Save America Ministries

Chuck Crismier: More than 388 million Christians face persecution in the last year, according to the most recent report from Open Doors. One in seven Christians face persecution and discrimination for their faith, with the total number rising by eight million from last year alone.

For 388 million believers worldwide, more than the entire US population—imagine that, more than the entire US population—for them, following Jesus isn't just difficult, it's becoming almost impossible without divine intervention and a tremendous sense of dedication and endurance. Nigeria though remains the global epicenter of deadly violence against Christians. Of the 4,800 Christians killed for their faith last year, 3,500 were from Nigeria, an increase of 3,100 from the prior year.

This is unbelievable, friends. One individual said, "I'm heartbroken at the kidnapping and execution of pastors and the burning of church buildings." Somalia though continues to be one of the most dangerous countries in the world to be practicing as a Christian, ranking second for the fourth consecutive year. Somalian Christians are among the most extreme persecuted in the world.

In fact, the son of a Somali Muslim cleric who converted to Christianity said, "You can be sitting in a cafeteria enjoying your meal, and somebody could come and attempt to decapitate you right there in the restaurant to cut off your head." Well, unfortunately, North Korea is using artificial intelligence to identify suspicious behavior patterns to determine if someone is a Christian.

The Christian Church, however, in North Korea is growing in that repressive communist country. Other countries with extreme levels of persecution are Yemen, Sudan, Eritrea, Syria, Pakistan, Libya, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, and Mali. Well, we're not here just to talk about persecution today. We're here to talk about how to reach people amid the persecution, especially how to reach kids.

You're going to want to stay tuned here, friends, because we're not just going to spend our time talking about persecution, but we're going to go to Nigeria where a certain form of evangelism, child evangelism, is taking place. In fact, it's taking place all over the world, but particularly in Nigeria is what we want to focus on because of the immense persecution there. So I'm glad that you've joined us. It's conversation with ever-increasing conviction, talk that transforms.

Yet the enormity of this issue of persecution, the gruesomeness of some persecution events, and our natural inclination to turn away from difficult situations is all keeping Christians in the West from fully embracing the very reality of it. Just don't want to hear about it. Can't imagine how we ourselves could possibly be experiencing it.

But the Bible says we're going to have persecution. It's not going to cease in this life, but continue until Christ's return. In fact, Jesus said, "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you. Why do you think you should be different than your Lord?" The Apostle Paul came out with similar words. He said, "All who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution of some sort or another."

So here's a question that we might ask before we go further. Are you living godly in Christ Jesus? Now don't answer too quickly. Going into church doesn't make you a godly Christian any more than you walking into a garage makes you a car. Just asking. All right, with all that having been said in launching the program here today, we're going to be talking here with a special guest. I've not met this gentleman before, but we're going to meet him in just a moment.

His name is Fred Pry, and he is a Vice President for Child Evangelism Fellowship. Unbeknownst to me, I was not aware at how broadly Child Evangelism Fellowship is spread throughout the world, but he's about to tell us and how it's involved in Nigeria. You're going to be impressed. You're going to want to hear about it. So Fred, it's good to have you on the program from Missouri.

Fred Pry: So good to be with you, Chuck, and your listeners.

Chuck Crismier: Well, we are experiencing very difficult times. What you did not know is that last year I came out with my 11th book, which is called "When Persecution Comes: Preparing Hearts for Perilous Times." Do you think we might be in those times?

Fred Pry: Absolutely. There's no doubt about it in my mind.

Chuck Crismier: And what gives you that conviction?

Fred Pry: Just because of the work that we're doing around the world. We're in most every single country of this world with ministry, and many of them are facing persecution. Many of our workers are facing persecution. It's just becoming more widely acceptable in certain areas of the world to persecute Christians. So it's becoming, I hate to say popular, but it actually is, to persecute believers.

Of course, Nigeria is one of those countries, but there are many other countries as well. We have workers that are beaten for their faith. We have a worker right now that's in prison because of their stance and their relationship with Christ and the desire to share the Gospel with boys and girls.

Chuck Crismier: Do you have any groups in Minnesota?

