Proclaiming Justice with Laurie Cardoza Moore

Laurie Cardoza Moore: I'm Laurie Cardoza Moore and this is Proclaiming Justice Podcast.

Delores Lowe: Welcome to the special edition of A Voice to the Gentile Church. I am Delores Lowe. Across from me is Pastor Roger Diaz, and our special guest today is Ms. Laurie Cardoza Moore, who has a really interesting project on the Bnei Anusim, a story that should be of particular interest to the church because it speaks to our identity. Laurie, welcome.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Amen. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Pastor Diaz. It's great to be back.

Pastor Roger Diaz: Absolutely. Always great to have you.

Delores Lowe: For our listeners who don't know what the term Bnei Anusim is, could you define it for us?

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Absolutely. Bnei Anusim, also known as the forced ones, the conversos, the marranos. It's an interesting story because for those of us who have been supportive of Israel, we always think of the Jewish people as the Jewish people, like the Ashkenazi Jews. We don't really think of the Sephardi Jews, those who are descendants from the Iberian Peninsula, those who are from Spain, from Portugal.

I'm on a personal journey to find and restore back the lost Jews, the remaining lost Jews of the house of Israel. As we know in the text of scripture, the Sephardi, the other half of Judah, is the Sephardic Jews. I found out on my first trip actually to Israel, and this is why this story is so important to me. Before we talk about the film, I want to just share a little bit of how I got to where I am.

I was raised in a Portuguese Catholic home. I had a great relationship with my grandparents, and I remember as a little girl, all of four or five years of age, my grandmother was admiring a diamond ring that my grandfather had just given to her for their anniversary. Being the little girl that I was and being Nana's girl, being the first granddaughter, I looked at the ring and I said to her, "Nana, that ring looks fit for a princess." She said to me something I've never forgotten. She said, "You know, we have a Jewish princess in our family." I didn't really respond to it after that. I just listened to that and I thought, "That's interesting."

It wasn't until years later, my first trip to Israel, when my whole family history started to unfold before me. I was invited to participate in a women's prayer group at our church and there was a woman that was there talking about a resolution that was just passed in the state of Alabama to support the state of Israel. I said to the gal I'd like to have her contact information. I want to contact her and run that resolution in the state of Tennessee, which I did. After we got it passed, the consul general to Israel came to Nashville to meet with me to thank me for the work that I had done in passing that resolution. I remember him asking me, "So when was the last time you were in Israel?" I said, "I've never been." He said, "You've never been? You have to go."

He said to the executive director of the federation, "When's the next trip? When are you going?" He said, "We're going in November. She's going to be on that trip." Low and behold, of course I was there. I was able to see go to Israel and see Israel through Jewish eyes. When we disembarked the airplane and stood on the tarmac—it was before they had the terminal walkways from the plane to the terminal—I was standing on the concrete and I looked around. I saw palm trees in the distance and I was born in Fort Lauderdale, so South Florida. I looked around and I thought, "I feel like I know this place."

We started to go on our tour. We went to various places, to the Tel Aviv University. They had a museum there, and in that museum, you go through and before you even go through the museum, you have to write a list of surnames of your family. I'm writing down the names of all my cousins that I can remember and handed it off to the gentleman. We went with the docent through the museum, through the exhibit. When we came out, everybody got their hand out about the last names. The information they gave us was is the last name Jewish, where does it come from, how far back do we have Jewish ancestry using that name?

He handed me my sheet and I looked at the sheet and every one of my names, my family names, were listed. I said to the group, I was shocked, I said, "Look you guys, all my names are Jewish on my mom's side and my dad's side." Somebody said to me, "Cardoza?" and I said, "What did I know of Cardoza? I was raised Catholic, I didn't know any different." That was the first day of my first trip. It was just shocking.

I continued to go on the trip and then Shabbat, we were having Shabbat in Jerusalem with a family from Nashville that had made Aliyah. When we went to take a bite of the challah bread during the Hamotzi, I took a bite and I turned to the gal that was next to me because she was learning about this whole scenario, this whole journey that I was on and here I am. I said to her, "We didn't call this challah. We called this sweet bread." That's what I grew up on.

So of course I call my dad and I told my dad, "Dad, we're not Catholics, we're Jewish." He said, "What are you talking about?" I started to give him information and everything that I was finding and learning I was sharing with him. He said to my aunt, my great aunt, she was the last one of the siblings living, and he said to her, "Laurie keeps telling me that we're Jewish. Is she telling the truth?" My great aunt said, "Yes." My dad said, "Why didn't anybody tell us growing up?" She said, "Kenny, we didn't know. It was on my great-grandfather's deathbed. He pulled his family together, he brought them home, they came together, and he said, 'I cannot leave this earth without telling you that we're Jewish.'"

