ReFOCUS with Jim Daly

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JR Briggs: I think that's really important as we think about how do we meet people where they are and journey with them to where God wants them to be. Part of figuring out and meeting them where they are is saying, "What questions are you currently asking?"

We can't really know our neighbors until we know their hopes and their fears in order to love them well. And I think questions can help reveal those.

Jim Daly: That's JR Briggs talking about the role of questions in reaching the lost for Christ. He's a former pastor and leadership coach with fascinating insights into making the most of your opportunities to connect with others, even when these opportunities feel like interruptions.

Welcome to ReFOCUS with Jim Daly, a podcast production from Focus on the Family. I talked with JR about the qualities of a good question and the example Jesus set by asking so many questions, even though he had all the answers.

The goal of this podcast is to equip you to get involved in your community for Christ and speak the truth with grace. And no matter your background, today's episode will give you practical advice on how to do that.

JR started Kairos Partnerships, an organization committed to equipping leaders to grow. He is a leadership consultant with a wide range of businesses and is the host of the Resilient Leaders podcast. He's also the author of 13 books on a variety of topics.

He talked with me about one of those books, *The Art of Asking Better Questions: Pursuing Stronger Relationships, Healthier Leadership, and Deeper Faith*, which is full of tips on living with curiosity and intentionality. So here's that conversation I had with JR Briggs on ReFOCUS with Jim Daly.

JR, thanks for joining me on ReFOCUS.

JR Briggs: Well, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Jim Daly: I'm a football fan, so I'll let it go that you're in Philadelphia and the Eagles are pretty good and the Broncos are getting better, so we'll just leave it at that. It's possible we might meet in the Super Bowl in the future.

Now, I'm here to interview you, and it's funny because you've written this book, *The Art of Asking Better Questions*. So maybe at the end you can give me a letter grade on how I did in asking you these questions. But what is the purpose and importance of asking questions? Some people just don't ask them because they don't really care.

JR Briggs: The quality of your life is determined by the quality of the questions that you ask yourself, God, and others. What I've found, and what many other people have found, is that the dimensions of our lives expand or shrink depending upon the questions that we ask.

I can't think of a single area where improving the quality of questions won't improve the quality of your life and the lives of those around you, and of course our relationship with God. God asks a lot of questions. Jesus asks a lot of questions. And we are actually invited to ask the God of the universe questions as well. So it's really wonderful how it all works.

Jim Daly: I'm smiling because a grant gifting group sent me an eight-page questionnaire to fill out for a $20,000 grant. It was rigorous. The first question they asked me was, "What question will you want to ask God when you first enter into heaven?"

I'm thinking, "What's for dinner?" Who am I to ask God the question that's going to stump the Lord? I haven't even thought about it. And the thought that flashed through my head was, "I think the Lord enjoys cooking fish. That's what I read in scripture. So, hey Lord, what's for dinner?" But what are we getting at when we open our soul and we ask questions? What does that show the listener to our question?

JR Briggs: There are lots of benefits. I think that often people think questions are just to receive more information. That's part of it. That's an important part of it. But it also is for connection. In fact, that's why God asks so many questions. Why is the all-knowing God asking questions? It's not for more information. It's for connection.

We often forget how important questions are for connection. But in addition to that, it could be for clarification, it can be for amplification, it can be to explore new things, to discover things together, for creativity. There's just so much power in questions.

I think that it has been latent. I don't think there's anybody that says questions are bad. But I have found that the majority of people say, "Yeah, questions are just questions." I don't think we fully understand the power of questions.

I challenge people to say, "I can't think of a single relationship in my life, can you think of one in your life that is ongoing, healthy and deep where it was free of questions?" All of our strong relationships in life, whether it's a spouse, a close friend, a pastor, a small group, someone in our small group, a child, we have asked questions. They've asked questions of us. That's how relationship deepens.

Jim Daly: It was so interesting reading the prep in the book. It prompted me to send to my 25-year-old son, Trent, kind of a "that-a-boy" because he's really good at asking questions. He's just developed that. It wasn't like I set out as his father to say, "Now, here's how you're going to ask questions."

He has developed it, and he enjoys that kind of penetrating question. I remember one that he asked me: "If you could live 100 years from now or 100 years backward, which would you prefer and why?" I thought, "Wow, that's a good question."

JR Briggs: That's a great question. That's fantastic your son does that. We need to find people who do that right and celebrate them. I'm really glad you sent that text to your son because question askers need to be affirmed, and we need more of them. We just need to celebrate more of those in our culture. I'm glad you do that.

Jim Daly: In your book, you said that the culture values good answers more than good questions. When you look at cable news and social media, I could see that. It's just like spewing at us all day. Nobody's stopping to say, "Tell me what you think." It doesn't get clicks, probably. But why do we value as a culture answers over questions?

JR Briggs: Several reasons. First of all, certainty is more fun. We feel much more at ease when there's certainty than when things are open-ended. We worship in our culture, we worship at the altar of efficiency and progress. Oftentimes, that's how we become more efficient.

In fact, how many times have we been in a meeting where we're about to stand up, thinking the meeting is over, and someone says, "I have a question," and we go, "Agh." It slows things down. It provides depth, but sometimes it slows it down.

If we care about certainty, if we care about efficiency, and if we care about being right, we value people that seem to, and I say the word "seem," seem to have all the answers, to have it all together. Because of those things are present, we are pushing back against some cultural norms of what it means to be successful, what it means to be productive in our culture.

