Save America Ministries

Guest (Male): This is Viewpoint with attorney and author Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is a one-hour talk show confronting the issues of America's heart and home. And now, with today's edition of Viewpoint, here is Chuck Crismier.

Chuck Crismier: Are you embarrassed of Jesus? Now, that may sound a very strange question to ask right up front here on a program that everyone knows has listeners probably 98, 99 percent who believe they're committed Christians, committed followers of Jesus Christ.

But if you look at the condition of our country, if you look at the last 25 years of our country, you might conclude that often, in fact, many, perhaps even most, professing Christians are embarrassed to one extent or another of the very Lord of the church that they claim to serve. Today on Viewpoint, we want to have an honest conversation concerning this matter.

I have in front of me a report from the Christian Post that says over 60 percent of churchgoers are worried about AI's influence on Christianity. 60 percent worried about AI's influence on Christianity. But what percentage of churchgoers are concerned about the culture's influence on Christianity, or have they already submitted to it? Just a question echoing out across the fruited plain here today on Viewpoint.

Another indicates that there's great hunger among a new wave of religious young men. But then Michael Youssef says, "Hunger isn't conversion." Well, what's the problem? What are we hungering for? What are our young people hungering for? What are these young men hungering for? Are they hungering for truth? Are they hungering for righteousness? Are they hungering salvation? What are they hungering for? And hunger alone doesn't produce conversion. Michael Youssef is correct.

So, what is this rise of so-called revival in our culture? Is there actual revival or a genuine awakening? And if that be true, why is it that the church itself doesn't seem to be awakening? Isn't that what should awaken first? Then another article from the Christian Post says the American church is undergoing a season of exposure. One of the most thorough and sobering seasons of exposure and cleansing that I have ever seen, says Brandon Showalter.

What are they talking about? They're talking about such as, for instance, in the last 18 months, 14 major ministries in the Dallas-Fort Worth area alone have bit the dust. Leaders of radio and television ministries all over the world and their great congregations have met horrific consequences as a result of culture invading the church.

Are we embarrassed of Jesus or are we embarrassing Jesus because of how we're living? Over the past 25 years, both secular and spiritual observers alike have remarked, and I have all of the evidence to prove it in my files, have remarked about how the life experience and the life of professing Christians in America has differed very little from that of their secular counterparts.

So, here's the question that I have for you today. Are we a prodigal church? Are we a prodigal church? Our guest today, our special guest today, Travis Johnson, pastor of a very significant ministry there in Alabama, has written a book called Unembarrassed of Jesus: How Following From a Distance Can Cause Us to Lose Our Faith. His book is very pointed, very challenging, and very appropriate for such a time as this. Travis, it's so good to have you on the program.

Travis Johnson: Chuck, it's so good to be with you.

Chuck Crismier: These are trying times. Going out to the time of the American Revolution, I think it was Thomas Paine who said these are the times that try men's souls. Well, that couldn't be a more applicable statement for today, could it?

Travis Johnson: It really couldn't. We find ourselves in a place we've never been before. My children face things that I never had to face in ways I never had to face. They're exposed to more faster. Different information waves happen. The intervals between the waves are so much shorter. Chuck, we're in an amazing moment.

Chuck Crismier: Well, we are. How old are your children?

Travis Johnson: I have an 18-year-old, a 20-year-old, and a 22-year-old.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so this is another transitional season into adulthood. So they are Generation Z folk just under the millennials, I think. Believe it or not, I have ten grandchildren, two great-grandchildren, and they are ranging from the age 15 to 33. So they range all through the Generation Z and up into early millennial. I'll tell you, they are facing amazing situations. As try as I might as a grandfather who's been involved in ministry and the practical world for many moons now, it's a challenge to disciple them. How about you?

Travis Johnson: It really is. I grew up in an information age. Of course, when I went to college, I had a computer, but it was not connected to the internet. I didn't have an email address my freshman year. I did halfway through. My kids, on the other hand, they're raised in AI.

In an information age, the question for this generation won't be will they succeed because they have enough knowledge? The question now is who can ask the best questions? That's how we're all going to navigate AI. But I'll tell you, Chuck, I'm watching my own kids. I'm watching Gen Z in my church in the ministries that we do.