The agreement, we have surmised, was that the patriarchs, whoever was the last one of the matriarch or patriarch of the parents that were living before they died, they were to tell the children that they were Jewish so they would hand it down. When my father came back and told me I spoke with your Aunt Angie and she confirmed it, she had told him that they were older, they were in their 50s and 60s, the kids were, so the grandkids were coming up in their 30s. He wouldn't tell them beforehand. He wanted to wait until that moment to let them know before he left this earth that we are Jews. That was just a shock to me because being a student also of the Bible and studying the word and God's plan for Israel and His love for Israel and the Jewish people, here I'm doing all these running resolutions in 35 states across the country to stand with Israel and the Jewish people trying to encourage Christians to speak on behalf of Israel and their state legislature and here I am defending Israel.

This started me on the journey to ask the question, "Who am I?" Being understanding and starting to do the research about the Bnei Anusim, I told my husband we have to tell this story. If this was my story and it was kept from me, and I want the audience to really think about this, because for 500 years our ancestors of the Bnei Anusim were forced into silence. We had to hide our identity and even in modern times in the 70s when my great-grandfather was on his deathbed, he and my great-grandmother did not want to tell their kids that they were Jewish because they were still afraid. They were still fearful and that fear has permeated generations. They still carry it.

There was a psychiatrist that was doing research on people who have these fear complexes and have emotional trauma that's associated. They tied the trauma of like Holocaust children of Holocaust, they tied that trauma to the next generation. I thought to myself, "Lord, if this is if I'm just one story, how many more out there? How many millions?" In fact, the Israeli government believe there's over 500 million Bnei Anusim out there who have no idea of their identity.

Pastor Roger Diaz: 55 to 85 million in Brazil only.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: It's just unbelievable to think of. So we have Spain and Portugal, we have Argentina, we have Brazil, Mexico, the southwest of the United States.

Pastor Roger Diaz: The northeast of the United States also. That's where the Portuguese are in Maine and Boston.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Yeah. My family when my great-grandparents came over from the Azores, they were on the island. When they came over they came to Rhode Island and so that's where they planted their seed and we had no idea about this. Some of the stories, and some of you as you're listening to this are especially if you're of Hispanic Latino descent, you're probably remembering things or thinking about things that maybe your grandparents did or your parents did.

One of the things that they would do and this was a tradition handed down is they would light the candles in secret. They would do it behind closed doors or in their family basements so that nobody could see. If you were to ask the person why did you do that, they just said it was what my grandmother, it's what my mom did, it's what my grandmother did. It was a tradition that was handed down. Even the Hebrew language, there were Hebrew words. It's funny because my grandparents and their siblings would not talk to the children if they were talking about something that they didn't want the kids to know or understand. They would speak in Portuguese. They wouldn't teach us the language, so we never knew what they were saying but that's how they communicated to again protect the ears. All these traditions that were handed down were done because of fear.

Pastor Roger Diaz: Absolutely. Even the eating of what you call sweet bread, challah. In the Latin American community, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban, sometimes that bread is called Mallorca. It's called Mallorca because it was baked and used a lot in Mallorca. Mallorca had an incredible converso community for 200 years. They were really strong in Mallorca and so that's why that bread, challah, in the Spanish community is called Mallorca.

You have so many pointers, so many hints. My mom used to cover up mirrors when someone passed and why did she do it? Everyone did it in the family and there was all these connections and so on. This is a very exciting time and Delores has some questions but I want you to perhaps emphasize on what you see as a divine connection. What is God doing? Where is this going from the standpoint of Bible prophecy?

Delores Lowe: I was just going to say, I went through that, right? My grandmother did what in my mind was weird stuff that you didn't understand. Then this popular thing happened which was 23andMe. I had the test done and there it popped up and I went, "Oh, there it is." I'm wondering how many people particularly across America went and had their DNA test done and all of a sudden they're like, "Oh," and they don't know what to do afterwards. Maybe I'm deviating us, but is there any advice that you have for people who all of a sudden find out and they're like, "What do I do?"

Laurie Cardoza Moore: My advice to anyone just finding out or just listening to this podcast right now, I would strongly urge you to start asking questions of the oldest members of your family. Unfortunately when I figured all of this out, my father, well my father had passed, but low and behold thank God my great aunt was the oldest member of the family, of my dad's family living.

I also started by looking at the surnames and comparing the surnames and started researching the surnames like the Borges and of course the Cardozas, the Costas, De Costas. An interesting story is I have a guy that I've hired to help me do the research, to do the tracing, and he said one of the things that he saw that is evident to Jews is he said there are five similar last names that go from generation to generation in your line. He said what happened was the conversos or the Bnei Anusim, but marranos which was a derogatory name that they would use for them, but they would marry their children into those other families. That way they knew that their children were married—it gives me chills.

