Revive Our Hearts

Dannah Gresh: Hey friends, this is Dannah Gresh from Revive Our Hearts. Before we get started today, I want to remind you that tomorrow is the National Day of Prayer. This is a day set aside to pray for our nation. In light of our conversations this week, it's on my heart to pray about sexuality and gender.

So many are confused about their sexual identity, and so many are living in shame because they've believed lies in this area. My prayer is that men and women, not only here in the United States but around the world, would find freedom from bondage. So make plans to set aside some time tomorrow and join hundreds of thousands of believers in prayer.

Now, this is not an endorsement, but you've probably heard of the brand of vacuum cleaners called DustBuster. Maybe you even have a DustBuster. I wonder, though, have you heard of shame busters? That's what we want to be today. Sexual purity isn't about legalistic rules. It's not about doing everything perfectly. At its heart, it's all about the Gospel. Suzy Weibel and I are going to talk about it.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of *Lies Women Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free*. For May 6, 2026, I'm Dannah Gresh.

Dannah Gresh: Once again, it's my joy to welcome my friend Suzy Weibel to the studio. Suzy is Theological Content Director for the Wonder app for teens, an app that encourages young women to spend time reading the Bible. Suzy, thanks for being here.

Suzy Weibel: Thank you for having me.

Dannah Gresh: So as we kick off our conversation today, can we talk a bit about your book title? Some years back, you wrote a book called *And the Bride Wore White: Seven Secrets to Sexual Purity*. Now it's been revised and updated. We'll tell our listeners more about how they can receive a copy later in the program. But first, how about a little bit of history behind how you chose that title?

Suzy Weibel: Well, I wanted a title that the teen girls would read and the moms would buy. So we did lots and lots of focus groups and studies. We landed on *And the Bride Wore White*. It was the title of the first chapter of the book.

The reason it was is because, on my wedding day, I was still not really healed from my sexual sin, even though it had been many years. I intentionally bought off-white because I felt shame and unworthiness. In my healing, I really came to the conclusion that the redemption of Christ qualifies all of us to wear white because what are we wearing at the wedding supper of the Lamb?

Robes that are stunningly white, blindingly white, because they've been washed by the blood of the Lamb. So the title comes from the heart of that verse, that through Christ's washing, we are so pure and so clean. By His perfection, we are allowed to be presented as spotless. It's a meaningful title to me.

Dannah Gresh: I remember that being a cultural thing. Across cultures, some countries wear red, some countries wear bright colors. It's a very Western thing to wear white. I'm not quite sure where it started. But Suzy, I had to fight for that title to stay on the book as we re-released it. I'm glad that I had to fight because I had to think through whether it was still relevant.

The question was, do today's teen girls want to be married? Do today's Christian teen girls want to be married? The research indicates 95% of teens 15 to 19 expect to get married. A survey reported in the New York Times revealed that only 5% of high school seniors do not want to get married.

But here's the thing. It's beautiful and promising, but you don't hear that in the culture. You have to dig for that. The assumption is that they don't want to get married. But they do have that desire. It's planted in them by God, even though we have to be careful not to idolize marriage to the point where we don't honor singleness as the gift from God that it can be to serve Him with freedom.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth did that for 50-plus years. She served the Lord before she met Robert with a freedom she didn't have during her years that she was married. The Bible says that's a good gift. But the Bible also says that marriage is a picture of the love of Christ, and so it is also a good gift. Today's teenagers still want that. It's planted in their hearts by God.

Suzy Weibel: That is so good. It's good to hear. So if it's something that's in the hearts of 95% of our teenagers, it seems like it's something that we definitely should be discussing with our teens.

When we talk about our conversations that we have with our kids about marriage and about sexuality, there's the old phrase: it's time to have "the talk." Do you see an error in that right out of the gate?

Dannah Gresh: It's such a big error because it's such a complex issue. The temptation in our culture is happening every day. We're going to talk to them about it one time when they're 12? That doesn't make any sense. Not only that, but talk to them about something which we've never talked to them about before. So now the awkwardness is magnified times I don't know what, because I've never heard my mom and dad address this topic before. This is weird.

One of the things that we have to teach our girls and our sons, but again, we're women teaching women, is scripture says do not be unequally yoked. This applies to marriage in that we are to marry others who love Christ and want to lay their lives down to glorify Him the way that we do. If we're fearful that we can't teach *And the Bride Wore White* and the beauty of marriage, then we also aren't teaching this biblical concept of being equally yoked.

One of the criticisms I've gotten for the book is that I have one of the secrets to sexual integrity is that purity doesn't slide, it decides. By that, I'm inviting girls to first and foremost decide decisively that if God has marriage in their future one day, they will not equivocate on being equally yoked to another believer that loves Christ, including during their dating years.

