Proclaiming Justice with Laurie Cardoza Moore

Dexter van Zile: The same techniques that were used to delegitimize Israel were used to delegitimize the United States and Western democracies as well. I started to recognize everything was about trying to diminish Israel's ability to maintain a monopoly on force in its own territory.

That whole notion of undermining the ability of Western democracies to exercise and maintain their monopoly on the legitimate use of force has been going on for years as well.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Welcome to Proclaiming Justice, a podcast from PJTN that focuses the light of truth on vital issues in today's headlines that impact every order. I'm your host, Laurie Cardoza Moore, founder and president of Proclaiming Justice to the Nations, and I'm here to educate, motivate, and activate you to action.

I want to arm you with the truth and the facts you'll need to fight and preserve our constitutional republic and uphold the Judeo-Christian values our nation was founded upon.

Guest (Male): Ladies and gentlemen, we're back with Dexter van Zile, who is a journalist. He is the managing editor of Focus on Western Islamism, and he is working with the Middle East Forum. I know a lot of our supporters are very familiar with the Middle East Forum.

Of course, PJTN relies heavily on a lot of the information that comes out of the Middle East Forum, so a lot of the information you'll see in our programs are directly connected to this organization. Dexter, I've been a big fan of his and followed him for many years, so it's a great honor to have you here at the NRB.

Dexter van Zile: Thank you. It's wonderful to be here.

Guest (Male): Dexter, there are a couple of things we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about this Christian influencer issue, but we're also going to talk about Islamism and the infiltration of Islamists into the West, specifically into the United States of America.

It's not just us. A friend of mine from South Africa sent me a picture of government officials in South Africa who were having their photo taken with a bunch of Islamist Palestinian supporters in South Africa. This is a huge problem. But let's start with Christian influencers because I think the Islamists are influencing those influencers.

Dexter van Zile: I think you might be right. Historically, I spent an awful lot of time writing about pretty marginal people, and maybe I invested too much time into them. I would write about people like E. Michael Jones, who was a Roman Catholic from Notre Dame that went to Iran and visited with the Iranians and went to a conference where they denied the Holocaust. At one point, he said that Iran was the leader of the free world.

Maybe I paid too much attention to him because he didn't really have that much traction, but at the same time, it was horrifying. Then there was another guy named Owen Benjamin. He was one of these failed actors that started a podcast. But now we've got people like Tucker Carlson and Owen Benjamin that are mainstreaming some of the most anti-Semitic ideas that we've seen in years.

Fortunately, there are people on the right that are doing everything that they can to police those folks, to marginalize them, and say, "Look, we cannot have these people involved with mainstream conservative politics." The question is what's going to happen in the upcoming election. Are they going to have growing influence or not?

One of the things that I tell people is when you support people who demonize the Jewish people and demonize the Jewish state, you are lending credence to the same people who have been demonizing the United States and Western civilization for the past few decades. They're using the same techniques. When Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes on, and Fuentes said that he was an admirer of Stalin and Hitler, at a certain point, it's like, come on.

The problem is that a lot of young people have been exposed to misinformation about the Holocaust. I don't want to disparage the concern over the Holocaust, but they're tired of hearing about it and they're worried about their issues. One of the things that I have told people is we need to come up with a new way to promote American concern for issues in the Middle East that transcend the Holocaust.

One of the things that I can say is look at the mistreatment of Christians in the region. To tell people we need to transcend the Holocaust is horrifying to me because I'm one of those people that thinks that it's a signature event in Western civilization. The problem is that the events that took place between 1914 and 1945 opened up a lot of legitimate concern for human rights.

But then what happened was that the left came in and used that concern to create the idea of an open society. The problem is that you cannot maintain a civilization that is always guilt-ridden and is always embracing the notion that its history is uniquely evil. I think that's one of the reasons why Nick Fuentes has gotten so much support on the part of young people.

Young men go to college and they're exposed to college professors who tell them, "You're a white guy, settler-colonialism is evil, everything that your ancestor did is evil." I have ancestors on the Mayflower and I'm saying the English-speaking peoples of the world brought an end to slavery.

Even people who are critical of the United States understand that the anti-slavery movement was in many respects the foundation for a lot of—it was a resurgence of the ideas that had been used to proclaim justice to the nations. That's the interesting thing.