What you're seeing with Gen Z and with millennials is actually social media usage is downturning. It's more pronounced with Gen Z. I think the more AI rises, you'll see even more of that. There's a real hunger for just authentic relationships. There's a real lack of that. That's why anxiety is high, suicide is high, and depression is high. They are definitely searching.

Chuck Crismier: Social media has actually been an anti-social force for a very long time now, dividing us from one another, creating animosity, creating antagonism even within the church. You go on the media, social media, for instance, and you can give a message, you can give a statement, and the things that follow in the comments are so often vitriolic, totally uncharacteristic of the Spirit of Christ.

For that reason, we actually took the ability to respond off of our website a number of years ago because of the just outright bitter, angry, vitriolic, prideful kinds of responses. It's very troubling.

Travis Johnson: I've had a protester for the last month and a half or so at my church across the street. It's pretty impressive. He has a sign that looks like a windsurfing kite. It's huge. I'm impressed with his ability to hold it up. It says that our church and Travis Johnson are genocidal because of our biblical treatment of Israel. Now, our security was trying to figure out what to do. I like him there because it's good advertising for me.

Chuck Crismier: Bad advertising is better than no advertising, friends. We're now talking with a man who has been accused of being genocidal. Now, we present: Are You Embarrassed of Jesus, and If So, What Does It Look Like?

A Gospel with no confrontation of sin is not the Gospel at all. Do you agree with that, my friends? Well, let's take a trip back to Southern California in the 1960s and 70s. At that time, there was a very famous preacher. He was on television. He had a program called The Hour of Power, as I recall. He wrote a book all about your feelings.

He was conceived to be the number one guru for church growth in the country. Every year, he had hundreds and thousands of pastors who would join together to talk about how to grow their churches. And he said you don't need to tell people that they're sinners. That's child abuse. They just have to have more self-esteem.

His name was Robert Schuller. He spawned two of the largest ministries in the world. Two of his trainees sponsored two of the largest ministries in the world, and they failed to disciple their own flocks. A Gospel with no confrontation of sin is not the Gospel at all. So, what is it that was being preached? Well, whatever would grow big churches.

In other words, you have to reduce the thrust of the Gospel and the meaning of Jesus Himself in order to win followers to what? That's the question before us here today. As if the church growth movement was not enough issuing out of Pasadena, California, in the 1970s through Fuller Seminary, that apparently was not enough because in the 1990s, we had to reduce the thrust of the Gospel even more so through what was called the seeker sensitive movement. Everything was about feelings rather than faith. So, with that preliminary statement, Travis, you were barely alive, if alive at all, at that particular time when all that began. What do you say about that analysis?

Travis Johnson: I think, Chuck, that for the last 30 or you're taking us back even farther, but for sure in my worldview the last three decades, we have spent our time rounding off the corners of the Gospel to make the Gospel more palatable and with a focus of growing crowds. What we've seen is while we may grow crowds, in many cases, we have failed to make disciples.

Chuck Crismier: There is the fundamental statement. Failure to make disciples. So, let's go back. If you go back to the Great Commission in Matthew chapter 28, Jesus said to his disciples, "Go into all the world and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded."

Do we find anything in there where Jesus said, "Go and make converts"? Didn't he say, "Go and make disciples"? Maybe we've missed the whole purpose of Jesus's Great Commission. Give us your response.

Travis Johnson: I think it's true. I think also we see in Ephesians 2 that the church is built on Jesus as the chief cornerstone and on the teachings of prophets and the apostles. You have the rearview mirror with the prophets and the apostles, these New Testament prophets establishing the church, building the church, instructing the church.

Somehow, we came along here over the last five minutes of history and decided we wanted to innovate on the scripture. Except you can't do that. It's perfect. It's authoritative. It's inerrant. No offense to you or me, Chuck, I've got a teenager and the gray hair just consumed my beard. It's working on the top of my head now. I'm 52, and you're just a couple years older than me.