We've got to rewrite some of that and realize that if we follow in the way of Jesus, Jesus actually asked a lot of questions, even though as a second member of the Trinity, he had all the answers along with his Father, and yet he still asks. It's just baffling.

Jim Daly: It's a mind-twister. I've thought about that a lot. I think you said in the book it's 40 to 1? Jesus asks 40 questions to every one answer. Is that right?

JR Briggs: Yes, that's right. He asked over 300 questions that are recorded, and he was asked over 180, and he only directly answered five of them. It's just fascinating some of the stats that are involved with Jesus and his questions in the Gospels.

Jim Daly: We're talking about that cultural engagement where asking good questions in the presence of people that don't think the way you think. And we're going to get into more of that. But I was thinking even at the marriage level, something I struggle with, to be honest with you, that I need to work on, and my dear wife Jean is helping me work on this because it drives her nuts.

I like to ask a question and then answer the question that I've asked her. In other words, she'll start to answer the question, and I'm thinking, like a German who burps after a meal, it's a compliment. So when I finish her sentence as she's struggling to answer me, I see that as help. She doesn't quite see it that way, JR. So just in that marriage context, how do we become better at asking and listening?

JR Briggs: There's a term for what you just described, Jim, and it's called "boomerasking." It's not boomers that ask questions. It's just like a boomerang, where we ask a question, we throw it out, and it comes right back to us and we answer it. Boomerasking is something that you're not alone in; many people wrestle with that boomerasking as well.

Jim Daly: I'm going to explain it that way to Jean tonight when I get home. I'll say, "I know what I'm doing, it's boomerasking," and she'll be delighted that I have at least a diagnosis for my problem.

JR Briggs: It's a start, right?

Jim Daly: It's a start. But it happens even in our relationships close to our home, in our family. You attended a dinner party hosted by a Muslim couple. I love this example where the focus stayed on everyday life rather than the deep differences that we might have theologically, etc. Why do you think that made the conversation richer and not contentious?

JR Briggs: I think everybody around the table was emotionally intelligent enough to realize that these are wonderful people here, we're aware of our differences, we don't have to go there. So we just began asking questions like, "What's been your favorite place that you've traveled to outside the US?"

And then we threw out the question, "Okay, if someone handed you a free ticket to go for a week anywhere in the world you've never been before, where would you go?" And so it became, "Oh, that's my answer too!" and "Oh, I've never thought about going there." We just began to laugh and tell stories and "I never thought about that." That's when I step back and say, "This is what happens when we're just genuinely curious and we seek to lean in and ask meaningful questions."

Jim Daly: JR, that raises a question for me, again for the Christian who wants to live their life in such a way that honors the Lord, which is a good endeavor. We look at the fact that God created us for relationship. So putting those things all together, we also see the Lord seemingly having a good time at the dinner table. Even the Pharisees and scribes were suspect of him because he seemed to enjoy himself in a group of people around a meal.

It raises this question for me: at times are we driving for some solution or resolution as opposed to just having relationship, just relaxing a little and allowing that relationship to develop in such a way that it opens another person's heart for a later conversation about deeply held beliefs and differences that we may have? That's a hard place to start a conversation, at the deepest end of the pool, rather than starting up here and laughing together and telling stories and just getting to know each other.

JR Briggs: That's exactly right. My dad always likes to say, "Never force the rose bloom open on your own. You've got to water it, but let it bloom on its own." I think in many ways we focus too much sometimes on wanting to run ahead on evangelism by forcing the bloom open on the rosebud rather than saying, "Let's water it. Let's protect it. Let's make sure the pH in the soil is where it needs to be and let it bloom when it's ready."

No one likes a forced relationship. No one likes a forced conversation. But when it naturally blooms, it's amazing. I've had to do that by being patient in certain relationships to say, "Lord, I really want to share my faith here in this situation." And there are times to draw on our courage, of course.

But there are other times to say, "You know what? I just need to let the flower bloom and it's on God's timing, not mine." Lord, would you grant me patience in addition to courage and the sensitivity to know when that time has arrived and the rose has bloomed?

Jim Daly: I read a statistic somewhere that said the number of touches a non-believer engages in with believers by the time they make a decision for Christ is right around 11 or 12. I can't remember, it was either 11 or 12.

I thought to myself, what I need to be cognizant of and better at is knowing generally, am I the first, second, third conversation for this person, or am I 9, 10, 11? That's a different approach when somebody has or demonstrates no curiosity or some curiosity. You know where to go with that, right?

But you've got to read the room and know socially, and I think Holy Spirit-driven, where you're at in that process and particularly where the other person is in their process of data collection, information on Christ, who was he, who are the disciples, what's the New Testament about, those kinds of things. Speak to that more linear, Greek approach to how somebody comes to Christ.

JR Briggs: I've seen that statistic as well. One of the things that you may say, "I may be number 1, number 4, number 6, number 11 or 12." I don't know if we'll ever know what number we are in line, but at least to say, "I'm going to be present and show up."

I'm really encouraged about the story in Acts 8 of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. The angel tells him what? Just go and stand by the chariot. He didn't say share his faith. He just says go stand by the chariot. He sees the eunuch reading the scroll and he just asks a question, back to questions: "Do you understand what you're reading?" And the guy responds with a question back: "How can I unless someone explains it to me?"