Pastor Roger Diaz: And the code word in our family was that person is from a good family. That's what they used to say, but not good in terms of wealth, but good in terms of DNA connection.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: That's exactly correct. Here we are living in our generation and we're learning, we're looking up these Sephardic surnames, we're studying where did they come from. One of the gentlemen that we're going to be filming and interviewing with in Portugal did a search on my on the Cardoza just the Cardoza family and was able to give to me details of what happened to the Cardozas after the Inquisition. How they were even to the point of how they were tortured, how they were treated. I mean all of these little examples, they were forced to either convert or die. This was done in the name of Christianity, in the name of Christ and we unfortunately hear those same narratives, those same blood libels being used against our Jewish brethren even today.

I really believe that because of the forced conversions which led to executions, it led to burning Jews at the stake if they were accused, if the authorities or the religious leaders believed that they were doing something that was judaizing someone or they were practicing their Judaism, they became a target of these attacks. When we look back in history to see what was done in the name of Christ, there's an amazing story of the Jews that lost their children and these children were two years of age up to 14 and they were taken to São Tomé. 10,000 of them and they were forced, they were used as forced labor to try to build this city that they were wanting to build and it was horrible what was done. The parents had their children ripped out of their arms and put on a ship and took their children away and they never saw their kids again. This again was done all in the name of the Catholic Church, in the name of Christ because they were purging the religion, they were getting rid of, they saw themselves as getting rid of the heretics.

Lives have been destroyed for refusing or betraying their faith and that's what a lot of the torture was why a lot of the torture was conducted. They would put people on a what they called a rack and they would tie up their hands and their legs and they would turn this wheel that would rip their bodies apart, dislocate their joints. Children would be put onto racks and they would literally pour hot oil down their throats for others to see. That was the whole point of it, it was a shock treatment. If there was a suspected reversion in a community where the marranos were heavy and there was someone who was suspected of reverting back to Judaism, the Inquisition would come in, the Jesuits would show up and they begin the whole process.

The idea is to single out the main culprits and bring them to trial but also bring the family members into trial as well and get them to confess things that were not always true. Children under that type of pressure will confess things and as long as the Jesuits had their confession they could move forward with the trials. So many people who were innocent and they were all innocent, so many people who were not guilty based on charges brought to them against them were burnt to the stake in some cases. The auto-da-fé in Mexico City and in Peru, those were the only two places where they conducted the auto-da-fé, there were endless people that went through the trials and many of them were burnt to the stake. It was a horrible period in American history and that's what it is, American history. There was a time and you probably notice there was a time in American history where if a person was found strangled like on the side of the road or in their homes, it was well known that that person was a Jew, a marrano, because the Jesuits that's what they did. They practiced strangulation as a means to not bring someone to trial and go through that trouble, just strangle them right there on the spot.

I read that a long time ago that it was just a norm in that period that if someone was just suddenly found strangled that he was a Jew, he or she was a Jew. It was a terrible time. Your ancestors, our ancestors went through roughly 450 years of real trial. Tell us about the movie, the documentary. I'm really excited to hear about that documentary.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Why is this documentary relevant? Why now? We all know about the Holocaust, we barely know about the Inquisition, and we barely know about the pogroms. In watching what is unfolding before our eyes and what troubles me, again this is happening in the name of Christianity. We have Tucker Carlson, we have Candace Owens, we have Nick Fuentes. We have even Steve Bannon has jumped on the bandwagon. People that we used to respect and trust the information that they provided are now using these blood libels like Candace Owens against the Jews once again.

If we don't study history, then we are doomed to repeat it. This documentary, you talked about how you were drawn to 23andMe. These DNA ancestry.com websites are now one of the second most frequently visited sites on the website. There is an interest in finding out our identity. People seem to be enamored with that where before, before we had the technology, we wanted to know about our family but we didn't have access to all the information, the libraries. If you were wanting to find out about your family you would have to go back to where did they come from when they came over to Ellis Island, where did they go next. You'd basically have to do that whole study to try to locate and connect with your ancestors but now it's right there at our fingertips on the computer and many, many are starting to find out about their own Jewish ancestry.

I'm a Christian, 100% Christian, Christ is my savior, my king, my lord, my master, everything, but there is a certain comfort in knowing that somewhere in my background there was a Jewish woman who kneeled and prayed for me. Our grandmothers, it puts a whole different meaning to the history of our family and the relationships generation dor l'dor. People are starting to reconnect with their faith in especially people are starting to come back to Judaism and reconnect with their faith with the identity of their families. It's very comforting knowing that because you know that if you have a Jewish history, there was prayer in your background. Somewhere there was prayer to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I agree with you, it was fear that caused these people or pressure to convert. Now we have people who are starting to find out their identity at the same time that we're seeing this rise in antisemitism. Going back to what Pastor Roger was saying about divine involvement, what would you recommend to these people, put the fear aside, why is it worth for them to come out and say, "I am this"?