But I'm just thinking God is not a little old man that needs to be helped across the street. He doesn't need our help. We're really blessed to be brought along in this journey. Now, it is wild to me to think that we are joint heirs with Jesus. We're seated with Christ. We've been adopted into the family. But God does not answer to us.

So the idea that we have ministry paradigms that say we're not going to get into these challenging subjects until after baptism, until later, in some other room in some other place. We don't want to offend anyone. Except, Chuck, how can you be saved if there's no repentance? How can you repent if there's no preaching of the Gospel?

Chuck Crismier: If there's nothing to repent of, how can you repent? How does our Ordo Salutis now provide for salvation prior to an awareness of sin, prior to repentance? So, in other words, what we have not done, we have not taught people before they made a commitment to Christ, we have not taught them about what it means, the cost of discipleship, what it means to truly follow Jesus. So we end up with a people who say, "I love Jesus," and then jump off of an 800-foot bridge because things didn't go their way.

Travis Johnson: This is not a new problem. Right out of the gate, all the apostles were struggling with this. John was the only one of the 12 that stayed with Jesus at the crucifixion. Talk about Peter, we talk about a lot of the guys. I think John was the youngest, so he probably had nowhere else to go.

But I do know this is in Peter's case, Luke 22 verse 54, the Bible says so they arrested him and led him to the high priest's home. Listen to this: and Peter followed at a distance. As the King James version says, afar off. Here's the thing. When I hold my phone close to my ear, I'm closer to your voice. I can hear you better.

If I hold it away, your voice grows dim. I can hear the noise of the room. I can hear the sound of the lights. So when we follow Jesus from a distance, the culture is louder and the Word of God is quieter in our life.

Chuck Crismier: That's a very interesting observation. The closer we are to the Lord, the less the culture's voice can be heard. The further we are away from Him, the louder the culture's influence becomes. Interesting. And that's how the drift has taken place over the past 40 years, isn't it?

Travis Johnson: It is. I've got three kids. My youngest is at home. He's in soccer playoffs right now for Alabama 5A soccer. This kid is a beast. He's like a personal swarm of locusts walking into our kitchen. He just consumes everything. He's 207 pounds. So he's capable.

But he gave me a call one day I was on the way home from the office. He said, "Dad, I've got a flat tire." I thought, "Okay, that's great. I'll see you at home." He said, "Problem is my spare is flat as well. I'm on I-65 and there's no shoulder. Could you give me a hand?" I was like, "Sure, I'll be right there." I got over there.

A guy from a tire shop pulls up. He's like, "I can help you out." He grabs the tire. Lake jumps in the truck with me and we go to follow him. So I'm following this black truck. It took me a little bit to get out on the interstate. By the way, let me tell you something about Alabama. The luxury vehicle of Alabama is not a BMW or Mercedes. It's like a King Ranch, a 2500 HD diesel GMC pickup.

So I'm following this black truck. It gets off on Government Street exit. Mobile's about half a million people. It's part Panhandle Florida, part New Orleans, part Southern US. This truck, I follow it. Then it goes straight out of town. I realized I had been following the wrong truck. It looked like the right guy.

I feel like this is so much of the church today. We have this respectable following Jesus from a distance, close enough to be blessed, not so close that you have to sacrifice, not so close that you have to be convicted of sin. The result is we find ourselves in this place where we are embarrassed of Jesus because what could it do to our business associations? What could it do to our peer groups? We lose out on the proximity and the relationship that the Lord offers us.

Chuck Crismier: This drift doesn't take place instantly. Drift means it's a gradual thing. You become untethered to the anchor of your soul. You let loose and allow the current of the day to carry you because it feels more comfortable. Isn't that what's really happened?

Travis Johnson: It is. We're carving off the hard things of the scriptures because they're not palatable, because they're outdated, or they don't market well. Honestly, Chuck, what I see right now is that some of the fastest growing churches are churches that are clear about the Word of God.

Some of them are very stodgy churches, and some of them are modern. Some of them have great buildings, and some of them don't. But the ones that I see growing are those who actually preach the full counsel of the Word clearly. Even with Gen Z, your lead-in on Gen Z was just really powerful.

