get it to them." Because usually everything's about money.

Chuck Crismier: Right.

David Lloyd: So he got there and they beat him up and one group wanted to kill him. He said there was like two groups arguing back and forth there. I mean he estimated about 100 gang guys there.

Chuck Crismier: Are you kidding me? That's a whole regiment of soldiers.

David Lloyd: Yeah, they had sent everybody. Even the head gangs were supposedly in our yard that night. And they said that one group said, "We're going to destroy everything. We're going to kill all the kids, the Haitian kids, we're going to burn their church, burn their school, burn the home."

Chuck Crismier: Alright well why would be their motivation to want to do that?

David Lloyd: This makes no sense. There's no motivation behind that other than the young man that when he said it seemed like everybody was drunk, high on drugs, or demon possessed. About two years ago I saw a report a reporter had went to talk to some of the one of the head gang guys down there. You can find different interviews on YouTube these guys these reporters or YouTubers pay these gang members leaders to go in and do interviews with them. And this one did, and I saw his interview.

And it's the first time that I really ever felt like a gang member was honest, a leader was honest about the situation. He said, "Why are you doing this? You say you're doing it to help the country but you're burning these people out of their mud huts, you're raping the children, you're killing people all over". And the gang member looked at him and he said, "Well this is the situation. When we get into a battle something takes over us and we have no control of it. So we cannot be responsible for what happens when we're in a situation like that."

And I think that's pretty much sums it up, they're demon possessed. And we've even got words since that night several times. They're like, "We messed up by going in and killing them, we shouldn't have done that. Can you come back and reopen your school and bakery and everything?"

Chuck Crismier: In other words, "give us some free bread".

David Lloyd: Exactly. Oh my.

Chuck Crismier: So how do you forgive? This introduces the words of Christ from the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". And here your son, handsome, young, dedicated to the Lord, dedicated to the ministry to stand in there with his dad, and the beautiful young wife. I'm looking at them, they just look like a perfect picture-perfect couple.

And to see that their lives were snuffed out for no reason like that other than the fact that they were faithful to come to one of the most dangerous nations of the world to minister in the name of Christ. It's just almost beyond understanding. How do you forgive?

David Lloyd: That's a work in progress, you know. If I was to face some of them, especially our neighbor that we had helped over the years and his son was instrumental in alerting the gangs when church was over for them to come in.

Chuck Crismier: Really?

David Lloyd: Those are some tough forgiveness issues that we have to work through. But the way that we're able to even do that.

Chuck Crismier: But the neighbor was like a Judas. Oh wow. We'll talk more about this when we get back friends. Get a copy of the book Strong to the End. Strong to the End. $16 will put it in your hands. Get a copy. Call us 1-800-SAVE-USA, go to the website saveus.org. We need to be inspired. We need to be quickened for times like these. Who knows what could happen in your city?

One questions whether what happened to David and Natalie Lloyd, snuffed out, their lives snuffed out having gone to Haiti to minister in one of the most dangerous areas of the world, and then their lives snuffed out. How can you rationalize it? How can you understand it? How can you understand did they pay a price as martyrs? Was this just something random? What kind of sacrifice did they make? Go ahead Dave.

David Lloyd: Yeah, for us, it's a lot of questions still. We've never been back to the area. I just we've talked to people that were there and it seems like for some reason we were targeted that night. I've had people say, "Did you make some of the gangs mad did you do something?" I said nothing that I'm aware of.

But my wife kind of just keeps coming back to the fact that it definitely was a satanic attack. Davey and Natalie had so much potential to change Haiti for Christ because they loved the Haitian people and they loved Christ. And just constantly even that night Davey had shared there in the youth about everybody needs to live your life like this could be your last day on the earth.

And you mentioned before how are we able to forgive. Well, that night when they were being attacked, we've heard the stories that Davey just continued to preach to them. The first group when they attacked, they were slamming his head to the wall Davey would just tell them scriptures because he spoke Creole fluently, so he would just be quoting scriptures about the love of Christ and salvation and repentance and need to get forgiveness for sin.

