Save America Ministries

Guest (Male): This is Viewpoint with attorney and author Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is a one-hour talk show confronting the issues of America's heart and home. And now with today's edition of Viewpoint, here is Chuck Crismier.

Chuck Crismier: It came out in 1971. It was a movie with a very explicit title called *Carnal Knowledge*. Now I never saw the movie; I just remember the title because it was so memorable. It was very carnal, and it struck the carnal nature because of the very word "carnal."

What do you think the movie was about? It told you what it was about. It was about the carnal nature, the very nature that the scripture says is contrary to the word, will, and ways of the Lord, contrary to the scriptures and certainly contrary to the Christian life.

That being the case, is there such a thing as Christian adultery? I'm just asking. Is there such a thing as Christian adultery? If there is not, then how do you explain that somewhere over 300 pastors within the Southern Baptist denomination were caught in an explosive investigation concerning their sexual behavior? These were pastors, married pastors. What was going on there?

How is it that just in 2024, 2025 itself, somewhere around 13 major ministries and pastors in the realm of Dallas, Texas lost their ministries due to largely carnal knowledge? How is it possible that an organization dedicated to evangelizing Christian students, or students in the name of the Assemblies of God, was taken down because of a sex offender who was one of the leaders?

It is because pastors put their pants on one leg at a time just like you do and are involved with carnal knowledge. Today on Viewpoint, we want to take a look at this matter of carnal knowledge. Here is the question that I have for you. Are you susceptible?

In other words, this program today is not just about them. It is about you. It is about me. It is about every single one of us because we are all susceptible. If that were not true, then the writings of the Apostle Paul would be irrelevant. He said in 1 Corinthians chapter six, "Don't be deceived: neither fornicators nor idolaters nor practicing homosexuals will inherit the kingdom of God."

That was the Apostle Paul again repeating. He said, "Neither adulterers nor fornicators nor practicing homosexuals will inherit the kingdom of God." What do you say? Was he writing to pastors? No, he was writing to professing Christians, the Corinthian church that thought they were the most spiritual bunch in the New Testament. They had all the spiritual gifts operative, which the Apostle Paul did not put them down for. In fact, he explained them even more fully.

They were involved in carnal knowledge in ways he said even beyond that which you could find in the secular world. Today on Viewpoint, we have a very practical program, in fact, so practical and so piercing that you might want to anchor a seatbelt, maybe put on a shoulder harness because we are going to delve into something here that is really critical for our lives. It is so critical that it could be the determination between spiritual life and spiritual death notwithstanding what your theology may tell you.

This is Viewpoint. Our viewpoints do determine destiny. There are no neutral viewpoints, and we certainly want to have the viewpoint that God has. We are going to talk about this carnality of the flesh here today. If we are truly overcomers, we like to say we are overcomers, that we are called to be overcomers, and that is true. But are we overcomers, or are we overcome?

With these sheer numbers of pastors, and we are just glossing over the surface of these today, this many tells you that we are not overcomers but we are being overcome. We cavort with the culture, dance with the devil, and fraternize with the flesh. The flesh demands to be satisfied. That is the carnal nature. The flesh demands to be satisfied, and that is why our principal battle is a veritable war between the flesh and the spirit.

To put it succinctly, it is a battle waged between our ears in the deepest recesses of our minds. This battle with the carnal or fleshly nature is driven by deep deception, deception that is driven not only from without but from within ourselves. The devil doesn't make us do it. The spiritual reality, though, is that if we are not steadfastly walking in the spirit of Christ daily, we are inherently prone to live according to the flesh.

As Paul again wrote, "He that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption." For whatsoever a man sows, be he pastor or people or Pope or potentate or President or Prime Minister, he shall reap. Today we take a look at this matter, the fleshly demands that are contrary to the Holy Spirit of Christ and that are taking down so many hundreds of thousands, not just of pastors but of we the people.

Research on clergy sexual misconduct in the church paints a troubling picture. From an anonymous survey called *Fallen Pastor Finding Restoration in a Broken World*, 33% of pastors admitted to crossing a sexual boundary with someone other than their spouse without being caught. In other words, they were committing adultery. In another study, one in nine pastors, about 11%, reported having committed adultery outright.

These numbers are not outliers. A survey of 277 Southern Baptist pastors found that 14% had been involved in inappropriate sexual activity, and 10% disclosed having a sexual relationship with a current or former church member. The pattern extends across all denominational lines. Nobody is untouched, including the charismatic and word-faith community.

*Christianity Today* found that 18% of pastors visited a pornographic site at least twice a month. The figures that I have are that really about 30% of pastors admit to being involved in pornography. When you add pornography and sexual addiction to the picture of clergy sexual misconduct, the scope of the problem becomes even clearer. What makes pastors vulnerable? The same thing that makes you vulnerable and me. That is why I ask the question: are you susceptible? We have just barely scratched the surface here today with an introductory statement to set the stage for what is to come. We will be right back.

Guest (Male): Once upon a time, children could pray and read their Bibles in school. Divorces were practically unknown, as was child abuse. In our once great America, virginity and chastity were popular virtues and homosexuality was an abomination. So what happened in just one generation? Hi, I'm Chuck Crismier, and I urge you to join me daily on Viewpoint where we discuss the most challenging issues touching our hearts and homes. Could America's moral slide relate to the fourth commandment? Listen to Viewpoint on this radio station or anytime at saveus.org.