Gen Z, while their social media usage is dropping off, actually, if you go and look probably at your grandchildren, they'll have an Instagram account. They will, but there will be no posts. They basically use it to share a story or to text with their friends. What I see is I see more and more children that are older and older hiding behind their parents in the church lobby.

They're not used to having one-on-one conversations. They definitely are not used to people making statements that are quote-unquote "triggering." So if you preach the Bible, you're going to trigger people, which by the way, you have to be triggered before you're transformed.

Chuck Crismier: By the way, that's what happened, believe it or not. We did a whole program this week concerning the matter of the third assassination attempt and asked will there be a fourth. The young man, 31 years of age, actually grew up in an evangelical reformed church. He was known in his parents' church. He went to another church in Pasadena, California, where the church growth movement started.

He was a leader in the Caltech Christian ministry, believe it or not. A leader. But I think one of the biggest problems, people say he was a hater of Christianity. I think what happened is he got so disgusted with certain aspects of the Christian faith and the hypocrisy of what was being leaded out, he didn't know how to deal with it.

So he responded in a way that was totally unacceptable culturally and spiritually. But he said somebody's got to do something, and that's what he did. It's very unfortunate, very painful to see how this is going on. But the reality is if you don't do something, you've got to be willing to recognize where things are.

Peter, unfortunately, was not chosen to be the first pope. He actually became the first prodigal because he not only denied Jesus three times after having declared he would never deny him, but he caught up with the spirit of fear. Fear has torment, doesn't it?

Travis Johnson: Fear is a terrible taskmaster. It's one of the worst. But in Christ, perfect love casts out all fear. It does. When we come to the place where we say, "God, I trust you more than I trust my own desires, my own inclinations," then we can lay down our life to the Lord. What the Lord does is we see then he says, "Now I can do something with you. Now I can use you."

Peter denies Christ. It was terrible. He was probably thinking things like, "I signed up to follow a teacher, not to be a martyr." What a conundrum. I just cut off Malchus's ear and I got in trouble for this. Am I going to be like him? Yeah, now he's thinking what good is a dead husband to a wife.

So he skirted out of Jerusalem. He got out of there. The amazing thing is when Peter trusted the Lord, the resurrection, what a powerful marker. It changes everything. When you recognize that Jesus is who he says he is, then that should change everything for the believer. That happened for Peter. He was still downcast. Jesus came to him. He went back to the prodigal church.

Chuck Crismier: Welcome back to Viewpoint, friends. As you know, Viewpoint determines destiny. There are no neutral viewpoints. There are no neutral viewpoints among Christians. Every viewpoint that we have, every theological viewpoint we have, every viewpoint we have concerning the culture, every viewpoint we have concerning government, every viewpoint that we have is determining destiny at some level.

There is no way to escape it. Therefore, what we believe, how we set our trajectory in our minds and our hearts determines our destiny. The Holy Spirit is there to help define what that will be, to lead us into all truth, yes, but also to empower us to do the will of the Father without fear. That's what happened to Peter on the day of Pentecost. Isn't that what happened, Travis?

Travis Johnson: That's exactly what happened. Peter is received by Jesus on a fishing boat going back to what he knew. Jesus says, "Peter, I'm not done with you. I didn't just save you, but I'm going to use you." That's what happens at the upper room. The Holy Spirit is poured out on the church.

There at the bottom of Acts chapter 2, the Bible says and Peter stood and shouted boldly and the other 11 stood with him. That's what the Lord did. Of course, that great revival was amazing, but God's looking for somebody that's willing to stand and to speak and be clear.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Do you think there's hope for the average Christian out there? You don't have to be a pastor. You don't have to be an evangelist per se. You don't have to have one of those special anointings. But every one of us is called to a holy boldness before Jesus, aren't we?

Travis Johnson: Chuck, I don't just need the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel. I need the Holy Spirit to go to Walmart. I need the Holy Spirit to raise my family. There's a lot of moms and dads right now that are wrestling with the major challenges that come in this life right there in their own home. It requires a bold, spirit-filled believer who will stand, declare the Word of God over their family, and lead them. We all need God's work in our life.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now, let's talk about the matter of Jesus versus God. We're not here to do a special treatise on the Trinity per se, but say we believe in the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those three in one.