Fred Pry: Well, we have people even in this country who face persecution. You don't think about it as persecution, but we have a group that's totally against CEF. In fact, several groups that are against ministering to children and sharing the Gospel with them. The Satan Clubs, I don't know if you or your listeners have ever heard of them, but we are constantly being persecuted. They will only go to a Good News Club in one of our schools here in America where we have Good News Clubs if we are there. They won't go to any other school. They're coming to get us kicked out, and that's a form of persecution.

Chuck Crismier: Yeah, well, it is. And when I mentioned Minnesota, it is heavily Somalian, and some of our representatives in Congress are Somalian coming from there. We've had all of this fraud that we've been hearing about in Minnesota. And yet we just heard that Somalia is number two on the list or number three on the list of the most dangerous countries in the world for persecution of Christians.

Fred Pry: Yes, we actually do have strong ministry in Minnesota, especially in the Twin Cities area. We're excited that God just continues to bring hope and light into that dark area.

Chuck Crismier: Okay, let's talk a little bit about Christian evangelism for children, Child Evangelism Fellowship. I remember when I was practicing law in Southern California in the Pasadena area, one of our neighbors was an active worker with Child Evangelism Fellowship. Boy, she was dedicated, dedicated, dedicated. But that's the last time I ever ran across a person who I knew was involved with Child Evangelism Fellowship. Tell us more about it.

Fred Pry: Sure, be happy to. CEF began back in 1937. There was a pastor, J. Irvin Overholtzer, who growing up as a boy was told, "Oh, you're too young to accept Jesus." But yet he felt that stirring in his heart. But he was in a denomination that didn't believe children could be saved.

Chuck Crismier: Oh boy. Well, I'm going to stop you right there, friend, because we're going into a break. We've got to talk about that. A child too young to be saved? What in the world does that mean? Jesus said, "Bring unto me all the little children, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven." We'll be right back.

Amid growing persecution around the world, Fred Pry, a Vice President for Child Evangelism Fellowship around the world, is joining us here. Just before the break, I probably impolitely interrupted him because he had made a statement that really caught my attention. He said that there was a denomination or maybe more than one that didn't believe children could be saved. That really took me by surprise. I'm wondering, Fred, if that be the case, then why did Jesus say against his disciples who had that same kind of attitude, "Bring unto me all the little children, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven"?

Fred Pry: That's exactly right. That's part of the Scripture that our founder, J. Irvin Overholtzer, encountered, especially as he was reading theologians like Spurgeon. He read one of Spurgeon's sayings that a child of five can readily believe as an adult if the Gospel is shared clearly to them.

Our founder didn't think that was true, so he decided to do a quick test. He chose about 20 children and didn't tell anybody that he was sharing the Gospel with them. He was a pastor at that time. He shared the Gospel with those children and several of them came to profess salvation, but he didn't tell anybody. Over just a short period of time, a mother showed up at his door one day and asked, "What did you do to my two little girls? Something has happened. Something has changed." It was the beginning of this ministry because God had made a difference that was obvious to that mother and she wanted to know what that was.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't that great? Well, I never encountered Child Evangelism Fellowship, but at five years of age I came to a relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and so did my wife, five years of age. So we're living proof and never strayed from it since. This is a very important thing. In fact, they say that unless you come to Christ before your age 13, the likelihood of your doing so later is getting slimmer and slimmer.

Fred Pry: Oh, that's exactly right. In fact, we see that age even coming down closer and closer to ten years old because of all the influences in the world and the connection to digital media and AI and all those things. The children are growing up a lot quicker. They're hearing things that they didn't use to hear before, but now they're exposed to those things, even in their public school. So we see it more important to even reach them at the younger ages.

Chuck Crismier: I agree with that wholeheartedly. I don't think we should ever presume that children cannot understand and learn. From the earliest age when my oldest daughter, who has worked for me for most of her life now, first as a secretary in my law office and then for the past 30 years with regard to this ministry, she was—when she was born, I began to carry her.

After I'd get back from the law office, I would carry her across the street and carry her in my arms and walk with her and talk with her and speak the Word of God over her, pray over her. I would speak very specifically the Word of God over her because I believed that a little child is prepared in an embryonic way to receive those words. Gradually over time, here a little and there a little, they will begin to incorporate them into their own life. Do you think that was a realistic belief?

