Running To Win 15 Minute Version

Dave McAllister: Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith. Two contemporaries, two gospels, two tombstones, one choice. Karl Marx and D.L. Moody. The contrast between these men could not be greater. The lessons they left behind are as divergent as night and day.

Today, more from another discussion about Marx and Moody, a book co-authored by Erwin Lutzer and historian Greg Quiggle from the Moody Church in Chicago. This is Running to Win with Dr. Erwin Lutzer, whose clear teaching helps us make it across the finish line. Here now are Pastor Lutzer and co-author Greg Quiggle to give us more details on two worldviews and two very different results.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: This is Pastor Lutzer. Welcome to a very special edition of Running to Win. Today, I have with me in the studio an author. We have written a book together, and you might be surprised at the title. The title of the book is Marx and Moody: Two Contemporaries, Two Gospels, Two Tombstones, and One Choice. Of course, at the end of this broadcast, I'll be giving you some contact info as to how this book can be yours.

I want to discuss very briefly how did Marxism come to the United States. That, of course, should interest us. As a matter of fact, you parents, you know what it's like to send a child to college nowadays, and they come back and they are thinking differently than you are. Yeah, they sure are. Maybe it's based on some of the things that Karl Marx says about truth in the Communist Manifesto. I don't have time to go into it, but that, of course, becomes very, very important—how you understand history and so forth.

But this is the point I want to make. There was in Italy a communist during the Mussolini era, and he was wondering how communism could come to America. He looked at what happened in Russia, and he knew that that was not a great advertisement for communism. So he said that in America, communism was going to have to come. As a matter of fact, an exact quote is, "Marxism is exactly the philosophy that must kill Christianity."

He saw three roadblocks to Marxism. He saw, first of all, Christianity, the family, and capitalism. Now, actually, Gramsci was sitting in prison. Why would a man like Mussolini want him in prison? People have to understand there is a distinction between fascism and communism. Fascism is very nationalistic. That's why Hitler and Mussolini were friends. Communism pays no attention, really, to those kinds of distinctions. It has to do with class warfare. So that's where we are at.

Now, Gramsci writes a paper on how it can come to the United States, and this is so relevant I couldn't believe it. He says that Christianity can be used to bring in communism because the language of the New Testament, some of the sayings of Jesus, can be turned into political language. I can't read the entire paragraph for lack of time, but let me come to the very end. Statements like Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor," can be used to promote communism.

Now, this is what he says: "It is a question of translating the religious language into historical-political language, of showing how the same aspirations that Christianity places in the beyond can be realized here on earth through the collective action of men." I hope you don't miss it. What he is saying is, turn the language of the heaven above to a heaven below and use Christianity to promote the Marxist ideas.

Fascinating. And of course, we don't have time to go into it here, but that's exactly what some churches have done. As they've sunk into liberalism, they have seen that relationship. In the book, I have an entire chapter on democratic socialism, and there I show why it is so attractive. I also discuss issues like this: in the Communist Manifesto, did Marx distinguish between communism and socialism? I answer that question. Also, did Marx believe in democracy? Fascinating. Yes, after a fashion.

But enough about Marx. Let's go back to Moody. Okay, here he is. He has little education formally. Of course, he teaches himself to read. What is that line that Spurgeon used to say that D.L. Moody could say?

Greg Quiggle: He said Moody's the only person he knew who could say Mesopotamia in two syllables. He spoke outrageously fast, so he would clip words. It was a clear sign of his lack of ability to use the English language.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: And at the beginning of the book, I quote Engels, who helped write the Communist Manifesto, attending a Moody meeting and saying that the American evangelist spoke quickly and not without wit.

Greg Quiggle: Yes, he did. Engels himself testified to that, and Engels certainly heard the gospel. Now, what he said about it, I don't have time to share, but nonetheless, the point is this: that these two men, Moody and Marx, they were indeed contemporaries. That's why the title of the book is Marx and Moody: Two Contemporaries, Two Gospels, Two Tombstones, and One Choice.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: But let's go back to Moody. I want to ask you this question: how did he become so famous? I mean, why was he front-page news in the 1800s?

Greg Quiggle: I think the key to understanding Moody's success is, first off, he was used by the Lord. He gave himself to the Lord. So clearly, there's a supernatural thing to this. But the second thing about Moody is—and you hear this over and over again—it's not his rhetorical skills, it's not even his ability to be light and winsome in that way. His earnestness. Moody really believed the gospel.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: And you know, that's the same about Billy Graham, isn't it?