I tell people thank you for assailing Candace Owens and Tucker the way that they have. It's very clear, and we'll see what happens in the years ahead, but I'm confident that we're in much better shape than the left is. The left has an anti-Zionist, anti-Israel problem.

They were the ones who drove Jews into hiding on college campuses after the October 7th massacre. That wasn't Tucker, that wasn't Candace Owens. That was Students for Justice in Palestine. Who funded them? That's really the question that we need to figure out.

Guest (Male): These are all extremely important issues that we have to understand because this connects to the dots of Islamism and the rise of Islamism. But before we go there, one of the things I'm really concerned about is a growing number of Catholics that are new converts to Catholicism. We have Fuentes, we have Candace Owens, and we have this new girl who just shows up on the scene, Carrie Bollen.

We also have people like Kevin Roberts, who is also a newbie to Catholicism. He's the president of the Heritage Foundation and he endorsed and embraced Tucker Carlson and would not remove Tucker Carlson from the Heritage Foundation. This is a huge affront to conservatism and to Western civilization. The Heritage Foundation is like apple pie for our country, baseball and apple pie. How did we get here?

Dexter van Zile: Carrie Prejean Bollen, I saw that. Just so you know, I converted to Catholicism in 2008. I grew up as a member of the United Church of Christ, which was the Congregationalist. I've got ancestors on the Mayflower. There were two groups of people that we had disdain for. One was the Roman Catholic Church and the other was evangelical Protestants, and here I am at NRB.

One of the interesting things that I saw was that one of the reasons why I felt safe going into the Catholic Church was because of Nostra Aetate in 1965. It was a document that said we are no longer going to hold the Jews accountable for the death of Christ on a collective level. To be fair, I think we may need to revisit what Nostra Aetate said about Islam.

I think that the Catholic Church is going to have to start to think seriously about its relationship with the Muslim world because in that document, one of the things that it said is that we need to forget the quarrels of the past. I think that there are issues that we really need to look at because there are fundamental differences between the God that is worshipped in the Catholic Church and in the Christian world and the one that is propounded in Islam.

That's a real difference. People in the Catholic elites will say we worship the same God. I'm not a theologian, but I'm not so sure that's the case. The reason why that's important is because that is going to put pressure on Muslim elites to start to update their faith.

The only way that Muslim leaders are going to update their faith is when their power, property, and prestige is put under challenge. Then, just the same way that the Christian elites' power, property, and prestige was challenged after the Holocaust because their reputations were at stake.

If you look at the catastrophes that have taken place in the Islamic world since 9/11, it's very clear that somebody needs to challenge the Islamic elites and say, "Look, things aren't going so well in the Muslim world. You're going to have to do something about it." Look at the hostility towards Israel. Look at the disaster that it brought about for the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

Look at the disaster that it brought about for the Iranians. The Iranians don't have enough water for their capital city, but they had the money to invest in a war against Israel. They had the money to send to proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah, but they didn't have enough money to protect their own citizens from a drought in their capital city. That's crucial.

Going back to the Catholics, all of these newcomers, and I'm a relative newcomer, they will say, "Christ is King." My response is, "Yeah, and he's a Jew." I'm going to probably get in a lot of trouble about this, but I'm going to say Jesus Christ was present at the creation. That means that there was a Jew present at the creation.

So what does that mean? That means that to a certain extent—and I'm getting a little sarcastic here—the universe itself is a Jewish conspiracy and Christians are in on it. We have some sort of obligation to creation itself and it comes to us through a Jewish savior.

When they start to talk about things like the blood libels, at a certain point it's like, did you just come into the Catholic neighborhood just so that you could engage in this type of anti-Israel propaganda? Because you're not welcome here. It's not my place because I don't wear the collar, I'm not a bishop, I'm not a cardinal, I'm just another guy in the church.

But the one thing that I do know is that if you're a Christian, you think that God did all good things through Jesus Christ, who is a Jew. Anti-Semitism is contrary to the faith. Catholic intellectuals were some of the people who came out and railed against anti-Semitism first.

Have you read any of this stuff? One last thing, and this doesn't have anything to do with evangelical theology. This is a Christian thing. Catholics have the seven sacraments, and you're supposed to give Jesus all of your enmity and hostility in confession. You're not supposed to project it onto the people in your life.