The reason why it's so important is because Hashem, it's important to Hashem. This is His time and He has chosen for this time to redeem, restore the kingdom back to Israel. How can the kingdom of Israel be restored unless the inhabitants or the descendants, the seed that was in Abraham's loins, how are these people going to come back unless somebody tells them or helps them connect, bridge that gap?

But you know Laurie and Delores, you've heard me talk about this many times. This subject is one that has consumed me for 25-30 years. My father told me about it and he was about to die and he knew it. I was scheduled to come live here in about three or four months and he called me out. Calling me out, he wanted me to know that this is not just me telling you something. He told me about the family's history. He said it's on both sides of the family. He said on your mother's side of the family, they were in denial, which I've seen the argument or the discussions about the Jewish history and much of the Portuguese in Trinidad, the descendants of the Portuguese in Trinidad where I'm from, didn't want to hear about this because it was a burden. It was a burdensome thing and we were considered foolish for looking into it, but my father was one of these people. His mother told him and it's just came down the line that way.

He told me about that in 1986 and it was in '91 that I became born again and I had a full-fledged born-again Pentecostal experience. I've been walking in that now since '91, but there's always been this need to get the history, the historicity of the family. Not just the family, how is God working in the context of this whole thing, what is God doing, what is the direction, how does it all connect. It's been my passion, my interest. God has shown me many things concerning what He's doing and I really should write. Delores is going to help me eventually. I've got three books to write, but I just gotta sit and make it happen and stop finding busy work. Now's the time.

This topic is so consumed so much information, I can just sit here and go on and on and on. We're going to talk about your documentary particularly what your needs are, what are you seeing your initiatives. You know the Bible is like a treasure trove of hidden revelations that's pointing to what's happening today. Ezekiel chapter 37 was always sort of an enigma even with the modern ingathering of Israel, the Zionist process, to say that an entire valley of dust turns to a people, dust, dirt from the dirt they become a mighty people Israel.

To say that this is what we've seen with the whole Zionist process isn't accurate, cannot be accurate, because the chapter before that in 36 of Ezekiel talks about the ingathering. The people will come back, the land will be ready for the people. That process is in 36. Then after 36, you have this incredible thing, it's like a miracle and from the dust comes the people of Israel. When I consider that in light of the 500 million potential, that's half a billion people that has strong DNA markers connecting them to ancient Israel. Not just Judah, all of the tribes. It's clear that God's preparing to do something that will stun not just the nations but even Israel. That their people would arise from nowhere, from the dust, from the dirt, from Brazil, from even in places like the Philippines, India. You have so many Indians with names like DeSousa and DeCastro, Portuguese names, and they connect back to the Bnei Anusim, Vasco da Gama that whole movement. You can't help but see the hand of God working in this.

I just love what the prophet Jeremiah, such a simple verse, and it's a declaration to the coastlands, to the nations. Jeremiah was given the charge to declare this. He says in chapter 31 verse 10, "Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare in the coastlands far off and say, He who scattered Israel will gather him and keep him like a shepherd keeps his flock." So that's all-inclusive of Israel, Judah, Benjamin, the entire house of Israel is going to be restored. That points to Ezekiel chapter 37. It's happening right now and how do we engage? How can we put our hands to the plow? What can we do? Not just people like us who identify so clearly and connect so clearly to the Bnei Anusim. I'm a Christian. I'm not looking to make conversion. I know my identity is not with my ancestors, but how can I and Christians in general engage to get involved with what God is doing? See that's the big question here.

I had an Israeli woman, very, very passionate Israeli woman, sit me down at her Shabbat table and she poured me some tea and she gave me some snacks. Then she looked me in the eye and she said, "Now Roger, something's coming. Now Roger, you came from the—they didn't use the word Bnei Anusim much—but you came from the conversos." She said, "You look Jewish, you sound Jewish, you love Israel, you're more Zionist than most Jews. You just need to convert," real strong you know. I said, "What am I going to do with this?" So I called her name, I said, "Well here is what I see. Hashem has revived in me the passion and my love for Israel, it's real. But I cannot convert. I cannot convert and make Aliyah because my work is among Christians to point to them the reality of what has happened and the prospect, the real prospect that God is doing something with the descendants of the Bnei Anusim and all of Israel. My job is to point that out to Christians. If I were to convert and make Aliyah, I would lose my opportunity. So that's where my work is." She looked at me and she said, "Nakhon." She understood me.