If you're dating someone, your heart's going to get tangled up and you might equivocate on that one. So you shouldn't even date someone unless you see a thriving relationship with Christ. What I see in the church a lot of times is what my friend Erin Davis, no stranger to the Revive Our Hearts community, calls a "broken picker-outer." Girls are just ending up in these unhealthy relationships because nobody ever trained them how to be discerning in who they would or would not date.

There's actually a sociologist, Dr. Scott Stanley, who's done some long-term research that if you decide what you're going to do with the marriage relationship, with children one day, with your career, with the purpose of your life—if you're deciding that as a younger person, you tend to be on a trajectory to achieve those objectives. If you don't, you go into what he calls "sliding."

And you just slide into, "Oh, this guy asked me out on Friday night, I think I'll go." You just slide into this date night with an unbeliever, and then you slide into, "He wants to have sex because he doesn't have any convictions that are based on biblical principles." And then you slide into living together. 80% of today's teens say they probably will live with someone before they get married. That's disheartening information. So we want to try something on before you know if it's a good fit. That's another one of those cultural lies.

Suzy Weibel: In the book, you tell a story where you had an opportunity to change your trajectory from one of sliding to one of deciding. I remember you telling the story of being introduced to a guy who invited you to go... where did he invite you? To the library?

Dannah Gresh: I think it was Mary the librarian. I was at the county fair. At the sheep pens. I was invited to walk to the sheep barns with a guy. My mom at that point had been training my "picker-outer." I had a mom who sat me down when I was in my high school years and said, "Let's write a list of what would honor God in a marriage relationship with you, and that's going to inform who you say yes and no to when you date."

I knew right away when my cousin introduced me to this guy, he didn't feel like a believer to me. He was fine on the eyes. I mean, he had a great personality. He was sheep-pen fine. But I said no. That decision matters. But I've been really criticized for encouraging women to sit down with their daughters and do that. I think at the very least, we've got to be teaching them not to be unequally yoked.

Suzy Weibel: Okay, so then let's move on to your experience in high school where you were with a boyfriend who was a believer. For some reason, you were still at that time sliding. Is that how you would describe that?

Dannah Gresh: Absolutely. At that point, I hadn't really considered sex. I hadn't. So I didn't know what to do when the moment... I wasn't prepared to manage the moment. I think that's an important thing.

I define sexual integrity as my sexual choices are a consistent expression of my relational and spiritual commitments. That means if I'm committed to Jesus, I'm obeying His Word. So my sexual choices will first and foremost be a reflection of that. But also, if I'm not married to someone, my sexual expression is also confined to my commitment to save sexual expression until I'm married.

I hadn't really thought about that when I was 15 years old. Suzy, I was a baby. I was 15. I look back and I honestly was a baby. I had never considered it. So I think it's really important that we teach our daughters what are God's boundaries.

There's a whole chapter in *And the Bride Wore White* that covers about 10 things in scripture that God specifically forbids sexually. One of them, for example, is prostitution. Imagine that. But the Roman and Greek culture, it was so normal. Prostitution was part of the worship experience in the pagan temples.

But Suzy, today, OnlyFans is a form of prostitution. It's normalized, and God says no to it. So this list of what scripture forbids is a good list to go through and then say, "How does that show up in our culture?"

Suzy Weibel: That's such a great example because I think most moms would say if we were to ask them, "Do you think your teen daughter would agree from a biblical morality standpoint that prostitution is wrong?" Every mom would say, "Oh, yes, my daughter knows that. My daughter would agree with that."

But a lot of moms may not be aware of the existence of OnlyFans or the redefining of what prostitution is by our culture. Maybe we should say what OnlyFans is for the one that's listening that doesn't know.

Well, it's a website or an app where girls can offer their services, basically, for pay. So it's digital, online, what used to be called cybersex, and it's for pay.

Dannah Gresh: I really believe it's important that at an age-appropriate time, we sit down with our teenagers and we examine the scriptures and we talk about what God's boundaries are. What's more important is that they make some decisions, some decisive moments of thought of "this is where I'm drawing my line."

I don't want to add to God's Word, so if they feel for some reason that they don't want to kiss until their wedding day, that's fine. Make sure that it's their personal preference because scripture actually says greet each other with a holy kiss. A holy kiss, mind you. But we shouldn't make up excessive rules. But she should sit down and say, "How do I protect these boundaries in my life?" I think that's a wise thing to do.