That's a Christian practice. The Eucharist is a demonstration of the peace between Catholics and the rest of the world that comes to us through Christ. I can't say that I've been a very good Catholic because I haven't been at peace with most of humanity for most of my life, but I've tried to make it so that if I'm in intellectual combat, I play by fair rules of the game.

Guest (Male): I'm so glad you're bringing this up because I have been in communication with Bill Donohue with the Catholic League. He's a great guy. I interviewed him years ago on the issue of anti-Semitism and what Catholic beliefs teach.

He said to me at that time that you can't be a good Christian or a good Catholic and be an anti-Semite. He brought out Nostra Aetate, that the Catholic Church dealt with this issue of anti-Semitism and what had happened in the past with the Inquisition and some of the pogroms.

I recently sent him an email asking for a quote because I was doing a piece on Candace Owens, who says, like Carrie Bollen, that Catholics are not Zionists. I asked what he would say about Candace Owens, who was speaking at Catholics for Catholics in Washington, D.C. He sent me back a quote. He said, "I will have nothing to do with her."

Dexter van Zile: The Catholic Church acknowledged Israel's legitimacy in the 1990s. So if you believe that what comes out of the Vatican is decisive for your response to the world, then you have to affirm Israel's right to exist. For them to say—and I think in years past one of the popes, it might have been Pope Francis, said that if you're an anti-Zionist, you're contradicting the faith.

Look at the spiritual aura of a lot of these anti-Zionists. People are going to say, "Dexter, you're the last guy in the world that should be talking about spiritual aura." But I bring a certain joy to my milieu, so to speak.

A lot of these people are very unhappy people who can't tell us that Christ's presence in their life has made them so much happier than they were before. If the central element of your faith is to be hostile towards Israel, what gospels are you reading? Jerry McDermott says that if you look closely at the gospels, you will see support for Zionism as a movement and for the recreation of the Jewish state.

Jesus was not an anti-Zionist. He may have been very critical of his fellow Jews, but he was not an anti-Zionist. He may have been thinking more about other issues than that, but the idea that somehow he would want the Jewish state eradicated—

Guest (Male): The disciples, I think it's in the book of Luke, when Jesus was getting ready to be carried up to heaven, they asked him one question. They believed he was the Messiah, but the one question they had for him was, "Will you at this time restore the kingdom back to Israel?" What is a kingdom? It's a nation with laws and culture.

So they were concerned about whether Jesus was going to replace Zion and whether Zion was coming back because God said he was going to write his name on Mount Zion, which he has. It's hard to listen to these people spew their hatred and profess to be Christians, whether Protestant or Catholic, while thinking they are legitimate in their statements. You're right, I see the same thing in these people. There's no love and there's no joy in their lives.

We need to continue this conversation because I've got some ideas about what I think we need to do. Our goal is to try to reach Christians to educate them to stand against the rise of anti-Semitism. We saw it with Martin Luther, and it got passed on through the Protestant religion. Hitler quoted from Martin Luther's writings to legitimize the slaughter of the Jews.

We've got issues. Truth is the best way to confront and combat misinformation. But there's an interesting twist now because some of these very same people that we talked about, like Tucker—I don't know about Candace—it appears that Qatar seems to be spreading the wealth around and buying influence. Look at what happened with Carrie Bollen. She came out of nowhere. Someone used Grok to search back how many times she had used the word Zionism. She just started to use the term. I suspect maybe somebody's coaching her.

Dexter van Zile: This is one of the things that we see. I don't think that we can assert that there are any direct connections between Qatar and some of the people who are promoting this. I do know that one of Tucker's investors was tied to Qatar or has a good relationship with an Islamist. I don't know all the details there because these people are not the folks that I am paying attention to.

But it's very clear. The Middle East Forum has done a huge amount of research about Qatari influence on higher education. They have poured billions of dollars into Western democracies. Anti-Zionism has been a unifying political agenda in Arab nations.

One of the things that we saw historically was that there were times when they would dial back on it because they needed American and Israeli help to deal with Iran. The problem is now Iran's ability to terrorize the Middle East has diminished substantially. So the people who were relying on the United States and said, "Okay, we're going to dial back the anti-Semitism," they looked at Israel as a counterpoint to Iran.

Well, now that Iran's ability to influence events in the region has gone down, they don't need Israel as much as they used to, so they can go back to beating up on Israel. We're seeing greater expressions of hostility towards Israel on the part of the Saudi leaders.