He's reading from Isaiah and this great story unfolds simply because it says Philip ran, didn't walk, it said he ran to the chariot and he asked a question. That's how it showed up. It reminded me just this past Saturday, our youngest son runs high school track and I dropped him off at track practice and I was biding my time, had to wait an hour and a half.

So I drove up the street to a Whole Foods and went in to just get a slice of pizza and read a book while I waited till practice was over. I have a baseball cap that I wear that's a black cap with a white question mark on it. I walked in and this guy looked at me kind of strange and I just said, "Hey, good afternoon." And he said, "What's up with the hat?" And I said, "Well, I love questions and there's a baseball team that used to be in Chicago about 100 years ago called the Clearing Question Marks."

So my love of baseball and of questions meets together. So I asked him, "Because I love questions, I've got to ask you one. What's the best question you've ever asked or been asked?" He said, "Are you an academic?" I said, "Well, I have my doctorate but mostly I'm in leadership development." And he said, "Well, what's your doctorate in?" I said, "Theology." And he said, "Well, since you said that, the best question that I have asked is: 'God, are you real?'"

I'm two minutes into walking in the door of Whole Foods in this conversation about Christ right by the salad bar. But I met this guy Tom and we had this great conversation and I just walked away saying, "Spirit, I just need to be present to walk in and to see what flowers are blooming in the room where it may be an opportunity to connect." That was not on my bingo card when I woke up that I would be talking about Christ by the salad bar at Whole Foods wearing a baseball hat. But it worked out. I think that we need to look for those.

Jim Daly: It's interesting though, you did wear the hat. But it's good. Let me ask you this difference, though. A question mark on the hat is kind of a low barrier to entry. That guy could ask that because it caught his attention, like "What is this guy trying to communicate?"

If your hat would have said, "Only through Jesus are you saved," it kind of, again, it starts in a place that is much later in the conversation and it can put up a barrier when a barrier doesn't need to exist. Some people are going to hear that and go, "Are you embarrassed of the gospel?" Not at all! But I'm just saying there is, like the Lord demonstrated, a tactfulness that is sensitive to where a person is starting.

Woman at the well, woman caught in adultery, I mean the Lord really did lower the boom on those trying to accuse her. So I'm trying to synthesize what the Lord was showing us and what the scribes of scripture wrote for us being with him. How do we interpret that? How do we look at that and say, "Okay, that's a great first touch as opposed to something bold and in your face"?

JR Briggs: I always go back to the idea of wisdom, James 1:5. If any of us lacks wisdom, we should ask God who gives generously and without finding fault and he will do it. So when it comes to this idea, I often pray, "Lord, would you give me wisdom, courage, and compassion?"

Because all three of those are needed, even in how we engage with people who are different than us and in scripture. Evangelism, I love this definition. Somebody described evangelism as changing people's assumptions about God and his people.

That has really stuck with me, especially in what's often described as a post-Christian culture where people, in some ways while I want to ask questions, I also want to live in such a way where I'm charmingly questionable. And what I mean by that is not living a character that's questionable, but where people go, "You don't fit my category of what I thought a Christian would be. Wow, maybe God is someone I can trust and maybe Christians aren't as weird as I imagined." And that's often when people lean in and say, "Tell me more." And I think if we can live questionable lives where Jesus did that, where not only did he ask questions, but he raised a bunch of questions in others by how he lived and what he taught.

Jim Daly: I had the privilege of playing golf with Alice Cooper, and he's got quite a testimony. He came to Christ 40 years ago and he was having difficulties with alcoholism, and this is out there on the internet, I'm not sharing anything he hasn't shared publicly. But his wife really challenged him that he needed to clean up his act, so to speak.

He's the son of a pastor, his grandfather was a pastor. In talking with him in that round of golf, it was kind of funny because he told me about speaking to an atheist one time and the atheist was challenging him on his faith in Christ. He said, "I just decided to look past him as if he weren't there." And then he blurted out, "I'm sorry, I really can't hear what you're saying because I don't believe in you."

He just let that sink into the atheist. So God may be there. He is there. But you're ignoring him, like I'm ignoring you right now was the message. I thought, what a brilliant way to start that conversation by ignoring the atheist because you don't believe he's truly there. It's kind of funny. You emphasize three ultimate big questions. I think Alice Cooper was kind of hitting on this indirectly, but what are the three that you've emphasized in the book?

JR Briggs: This idea: "Who is God?", "Who are we?", and "How do we live?" Every worldview has three driving questions that drive our human existence across all cultures and across all periods of time. So who is God, or is there a God (questions of ultimate meaning), who are we (questions about human identity and our nature), and then how are we to live (questions about the good life)?

What is the good life? What is ethics? Are morals needed? These big three questions form the foundation of philosophy, education, art, literature, and of course religion. And I don't often come out with those three in talking to people, but I'm often looking to do dot-to-dot evangelism of looking how can I connect with these three points in my conversations with others.

Jim Daly: As we look at culture today, and here at Focus on the Family, as we're dealing with questions that come into us—thankfully, almost two million households will get in touch with us every year to ask a question about their marriage, their parenting, what have you, the culture—that's great to be able to provide an answer, hopefully, that's biblically rooted and delivers hope to that questioner.

But what do you think's going on in the culture, especially with 20, 30-somethings who they seem to be, and experts, those demographers that are watching that age group, they're lonelier than ever before, they feel more isolated, they don't know purpose. This is what they've expressed: "I don't know what the purpose of all this is."