And one of the young men looked at Davey and said, "Davey, you'll just lay there and shut up and be quiet so maybe they'll quit beating on you." And Davey looked at him and he says, "This might be their only chance to hear about Jesus. I cannot let this opportunity pass." and he kept on. So he had a love for them, he had a forgiveness for them. So we try to honor his memory and and able to have love and forgiveness to those that did such wickedness.

Chuck Crismier: And it was wickedness and, you know, one would think, "Well this can only happen in a place like Haiti". Well, I would say no. Just look at the marauding mobs, virtual gang mobs that have marauded one of America's great cities, Minneapolis, Minnesota, over and over again in the last several years. Chicago, Los Angeles, even down there in I think even Oklahoma or Missouri had a mob coming through.

We just don't understand this mobitis that basically is governed by Satan himself and once it takes over there's almost no stopping them. It's like a surge of a great storm, like a tsunami wave that comes through and they become taken over to do that which nobody in their right mind would ever think of doing. How do we justify this kind of thing? How do we deal with it David?

David Lloyd: Spend more time in prayer and if God speaks to you to go and start preaching to them or talking to them and trying to reason Christ into their life, you need to be obedient to the will of God. That's the only reasoning they're going to understand. I mean they're not in another.

Chuck Crismier: But how do you do that? How do you do that with those who have been increasingly given over to gangs? It's a new kind of parenthood, a new kind of family. The gangs become a new kind of family. I dare say that most of these young men that are involved in that don't even have fathers that they know about.

David Lloyd: Yeah, that's correct. I don't know that there's an easy answer for that. I know in Haiti, we just were there in the middle of it and trying to show them Christ's love and there was a better way that if they give their life to the Lord that God can help them. You know they say, "Well I can't eat unless I join the gang". Well, trust the Lord, give God a chance and he'll make a way for you in the middle of a situation where there is no way. And trying to set an example to them.

Chuck Crismier: A Haitian judge acting in the role of coroner gave a written statement. Here it is: "We were driven to the morgue in the hospital. There I saw the bodies of the victims that had already been picked up. I saw the body of a white female, American. She was dressed in a jeans skirt and grey t-shirt and her body had been tortured, her skin was torn with burns, her hair was wet with blood coming from her nose and right ear and her body was full of burns and blisters all over her left side.

There were traces of beatings on her chest and abdomen. She had 12 burn spots on her lower and upper body. It was a cut under her lower right ear. Regarding the body of David, a young man of American nationality, all of his lower body was charred. The burns started from the right armpit to the right side. The leg had been cut off before being burned.

On his left side it was charred from the bottom of the foot all the way to his jaw. His face and his skull contained serious burns and there was blood clotted on his right jaw so the skin of his right side was basically missing. There was a stab wound over the right eyebrow. Traces from beating and blisters are observed on his left arm and hip. His visceral organs at the level of the waist are all missing. Because of the degree of the burns I cannot tell the method of the disembowelment." Wow, that is quite a statement coming from a judge serving as a coroner there isn't it?

David Lloyd: Yes, that was their description that he gave of their bodies.

Chuck Crismier: As a father that has got to be gut wrenching. How about your wife? How does she respond to that?

David Lloyd: That's one of the reasons that pushed her to get this book out because she said she wanted the world to see what they did to them but at the same time the love and forgiveness that Davey and Natalie and the story of their life to be the opposite of that. Even as they were being, shall we say, crucified. In effect this was like a crucifixion. It was untempered violence even to the cutting off of your son's leg and then burning him. It just it's unfathomable.

David Lloyd: That's what people ask me about that and I said, well, this is one of the things I've settled in my life living in Haiti and seeing and hearing some of these stories and experiencing it here with Davey and Natalie is you can't tell me there is no God because of this right here because that is pure evil. And humans in their own natural mind and mindset could never go that far to do the torture that they do.

They torture babies down there just to hear them scream, some of these gang members do. It has to be a demonic presence in them that would push somebody to do the extreme amount of evil that people will do. So if there's that much evil then you know there's got to be the opposite is good. So the devil's just out to destroy everything that God has that's good.

Chuck Crismier: We certainly hear of the violence that is done in the name of Islam there in Iran. Extreme violence behind the scenes, what they do, the torture that they do. And that's in the name of their government. This is in the name of the Devil's government. The Devil has the government over Haiti, doesn't he?