And then beyond that, what does she say or do when she's in a dating relationship and he's pushing past that boundary? Give her the skills, they're called refusal skills. Give her the skills to say no. "I do not consent to this." And that is a good and holy thing.

Suzy Weibel: I don't think we know what we need to address until we have many conversations. So maybe many 5 to 10-minute conversations as opposed to one two-hour sit-down, which isn't going to be very effective anyhow. So many conversations. I think a great skill for us to learn as parents is to ask a question and then shut our mouth and just take some time to listen to the answer to that question because this is how we know where our girls maybe are a little bit deficient in their definitions. What do they know? What don't they know? What are they curious about?

Dannah Gresh: Lead them to the answer. Let them discover it. Let them be curious. Otherwise, all we're doing is telling them what we believe, which never has been very effective in my household.

Yesterday, you mentioned how being downtown at 2:00 in the morning at a university town could be something that raises the risk. One of the things I think we need to talk to our daughters about—and again, not politically correct—but I think we need to talk to her about how she dresses. The Bible talks about it, not a lot. The Bible talks about modesty four times in scripture. I can find four passages that specifically relate to that topic.

But a broader topic is this: from Genesis to Revelation, I see that the Bible is a book about clothing. In the New Testament, we're encouraged to clothe ourselves in Christ. So every decision we make expresses our belief, including the way that we present ourselves.

I feel like the criticism of teaching modesty with legalism, which to some degree is really warranted because it has been taught at times with legalism. But the answer can't be "let's not talk about it" because the Bible talks about it. My favorite thing as I've taken these two years and just said, "Do I really believe what I taught 26 years ago?" I looked at how I taught modesty and I think that's the one thing I wish I had understood the "why" a little bit better.

If you look back at Genesis 3, you see Adam and Eve falling from grace and sinning for the first time. Then you see God coming relationally and saying, "Where are you? I miss you. I want to be with you. Where are you?" Of course, He knows where they are. He's just saying, "I want to be with you." So it's relational when His kids mess up.

The next thing we see is, for the first time recorded in scripture, an animal dies. Blood is shed. Bible scholars call that the first gospel, the first time that blood was shed for the payment of sin. God takes the skin of that animal and He makes garments of fur for Adam and Eve. In the Hebrew language, it's tunics of fur.

The word "tunic" is used throughout the Old Testament to describe garments that dignified someone, royalty or a special value. Like Joseph's tunic of many colors. The tunic of the priests. So what does God do? He doesn't just say, "Here, throw on this t-shirt because you messed up and now you know you're naked." He says, "Let Me restore back upon you the dignity and worth as an image-bearer of God and I'm giving you this tunic as that symbol."

Right from the beginning, clothing has the potential to say the Gospel. Our clothing, the reason that we dress carefully, is so that we can say, "I'm clothed in Christ. The Gospel is here in me and on me."

Suzy Weibel: It's an indicator of who a person is and who that person belongs to. It's an indicator of value and worth. It's a beautiful picture. It's okay to teach it. Suzy and I are writing you a permission slip today. If you're a mom who has been gagged by some of the undue critique of teaching on purity and modesty, we are shamelessly writing you a permission slip as a mom or a grandma to have the conversation. Have it in a holy way, have it in a biblical way, but have the conversation.

Can we go back to nuance for just really quickly, Dannah, along with that permission? Suzy and I have enjoyed our friendship for years for one of the reasons because we are so similar and yet we are so different. I'm a lifelong tomboy. To this day, I don't wear dresses. I'm just not comfortable in them.

Dannah Gresh: I've seen you in a few. At weddings, dog shows.

Suzy Weibel: Okay, I have worn dresses. But let's talk about nuance for just one moment here. In Deuteronomy 22:5, the law states—and again, Jesus is the fulfillment of this law—but the law states a woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God. "Abomination" is a strong word. Does this mean that I, the tomboy, cannot wear jeans and sweatshirts? What do you think, Dannah?

Dannah Gresh: I think so much of that is the intention and the heart because if you go back to that time, the men and the women both would have been in tunic-type garments, right? Their garments would have been somewhat similar. And yet there was an intention of, "I know I am created by God to be a female image-bearer of God. I will present as one." Or, "I am created as a male image-bearer of God and I will present as one."

The thing that I think is being addressed there is Genesis 1:27, saying you are image-bearers as males or as females—biologically born males or biologically born females. The reason it's an abomination is because you are erasing the picture, the statue, the image of God when you behave that way.

But I think it's great to have a conversation about a verse like that with our daughters so that we can say, "I understand that you're a girl who loves to run and play in creeks and you're comfortable in jeans and sweatshirts and that is okay because you understand that you have been uniquely created in the image of God as a female."

