Practice Makes Parent

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Dr. Danny Huerta: Well, hi and welcome to Practice Makes Parent, where we understand it's not about perfection but about transformation. I'm Dr. Danny Huerta.

Rebecca St. James: And I'm Rebecca St. James. I know I say this a lot, Danny, but I am particularly excited about this episode. I really am. I've got one of my dearest friends and my mentors here in the room.

Dr. Danny Huerta: You're very excited about this one.

Rebecca St. James: I am. I want to start off by just asking our audience if you have ever been through something so hard or experienced something that has just caused so much prolonged pain and heartache in your life that you just go, "I don't know how to process this. I don't know how to move through this. I don't know how to get to the other side."

It might be that your child has gone astray. Maybe it's been an illness or a constant struggle in your family. I know that for me, Danny, it was burnout—just being a lot of years on the road, still loving Jesus, still believing in everything that I was singing and saying, but just being burned out. That was painful. There was a lot of pain.

Dr. Danny Huerta: A lot of parents are there at that place. It's tiring. In life day-to-day, there's a churn there and a repetition to days that can feel long and can feel difficult.

Rebecca St. James: Another part of my story was being single for so long. That was also a big challenge. I think all of us can go to those times in our life where we've just struggled. Whatever it is that you're thinking about right now, I know that the place that God wants to bring us to is where we're offering the shattered pieces of our life up to God and we're just saying, "Lord, you do what you want with this."

We are so excited about our guest. In a few minutes, we're going to introduce to you my friend, Carrie Hazenbarg. She's written a book called *The Way of Becoming*. I got to write the foreword for this book. Did you know that, Danny?

Dr. Danny Huerta: I didn't know that. Look at that. It says your name on there: Foreword by Rebecca St. James. It is a really cool cover.

Rebecca St. James: I just love what Carrie teaches. She's been so instrumental in my life, in Cubby's life, and in our family's life—her and her husband, Scott. This book is really all about submitting to God's plan and becoming everything that he's called you to be as a person, as a parent, and as a Christ-follower. That's what we're going to talk about today.

Dr. Danny Huerta: That place of surrender you were talking about in that brokenness, being able to give that, is so hard to do and to admit. Children are not only shaped by our instructions but by our daily postures: how we remember, how we ask, and how we trust.

Those are three keywords that we'll be talking about. Parenting, like spiritual formation, is not about control. It's about faithful presence over time. Today, we're going to see how spirituality and parenting can benefit by taking different postures. This is a posture of the heart and of the soul.

Let's share a little bit more about Carrie first. She's a respected speaker, a writer, a spiritual director, and a mentor. She's passionate about soul care and guiding people toward faith renewal and emotional healing. She's the CEO of the Becoming Foundation and co-founder of the Becoming Academy, leading retreats for individuals, couples, businesses, and teams. She and her husband, Scott, live in Pennsylvania and have four children. Carrie, welcome to Practice Makes Parent.

Carrie Hazenbarg: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Rebecca St. James: It is such a delight to just see your face and to have this time. We've been on a podcast together before years ago, but it just feels so joyous to have you here. I just wanted you to start by just sharing a little bit about the why of this book. I'm privileged to know a little bit about that journey, but what was it about your life and your story that led to this book?

Carrie Hazenbarg: Maybe 20 years ago, the Lord spoke to me as I was laying in bed one night and told me that I was going to be given things to write. I wrestled with it for a really long time. When I realized it was a book, I asked the Lord if I could just write a booklet. I landed on bookmarks, so I actually made a series of bookmarks. I was trying to get out of it.

I wrestled because I thought, "What's special about my life to write a book?" The Lord began to show me, "I want you to write my story through you." But it wasn't until the loss—I had a stillborn child and I had a number of miscarriages. After that, the Lord led me to name her Isabella, meaning "beauty," for the idea of beauty for ashes.

I remember as I was still in the hospital saying to the Lord, "I can't imagine enough beauty would ever come that would deserve those ashes." As I lay there, I said to the Lord, "I'm asking you to give me the kind of beauty that would be for the whole bride." Ultimately, when I finished this book, I thought, "Okay, I have given all that I have to give from the Lord."

Dr. Danny Huerta: There's an action word there that's so important: the "becoming" word. That's what you're talking about, this shaping that God's taking you through. What truths about God do parents most often forget when life feels stressful, and even about their kids as well?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I think what hits me is that we often forget that the answers we're seeking from the Lord will often come through these little image-bearers that are right there. When we get stressed out, we have a tendency not to go into healthy practices but to go into control, self-reliance, or doubling down in fear, shame, and blame—just the natural human patterns.

If we will engage in healthy practices intentionally, we will find sometimes that the children we now need to address and be good parents with might actually be the vessels that God will give us the grace that we need in the hard thing.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Healthy practices—let's talk about that. It could be a workout; it could be all kinds of things. What are these healthy practices that you're talking about?

Carrie Hazenbarg: Biblical-based practices. The Lord all throughout Scripture gives them to us. I think when we talk about the "becoming" practices, they're essentially tools, but it's really talking about being intentional about prayer and intentionally asking the Lord your questions. You aren't just thinking through them and deciding what must be the answer or just going to your friends, but actually stopping and saying, "Lord, I'm asking you. I need your wisdom."

When you find that there's fragmentation or brokenness in your life, you are actually turning and saying, "Lord, this is broken. I'm broken. This is insufficient. This isn't finished. I'm entrusting this to you." You are really naming the aspect that is missing and intentionally inviting the Holy Spirit into that place. The Lord is faithful, but he waits for us to engage in faith. Faith is the evidence of hope. So, we start with, "What am I hoping, and how do I engage in it in a way that is faith?"