Fred Pry: Oh, absolutely. Children can understand much more than we give them credit for. Jesus is the one that said, "Let the children come to me," as you mentioned before, but he also said when the disciples were arguing who's the greatest in the Kingdom, what does Jesus do? He pulls a child to himself. It says in some companion passage he picks up that child in his arms and says to them, "Okay guys, adults, unless you become like this child, you're not even going to see the Kingdom. Let alone who's the greatest, you're not even going to see the Kingdom of God. You've got to have faith like this child in my arms." He's saying this child can believe, and that's the whole point of what he's saying. He says unless you become like this child. So it's not the problem that a child's a child. Jesus is saying no, you have to have faith like a child to even enter the Kingdom. Our adulthood gets in the way of that.

Chuck Crismier: Well, indeed, the disciples got in the way. They were very upset because they thought that the kids around were going to be too disruptive and they were going to keep people from being able to hear the truth and the message of Jesus. He said, "No, no, no, you don't get it. The Kingdom of God begins here. It begins with the little child."

It's always disturbed me that children were removed from our congregations. It began back in the 1960s, really. Children began to be removed from the congregations for children's church so that they wouldn't disturb. The primary motivation was so they wouldn't disturb the adults. Now they like to say, "Well, it's really so that we can teach them at their level." But the real motivation down below was, like the disciples, we don't want them to disturb us.

My father was a pastor for 50 years. I grew up in that church, those congregations, and I'll tell you, my father, when people would say, "Well, we've got to get the little kids out of here," he said, "No, they don't bother me. They don't bother me. Suffer the little children to come unto me." I really respected that.

Fred Pry: Exactly.

Chuck Crismier: All right, my brother. You have some kids, don't you?

Fred Pry: Yes, I do. I have four myself, and now some grandchildren, too. I have four of my own and then we have four grand, and yes, they are grand. Three of them have trusted Christ already. Our grandchildren are 13, two that are nine, and one that is five.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. So you had a previous life before Child Evangelism, didn't you?

Fred Pry: Yes, I did. I was in the business world for over 20 years until God called me into full-time missions work. That's what I've been doing now for the last 23 years. It's just amazing to be called into ministry as a second career. That's how I'm a second career missionary now serving with CEF these 23 years.

Chuck Crismier: Well, it's a very similar trajectory to yours truly here. First a teacher for nine years in California and then a practicing attorney for 20. Now 32 years, when you add it all together and all the other things I did like running for the state legislature in California twice, I think I'm almost older than Moses was.

Fred Pry: Maybe it feels like that.

Chuck Crismier: But I enjoy what I'm doing. Do you enjoy what you're doing, Fred?

Fred Pry: Oh, absolutely. It's just real joy to know that we're making an eternal impact in the most vulnerable of our society. That's what it's about. That's what gets me up in the morning.

Chuck Crismier: All right, now you've got chapters. What do you call them in the various states of the country?

Fred Pry: Yes, so we have state offices and then we have chapters under each state office. We have lots of chapters, about 400 offices around the US and, of course, many national offices around the world.

Chuck Crismier: How many people are involved? Are these full-time workers that are working with you? Are they volunteers? Give us a picture that we can kind of grab onto here.

Fred Pry: Sure, this will help you understand the size and the scope of the ministry. Yes, we have over 3,500 staff members serving around the world. We have, even in America, about 50,000 volunteers that we work with regularly every year. But around the world, that would be hundreds of thousands.

Chuck Crismier: That's amazing. And you are the Vice President. Does that mean that you are in a position of overseeing and controlling, so to speak, all of those helpers?

Fred Pry: Oh no, that's way too much for me to do alone. No, we have a couple of Vice Presidents here. We have a Vice President of International Ministries and a Vice President of USA Ministries, which I used to serve in that role. Now I'm a Vice President of Administration, so I'm much more involved in the strategic planning and budgeting for the organization.

Chuck Crismier: What kind of business were you in as a businessman?

Fred Pry: I was in the printing business.

Chuck Crismier: Really? I could have used you. I just sent my 12th book to the printer yesterday.