Everybody wants to talk about God. If you go on the news media, they want to talk about God. If you go on television, they want to talk about God. Everybody wants to talk about God, and often times even in our pulpits we'll hear people, they're talking about God, but they just don't much like the name of Jesus. So the word God isn't what triggers the problem. It's the word Jesus that triggers the response.

Jesus said very clearly if they persecuted me and they responded, triggered shall we say to what I'm saying, they're going to be triggered by you. They're going to persecute you. But don't think that it's something strange. The Apostle Peter said don't think it's strange concerning the fiery trial that's going to come upon you. No, this is to be expected if you're truly a follower of Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah. Why do we seem to have a different opinion today?

Travis Johnson: Look, we've made so much of what we do about ourselves, and Jesus calls us to die to self. I think we just need a higher view of the scriptures, a higher Christology, a higher ecclesiology. We've just everybody can have a platform, Chuck. Everybody can have an opinion. We've got TikTok prophets all over the place that the church is covering their part of.

Chuck Crismier: TikTok prophets. Well, how about this? My wife likes to watch some of these network specials like offered by GAC, Great American Family. They have movies, seasonal rom-coms, and promote themselves as faith and family oriented content.

So there you have openly recognized professing Christians that are recognized, for instance, on the Christian Post. Yet, when it comes to showing, let's say, a family gathered together around the table to express their thanks, they never, ever, ever mention the name of Jesus. Why would that be? Are they ashamed of the name of Jesus?

Or are they willing to allow people to fill in the gaps? Maybe they're talking about Buddha. Maybe they're talking about Muhammad. Maybe they're talking about some of the 300 million Hindu gods. Whatever it is, whatever religion you want to follow. Is this what we call faith and family oriented content in the name of Christ?

Travis Johnson: Well, I'd definitely say that's a rounded-off corner there. This is a shocker, but when it comes to you actually have to preach the Gospel for people to be saved. The Gospel is the good news of Jesus. It is good news.

But this is what I don't think we're not teaching and preaching the good news because we're not preaching the bad news. There is no good news if people don't know the bad news. The bad news is that the wages of sin is death. The bad news is that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

You don't have to teach a toddler how to lie or how to hit another toddler over the head with a Tonka truck. It's born. You don't have to plant weeds in your garden. They grow all by themselves. So the bad news is we're broken. The good news is that Jesus laid down his life and took it up so that we could be saved.

Chuck Crismier: So, friends, here's the question that's hovering over our conversation here today. It's a frank conversation. Are we following Jesus from a distance like Peter? And how far can you follow in the distance and lose your faith?

How far can you follow in the distance and have no light to shine in the culture? Jesus said while he was on the planet, he said, "I'm the light of the world." Then he said, "Now I'm leaving. Now you're the light of the world, so let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

But he also said this: "But if the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness?" So if we're embarrassed somehow, either greatly or a little bit of Jesus, how can we let the light of Christ actually shine through us? So the question is: Are you embarrassed of Jesus? Be very careful in answering that question. A little bit? Maybe one out of ten? Maybe five, four, seven? Are you embarrassed of Jesus?

This is a fantastic book, very needful for our time. It's a $20 book, yours for $15 on our website saveus.org. Right there on our website saveus.org. Give us a call at 1-800-SAVE-USA, 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia, 23255, writing a check and $6 for postage and handling.

Look, we don't offer books on this program, as you know, unless they have something important to say to us in this time. Unembarrassed of Jesus. That's the title of the book. Travis Johnson, our special guest here on Viewpoint today. Travis, you have these three kids and they're ranging from what was it? 18 to 22. So how are you as a father preparing them to be unembarrassed of Jesus and to live and let their light shine without compromise?

Travis Johnson: Chuck, if we're embarrassed of Jesus, they are so perceptive. Kids have this uncanny ability to see what's real and what's fake. So if we're one thing in the church and another thing at home, that's going to be a problem for them. It's going to be a problem for their walk with Christ.