That's my passion. I want to point Christians to the land of Israel, but I also want to say to them, "Here is what we've done," and we meaning the past, we Christians. "Here is what we've done to the people of Israel." It's not just 500 years, it goes all the way back to Nicaea. So how do we engage our listeners, our Christian listeners, even the ones who are not genetically connected, who has this passion, who does not have this passion, to get involved in this? What do we do? What do we say to our Episcopalian friends?

Laurie Cardoza Moore: If we don't tell this story now, who will? We have the information, we have the research, we've done it all. Antisemitism is rising and unfortunately it's rising within the Christian church. The truth about Israel and God's love for the Jewish people is being distorted from pulpits and from lay people. The identity of Israel, we even see people now questioning and saying the Jews today are not the Jews of the Bible.

This is the dilemma. Our vision, and I want to share this with our audience because this is important, this is a way for people to get involved. Not just through prayer, that's a given. This is a miraculous time that we are on this earth. God didn't put us here, each one of us in our respective missions, even you watching this podcast. God didn't just randomly put you here on this earth. He put you here today for this purpose. The very fact that you're even tuning in and listening to this podcast is divinely was divinely appointed by God from the foundations of the earth because He knew where you would be at this point, this day, this point in time.

I think like I said prayer, but I think the other aspect is there are people that will be involved and help in various ways. There'll be people that will help finance this film project because this is huge. There are people that would volunteer to help see this project, people that would have the ability to invite us to come into their homes or into their church and share this information about this. This is the restoration of the kingdom. This is what God is doing right now. Do we want to be part of what He is doing?

The global filming is going to take place across three continents. Expert interviews with historians and descendants and faith leaders are going to be part of the people that you're going to see in this film. We are actually doing some historical reconstructions in our film to make it more real to the people who are watching it and also help people with their personal identity journeys. Because once people see this film, they're going to respond. Inside of them, the Spirit of God living in you is going to come to life and you are going to know that you were put here for such a time as this.

With America with the onslaught of all of the Hispanic Latino people that have come into our country, those who have lived here all of these years, even in the American Southwest where even today in the American Southwest people won't talk about their Jewish ancestry. They're afraid. This documentary is going to help to pull people out. Once we finish this film, this film is going to be broadcast to over 2 billion viewers around the world through our national religious broadcaster partner programs. Not only that, we're going to do a premiere in Jerusalem. We'll make an announcement of when that premiere is going to take place and then of course we'll do a US release and a Fathom event with maybe two-three nights in theaters across this country to draw people in, to wake up the spirit, the soul of that converso who maybe had an affinity for the Jewish people and just didn't really understand it. Maybe you look at the news and watch what's happening to our brother Judah and it disturbs you and you want to get involved. We would love to hear from you and if any of you also, I want to encourage you to go to info@pjtn.org. Some of you who are watching this may have a story that we want to share in this film. We're going to be interviewing people just like us gathered at this table to hear their stories, to hear their testimonies so that we can share that message with others. To let the Spirit of God, to let the Holy Spirit work on those people's hearts to say, "I think it's time for me to start looking for my my family, trace my family, trace our identity as well." Let's watch the trailer and we'll be right back.

Documentary Trailer Voiceover: In the shadows of history, a story has been hidden. A tale of a people who face persecution, forced conversions, and exile. They were the Jews of Sepharad, once a thriving community torn apart by the edicts of the Inquisition. Families scattered, traditions kept in secret, identities hidden under the threat of death.

The purpose of the Inquisition was to erase them, but their legacy lived on. They became the conversos, the hidden Jews, and their stories have been passed down through generations. Centuries later, descendants search for the truth, rediscovering their heritage, uncovering the secrets that were buried deep. There are millions of people that have no idea they have Jewish ancestry. When I found out about my ancestors, everything changed. It was like a piece of me that was missing finally found.

For the prophets foretold an ingathering. "Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations." Ezekiel spoke of the dry bones coming to life and Isaiah saw the exiles returning from the ends of the earth. This is their story and it's time to bring it to light. Join us on a journey through time as we uncover the hidden history of The Lost Jews of the Inquisition.

Pastor Roger Diaz: I made for myself a personal commitment to do what I can to support you and to support this mission, this initiative. I'm going to be speaking to as many people as I can that has the means and the wherewithal to financially support it. I have to embark upon that and I will shortly. In the meantime, I want to get involved in encouraging people to get behind what you're doing and there are many organizations—Kulanu and a whole bunch of them—that are working with the descendants of the Sephardic Jews that were dispersed in the West.

You're doing something that's a little different than what most of them are doing and I champion every bit of what's happening, but you're approaching this from the standpoint of as believers, as Christians, right? We have this responsibility that engages us, allows us to get involved in this incredible work, the people of Israel returning to the land of Israel. Now if what I believe is true and I'm partial, I believe it's true, that this is the ultimate fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter 37, the valley of dry bones. If that's true and again I believe it is, how wonderful is it that we're able to engage, how wonderful is it that we're able to actually put our hands to the plow and do something that will ultimately be a part of that. We can have our engagement, our involvement in bringing this to bear as a reality. Amazing that we have this and we should be all in.