Fred Pry: Yes, we joke, anyone that's been in the printing business, we say ink gets in your blood and it never leaves. That's pretty true. We have a production facility here where we print materials that go around the world. We sell those on CEF Press. I first came out here to our international headquarters to actually work in that area. I was Director of Literature, and I really loved how God had used my past to really help improve some things here at our international headquarters. It's just exciting to see how God uses things even where we're not sure how they connect, but he figures out a way of connecting them.

Chuck Crismier: Isn't that an amazing thing? I can go back in my life—my wife and I have talked about it so many times—so many experiences that we've had, areas that the Lord led us, and you wouldn't think that they would have any connection whatsoever, but they do. They have serious connection to enable us to do what we do today. As your wife knows.

Fred Pry: Yes, just like our God. That's just what he does. He has that plan, the steps planned out for us. We may think we have a way planned, but he directs our steps each and every day.

Chuck Crismier: Suppose somebody wants to look further into connecting with Child Evangelism Fellowship. Maybe they've been involved in the workday world just like you and I were, and maybe they're thinking, "I don't want to enter into retirement to chase a ball along a grass court somewhere. I want to get into something more meaningful." What would they do?

Fred Pry: I would say first of all, start praying about it. I would encourage people. There are so many different opportunities out there. Yes, we'd love to see everybody get involved with Child Evangelism Fellowship in some way. But honestly, I would say to them, start praying about where God would have you serve. That may be CEF, that may not be.

But I'd say pray first and then get to know CEF. If you think it might be CEF, get on our website, get to read some things, understand who we are, what we're about, look at what we believe, all those things. Then start asking God, "Is this where you would have me to serve in some way?" Some people pray about the ministry, they can get involved in the ministry, and they can give to the ministry. So there's a variety of ways, but I would say seek God's face on that. Don't just jump in. Really seek where he would have you go.

Chuck Crismier: Obviously if you don't have a heart for kids, that's not going to be your place, is it?

Fred Pry: Exactly. Although, honestly, I came into the ministry—I taught children in all forms and all areas, but my focus was working with adults, working with the volunteers. I was administrative as I was a Local Director in Pennsylvania for nine years, then was a State Director, and then came out to our international headquarters. In the majority of my time in this ministry has been serving and working with adults.

So God has a place. We have graphic artists here, we have designers, we have authors, we have writers, we have all kinds of people. We have a maintenance team, we have housekeeping teams. We have so many different people that can use their gifts and abilities to serve the Lord. It's a great place if God's laying it on your heart. There is a place to serve.

Chuck Crismier: All right, the website is cefonline.com. Is that correct?

Fred Pry: You got it right. And we're also on Facebook or X or Instagram as well.

Chuck Crismier: X. Are you X-ing something in or X-ing something out? I've never quite figured that out.

Fred Pry: No, it's the new name for Twitter.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. Your wife, is she involved in it?

Fred Pry: She is. She's actually the Intellectual Properties Manager here at headquarters. That means she deals with copyrights.

Chuck Crismier: Oh, not just a bunch of intellectual people.

Fred Pry: Well, there are some of those here too, but no.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. Well, how about any of your kids? Are they old enough to be involved in it?

Fred Pry: Our kids actually served in Christian Youth in Action, and that's a program where we take young people, high school age through college, and we teach them, train them, and they go out and teach our five-day clubs. It's a summer backyard club, backyard Bible club people know them as that, but we call them five-day clubs. My kids were involved. That's really what pulled me into the ministry was seeing the profound effect that they had, that God had on their lives as they got involved.

Chuck Crismier: Wow. All right, we're going to pick up on that with Fred Pry after the break, friends. We're going to take him all the way to Nigeria, or he's going to take us there. We're going to find out what God is doing through Child Evangelism Fellowship in West and Central Africa. Amazing.

Again I welcome you back to Viewpoint. It's always a privilege to be able to chat with you as we have for almost 31 years here, day after day after day, confronting the deepest issues of America's heart and home and then, by virtue of America's heart and home, the world. We're doing that here today.

As we launched into the program today, we were talking about persecution, and now we're going to go back into that because we're going into the heart of the deadliest place on Earth to be a Christian. That's true, the deadliest place on Earth to be a Christian: Nigeria, West Africa. Not to mention Somalia.