Here's what I'd say to parents. Love Jesus with everything you have. Read the Bible every day. Get your family together and open up the scriptures. Read through a chapter. Have discussions. Pray for each other. It doesn't have to be some big long drawn-out thing, but make Jesus the center of your life.

The whole gentle parenting, the child-directed parents that have come onto the scene, it's embarrassing. It's raising a bunch of beta parents and raising a bunch of entitled kids. So here's what I would say. When kids say, "Do we have to go to church today?" you say, "No, we get to go to church," and everybody gets in the car. You settle that. You don't have these things that are debatable. It's the core of who we are.

Bless God. When you make a mistake as a parent, own that mistake. Repent to the Lord. Repent to your family and allow them to see God's good work in their life. You just do that over and over and over again. It's really boring as far as a plan, but you actually love Jesus and you live it out.

Don't cheat on your taxes. Don't cheat your workplace. Let it be an integrated thing. When we do that, let God do all the rest. But if we have two different worlds, if we have a church world that we sometimes go to and then a different persona elsewhere, that's going to be rejected because nobody follows the beat, nobody marches to the beat of an uncertain drummer. It just doesn't happen.

Chuck Crismier: Absolutely. Which leads us back to understanding what's happened in our nation, our culture. If you go back to 1946, which is when the baby boomer enterprise started, it was the largest generation at that time.

Well, that's what built the rebellion against truth in the 1960s. The sexual revolution came out of that. The divorce culture came out of that, starting in 1968 in California. From that time on, the breakdown of the family and marriage began triple time.

So then the next generation, Gen X, they look at what happened then and they say, "We don't much like what happened there. We don't feel comfortable." Then along come the millennials and they say, "We've had it. We can't trust anything they say or do because they're not sincere." We'll be right back.

Welcome back to Viewpoint, friends. Then you have the millennials. The millennials are said to have a failure to launch, just like the gentleman that came in to try to assassinate the president. 31 years of age, still living at home, not married, like so many of his cohorts, millennials.

Failure to launch. Why? Because they cannot get any kind of anchor that's dependable looking at the history and experience of our culture over the past 30-40 years. Their parents failed. The culture failed them. Even Christians failed them. So they don't even want to get married. It's unbelievable.

It's not difficult to understand, friends, the trajectory of what has happened with the prodigal church. So much so, and Travis, I'm not sure you're aware of this, but over the past 25 years, the divorce rate in the Bible Belt of America, where you and I live, has exceeded the nation as a whole by 50 percent.

Think about that. In Dallas, Texas, the divorce rate was 65 percent. The buckle of the Bible Belt. So great was the problem that about 15 years ago, six southern pastors, excuse me, six southern governors declared a marital emergency, but the pastors didn't. Why? Because the problem in the church house was so bad, the pastors were afraid of losing their constituencies. It's just unbelievable what's happened. The prodigal church. So the question then is: where's the hope now?

Travis Johnson: The hope is right there in the same problem that's been laid out. You point up the shooter, we're talking Gen Z, we're talking millennials. Listen, since the boomers, Gen X, passing right on down, we have attacked all of the great institutions.

We've attacked the family. We've attacked the church. We've attacked government. We've attacked all of the social foundations, including fatherhood itself. We did that with welfare. We incentivized having a lack of a father in the home. So when we did that, even seeing these great big organizations coming onto the forefront, especially in 2020, Black Lives Matter standing for deconstructing the nuclear family.

Why would anyone want to deconstruct the nuclear family? It's the greatest privilege, the greatest advantage anyone could have, to be raised by a father and a mother, a God-fearing father and mother. So with that being the case, we've done that.

Then this generation that we're in right now, Gen Z is saying, "Hey, you've attacked the institutions and we've listened to you. We've followed you into this stuff. We've questioned our identity. We have a plethora of pronouns in our social media profiles. And you know what? We feel emptier than ever."

I think this is one of the reasons why Bible sale is going through the roof in Gen Z, especially while young men are returning to church more than young women, especially because the attack on the institutions has left them empty and they're looking back to the institution. I believe that's happening right now.

Chuck Crismier: Well, and interestingly, many of them are looking back to formalistic churches because at least it provides to them a sense of some sort of solidarity. They're looking to ritual. They're looking to those kinds of things oftentimes.