And it's right there in those three big questions: Who is God? Who are we? How do we live? How are we falling short as the church in not helping 20, 30-somethings and teens, frankly, better understand that they're made in the image of God, that their life has a purpose, and helping them connect those dots so they can lock into something bigger than themselves?

JR Briggs: I'm really glad you brought up the questions that they ask. There's something that Gordon MacDonald actually brought to my attention and I included in the book, where he said that we ask different questions in different decades of our lives.

When I first heard this, I was in my late 30s and I thought, "Oh boy," and I went back and rewound all the preaching in my mind and realized, "Uh-oh, I answered the questions that I was asking as the preacher. I'm not sure I was preaching thinking about the questions that each person was asking in each decade of their life."

So when I think about my 96-year-old grandfather who recently passed away, the questions he was asking were very different than his grandkids and his great-grandkids were asking. So just by asking, "What kind of questions are dominating your thinking as a 20-something and a 30-something?" is a great start.

You listed many of the ones: anxiety, of course, comes up. "Will I always be this anxious? Will I ever be able to buy a house?" is the American Dream a possibility? These are ones. So it makes me think of the song by U2, "11 O'Clock Tick Tock," where Bono, he said, "We thought we had all the answers, but it was the questions that we had wrong."

I think that's really important as we think about how do we meet people where they are and journey with them to where God wants them to be. Part of figuring out and meeting them where they are is saying, "What questions are you currently asking?" We can't really know our neighbors until we know their hopes and their fears in order to love them well. And I think questions can help reveal those.

Jim Daly: Would you think one of the reasons—I think a big fight that we have within ourselves in the culture today in modernity—is comfort. And when we start asking big questions, it requires something of us to respond. After the question and the neighbor says something, now we're talking about engagement and dinner with them and commitment.

A lot of us, and I tend to be in this space—I've got a busy schedule, and it's terrible, but I'm giving you the honest truth—you start thinking about that. To be effective, you've really got to let that go and allow the Holy Spirit to give you some guidance on where to spend your time. But again, the challenge is our selfishness in that regard to live quiet lives, so quiet that we don't even know our neighbor. So go ahead and jump on that. The question in there is probably something like, how do we get out of our selfishness and into investing in other people by asking good questions?

JR Briggs: Well, not to get meta, but Jim, that's a fantastic question that I think all of us as followers of Jesus, we need to be asking of ourselves. Any good question involves four things: curiosity, wisdom, humility, and courage. You hit on that last one: courage. The courage to ask, "Why am I doing this? Why don't I have margin for this? Why does this feel like an interruption?"

I've had to shift from thinking, "Wow, I wish I could do ministry without interruption," until you realize ministry is in the interruption. Well, I don't like that as someone who loves a schedule and loves to stick to a schedule. And so what is it that in me then that needs to be reworked and renewed in order for God to do his work in me to be someone who loves God and loves my neighbor very well? And I'm with you. I want to speed ahead oftentimes and say, "Lord, help me understand why I'm doing this."

Jim Daly: That spiritual intimacy with the Lord, I feel like, is most strong when our sail, the metaphor of our sailboat, is moving in the harbor. The wind is taking us somewhere. If we've got the sail down and we're dead at the dock, there's just not that same intimate experience with the Lord as opposed to saying, "Okay Lord, where do you want me today? Who do I need to pay attention to? Let me in on a conversation that you want me to tip into for your purposes," that kind of thing. I don't pray that prayer often enough. I should do it every morning.

I know a gentleman, a friend of mine out in Newport Beach in California, he gets up every day and says, "Bill here, Lord, reporting for duty," right when his feet touch the ground out of bed. I just love that metaphor.

Let me ask you this: Rabbi Jonathan Sacks argued that religion survives because it answers the soul's deepest questions. As I was talking to my wife Jean about this this morning, that's a great observation. Religions are 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 years old when you look at the big five: Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

There is something that is appeasing the soul in terms of the deeper questions, and the fact that science and material thought has not been able to uproot that out of humanity is very interesting and a great observation, that those deeper questions aren't answered by the material world.

JR Briggs: That's exactly right. In fact, I think of when the author of Ecclesiastes says God has created eternity, placed eternity in the hearts of men and women. I think that's one of the pieces that Jonathan Sacks is speaking about here. There's something inherent in us that we have questions and we want answers to those most important questions again back to: who is God, who are we, how are we to live?

It reminds me of that ancient parable, that story of a rabbi who was praying long ago, thousands of years ago, and he was walking back home. He was so intent in prayer, instead of taking a right to go home, he took a left and accidentally found himself at the foot of a Roman fortress. He heard a Roman centurion bark out to him, "Who are you and what are you doing here?"

The man opened the gate to the fortress and looked at this little rabbi, and the rabbi said, "How much do they pay you?" He said, "One denarius every day. Why?" And he said, "I'll pay you two denarii if you are at the foot of my bed every morning and ask me those two questions: 'Who are you and what are you doing here?'" That's the inherent idea of what it means to be made in the image of God. It means that we ask all sorts of questions that simple material answers don't suffice.

Jim Daly: We did a film called *Truth Rising* that tried to—it was Os Guinness and John Stonestreet—but we had different people on the street interviews and people who are living in persecution, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has an incredible testimony growing up as a Muslim, and then didn't want to be in this arranged marriage so she fled home, moved to Europe where she eventually became a politician and then came out against Islam and actually joined more of the atheist club with Richard Dawkins and others and would debate people of faith.