I want to make available to you my book "When Persecution Comes: Preparing Hearts for Perilous Times." Now you may think that this is just about what's going on there in Africa, what's going on in North Korea, what's going on in Iran or something like that, China. No, friends. Persecution is making its way through Europe and into the United States big time.

When you read this book, you're going to find out there are a whole list of ways that persecution is already taking place in the United States of America. That's right. You just don't understand it for what it is because it's kind of hidden under color of law, for instance. It's not about cutting off people's heads; it's about cutting off their right to serve as Christians. It's the introduction to cutting off people's heads.

"When Persecution Comes: Preparing Hearts for Perilous Times" is a $25 book. It's on our website saveus.org for much less than $25. You'll find it right there on the website saveus.org. Give us a call at 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, writing a check and add $6 for postage and handling.

I was interviewed yesterday by a national ministry, and before we were through, the woman who was interviewing said, "You know what, folk, this is probably one of the most important books that we have ever interviewed on this particular broadcast." She was talking about her broadcast. So there are lots of other people who think this is a big deal, and I hope you do as well. All right, now we get back to our friend Fred Pry. Fred, tell me about your name, Pry. What's the derivation of that?

Fred Pry: I actually never looked into it, to tell you the truth.

Chuck Crismier: Oh, okay. Well, I'm curious. Curiosity killed the cat. I'm not a cat, though, so I can't die from curiosity. But I just wondered if it had some connection.

Fred Pry: I'm almost positive it's been shortened from something, a longer version of it. I'm not exactly sure.

Chuck Crismier: All right, well we won't inquire further. We're not the CIA here. All right, let's go to Nigeria. It's a far place away from here, and it's a place where if people realize that they're having an awful lot of problems with fraud with their credit cards and other things like that, an awful lot of that has been engendered in Nigeria.

Also, there is a strong Christian community in Nigeria. Also, there is a massive Islamic community in Nigeria that is dedicated to eradicate the Christian community. Sounds like a lot of tension over there, brother. How in the world can you do Christian ministry with kids in such a place as that?

Fred Pry: Well, we have courageous people. That's one of the beauties of our ministry is we have 97% of all our workers worldwide are serving in the country of their birth. And that is amazing because they know the culture, they know what they do, they know how to navigate through those difficult situations to avoid the persecution.

Like in some countries, what we do instead of doing a five-day club, we'll do a shorter version of that club, maybe a three-day club or even a two-day club with boys and girls. Because if you go longer than that, the authorities take notice, people take notice, and all of a sudden they're coming and trying to find out and disrupt what's going on. So there's a lot of ways that we incorporate the knowledge of our staff into how we conduct ministry to avoid some of those difficulties.

Chuck Crismier: So you're working with indigenous peoples, people that are indigenous to a particular country or culture, and they become the missionary, so to speak, to their own people.

Fred Pry: That's exactly right. We believe that's a biblical model as well. Of course we are a sending nation as well, but we spend a lot of time developing and teaching the indigenous folks, as you mentioned, because we know if there is violence, if there is persecution, if there is even the closing of borders to outsiders, those people can remain and the Gospel can still go on, especially in those difficult places.

Chuck Crismier: Very good. Now how do you connect with those people? How do they even know about child evangelism?

Fred Pry: Basically it begins with Regional Directors that are over the region. This particular case is West and Central Africa. And then they are charged with going in and finding a group of believers, meeting with pastors or churches, and forming a group in that particular nation. That's really the root of how it begins to develop from there.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so they're kind of like an apostolic kind of ministry out there to find, to begin, to start, and to get it operating.

Fred Pry: That's exactly right.

Chuck Crismier: And you've been doing this since 1937.

Fred Pry: That's correct. First missionaries that were sent out actually went to Mexico, but it wasn't long and we were traveling other places as well.

Chuck Crismier: Do you do much traveling yourself?

Fred Pry: Not too much, basically because of my particular role. But I do travel in the states. I've traveled to several places. I've been to Ireland and Uganda and to Kenya. I have not been to Nigeria, but I have traveled around the world. I've been into Mexico. I've been in Ukraine as well.

Chuck Crismier: And so you have chapters in Ukraine?