It's a very dangerous time that we're in. But the hope is that if we seize the opportunity and do it without being embarrassed of Jesus and his message, which is not just one of love, Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." The Way, the Truth, and the Life. There's no place for compromise in that, is there?

Travis Johnson: No, there's not. I would say with many of the formalistic churches, look at many of the mainline churches. They're dumpster fires of organizations. They're selling their assets to keep their institutions open. You go a lot of these downtown churches, they've been taken over.

There's some LGBTQ battle flag hanging in a doorway. It's musty inside. There might be a couple dozen people, maybe. And there's somebody that's angry up front preaching everything that's opposite of what scriptures say. So what it is that transforms, it's the Word of God that transforms.

What we are seeing is we are seeing when the scriptures are preached cleanly, it's shocking because this generation has not heard speech like that. They do get triggered, but they will hang around and many of them are being saved.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so there's a remnant. There's a remnant. People don't like to hear that word, but it's a word that runs through the scriptures all the way through the Old Testament and the New Testament. Ultimately, there's a remnant.

There's a remnant of Jews and there's a remnant of Gentiles who will truly embrace the Jesus of the Bible as not only Savior but Lord, will live with Him in spirit and in truth and not be embarrassed, and they will stand in the evil day notwithstanding the massive persecution that's coming.

Think about this. The same Holy Spirit that resurrected Jesus from the dead is the same Holy Spirit that resides in my life, in your life, and in the church. So that's what empowers you and I to do what we do, no matter what, doesn't it?

Travis Johnson: That's right. The Holy Spirit isn't more powerful now than he was in the 60s. It's the same Holy Spirit. The variable is us. God is constant. We're the variable. So when we in our fickle nature fail to trust God's truth, His word, and so we have to build some other foundation, it's going to get What God says, "Okay, I'll let you do it your way."

But if you do it My way, actually, if we scatter seed, if we sow seed, then we will see harvest. God will give seed to the sower. Look, I think that there is a window of opportunity over America right now for revival. I really do. I think it's there. I'm watching it in young people.

There is a hunger and there is a thirst. But the fathers and the mothers have to preach, and then we also have to let our sons and daughters do what Joel prophesied of them, that they would also stand up and the hearts of the fathers and the hearts of the sons would be turned towards one another. This is a great moment for the church, but we have got to preach it.

I don't think it's a doom and gloom message. I think it's life. It's abundant life. It's eternal life. God has a really great plan. And you know, Chuck, I'm excited to be a part of it. I remember when I was a younger pastor, I would think, "When is the cavalry coming? When is someone that's more qualified coming?"

No, I figured it out. I was the cavalry. I was the person that God chose for my community. And I'm the one that God chose for my family. So there's not a better expert. There's not someone more qualified. God chose me. So I want to father well. I want to be a good husband and I want to be faithful to the Lord.

What a statement. You know, honestly, this is what it says. The Bible lets us know that after we have done all we can do, then we stand. I think this is a job of the Christians. It's not a fatalistic thing. We do all we can do, and when we've done all we can do, God will do everything that we cannot do.

Chuck Crismier: Well, of course, that's the ultimate result of the book that I have just completed, which is heading to press as we speak, called The Power to Overcome. That's what we need. We need a people.

God is looking for a people that are not prodigal anymore, that are turning to Him, trusting Him with an absolute surrender of life, of mind and heart, of emotions and so on, to follow Him with a whole heart and to be strong in these evil days.

It's interesting that George Gallup, who is renowned pollster for years ago, he passed away since, but in 1997, he came out with a series of articles that basically were summarized like this: we have a massive biblical illiteracy in our country. He said not just in the country, but in the church.

Massive biblical illiteracy. He said we still revere the Bible, we just don't believe it. Your response?

Travis Johnson: It's a sad thing. It's truer today than it was then. And yet, we just had 500 Christian and political leaders reading the Bible through all last week across America. 500. But we still don't believe what we're reading. We're not doers of the word, yet we're deceiving ourselves as a result, as Jesus's brother said.