Then she found herself leaning too much into alcohol and became alcoholic and then found freedom in Christ. To sit and listen to her—and I would encourage people if you haven't seen *Truth Rising*, it's free, just go to Focus on the Family's website and you can get it, and it's a 90-minute documentary—but her story was so captivating because I think in the end she was asking all the questions you're talking about. But she didn't find it until she was in despair with alcoholism and then found Christ in that moment.

Speak to that reality of a person's journey and why God is close to the brokenhearted and saves those crushed in spirit, which is what the scripture says. There's some connection with being at your wit's end and finding Christ in that moment.

JR Briggs: There's something about adversity and hardship and suffering that forces us to ask questions we wouldn't normally ask when things are going so well. I think that's also in Ecclesiastes where it says better to go to the house of mourning than the house of feasting.

One of the ways, I believe, the implications of that is we are asking questions at funerals we do not ask at weddings about life. "Will I be ready? What if that's me? What if I'm in the casket?" And I think that that is how God has wired us as humans, the image of God stamped on us and in us, that we ask questions especially so in times of adversity when we feel like life, when the rug has been pulled out from under us.

Jim Daly: We mentioned Jesus asking 40 questions to every one answer that he gave. You are aware of a study about people being more likable when they ask more questions. This is really interesting. I guess the question is, what did you find in that study that showed that hand, that you're more likable if you ask questions? Why?

JR Briggs: I've actually found dozens and dozens of studies on this about the numerous benefits of asking good questions. People who ask frequent questions are more popular among their peers, they're often seen as leaders, they have more social influence, they're sought out for friendship and advice, they navigate difficult and crucial conversations effectively. It even leads to better reading comprehension.

There's another one that said when people are getting to know each other, those who ask more questions are better liked, and the people who ask follow-up questions are liked even more. Simply put, people like people who ask great questions.

Jim Daly: Can I give this some framework? Because I think it points to something pretty important. We give that question asker higher points in relationship because they want to know more about me. There's a little ego, I think, in that, that we're very appreciative of people who are interested in our story.

And I think it's completely natural. It's so nice to be able to talk about your testimony with somebody who asks questions about that. "Tell me about your childhood. Tell me why that was important to you. Tell me how your mother or father mistreated you." It does allow you to express deep emotions that you're appreciating someone's listening to.

But also speak to humility, which is God's character. This is what I love about the Lord: 40 questions to every one answer. And he knows all the answers! And he knows all the questions! But that God himself in his own character is a God of humility. And the fact that asking questions is evidence of humility. Speak to that connection.

JR Briggs: Absolutely. When I'm asking a question, at least on a human side, not a God side, I am admitting I don't know something most of the time. Now God, knowing everything, is not doing that. It's his relational nature.

Questions create opportunities for dialogue rather than monologue. They foster deeper intimacy between creator and creation. And what an act of God's amazing humility to us to ask questions. He asks Adam and Eve, "Where are you?" That was not a geographical question. That was a relational one designed to draw them out of hiding, right?

He asks Hagar, "Where have you come from and where are you going?" To Elijah he says, "What are you doing here?" Sarah, "Is anything too difficult for the Lord?" Moses, "What's in your hand?"

But I think the best example, Jim, is looking at the book of Job. Job actually has more questions in the book than any other book of our Bible. Over 300 questions are just in the book of Job. It is the most question-dense book in the Bible. And when God responds to Job's suffering, Job kind of accuses God in some pretty bold ways there.

He never provides direct answers, but he unleashes over 60 rhetorical questions across five chapters of basically, "Where were you when I created this, Job?" And yet significantly, Job never receives direct answers to his questions, but instead God offered his presence and reminds Job of the vastness of his wisdom. So there's intimacy and humility there. But there are times where God, if I could say this, flexes his muscles a little bit too by asking some rhetorical questions as well.

Jim Daly: So many of those scriptures: "Know that I am God," oh, and you're not. Those are good memories. You mentioned Bono from U2. I had the pleasure of interviewing him years ago, and he was very kind of him to say yes. We were in New York. We put that together. I would say we're not going to agree on some social issues, and I get that.

But back then, as I talked to him, he was a guest that used more scripture than any other previous guest I could remember. One of the unique things he said to me as we were talking about the humility of God, he said, "Think of the Father—of course, in that great Irish brogue—think of the Father and the fact that he could have created room at the inn for Joseph and Mary to have his son. But he chose to allow his son to be born in straw and," he didn't use the word "manure." I'll do that for our listeners, but he was more graphic.

And he did that with purpose, and he had this smile on his face. He was facing me and all the team was behind him so nobody could see his facial expressions but me. And it just clicked in my head that he was doing that very purposefully as a creative soul to try to grab the imagination of people to think more deeply. Not the sanitized version of manure, but the guttural use of that word which is four letters. And it does kind of arrest you to say, "Wow, that God's humility was that deep. He could have zapped a room in existence for Mary and Joseph. But he chose to let him be born in a manger, which is a rock out-clay full of animal poop." Why? Why would you do that, Lord? But it was to demonstrate his very humility. That's an amazing way to look at that scripture, isn't it?

JR Briggs: Absolutely. And the humility that God modeled and then of course sending his son as you just mentioned, and then Jesus, if anyone had the right to just bring answers, it would be Jesus. Right?