Fred Pry: Oh yes, absolutely. And Russia as well.

Chuck Crismier: And in Russia. Interestingly, I had a meeting—actually it was an informal kind of thing in the post office last Friday—and I saw a young lady filling out some cards. It looked like maybe these were wedding invitations or something. So I leaned over and I said, "What are you doing here? Are you sending out wedding invitations?" She says, "Yes, and it's a very redemptive story." Come to find out, she was born in Russia. She then, after 16 years, moved to Ukraine. So she's a Russian-Ukrainian now living in the states, and her whole effort is she and her new husband are going to be missionaries. And all that was encountered in about three minutes in the post office.

Fred Pry: That's great.

Chuck Crismier: So what's going on in Ukraine, though, because things are all mixed up there? You've got battles between the Russian Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, between Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. How do you know who to deal with?

Fred Pry: Once you really connect with good strong Bible-believing churches, there's a network, and we can work amongst that network. Now of course in Ukraine it's so unusual because so many people have been displaced, but that ministry continues to grow.

Even in Russia, it's amazing what God is doing even through the struggles and the difficulties because now people are in search of real answers. They're in search of hope because they're wondering how long will my life actually last. And so the Gospel is actually going out in a very powerful way in that region of the world.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now the Russian Orthodox Church is deemed to be the church in Russia. It is the ultimate merger of church and state with Vladimir Putin and his government and the Russian Orthodox Church, which they believe to be the only true church, the third Rome. How do you enter into that arena? Are you involved at all within the Russian Orthodox Church or elsewhere?

Fred Pry: So I can't say for sure that 100% we're not involved in some places, but typically we would not necessarily target those churches for partnership within the ministry. There may be people that we introduce Child Evangelism Fellowship to that come out of that church, but it's not necessarily a partnership with that church.

Chuck Crismier: Right. I would think it would be almost impossible because you have to have almost like a mark from that church in order to be able to do anything with the Russian Orthodox Church or within it. Okay, so you've got Nigeria and it's a hostile environment. Three million kids across West and Central Africa where Nigeria is located, and you say that Child Evangelism Fellowship reaches over three million of them. Is that true, or is it just three million children in those areas and you're trying to reach whatever you can?

Fred Pry: No, those are actually children that we've reached in face-to-face ministry throughout. It's just amazing what God is doing in that part of the world. As you may know or your listeners may know, Nigeria is the largest population of all the African nations on that continent.

Chuck Crismier: It's kind of like the China of Africa, isn't it?

Fred Pry: Yes, that's a good way to think about it. And when you look at the size of the country, it's like, really, is that true? But yes, there are over 237 million people, and there are about 100 million children from zero to 14 years of age. So that's a huge target audience. And yes, we're reaching many, but there are so many more to be reached with the Gospel.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now the northern part of Nigeria is almost exclusively Islamic, and then you have the Fulani herdsmen and all of those groups that are constantly coming into the southern parts of Nigeria to attack indiscriminately and so on. How do your people deal amid those kinds of circumstances? Hold that question. We're going into a break here. You've got a lot to think about there, and we'll wait to hear your answer after the break. Friends, we're talking with Fred Pry. He is one of the Vice Presidents for Administration there of Child Evangelism Fellowship. Fascinating conversation here. I hope you'll check it out. We'll be right back.

All right, Fred, the floor is yours.

Fred Pry: It's a challenge, certainly. I don't know every specific situation, of course, but you're right, some of these Islamic extremists that are doing the attacking and the killing, some of it's the gang violence, some of it's the herdsmen that you mentioned.

But when you realize that this is a nation that has almost a million professing Christians, but they also have just over a million Muslims as well. And because there are so many of them, they are constantly budding heads together. They're constantly in conflict because of the teachings that they're being taught. The things that they're being taught are that Islam is the one religion, the rest are all false. And so they are becoming more militant, and that's why some of this killing is taking place.

So I believe the statistic I saw was there are about 80% of the killings, the murders that are happening, are of religious Christian people specifically. So the largest majority of those that are dying for their faith are Christians. And so we know that violence is targeting them. And our workers, they just have to be very careful and diligent. They have to be wise in how they travel and what they do. But of course they are courageous and they're living in a world that they know this isn't their home. Their home is really not this place.