The thing that really amazes me is the timing of it. It's happening right now when we believe in Hebrew there's the reality of the Geulah, the redemption, right? There is always that hope that this would be the Gadol Geulah, the great redemption. So that's kind of happening right now. You can see it, right? Yeshua talked about earthquakes. We're seeing such a horrible rise in these mega-earthquakes and they just keep coming. Not only earthquakes, there are signs in the heavens, the nations are in an uproar. It's clearly pointing to the fact that we live in this time, the time of the Geulah.

So right now is when this process is really taking root. The Vatican in the early 1990s, right when I started awakening, the Vatican came out and basically took responsibility for the Inquisition and for the forced conversions. They came out and they said in 1990 that we acknowledge that we did wrong to the inhabitants of Iberia, to the Jewish communities in Iberia and it wasn't an apology, it was an acknowledgment that they did wrong, that wrong was perpetrated against the Jewish, the Sephardic Jews. That was a release. It was a declaration simply. It wasn't even a bull, it was a declaration that we acknowledge that we did wrong, but it released something into the Bnei Anusim, the converso community and all of a sudden in Spain and Portugal, authors begin to write about the actual Jewish history of Portugal, like with Christopher Columbus. Suddenly after the 1990s, there was this release, this freedom. So it's all pointing to this incredible time that we're in.

No surprise that Jewish hatred or hatred of Jews is spiking right at this time. So we have an active enemy, we have an active adversary that's working in conjunction with his host, his demonic host, to oppose what's happening and that's what we're seeing right now. So as believers, throwing our hats in the ring, getting involved in this is literally in a sense the ultimate spiritual warfare because we're doing something that's promoting the kingdom of God and prophetically establishing the Geulah, being a part of the redemption and it's resisting what it's coming against, what the evil one's doing. I just can't see why every Christian should not be involved in this. I think we should be. Literally you need financing, you need people to finance this whole project and you've been at this for a long time. I mean years ago I spoke to you about this.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: This has been three years that we've been trying to raise the funding. We've raised over the last three years $180,000, but we still have $170,000 left to go to finish it. I just want to add too to the scripture that you mentioned which came to my mind is the Sephardic prophet Obadiah. God told the prophet Obadiah in the last days He was going to wipe out the descendants of Edom because they stood by while their brother Jacob or Israel was held in captivity and they did nothing. We can't even stand by when our brethren need us most to leave them to have to deal with all of these horrible issues that they're dealing with today, the antisemitism. We need to, as in Isaiah 40 verse 1, we need to comfort, "Comfort ye my people," says the Lord.

This film, when I talk to our Jewish brethren and I show them the trailer, they just have tears in their eyes. They can't believe that Christians would want to stand with them, carry their burdens, fight for them, defend them because they have lived for generations under oppression. The release that occurred when the Vatican basically confessed their wrongness is ongoing to today. Portuguese historians, Spanish historians are beginning to feel free to write and what you're doing is part of that release. There are any number of people that are just sitting out there still entrapped, still unsure, still emotionally troubled about their family's history and not even knowing why, that needs to see this to experience that release.

The prophet Obadiah that Laurie mentioned, right after he said what Laurie just paraphrased for us, also said in verse 20 that the exiles of Jerusalem who were exiled from Jerusalem, who are in Sepharad, will possess the cities of the Negev. Now that's sort of an enigmatic thing. You have to really get into the whole chapter, one chapter and see where Obadiah is coming from. But the exiles of Jerusalem, so what's he talking about? He was one of the very early prophets. The exiles of Jerusalem that he was referring to was 70 AD, not 586 BC. He lived before 586 BC, so the divine presence of God in him prophetically alluded him that there's coming a diaspora and Jerusalem will be destroyed.

He was talking about 70 AD because it was after 70 AD that the exiles from Jerusalem went to Iberia. About 80% of the Jewish population in Iberia in the first, second, third century went there because of 70 AD. So Obadiah is seeing the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the exiles from Jerusalem going to Sepharad or Sepharad, but he's talking about them returning. So his prophecy, that one little verse points to what happened in 70 AD and what will begin to happen 1500 years later. Because the return of the descendants of the Sephardim really began in the 1500s with people like Donna Gracia Mendes and other people who really had the same passion that you have.

The passion that you have and I do and Delores does is the same passion that motivated people like Donna Gracia Mendes who took all of her wealth. We don't have that wealth, but we have the passion and you have your talent and so we're investing into Zionism. That's what we're actually doing, that's what she did. So 500 years ago, people like her and many others began to act upon that passion, the hope of the restoration of Zion and the hope of the return of the Sephardic Jews to the land of Israel, fulfilling what Obadiah prophesied 2700 years ago.