33 years, 30 of those years in manual labor and obscurity, and then starting his ministry, and you'd think, "Okay, now I'm ready to start my ministry and I'm just going to give you all answers." And yet in those three years of ministry, he still chose to ask a ton of questions.

And as Christians, we study his teachings, we study his miracles, we study his parables, but seldom do we study his questions: what he asked, how he asked, where he asked, and ultimately the impact that those questions had on people's lives. I think we really need to pay attention to that percentage and that ratio that Jesus uses and the amount of life change that happens on the other side of those questions that he asks.

Jim Daly: That's going to stick in my head forever. 40 to 1. 40 questions to every one answer. Jesus as a child, you mentioned in the book how Jesus was a great example in the temple as a young boy and your observations of that dialogue. Tell us what you see in that discourse.

JR Briggs: His first recorded words were questions to his parents in the temple, right? They can't find him for three days and like any stressed-out mother, "Why did you do this to us, Jesus?" And on the surface, it sounds snarky. He says, "Where did you think I would be? Of course I would be in my Father's house."

Now that sounds like a little snarky 12-year-old boy, but there's so much theological weight to him saying that. "Where else would I be other than with my Father, communing with my Father?" It's actually a trinitarian statement he's making on that, he's not being rude.

And I just find that to be so rich, not only his first recorded words with his parents in the temple, but his final words on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Even after the resurrection, he continues to ask questions.

So we see first recorded words, last recorded words on the cross, and then post-resurrection, he's still asking. And I'm just so amazed by his humility and his desire to love creation by engaging us with questions.

Jim Daly: And in that context, I mean, in the temple as a boy, he was again noticed because he was asking such mature questions for someone his age that even the teachers in that synagogue were saying, "Hmm, where's this boy getting this wisdom from?"

JR Briggs: It wasn't his answers; it was his questions. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Jim Daly: That's incredible. Let me ask you some practical questions believers can ask that do open up spiritual conversations. I know we talked about those four levels, but let's go a little deeper in there. There's news, weather, and sports, that kind of opens the door. I've got friendships that we tend to stay there.

Jean and I have that conversation when I get back from playing golf and "How's Bob's marriage doing?" "Oh, is there a problem in Bob's marriage?" "Yes, didn't you know? You were with him for four hours. You guys didn't talk about it?" "No, we talked about his new driver." So that's one level. But let's go a little deeper.

JR Briggs: Not every question is created equal, right? You mentioned Level 1 question there, like his new driver. Level 1 questions are questions for information. They're simple facts, they're transactional, they're straightforward, there's low risk in the relationship: What's your name? What time does the show begin? etc. Strangers can engage in Level 1 questions; it's not awkward.

Level 2 questions go a little bit deeper. Those are questions for interaction, where those are for thoughts and emotions. It requires a little bit of relational context and trust but engages with those emotions like: "How are you feeling as you go into today's meeting?" or "When did you become interested in kayaking?" Oftentimes the realm of small talk, which serves an important function, goes a little bit deeper into Level 2.

Level 3, these are questions for understanding where we turn up the heat a little bit, feelings and desires. So this explores hopes and dreams and disappointments: "What do you really want in life? What are some of your fears as you approach this weekend?" The heart of meaningful relationships, Jim, I would imagine most of the relationships of depth that you and I have are in that Level 3 area.

But there's even a fourth level, and that fourth level are questions for transformation. This requires ultimate vulnerability and intimacy. So this is with a spouse, this is maybe with a pastor or an accountability partner or somebody I've known a lifelong close friend. It really plumbs the depths of our human experience.

So it could be: "When do you feel most fully seen?" or "What are you afraid to tell me?" This is reserved for a small circle of our closest relationships. And so if we can think about questions on those levels, Jim, you and I have probably been in situations where all of a sudden somebody asks a question and you go, "Whoa, that's a little too personal." It's because they went too quickly to that next level without trust being developed. Trust has to be developed before we can go to the next level.

Jim Daly: That's so true. And I think in a marriage context, this is an area where wives can get really frustrated with husbands because we tend to linger in Level 1, Level 2 questions. I think in part we compartmentalize. There is an emotional vulnerability to going to 3 and 4 as you described them, so we bobble along there. Just as additional insight, what advice would you give husbands to engage a little more deep with your wife and ask questions that matter to her?

JR Briggs: Well, one of the things I encourage, whether it's leaders or husbands or anybody that wants to think more about this, is to think more critically about the questions you ask. I actually have them create a piece of paper with four quadrants on it and I say, "Let's generate, just take five minutes and generate: what are some Level 1 questions?"

And it could be as simple as, "Honey, how was your meeting today, your lunch meeting that you had at noon today with your friend?" Great. And then Level 2, let's generate three or four potential, and Level 3 and Level 4.

And simply have that. Some people take a picture of it and have it on their phone or put it in the notes section of their phone. Not that they pull it out in the middle of dinner, but that they have that ready and they can add to that list as well. Just being aware of the questions we ask, of the levels, and then even just having those accessible can be another simple way just to be 5 or 10 percent more intentional and prepared than we were before.

Jim Daly: I think that's the point. There needs to be intentionality. Intentionality makes all the difference in the world. In that regard, you had a story in the book about a journalist named Steve. What was his story and how did you connect with him?