Chuck Crismier: Numerous charismatic and word-faith pastors have been accused of adultery and admitted it, even openly. The famous International House of Prayer leader, a prominent global evangelical prayer ministry, was severely disrupted by a major sexual abuse scandal surrounding its founder, who was involved in the carnal nature outside of biblical norms and requirements.

The famed evangelical evangelist, Ravi Zacharias, engaged in sexual misconduct. Here he was, the prominent head of a global Christian organization. He was accused of using ministry funds to give the women that he was involved with financial support, eliciting personal information about their lives and employing religious language during encounters. Zacharias defended Christianity through books and lectures, making him famous all over the world as a leading figure of Christian apologetics, but left this life an adulterer.

In addition to that, within the African American church, here is a headline: "14 scandals within the black church." This is just involving major leaders. I am not going to go through these names. We are not here to try to blackball these people and their names, but indeed, they blackballed themselves through carnal nature. In other words, engaging in sexual behavior outside the scope of marriage brought them down and completely destroyed their reputations and ministries.

These are the ones that are known. These are not all of those that are involved; they are the ones that are known. If this is happening with this level of multiplication and incident, would we not expect that the same kind of thing is happening perhaps even more so in the pews if this is happening in the pulpits? When I ask the question "Are you susceptible?", the answer is absolutely you are. Every one of us is susceptible. We are totally susceptible to the carnal nature.

The flesh demands to be satisfied. I don't care what you might think about it from some kind of theological position that you have engendered that says if you confess Christ as your savior, there's no way that you're out because you can't possibly be out because you're always in no matter how much carnal nature you express that is unrepentant. It just isn't the truth. But you can convince yourself of that and stand before the judge on the day of judgment and you won't be able to plead with any leading theological official. He is not going to stand with you before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to plead your cause when you have engaged in carnal nature, adultery, fornication, pornography, which is a form of adultery according to Jesus.

These things are very real. We are talking about this because it is very real. The Bible says that we are to be overcomers and warns us to be overcomers or we will be overcome. If we are truly overcomers, we are not going to cavort with the culture, dance with the devil, or fraternize with the flesh. I want to urge you to get a copy of my latest book, *The Power to Overcome*. This is written for a time just like this: how to triumph in troubled times. They are becoming more and more troubled.

If you think the biggest problem is with Iran, you have another thing coming. The biggest problem is between your ears. Did you know that 90% of sex is in the mind? That's what officials tell us. When Paul says, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus," is that what he was talking about? No, he wasn't talking about allowing the carnal nature to have lordship over our lives. He was talking about just the opposite.

Jesus had success over all those things. He was tempted in all manner like as us, yet without sin. Therefore, he said, "I overcame and now, as the Father sent me, I'm sending you to be overcomers." The book is called *The Power to Overcome: How to Triumph in Troubled Times*. It is so practical, helpful, and encouraging to each one of us in times like these when it is so easy to be deceived, so easy to be seduced by the culture, by our own spirits, and by the devil himself. Get a copy of the book. For $25, we will put it in your hands. It is on our website, saveus.org. Give us a call at 1-800-SAVE-USA or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia, 23255. Writing a check at $6 for postage and handling.

In order to move forward here, I want to shift from all of these reports that have been shared with you in the opening of the program here today concerning the pervasiveness of carnal nature and carnal knowledge in the pulpits. Now we go to a case that is analogous to the famous Lindsay Clancy case that is still ongoing now, determining whether or not there will be a retrial. But now there is actually a trial in place involving a case just like what we are talking about right now. It is a horrific case, but it deserves our attention here today.

It deserves our attention because it involves two people in ministry who were involved in a murder trial. Both of them were worship leaders and they were not husband and wife. You read between the lines and you know they were involved in ministry, worship ministry, and they were outside the scope of biblical marriage. In other words, they were cavorting with the flesh and it produced corruption of the worst type.

Let me share this with you. It involves two major players. One whose name is Caleb Flynn. The other involves his mistress, Alea Boethel. One of the reasons why this has gained such national attention is because Caleb Flynn also had been on *American Idol*. Now he didn't reach the ultimate stages, but his own wife had urged him to become part of it because he was such a musician and she thought that he would really have a legitimate chance in that program. I don't know that much about the program; all I know is there is one called *American Idol*, and "idol" isn't exactly the thing that Christians want to be attached to. But that is the name of the program.

Caleb Flynn's wife is named Ashley. She was 37 years of age, the same age that he was when she was found dead in the bedroom of the couple's home. Caleb Flynn called 911 to report that his wife was shot through a break-in, said she was shot twice. Well, they determined within a few days they didn't think it was a break-in; he was the culprit. Therein lies the rest of our program here today, to analyze why he was the culprit and then to begin to apply this situation to where you and I live right now. There are so many amazing applications here.

He was the worship leader at Living Word Church in Vandalia from August 2010 to June 2015. He was the worship director at Free Chapel in Spartanburg, South Carolina, from July 2015 to February 2021. He also served as a worship pastor at the family's home church, the Christian Life Center. So much for Christian life, right? He graduated from a private Christian university, Lee University, where he studied pastoral and music ministry.

Mr. Flynn said music is all I know. It's what I live to do and I love to sing, so that's why I auditioned for *American Idol*. Maybe my wife kind of nudged me a little to do it. Then he said, "I absolutely love the Lord. I love my wife more than anything. She is very, very pretty, just love her," he said. Now, I'm not sure when he said that, but that's what he said. "I absolutely love the Lord and I love my wife more than anything." That is until he got attracted to Alea Boethel. How did they come in contact with each other? At church. That's how.