Now it says there that they will possess the cities of the Negev. The Negev is not fully populated, it's sparsely populated. So it's making the assertion, prophetic assertion, that the cities of the Negev will come into existence and they will inhabit the Negev. Let's just say 500 million, okay? Let's say 5% of that 500 million were to reconnect and identify because of work like this, what would that be? What would that number be? 25 million. Could the land of Israel even hold 25 million? Oh yes it can. And God did say that they're going to come back and they're going to elbow one another and say, "Scoot over, make room for me. Move aside." The land of Israel's going to become much larger and that's absolutely true because Israel is barely holding the territory that's been promised to her.

So yeah, when Israel expands to its biblical size, more than 25 million can fit into that land. What's so amazing by what you're saying and I have to bring this up because you look at people who accuse Israel of being a colonialist state and stop taking the land and this is coming from Christians. But you know these Christians haven't read their Bible because guess who's going to expand that land that you call the Jews a colonialist for? It's so obvious. So we see it, we have this vision, we also have the passion to push this, to promote this movement and it's divine. It's absolutely divine.

I have one more question and this question might be Delores do you have something else you want to ask?

Delores Lowe: No, I think we're good. Go ahead.

Pastor Roger Diaz: I'm going to ask this question and Delores you can throw in your opinion. This is going to be a tough one. This is going to be a theological conundrum, whatever that is. 25 years ago, I came face to face with this conundrum and I called up my pastor who was Pastor Ken Garrison at the time and I said, "I have this conundrum, I have this passion I want to write, I want to do something but here is what's stopping me or not just stopping me but causing me to really stop and think, ponder."

These people that are emotionally, spiritually reconnecting to Israel are nominal Catholics, most of them, nominal Catholics. Some of them have gone further in their Christian faith. Some of them are actually born again, filled with the Holy Spirit. My question back then and my conundrum really is, based on what a Jewish rabbi told me when I asked the question back 25 years ago, "How are you guys prepared to deal with the return of the Bnei Anusim?" and he looked at me real blunt and he said, "They must all convert. Convert to Judaism." That's what he said to me. "They have to go through that process like anyone else."

If you know anything about this movement, that's a huge conflict right now and a lot of people are really perturbed about the fact that "Hey, I have Jewish blood, I did the DNA work, my family history, why must I make conversion?" But here is the rub. Many of the people that are coming to realize this and come to terms with this with the history are born-again Christians. I don't think they should make conversion. I think they should be comfortable with their family's history, see themselves as being positioned to engage to promote this, but not attempt to become Israel because you're a born-again believer in Yeshua.

It's problematic because then you have to consider the Roman Catholic, nominal Roman Catholic, who's never had an intimate experience, who doesn't really know Yeshua. I would say to them, "Make conversion. Make full conversion." I would agree with the rabbis that are now promoting that very same agenda across the world in Brazil. They're in Brazil and they're preparing people to turn away from their marginal Christianity and enter into full conversion. I support that fully.

Delores Lowe: They need to listen to your sermon on the old and new wineskins.

Pastor Roger Diaz: Well yeah, but I can't convince anyone of that. But you see my point? My point is I cannot say to a truly, truly spirit-initiated believer in Yeshua to abandon your position in Messiah to make conversion because to make conversion you have to denounce any affiliation to Christianity. I would say to you stay away from that, but see yourself as instrumental, being able to engage, being able to support it, but to the nominal Christian I would say, "Make conversion." Am I a heretic?

Delores Lowe: No. So in my opinion, there's no such thing as a nominal Christian, right? If you're a nominal Christian you're not a committed Christian. You're not a Christian, right? So is it better to have the individual floundering out there as a nominal Christian?

Pastor Roger Diaz: Going to church once a year.

Delores Lowe: Right. Or have him encounter his Jewish identity and commit? Because faith in God is faith in God. So conundrum, what do you think?

Laurie Cardoza Moore: I think that and I'm not I mean I can't reference a scripture to address this, but personally I think if you're from the tribe of Judah, you're going to want to walk with Judah. But if you're not, I mean there are the 10 northern tribes. I believe that the tribes of Israel are returning and the 10 northern tribes did not take up the mantle that Judah took up. Only Judah could carry that mantle. So I mean I haven't really thought deep about this conundrum other than me I'm deep thinking and I went deep on this 25 years ago and said stop right there.

Delores Lowe: I'll give you another aspect. The only way that we as human beings are ever truly happy is if we are walking in the purpose that God designed for us. Part of that purpose is the restoration of the nation of Israel and the support to that.