I think, too, when we don't allow for that spectrum—there are also men who are men's men. They're out hunting and all that stuff. And then there are men who are like David. They're musicians, songwriters, creative. Maybe they're interested in being a chef. There's a spectrum. So that nuance is important, I think.

One thing I want to talk about before we go today is just how both of us have experienced the grace of God in our lives. It's not like we're sitting here talking about this because we did all of this perfectly. Most of what we're teaching is because we learned on the hot pavement of life that what God's Word says is true and is good. There's nothing like learning the hard way.

If anything, we just want to be shame busters in your life if you have experienced sexual trauma or sexual pain or sexual shame in any way, shape, or form. But we live in a culture right now where instead of saying, "God, here's my shame, here's my pain, what do You want to do with it?" we're taking our shame and our pain to TikTok.

Here's a question. If I have a knife, a blade, is it a safe tool or an unsafe tool? That's an impossible question to answer. Well, I would say the answer is it depends on whose hand it's in. If it's in the hands of a murderer, it's an unsafe tool. If it's in the hands of a surgeon, it's a tool of healing.

I think shame is like that. When we take our shame and we put it in the hands of a holy God, kind of the way that God walks into Genesis 3 and says, "Adam, Eve, hand Me your shame. Give Me those fig leaves. I want to give you something so much better." We have to take our shame and our pain to Jesus, not to the internet, not to the grumbling about how the church has done this or how the church has done that because the church is imperfect. But we've got to take it to Jesus and say, "Here's my shame and my pain."

James 5:16 says we've got to confess our sin one to another then you will be healed. That was a secret in my life, that my healing came when I finally started talking about my sexual sin and I felt unleashed by God's truth, unleashed by His healing.

So we've got to stop confessing our shame. We've got to stop with the trauma-bonding. We've got to start confessing our sin first to Jesus—put our shame in His hand—and then to one another. And then we will be healed.

Suzy Weibel: Amen. That's a promise in scripture, James 5:16. What a hopeful promise it is.

Dannah Gresh: Before we go, I would love for you to hear from Nancy on this topic of healing in Christ. We played this not too long ago on Revive Our Hearts and it was a huge comfort for many of our listeners. Here's Nancy echoing the words Jesus said to a woman only known as "the sinner woman" in Luke chapter 7.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Your sins may have been many. All our sins have been many. And Jesus says to you: your sins have been forgiven. Go in peace. Go into peace. Go on your way in peace. Move forward in peace. Go in peace. Move forward from this place knowing that you have peace with God. You're no longer His enemy. You're no longer at war with Him and you can walk in and be filled with the peace of God.

Go in peace. Go in peace knowing that you now have a new identity, new relationships, a new calling. Go in peace knowing that Jesus has paid the price for your sin. Go in peace knowing and believing these wonderful promises, these amazing promises that He has given you in His Word.

Let me just give you a few if you find that shame and guilt, the memories, the pain, the sense you can't be released from this—you know you've been forgiven, but you don't feel forgiven and it's hard to go forward in peace. Let me just give you some promises to cling to, to renew your mind with truth.

Romans 5, verse 1. You might want to write these references down. "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." You need to tell your heart that's what scripture says is true of you if you've been justified through faith in Christ.

Romans 8, verse 1: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Go in peace.

Psalm 103, verses 8 through 12: "The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love." Verse 10: "He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities." Who could survive that?

But as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us. These are verses you may want to memorize, verses you want to focus on, renew your mind with when shame and guilt threaten to take you under.

Micah 7, verses 18 and 19. I love this passage. "Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, because he delights in steadfast love. He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea."

Suzy Weibel: What beautiful passages to cling to. Thank you, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. If you're burdened by sexual shame today, I hope those passages set you free. There's such hope and healing in Christ.

Dannah Gresh: You can explore these topics we've been covering so much more deeply in Dannah's freshly released book, *And the Bride Wore White*. Get to know her story and get to know the God who makes all His daughters pure.

This resource is yours for a gift of any amount to Revive Our Hearts. To make a donation, visit reviveourhearts.com or call 1-800-569-5959, and be sure to request *And the Bride Wore White* when you do. Dannah, I think the truths that you've shared with us today have been so important. Thank you for inviting me to be here with you.

Suzy Weibel: Thank you, Suzy. It has been so fun hanging out with you. Tomorrow, we're getting a sneak peek at the *Wonder of the Word* series coming out in 2027. Nancy's walking us through a beautiful Psalm, Psalm 107, and I think it will richly encourage you. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

This program is a listener-supported production of Revive Our Hearts in Niles, Michigan, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.