The people that I talk to and listen to indicate that that may or may not be their ideology, but they think it's in their interest and that they can get away with it now. One thing we always have to understand is that in the realm of politics, sometimes anti-Semitism is just a political instrument. It's something that you can use to get your base going and to whip up support.

Guest (Male): No, this is good. Keep going.

Dexter van Zile: The same techniques that were used to delegitimize Israel from '67 on were used to delegitimize the United States and Western democracies as well. That's one of the reasons why I shifted away from confronting anti-Israel propaganda in the media and in the churches to defending the West in general.

I started to recognize everything was about trying to diminish Israel's ability to maintain a monopoly on force in its own territory. It couldn't defend itself. That was the goal. Anytime that it used a weapon to defend itself, it was engaged in settler-colonialism and it was engaged in genocide.

That whole notion of undermining the ability of Western democracies to exercise and maintain their monopoly on the legitimate use of force has been going on for years as well. European countries can't defend their borders against immigration without offending people on the left.

Western democracies couldn't enforce the law against immigrant populations—the rape gang crisis in England. And why? Because they didn't want to be accused of racism. This has been an issue for decades, and it came to fruition in part during the BLM protests. The police retreated from many neighborhoods, and did the lives of African Americans improve as a result of that? No.

They came up in Ferguson with the narrative of "Hands up, don't shoot." That was a complete lie. But that narrative was used to demonize police officers throughout the country, just the same way that the Mohammed al-Durrah story from 2001 where Israel was falsely accused of killing a young Palestinian boy in the Gaza Strip.

That image was used to incite the Intifada. After 9/11, the Intifada spread throughout the world. The reason why the left has had such a pernicious impact on human rights is because the Islamist ideology of Muslim male supremacism is the human rights issue of the 21st century. There's no question about it.

The problem is that if you try to raise that issue, you are an Islamophobe. The folks on the left who should be worried about the mistreatment of women in Muslim-majority environments and the impact of Islamism on non-Muslim minorities in the Middle East should be concerned. The safety of women and Jews in Europe has collapsed.

You would think that the left would be concerned about that, but because they look at the perpetrators as victims of Western colonialism, they will let it go. But if you want to talk to me about what is the biggest colonialist movement around, I would say Islamism is the biggest settler-colonialist movement around. If you look at what's going on in Europe, we see settler-colonialism in those countries.

It's from Muslim-majority environments. They come in and change the mores and the rules associated with how women are treated, and they bully Western elites into not enforcing the law.

Guest (Male): Sharia Law. Look at how they're trying to push Sharia Law into our country.

Dexter van Zile: One of the things that we have to understand about Sharia is that for some people, it's a personal thing. The problem is that when you try to ban Sharia, there are going to be some Muslims on your side that are going to say, "Look, Sharia is for me."

But for sure, if you're an adherent of Al-Qaeda, you don't get in the country. If you're a supporter of Hamas, you don't get in the country. If you support Jamaat-e-Islami or Lashkar-e-Taiba, you don't get let into the country. You're not allowed in, and if you are on a visa and it's demonstrably provable that you support those institutions or those movements, you're out. That's my attitude. Goodbye. Auf Wiedersehen.

Guest (Male): We have social media to be able to check these people out. It's not like we can't vet these people when they want to come into our country. How in the world do we open up the doors? I mean, we know why Biden did it. But Biden and Obama also were credited for removing immigrants from our country, but they allowed Islamists in.

I think we had one of them located right here in Nashville. The protege of the Blind Sheikh was the Imam at the 12th Avenue Mosque here in Nashville, Tennessee. He was whisked out of this city the day after 9/11 happened. No planes were leaving except the Saudi plane, and they took him out. So he must have been a Saudi Muslim. They took him out of the country and who knows where he is.

Dexter van Zile: I don't know anything about that, but prior to the 1980s, a lot of the mosques here in the United States were controlled and attended by people who were very glad to be here. They had no interest whatsoever in bringing Sharia Law or an Islamist revolution to the United States.

With the Saudi money, slowly but surely—and this happened in the Boston area—people took over the mosques and they replaced the moderate Imams and the moderate boards of directors with people that were much more anti-Western and aggressive against the United States.