Pastor Roger Diaz: The Geulah. So I'll tell the story and I told you this before and I want to hear a little more from you Laurie but I want to share this little story to that pacifies in me my concern for that conundrum. The story is 25 years old, it happened maybe 30 years ago. A 14-year-old Brazilian girl, she lived in Brasília, Portuguese descent. All the Portuguese names were appropriate for her being Bnei Anusim. She lived in a very isolated community in Brasília, very typical Brazilian, lots of secrets, lots of oppressiveness. Suddenly she began to ask questions about the Jews and about Israel. She began to see on television that there is an Israel. She saw it in the Bible, she saw Israel. Questions came up in her and she became very passionate about it. For a few years all she did was queried her parents and her family members and everyone thought she was just losing her mind. She's going through a phase and they took her to the priest and the priest just said, "Well she's going through something," and no one had answers for her, no one.

Then suddenly her grandfather came from another town and took her to his house and took her to a back room that was locked down completely and he pulled out a scroll and a menorah. He said to her, "What's happening is you are identifying your Jewish soul is coming alive." The rest of the story is that she made conversion and she now lives in the Negev. She made conversion. So she's in the Negev right now, probably in her 60s or something 50s or 60s. But you see I look at that story as a type, an archetype of what I believe is going to be happening in many, many places with many, many people. They're not coming to Christianity. They're leaving marginal non-Christianity and they're coming into Jewish faith reconnecting to their ancestors, but it's happening I can't say organically, it's happening by the Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit has to be the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is moving in people and bringing them to this awareness and there is this awakening that's separate from our Christianity, but not separate from Yeshua. You see because ultimately all of this is the work of Yeshua. He's at the right hand of God, He's carrying out this whole process. He's doing it, but He's not bringing them into Christianity. Maybe He has a bit of a problem with that marginal Christianity.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Another conundrum set you up. I have my personal opinion about that and in the name of Christianity and telling brother Judah that you don't have to keep the Torah, they're basically telling Judah you don't have to do any of that stuff, you're a Christian now. I just keep my mouth shut.

Delores Lowe: Let me make it more interesting for you. There are a lot of Christians who look at us and don't classify us as Christian, right? They call us Jewish or judaizers. So I mean we're already halfway down that road.

Pastor Roger Diaz: But we know that there is a Christian history that transcends Nicaea. All of the problems we see with Christianity and its relationship to Israel, the anti-Israelism that we're seeing today stems from Nicaea. Anti-Zionism, it's just a revival of the hatred, the venom that was stirred up at Nicaea. That's what we're experiencing today because look at it, Nicaea is where the Orthodox church was given birth to with Constantine. Here we are in 2026 and Orthodoxy is surging again. So what we're seeing today is just an extension of Nicaea, but I think it's necessary for our listeners who are truly Christians and born again filled with the Holy Spirit to purposely separate from Nicaea. I think there needs to be just a good old-fashioned deliverance where we denounce the occurrences at Nicaea and break away from it completely. See it as spiritual defilement and denounce whatever happened at Nicaea and any Orthodoxy connection and begin to embrace the word of God and its simple pictures of restoration, the restoration of Israel. Laurie, we want to give you the last word here and you can close us off.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Well the last word that I can share is we live at one of the most exciting times in history. It's amazing that 15 years ago you and I didn't know one another and now look how God has purposefully brought our paths together. And even those of you who are listening, this is an opportunity for us to stand with our Jewish brethren. It's an opportunity to also share these truths with our friends and family and neighbors because people are buying into the lies and the disinformation. But this is an opportunity to build a biblical calling because this message is going to go out to the nations of the world and it's going to be like Hashem said, God's going to whistle for us and we are going to return. I just I want to thank you, thank you so much Pastor for affording me this time to share this important message and so good to meet you Delores to be part of this. Thank you so much for inviting me into your space and letting me share this important work that we're doing for such a time as this.

Delores Lowe: Amen. And could you share your website once more in case people want to reach out?

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Absolutely. If you want to email me: info@pjtn.org or you can go to the website at pjtn.org. That's pajamas, PJs, TN, Tennessee, .org. You'll never forget the website. Thank you Pastor.

Delores Lowe: Thank you for joining us for this special edition of A Voice to the Gentile Church. I'd like to thank Ms. Laurie Cardoza Moore, our special guest who has brought this very important subject to us. It is important for the church to reclaim its true identity and not take the identity the world has put on us. If you have questions, if you want to just reach out to us, you can reach us at voice@buildupzion.org. Until next time, Shalom.

Laurie Cardoza Moore: Thank you again for joining me on this edition of Proclaiming Justice. Please share this podcast with your family and friends. For more information about how you can get involved, please visit our website at pjtn.org. As a PJTN watchman, you can help us keep up the fight to preserve our freedom for our children and their children for such a time as this.