David Lloyd: Yes, he does.

Chuck Crismier: It's unbelievable. So you have this mission, Missions in Haiti, is it still operating?

David Lloyd: Well, on a very small scale. We relocated to the northern part of Haiti just some of our key staff and our children that we were responsible for, just believing that the gang suppression force that you read about the beginning of the show is going to start operating and put these gangs down in the near future and then maybe someday be able to reopen the mission compound there, the school and church, bakery and home once again someday, Lord willing.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so you've raised more than 100 children to adulthood there in the school and home. The government has recognized that your school has educated some 450 children a year. That's pretty significant. A commercial bakery and a sewing factory. Why did you have a commercial bakery and a sewing factory?

David Lloyd: Well, one of the things with being no jobs in Haiti, the unemployment I think sometimes it's up to say 80% unemployment. Once the children we were raising in our home they had no job opportunities to step into so we had to create jobs for them. And that's kind of the idea of the bakery and the sewing and we had a little construction company Davey was getting going with just training the young men in our home that we had raised in electrical plumbing, different things like that.

Chuck Crismier: So why would the other folk around there want to destroy all of that goodness that you were doing for the country and for the citizens?

David Lloyd: Goes back to the insanity of sin. It's the only way to be described. It makes no sense. People say, "What's the end game of these gangs?" and I said they have no end game. It's to live for the moment, satisfy the flesh and then as wickedness as you do with sin, once you participate in a sin you got to go deeper in order to kind of like a drug you got to go more drug and a different drug to get that same high. And I believe that's somewhat of what we see there with the amount of evil that's being displayed there they just keep going into it deeper and deeper so they can get that same thrill or that same high. Yes. Wow.

Chuck Crismier: Now, what would what would you say? We have people listening all over the country and in some respects around the world today. One of our listeners about 15 years ago from another country was listening in another country across the Atlantic heard our program at that time and was so moved that I heard later that he had financed with many, many, many, many, many thousands of dollars another ministry that was in deep trouble. We've got people that do listen. What would you say to our listeners today?

David Lloyd: Davey had two quotes that he was always telling everybody, and one was that, and I don't know if it's attributed to him saying this or if he heard it somewhere, but he goes, "I want to live my life intentionally in light of eternity". Anything that he did each and every day was intentionally with the idea of spending eternity with Jesus.

That was the first one. And the second one is "You only have one life to live, don't waste it on yourself". And that's what he would constantly tell the young people down there. So if you just want to focus on Christ because I had a minister pray over me about a year and a half ago and he says, "You know, we understand and we might be living in the last days, perilous times, things are going to get worse and worse". He goes, "If that's the case and the return of Christ is soon, then so be it. But if it's not deal with these gangs in Haiti so the gospel can be freely spread once again throughout that country".

Chuck Crismier: Well as Jesus said "Occupy till I come". Occupy till I come. And again only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last. And he is no fool who gives up that which he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.

Dave, I'm so glad that you've joined us here on the program today to share yes your pain but through your pain, through Christ's pain, the world has been reconciled to Christ if they will receive. Through your pain and the pain of your son and his sweetheart, many now are hearing the story and the Holy Spirit is speaking to people even as we are doing this interview here today. He's speaking to people saying, "You know what? I have something for you to do. Here's what I want you to do or are you willing to do what I want you to do? Are you willing to go?"

We used to sing a song "I'll go where you want me to go, dear Lord. I'll do what you want me to do". But in today's Christianity that ain't so much the spirit, is it?

David Lloyd: No, it's hard to say those words and really mean it because it's going to cost you discomfort and a life that's not a life of ease. Really.

Chuck Crismier: So God hasn't called us to a life of comfort. He's called us to a life of commitment and conviction, hasn't he? And service. Yeah. Thank you, Dave, for joining us here on the program today. The program will be up on our website. It's live all across the country but it will be up on our website this evening and will be there for about a year right there saveus.org, saveus.org friends. Get a copy of the book Strong to the End. $16 will put it in your hands. It's on our website saveus.org, saveus.org. Call us 1-800-SAVE-USA. Go to the website saveus.org. We need to be inspired. We need to be quickened for times like these. Be strong to the end. Jesus is coming soon.