I think one of the reasons why the Saudis did that was to put a lid on Islamism in their own territory. Hassan al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb basically thought that Arab and Muslim leaders really weren't Muslim when they founded the Islamist movement. Their first targets weren't Western democracies but leaders of Muslim-majority countries because they were supporters of Jahiliyyah. Once those leaders understood what was happening, they said, "Go to the West. Leave us alone."

The thing that I fear the most is that there's going to be a significant population of Muslims who historically in the United States did not support Islamism, but now—I went to Dearborn a while back and went to a mosque and sat down with one of the members. I asked how many people attend the mosque, and he said 400 to 500 people. There was a fair number of people there on a weeknight.

I asked him how many of these people support Hezbollah, and he said 90%. Hezbollah is an institution that has murdered Americans. It killed American soldiers in Beirut. A precursor to that organization kidnapped Benjamin Weir, who was a prominent Presbyterian back in the day. He was in their custody for a year. He came back and became elected moderator of the Presbyterian Church USA.

He helped initiate the BDS campaign and anti-Zionist propaganda in that church. That's why the Presbyterians became anti-Israel. People asked him about it and he said he didn't like Hezbollah either, but his activism was all directed at Israel. He didn't say anything about Islamism.

The left regards the Islamist as an extension of this anti-colonialist agenda. These people are not religious supremacists; they're readers of Frantz Fanon and all of the anti-colonialist stuff. Qutb's writings were read by some of the Islamists, and Frantz Fanon legitimized violence against the West.

Guest (Male): We've got our work cut out for us. How do we win? What do we do?

Dexter van Zile: I think we have to put pressure on Islamist leaders and say that you can no longer broadcast if you support Hamas, Hezbollah, or Al-Qaeda. If you're not a U.S. citizen, we're going to take your visa away and you're going back home. I think that's really what the agenda should be.

Guest (Male): So do we have Al-Jazeera operating here in the United States?

Dexter van Zile: People should look at our website. I think they can broadcast anywhere they want because of the internet. But the Middle East Forum recently did a forum about Saudi Arabia's pivot against Israel in the United States on February 13th. You can go to our YouTube channel.

One of the messages that I came away with is that the United States needs to put pressure on Qatar and Saudi Arabia. If you want to do business with us, you've got to tell Al-Jazeera to settle down and stop promoting hostility towards the United States and Israel.

There's a fight in the Middle East. The modernists in the United Arab Emirates want the Abraham Accords. Why do they want the Abraham Accords? Because they no longer want to use anti-Semitism and hostility towards Israel as a unifying political agenda for their country. They worked with the Israelis.

The Israelis who died on October 7th and the foreign workers were martyrs to the cause of Arab modernity. Hamas, Iran, and Hezbollah want to keep the Middle East in the ideological backwaters. In Dearborn, we have people here in the United States that are promoting that agenda.

This is Arabcon. This was a conference that took place in Dearborn in September, organized by the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. On the face of it, that is a legitimate thing. You have every right to advocate for civil rights. But then if you go to the exhibition hall, this is the type of stuff that is on sale.

Outside of Arabcon, there was a truck from an American convert to Islam who hates Israel and accused Israel of genocide. This was one of the T-shirts that you could buy at the conference. And here was another hat that was for sale at Arabcon, totally removing Israel. This is horrible stuff.

I bought it so people would know it exists. I found this hat at the Arab American Museum in Dearborn. There was anti-Israel propaganda there. It's not just the Islamist or the Muslim community in Dearborn, but the Arab community. I know that they're all law-abiding people and they have the right to the First Amendment, but—

Guest (Male): But not to incite violence.

Dexter van Zile: There are anti-Israel rallies or anti-American rallies where people from that community have chanted "Death to America" and "Death to Israel." They do that in front of the Henry Ford Museum. Henry Ford was Hitler's buddy.

The Ford Motor Company did everything they could to distance themselves from Henry Ford's anti-Semitism. To their credit, they really did. But now all of a sudden in Dearborn and Detroit, you see enormous hostility towards Israel and Jews. I talk to people in the Jewish community and ask if they would go to Dearborn, and they say, "Are you kidding?" They don't feel safe.

The people in Dearborn who are most effective and most understanding of the issue are evangelical Protestants who operated in Muslim-majority countries. They understood how Christians are being mistreated and they want to respond and deal with this issue in as irenic and forgiving a way as possible.