Chuck Crismier: Well, it's like a combat zone.

Fred Pry: Yes, that's true. That's very true.

Chuck Crismier: Okay, so you say there are only a million professing Christians in Nigeria?

Fred Pry: It's about a million. That's the last number that I saw.

Chuck Crismier: Wow. And you think it's only about a million Muslims?

Fred Pry: Yes.

Chuck Crismier: Really? And they're doing all of this carnage? Unbelievable. Okay. Now children under 15 make up 40 to 60% of Nigeria's population. That's a lot of kids. That's a lot, a lot of kids. So here's a question that I want to lay a foundation here for this question.

In Matthew chapter 28, Jesus said, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel, teaching people to obey or observe everything that I've commanded, and lo I am with you to the end of the age," and so on. So most people have presented, including pastors, have said what Jesus really is after is evangelism. They determine evangelism to be getting people to make a profession of Christ, in other words, say the right words or whatever, notch the belt and so on.

But Jesus didn't say that. He said, "Teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded." In other words, the essence of the Great Commission seems to be discipleship, not evangelism.

Fred Pry: That's correct.

Chuck Crismier: If that is correct then, and thank you so much because with a name like evangelism in the ministry organization, you could very easily say, "No, no, no, we're not going to do that." But that is in fact truth. Thank you. So that being the case, how then do you disciple kids rather than just try to get them to make a confession of faith?

Fred Pry: So that actually begins right from—of course, they can't be discipled unless they do come to that moment in time where they do accept him. So that's where we begin, of course. Many of the children that we minister to and seek to reach aren't involved in any church anyway.

And especially in America here, there are so many that don't go to a church. So we're introducing them to Christ first, but then what we attempt to do is put them into a Good News Club. We have Good News Clubs happening all over the world. We have over 109,000 of those Good News Clubs worldwide. And that's really where our discipleship takes place.

But that's just a portion of it because our purpose as an organization is to evangelize, disciple, and establish them in a local church for Christian living. That's the purpose of the organization. That's our purpose from its founding in 1937 and continues to be to this day.

So we realize we are not the church, we are just an arm of the church working with the church. Our goal is to get those children and families placed in a church for that discipleship to take place.

Chuck Crismier: So you're fulfilling a part of what ministry God has given to his church, but you're not the church in and of itself. You are part of the church. And by the way, the church is not a building, either. The church isn't a place we go, it's the people we are, isn't it?

Fred Pry: Yes, that's absolutely true. Yes, we are all part of the church and we're doing church work. It's just we're not with a specific denomination that's in our world today.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now you have how many people are actually—I think you said over 3,000 that are on your staff?

Fred Pry: Yes, 3,500.

Chuck Crismier: Now is there some mega-donor out there that's supporting those people?

Fred Pry: Oh no, no. We have a whole department here at our international headquarters of Global Partnership Ministries, and they are really tasked with the job of connecting people that God has provided and given the means to the ministry and telling the story of what we're all about, what we're doing. And we have some wonderful people that have come alongside us and are really supporting the work that we're doing because we don't charge for anything. We don't charge the children to attend any of the ministries we do.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. So are these 3,500—are these self-supporting people? Are they raising their own support, or are they being supported by the ministry and the ministry itself is gaining support from other sources?

Fred Pry: So it's a little bit of a combination of all of the above. In some countries, they are able to raise support. In some countries, because we are, as I mentioned, in almost every nation of the world and I can't tell you that exact number because it would put some of our workers in danger, but they serve in what we call Red Countries where we won't even mention the name of the country because it's dangerous. So it's much more difficult for them to raise funds to do the work of the ministry there. So we support many of them from right here in the US.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. So let's suppose that somebody wanted to become part of Child Evangelism Fellowship and this ministry and they wanted to work with you. Would they be raising their own support? What would they do?

Fred Pry: If it's in the US, primarily yes, they would be asked to raise their own support. But we come alongside, we train them how to do that, we support them in that process. But yes, they are, if they are US-based missionaries, we have thousands. Actually I think it's about a thousand, 980-some workers here in the US, and they raise their own support through the various churches and acquaintances that they know.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so let's look at the fruit of the labor now. The laborer is worthy of his hire, and so we talked about that, but how about the fruit of the labor? What impact has child evangelism had in the lives of these, for instance, Nigerian believers where it's so difficult?