JR Briggs: Several years ago, Steve, a local reporter at our local newspaper, reached out saying he'd like to do a feature story on our church about an initiative that we were launching to bless the community. I agreed to meet with him on one condition. I said, "When the story comes out, I treat you to lunch and I'd love to get to know you and your story a little bit more." And he said in all the years I've ever been reporting, no one has ever asked this of me before.

I did that for a few reasons, partly because I wanted to get to know him but also I figured if there was some accountability he would write a little bit of a kinder story to us if he knew he had to face me afterwards. And so he agreed.

After the piece came out, it was very nice, Steve and I met for lunch at a diner just a few blocks away from our home. I asked a few Level 1 type questions, like how'd you first get into journalism and what do you like about your job? And then I just asked this question: "Steve, tell me your story. Who is Steve?" And I had hardly finished asking the question when he just began to cry.

It was Charles Spurgeon who said that tears are liquid prayers, and I immediately thought about that when he started crying. He told me, he said, "Look, I'm not a very religious person," when we started dinner or lunch. I said, "No problem, I can respect that."

But I took a little bit of a risk. This was a Level 3, maybe Level 3-plus question and I said, "You know Steve," and he talked about his marriage falling apart and he talked about how he wasn't very fulfilled in his life and he didn't know his purpose. And so his tears were—I mean he started sobbing. The waitress came over and she kind of realized he was in a puddle and she very awkwardly said, "Uh, I'll leave you two alone and come back in a few minutes." She didn't quite know how to respond.

But I said to him, I said, "Steve, tears are liquid prayers. I know you said you're not a very religious person. But can you put words to the prayer that your face is praying right now?" And he took a long pause, he cried some more and kind of gathered himself and he said, "Right now my face is praying: 'God help me, I'm alone, I just want to know that I'm not going to be alone and I'm going to be okay.'" And then he just kept saying, "Help me God, just help me, just help me, just help me."

And the simplicity and the honesty and the courage by which Steve shared was so moving for me. And I thought, hmm, my job is just to show up, to pay attention to Steve, to ask questions. And I'm really glad the Spirit encouraged me to ask that question. "If tears are liquid prayers, can you put words to those prayers on your cheeks?" and it opened something up for us.

Jim Daly: In so many ways, the way I've described that, it's the cracking of the crusty heart. Those were great questions for his heart to be broken. I've often said, it feels like to me in those experiences—they're not the same but similar conversations—when there's sincerity and truly love of humanity being expressed from you, from me, from others, there's something in our spiritual DNA that cannot resist it.

It cracks open the heart and the Holy Spirit can then move. It's a beautiful thing to see. And unfortunately, we just don't see that often enough because I don't think we're doing the hard work or even the soft work of allowing that person's heart to open up, right? I think the combination where we're working with the Holy Spirit in that regard and then those deep answers can come to those deep questions.

Share the example of the shuttle driver and how you asked a meaningful question that again turned that person's mind.

JR Briggs: A few months ago on my way to catch a flight from Philadelphia to Dallas, I was sitting next to Tarik, and he's a friendly shuttle driver at this off-site parking company I use where I'd left my car. I do this frequently enough flying from Philadelphia out of Philadelphia that it's about an eight-minute drive from the shuttle to the terminal itself.

So I placed my luggage on the luggage rack and took a seat and I asked Tarik if he was just starting his shift or if he was just about to be done. And in his very thick Middle Eastern accent, he said, "Just started." And I said, "Where are you from?" He said, "Iraq."

And I asked him about his family and he proudly told me that he had worked six days a week since 2009 driving this shuttle bus to save up enough money to pay for his two sons to go to college. And in very slightly broken English, he said, "Both of them graduate from Temple University a few years ago." I said, "Wow, congratulations, you must be so proud."

And he smiled, this time with tears in his eyes, and he said, "It's proudest thing I ever done in my lifetime." And then there were tears in my eyes too. I mean the amount of sacrifice of this guy, the American Dream, six days a week since 2009. Yeah.

And when I arrived at the terminal, I grabbed my bag, handed him a tip and thanked him, and as I'm walking to TSA, I thought, "Eight minutes." That's all it was. Eight minutes by just asking a few questions of Tarik and I got this amazing story that I was so inspired by and we both shared a moment of wiping tears from our eyes.

And I just, more than patting myself on the back, it was, "Lord, how many other opportunities do I miss of seemingly common things like eight minutes of just driving from the parking lot to the terminal?" And so those sorts of wake-up calls help me keep my radar up to be more sensitive to opportunities around me if I'm willing to engage with them.

Jim Daly: For sure. I save the best for last, I think. When I read this story in your book, my jaw was open. My wife Jean, when I expressed it to her, she goes, "I've got to look that up," because it sounded unbelievable.

And this is the story of Daryl Davis, an African American gentleman who made it a purpose to engage people from the Ku Klux Klan. I mean, this sounds like a movie. Tell me about Daryl and what he did.

JR Briggs: I came across Daryl a handful of years ago, and there's a documentary on his life which is absolutely fascinating. Daryl Davis—and I believe he's a follower of Jesus—is one of the most unique collections. As you mentioned, he is connected with the KKK and again, he's an African American. So he owns more than 200 KKK robes and hoods.

He's an accomplished jazz and blues musician, but he's met and befriended countless members of the KKK over the past 30-plus years. Many of them admitted they had never met a black man until they interacted with Daryl. And through Daryl's proactive and compassionate pursuit and relationship with them, he helped many of them leave the KKK altogether.