But they will stand up. Ted Barham, a pastor, challenged the mayor because they named a street corner in Wayne County after a local guy by the name of Osama Siblani. He publishes Arab American News, which promotes all sorts of hostility towards Israel and Zionists. At one point he was at a rally and he said that he wanted to send Netanyahu back to Poland.

Ted Barham went after the mayor about this. The mayor overreacted and said, "You're an Islamophobe and when you leave the city, I'm going to host a parade." Ted Barham, to his credit, was very Christ-like. He's not one of these people that responds with venom.

What he did was lanced the boil for everyone to see. He showed people what's really going on. The mayor looks like a good leftist. Most of the city's well-run, unlike Mamdani's New York, but when he got pushed, he got mad. He tried to put Ted Barham in a position of dhimmi.

This is the United States and you're an elected official, so we have every right to confront our elected officials about the decisions they make. He was one of the people that held Osama Siblani up as a leader. We've got similar problems in Texas, Minneapolis, even Florida, and we're seeing it here in Tennessee.

Guest (Male): Back in 2010 when we exposed the mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, they wanted to build a 52,000-square-foot facility. We did research on the board members; two of them were tied to Hamas. One of them was actively recruiting Muslims to kill Jews on his social media.

The people in the community filed the lawsuit and we helped them find the attorneys. Although they didn't get to build the 52,000-square-foot facility, they did build a 10,000-square-foot facility. The judge ruled in our favor when he heard the testimony because we brought in John Guandolo and other experts to testify.

The judge gave his ruling and told the mosque they were going to have to go through the whole process again because the people in the community needed to be properly noted. You didn't do that. A higher court judge came in and slapped it down.

Dexter van Zile: Ultimately, trying to go after Islamism with land-use lawsuits isn't going to work because the First Amendment gives people a right to gather. The real question is how we put pressure on Muslim elites to square the circle.

On one hand, you propound a religion where the Quran tells us that you believe in the existence of a compassionate, loving, and merciful God. And yet, there are other passages in the Quran, like 9:29, that say slay the disbelievers. Until mainstream Islamic leaders say enough is enough, it has to change.

Zudi Jasser has been trying to reform Islam in the West for years. It has to happen in places like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. At a certain point, the elites in those countries are going to have to say that we are at a dead end. The United Nations issued reports on Arab underdevelopment. They said the Arab economy is not very productive. If it weren't for the oil, what would you be producing?

Dhimmitude is one of the things that I've been thinking about because of our new program at the Middle East Forum that's supported in part by Bat Ye'or. When she gave me an autographed copy of one of her books back in 2005, it was one of the best days of my life. Dhimmitude forces non-Muslims to be productive for the Muslim community and pay a jizya. I think we have neo-dhimmitude.

Sociologists and historians have been talking about the social death caused by slavery for years. How about we talk about the social death caused by Islam? That's really the issue because you deprive people of their agency. Slavery did that. You deprive people of their ability to trust their fellow humans. That's what dhimmitude does. We need to go to the Muslim elites and say, "This is what your religion has been used to legitimize. What are you going to do about it?"

Guest (Male): Is Trump capable of doing this? We're taking airplanes and—

Dexter van Zile: I think we need an intellectual class capable of doing it. The last thing I want to do is predict what's going to happen with Iran or in the region. I'll just tell you what I think. I think that we may see some form of regime change in Iran, but that doesn't mean that we're out of the woods.

We don't know what's coming next. Is there an elite class in Iran that can bring the country out of Islamism and into modernity? I hope so.

Guest (Male): I have a friend in Bahrain, and they're a very peaceful people like the UAE. I appreciate you. Before we sign off, can you please tell our audience how they can learn more and follow you?

Dexter van Zile: You can go to the Middle East Forum's website, meforum.org, and also the Focus on Western Islamism section. If you really want insight into all of the important difficult religious issues, go to danielpipes.org.

Guest (Male): Dexter, thank you so much for being here with us. God bless you. Enjoy the rest of the convention. Pray for me, folks. Pray for all of us and the West. Amen.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Thank you again for joining me on this edition of Proclaiming Justice. Please share this podcast with your family and friends. For more information about how you can get involved, please visit our website at pjtn.org. As a PJTN Watchman, you can help us keep up the fight to preserve our freedom for our children and their children for such a time as this.