Fred Pry: Yes, so the impact, the results have just really been amazing in Nigeria. We see God doing some amazing things. Let me just talk about our Christmas Party Clubs. And by the way, if you would allow me to correct something I said earlier, there are a hundred million Christians—it's actually like 92 million Christians and a hundred million Islamic followers. I said a million, I think, but it's a hundred million Christians and a hundred million Muslim.

Chuck Crismier: That's more like it, by the way. I didn't want to correct you, but—

Fred Pry: No, you should have. But yes, the workers and the results of the work. Now let me tell you, in Nigeria alone, we only have 58 workers, 58, and the impact of what they are doing is just amazing. Just the amount of volunteers, the other nationals that they've trained, over 5,000 just in Christmas Party Clubs. They reached over 400,000 children this past Christmas in those Christmas Party Clubs.

It's just amazing what the results or the fruit. Now God is the one that actually brings the harvest, so but we really pay attention to how many boys and girls are sitting under the hearing of the Word of God, the Gospel. And that's a real important number to us. Of course we invite the children to come to Christ, and we see some wonderful numbers. We average about 30% worldwide of those that we share the Gospel with, but it varies depending on the nation. It's much lower here in the US and in Western Europe as well. But it's just amazing what God is doing.

Chuck Crismier: Much lower in the Western world that purportedly was Christian. Unbelievable because they're not Christian. Anyway, I really appreciate your saying that. One of the things that always concerns me is telling us all the people that made a confession of Christ and then notching the belt in pride, "Look what we did." It's not that way. Jesus basically said you give them my word and I'll build my church.

In many places, we decided to build churches and didn't make disciples. So it's about making disciples, isn't it?

Fred Pry: Amen. Amen. Absolutely. And that's one of the things that CEF does. Yes, we're about evangelism, but we have devotional books that we've written for children. Those get translated and we produce, we print the Gospel of John. That's been a big desire of us to get the Gospel of John into boys' and girls' names in their languages. And so that's been a really big push for us as well. And that's all for the purpose of the discipleship side of things.

Chuck Crismier: Fred, I'm so glad that you joined us here on the program today. We need to kind of round out the fullness of what God has called us to do. We're confronting the deepest issues of America's heart and home. And one of the great callings that we have had from the foundation of the first 13 colonies was that 12 of the original first 13 colonies had as their raison d'être, or reason for being, was to spread the Gospel across the seven seas and the seven continents.

So you're doing that, and we appreciate that and what you're doing. Lord, touch Fred's heart and mine and his family and all that are working with him. Give them further inspiration and anointing by your Holy Spirit to accomplish their purpose. And as people are listening today, if you would inspire any of their hearts to connect in some way, maybe to become a volunteer or whatever, here is the website: cefonline.com.

That's child evangelism fellowship online dot com. And that way you'll be able to connect in and make a difference. Fred, again, what a blessing you are. Appreciate it so much. And friends, as I mentioned, because we're dealing with areas of massive persecution like Nigeria, I want to urge you to get a copy of the book "When Persecution Comes: Preparing Hearts for Perilous Times."

Again, it's a $25 book. It's not going to cost you $25 on the website, but go to the website saveus.org and you'll be able to get it there for substantially reduced price and you're going to be blessed. Every chapter is followed with questions that help to massage this. What a great book for small group fellowships. I tell you, and for homes, parents, moms, dads with your kids.

This is how you can prepare them, and you're going to have enough material just using the questions at the end of each chapter to cover probably two years of conversations in your families or in your groups. Go to the website saveus.org, call us 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, add $6 for postage and handling. And again, pray for Child Evangelism Fellowship. Who knows but what you've come to the Kingdom for such a time as this to enter into that fellowship and that ministry. Fred, thanks so much, my brother. Appreciate it.

Fred Pry: You're welcome.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Again friends, become a partner. Send your gifts by faith to Save America Ministries. Save America Ministries, PO Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255. The other guy's not doing it. Step up to the plate, friends, and let's do it together. God bless and be a blessing.