Greg Quiggle: Yes. There was no guile. To quote the old King James, "He was an Israelite in whom there is no guile." There was nothing. Moody shot straight. Moody was straight, and people knew it. That cut through. They may have laughed at his grammar, they may have laughed at his lack of education, but at the end of the day, they knew he cared, and they knew he was sincere, and they knew he believed what he was saying. There was nothing false about Dwight Moody.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: And actually, he was ahead of his time. Now, he began Moody Bible Institute, but also some schools in Northfield, Massachusetts. We don't have time to list them all, but what ethnicities were there in those schools?

Greg Quiggle: Two things about those schools. Number one, they were only for poor kids. And number two, they were racially diverse. So you have African Americans, ex-slaves, Native Americans, Asian Americans, and Caucasians. So they were very diverse ethnically.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: One thing I like about Moody—of course, there are so many stories—but somebody, when he came back from England and Moody, of course, was very famous, he was front-page news. In fact, people have to understand that when he preached, they took down his messages in shorthand, and it was in the newspaper the next day. So he obviously attracted a lot of attention.

And you mention in the book that Moody would not allow people to draw his picture. He didn't sit for a picture. He didn't want his picture taken. And I love this story that when Moody came to America, someone said, "Well, may I shake hands with the great Mr. Moody?" Moody scooped down, took a handful of dirt, and said, "Look at this. This is D.L. Moody, apart from the grace of God." And that's who he was all the way to the very end.

Greg Quiggle: I think that humility is another portion. I think that's why he was widely admired. He didn't get caught up in the money. He kept clean on the money. He didn't make it about himself. He refused to have anything named after him. Nothing was named after Mr. Moody until he was dead because he would have been crazy about that.

If you made the mistake of introducing him as Reverend Moody, he would interrupt you and say, "No, no, no, I'm just Mr. Moody, a Sunday school teacher from Chicago." If you were going to the platform with him, you better have a sermon in your pocket because he would, on the way up, say, "They've heard enough from me. It's your turn to preach tonight."

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: I want everyone listening to understand that this could be transforming. I think that the section that you wrote on Moody should be read by every young person. And I say that because they need to see a life of simplicity but sincerity.

And I love that quote that was given to him by another: "The world has yet to see what God can do through and in a man who is totally yielded to Him." And of course, there are so many stories. Somebody criticized Moody's grammar and how he preached, and he said, "I'm really sorry. I want you to preach and show me how to do it." That was his response. He never defended himself, but he preached the gospel, and his impact is continuing.

And that's why, at the end of the book, we go to the graveyards both of Karl Marx and to D.L. Moody to contrast their legacies. And by the way, one of the chapters in the book is entitled, "What Moody Got Right, What Marx Got Wrong," where we talk about human nature and we talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Very quickly again, Greg, I do want to end on this note. Tell us about the three Rs that Moody preached.

Greg Quiggle: Moody believed that human beings were ruined by sin. That is, there is something deeply, fundamentally wrong with us that we cannot fix. Then he believed that the solution was Jesus Christ. So the second R is Redeemed by Christ. That God had to fix the problem, and He did so. Jesus Christ, the God-man, came and died to solve this problem.

And that we are regenerated, made new by the work of the Holy Spirit. So Regenerated by the Holy Spirit was the third one. This was Moody's gospel. It does not matter who you are. It does not matter what you have done. Jesus Christ offers forgiveness. He paid for your sins. And the Holy Spirit can make you a new person. And by the work of Christ, by trusting in Christ alone, you can be redeemed.

Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer: I think that this book will be a tremendous blessing. It'll be a motivation for all of us to follow the God and the gospel of D.L. Moody and to recognize that we indeed do have a fatal flaw, and only God is able to save us and to redeem us. For a gift of any amount, we're making this book available for you. It's entitled Marx and Moody: Two Contemporaries, Two Gospels, Two Tombstones, and One Choice.

Dave McAllister: Two contemporaries, two gospels, two tombstones, one choice for each of us. Pastor Erwin Lutzer, along with historian Greg Quiggle, have discussed their book, Marx and Moody, two very different men and the marks they made on culture and world history. Next time, don't miss a series about seven signs of Christ's return.

Only a few days remain for you to ask for a copy of Marx and Moody. It's our gift to you when you give a gift of any amount to support Running to Win. This book clarifies the contrast between darkness and light, and it will be sent at your request. For full information, call us toll-free at 1-800-215-5001. That's 1-800-215-5001. Online, go to offerrtw.com. That's offerrtw.com. Or write to us at Running to Win, Moody Church, 1635 North LaSalle Boulevard, Chicago, Illinois, 60614. This is Dave McAllister. Running to Win comes to you as a ministry of the Moody Church.