When you look at how a movement is created, people don't all of a sudden get together in unison and decide to do a thing. It was Josiah when he discovered the Word of God in the temple that he restored the reading of the scriptures and tore down the Asherah poles and the altars to Baal. He even removed his mother from being queen.

That's how serious he was about doing the will of God. Yes, Nehemiah rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem and there at the water gate in Nehemiah chapter 8, he and Ezra they create a boxes stands up and reads the Word of God to people who had just rebuilt the walls and who had also been in 70 years of captivity because of their idolatry.

And here they are rebuilding the walls and didn't even know the Word of God. And when the Word of God was read, they wept. They wept in repentance. And then Nehemiah said, "Hey, wipe away your tears for the joy of the Lord is your strength."

This is a moment for strong men and strong women to stand in the gap and declare God's truth and His faithfulness over their families, over their communities. And you know what? When we do, then another 11 will stand with us.

Chuck Crismier: Do you believe we're on the near edge of the second coming, Travis?

Travis Johnson: I could see Jesus coming back any day. When I was a teenager and I was first started driving, I had this really foolish idea. You know your brain doesn't even fully connect until you're 25 years old. That's why your insurance rates go down.

So you're making a confession. I'm making a confession right now. And I thought, "Hey, if I'm about to get in an accident, I'm going to put on my seatbelt." That's just a really silly thought. You know what, Chuck? I want to love Jesus that if He's going to return in this very next second, I want to give him everything that I have. I want to be found faithful.

Chuck Crismier: Let all who come behind us find us faithful. So, friends, the book Unembarrassed of Jesus: Following from a distance and lose your faith. So we don't want to follow from a distance. We want to be up close and personal with Jesus, which means we agree with Him.

If you disagree with what He says in whole or in part, you can't walk with Him. Do you know the scripture says can two walk together unless they be agreed? We've got to come into agreement with Jesus. He says He's in agreement with the Father. He said, "I and the Father are one."

Therefore, whatever God has said in the Old Testament, Jesus said, "I'm in agreement with that because I'm the Son and I agree with everything You said." How about you? That's our problem. We just don't agree with Jesus, right, Travis?

Travis Johnson: If we can pick and choose from the Bible what we believe, it has been said, then it's not the Bible we believe in but ourselves. We can't agree on 99 percent of the Bible. We have to take the whole counsel, the whole Bible as authoritative to us.

And if there's 1 percent, we say, "God, I'm going to give you everything except this one thing here. I don't like this one part," then our life is fully unsubmitted to the Lord. And isn't it interesting that the only Bible they had, that the disciples had, that Jesus had was the Old Testament, the Tanakh. That's the only Bible they had.

Chuck Crismier: All right, very interesting conversation. Travis Johnson, a breath of fresh air down there in Alabama. And his book Unembarrassed of Jesus, $15 will put the $20 book in your hands on our website saveus.org.

Give us a call 1-800-SAVE-USA, write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia, 23255, writing a check and $6 for postage and handling. Travis, you have a special offer down there you want to tell us about?

Travis Johnson: Whether they're buying the book from you or you're getting it on Amazon or if you want to text in "book" to 877-856-0444, you get a book. But the great thing about the book, 100 percent of what comes in, we give it away to reach people in some of the most challenging places in the world.

So your partnership and your voice and all of this, Chuck, has been a real blessing to my life and also for people who hear the Gospel in just the way we've been talking about today.

Chuck Crismier: Friends, it's lively conversation, it's conversation with conviction that transforms people's hearts. I hope that is true for you and pray for Travis, pray for Travis and his ministry, pray for us, and become a partner. Send your gifts by faith, friends, to Save America Ministries.

Do it today, don't delay. The other guy's not doing it. Don't depend on the other guy. God is moving upon your heart. Do what He tells you to do and do it today. Thanks for joining us. Become a partner again. God bless, be a blessing, and let's not follow afar off, but follow Jesus up close and personal.

Guest (Male): You've been listening to Viewpoint with Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is supported by the faithful gifts of our listeners. Let me urge you to become a partner with Chuck as a voice to the church declaring vision for the nation. Join us again next time on Viewpoint as we confront the issues of America's heart and home.