And as a gift of him leaving, they give it to Daryl. And each robe and hood that he owns as a gift, he wants to actually open a museum to actually show all of these colorful robes and hoods. But all of this started, these unlikely friendships started simply because Daryl would ask numerous questions, but he would always ask this one: "Why do you hate me if you know nothing about me?"

And that simple and piercing question, these KKK members didn't have an answer. And I just love that, you talk about the crack, talk about cracking people's hearts open. "How can you hate me when you know nothing about me?" What a great question.

Jim Daly: Christians, we're in a great spot right now to be asking that question because there's so much aspersion thrown at us about what we are: bigots and hypocrites and all the labels that come, I think predominantly out of social media. But what a great way to react with calmness, with perspective, maybe with a couple of great questions like you've done today.

JR, this has been wonderful and I hope people get a copy of the book, *The Art of Asking Better Questions: Pursuing Stronger Relationships, Healthier Leadership, and Deeper Faith*. I mean, that's an equation for success in this life. And thank you so much for being with us. This has been a great discussion.

JR Briggs: Well, thanks so much, Jim. It's been a joy.

Jim Daly: Well, that conversation was so eye-opening because there are so many opportunities to impact others in our daily lives that we typically miss, me included.

The culture can be so discouraging that we shy away from engaging with those who disagree with us. But you might be surprised by the connections you can make with others when you stay curious about them. That's kind of the key.

It can feel like there is widespread anger at Christians, but that anger is often a cover for deep hurt and a desire for the kind of love that only Jesus offers. As Colossians 4:5-6 says: "Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

That's a great scripture for today. Like JR mentioned, part of knowing how to answer everyone is listening to and understanding the questions they're asking. Engaging with our neighbors and co-workers graciously and asking intentional questions will open so many doors to influence the culture for Christ.

You can find more examples of real-life situations and learn ways to strengthen your conversations with others in JR's book, *The Art of Asking Better Questions*. So please get a copy from us today.

When you make a donation of any amount to ReFOCUS, we'll send you the book as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry. We're listener-supported, so we rely on your donations to keep releasing more episodes and reaching more listeners. When you partner with us in ministry, you help us be a voice for Christ in the culture and provide resources that equip you to join us in those efforts. So thank you.

Now for the Inbox segment. Here's a voicemail from Sue.

Sue (Voicemail): I've been listening to Focus on the Family for a long time, and I really appreciate the podcast. But I have been struggling because a person in my life who has a lot of hatred toward Christianity and has listened to the lies of LGBTQ ideology, that person is my son. He's an adult now, and it feels hard to connect to him since he doesn't believe what I believe anymore. What would you recommend I do to try to show Christ's love to him?

Jim Daly: Sue, it's a great question, and it's one that we get often here at Focus on the Family. One of the things is trying a little different tact. As we do something over and over again and it gets no results, let's try something new. Maybe a little more winsome.

For example, asking him questions, like we talked about today. What is it you believe? The challenge is you're going to have to not interrupt, just be quiet and listen to him express it. And then hopefully, by you asking those leading questions, it will drive him toward a logical path.

And of course, faith isn't just logical, but it's also emotional. So I think opening him up in the discussion with great questions, like: "How do you think we're created? I think you can look at science, you could look at anatomy. How do you think God intended us to be?" And I think you can just be quiet and let him stumble into some things and some rationalizations that I think are as plain as our hands and feet.

There's also great books that will give you more depth, specifically on LGBTQ issues to give you a little more ability. And all you need to do is call Focus on the Family at 1-800-A-FAMILY, and our counselors or help specialists will guide you through some resources that will improve that area of your understanding.

But Sue, thanks for sending that question. And since I answered it here on the podcast, I want to send you a copy of *ReFOCUS: Living a Life That Reflects God's Heart*.

If you have a question or comment for me, please send me a voicemail or leave a comment in the contact form. I want to hear about the experiences you're having in the culture, so that we can ensure that the podcast covers the issues that you want to hear about. The links are in the show notes, and I again would love to hear from you.

Thanks for listening to ReFOCUS with Jim Daly, and don't forget to like, listen, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Next time on ReFOCUS, Victoria Jackson, former Saturday Night Live star, shares about her journey with the Lord and telling others about Christ.

Victoria Jackson: And he called up the pastor of Bel-Air Pres and asked him how to be saved, and he said the sinner's prayer on the phone with the pastor from Bel-Air Pres. And I said, "Cindy, for real? That happened for real?"

Jim Daly: That's exciting!

Victoria Jackson: So maybe Norm we'll see him in heaven.

Jim Daly: That's coming up on Monday, July 13, on the next ReFOCUS with Jim Daly.

Aaron Smalley: Sometimes you feel crazy in love with your spouse. Other times your spouse might drive you crazy. And sometimes it's both all at once. Marriage is a wild ride, but it's a beautiful grand adventure as well. So navigate all the ups and downs and in-betweens with Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage, a podcast from Focus on the Family.

I'm Aaron Smalley, and I co-host the podcast with my husband, Dr. Greg Smalley. We sit down with amazing guests to talk about all things marriage, like how do we stay connected or how do we continue growing as individuals or as a couple? Each episode will help you tackle problems you may be facing or just help you make your relationship even sweeter.

Listen to Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage and other podcasts from Focus on the Family at focusonthefamily.com/podcast. That's focusonthefamily.com/podcast.