Dr. Danny Huerta: Have you and your husband done that together with your kids? I'm sure perfectly, but what does that look like in your home?

Carrie Hazenbarg: Rebecca and I have talked about this a lot. We actually do an "Ask Journal" together. It is easier to get to a place where you're writing in your journal or you're asking questions of the Lord and saying your prayers and your spouse is doing the same. But there's something about coming together and letting one another know what your prayers are.

We have a rule when we do our Ask Journal that we can't counsel one another, but there is this idea that we're walking together, hand-in-hand, in the spirit realm to the throne of grace and saying, "Lord, we're laying this out." It might be my request or it might be Scott's, but now we are vulnerable before one another. That's how Scott and I will often do it. We do it very often, actually. When God answers, we both rejoice and we become closer in that process.

With our kids, we talk about this part in the book. When I was a child and I had questions, I would go to my grandparents about the starving children in Africa and ask, "Should I really believe in this God who might not be feeding them?" or "What must be known about the Lord for us to actually be His?"

My grandmother said to me, "Hang it on the line." I thought, "Hang it on the line? I don't know what that means." We continued in relationship, but what I pictured was a washing line, like a laundry line. I needed it to be tangible because some of my questions were so much and so hard and I was wrestling with things. I actually started writing the questions and hanging them on a physical prayer line after my grandmother had passed.

The first time I had done it, the Lord answered in miraculous fashion. I talk about those miracles that happened in the book. When I was parenting and my children would come and ask us questions or for things to come about in their lives, it is so easy as a parent to go into what you can afford or what's convenient.

The first time we engaged in this practice of hanging it on the line—we call it our spiritual clothesline—was with my daughter Maya when she came and asked for a horse. It is not a small request. It's the one thing that every little girl at some point asks for. She came and asked, "Do you think that I'll ever get a horse?"

I said, "No." We can't afford a horse. We're not even allowed to have chickens. But as I crushed her little spirit and she walked away—you can picture Maya, right?—this thing came from the Holy Spirit that I was not doing for her what my grandmother had done for me. I was playing God in my daughter's life, and I was basing it on what I could cause her to become.

I went upstairs, apologized, and said, "You know what? I don't know what God has for you. You might marry somebody rich enough that can get you a horse." That's as far as I could go. I said, "Why don't you just hang it on the line?" And she did. Within two weeks, we had a cousin call and say, "Do you think that your daughter could take care of our horse for a couple of years while she's in college?"

Rebecca St. James: Isn't that the best? I just love that story so much. You actually have a piece of string and little paper cutouts of doll clothes where the kids write their requests to God on them. You have it hanging in your house. I've done it at retreats with you, and I just love that very visible picture of asking. Even in our family's movie, *Unsung Hero*, there was a very similar tangible writing it on the wall, and then when God answers the prayer, writing that he answered.

It is a good way to very visibly see the hand of God in our family's life and in our kids' lives. There's just a couple of ideas for you. Carrie, we named this podcast "Who You Are Becoming As A Parent." I'd love for you to speak to why it is important that we are becoming or growing as parents.

I think we can know that it is important that our kids are spiritually growing and that they're being formed, but in our culture today, we talk about self-care. We're talking about soul care. You are a person that is passionate about soul care. Why is it important that as parents we are becoming and we're growing?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I don't even think it's just important that we're growing, but that our kids actually know and see it. Once we become the "answer men and women," this disconnect happens with our children. If they aren't aware that we still have weakness—a lot of weakness—and that we still are dependent on the Lord, when they start to make mistakes, they will pull away from us.

When we do get stuck and think, "Okay, we've gotten to a certain age, we should know by now," we've misunderstood how God works. It's in our weakness that he's strong. It doesn't matter how old we are; it always has to start with need.

All throughout the Old Testament, the children of Israel did evil in the Lord's sight over and over again because they started looking to human leaders or to self-reliance. If we want to have the power of the Holy Spirit invading our reality, helping us parent, and helping us become, we have to start with, "Lord, here is my need. I'm bringing it to you." When we do that, the Lord is forming some new aspect of his character in us. Usually, the need is an invitation to some new aspect of him. If our children see that, then that will be their pattern in life, that they're still becoming.

Dr. Danny Huerta: The influence from parents to their kids on faith makes a huge difference, research shows over and over again, even with our teenagers. One of the words that you emphasize is "remember." The journal would be a good place to start on that, where you said a prayer and now you remember as God is answering those.

In the Old Testament, it talks about God telling the Israelites, "Lest you forget." Those were some key words. He said, "Things are going to get good, and you might forget me." And they did. Let's talk about this very important word. We love to remember. We have pictures; we love to take pictures of things, and we're longing for remembering things in our life. Sometimes we remember the good and the bad. Either way, we're interacting with that.

Carrie Hazenbarg: In our home, we actually use the term "B-roll." B-roll is the idea of the continuous, unedited version of a film. We love to give the highlight reel, and it's dangerous when we give the highlight reel to our children because they can't relate to it all going well. Parents have a tendency to do that.

We need to make sure we tell our stories to our children in the truest form. I think it is in Deuteronomy where the Lord says, "I humbled you, I made you hungry and then I fed you, I made you thirsty and then I gave you drink," because he's trying to remind us that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

If our children don't know that that is how their parents walked—that they were needy and they cried out and the Lord answered them in the B-roll form—then we're telling a story about ourselves being a hero. Then our children wait to become the hero of their story before they come and engage with Mom and Dad. We wonder where the disconnect is, but it's really that our children are intimidated because we're not telling them really who we are and that the hero of our story is the Lord.

In our house, we tell our stones of remembrance. We've had huge miracles in our lives. But we learned early on that our children are young and they might not have big stones of remembrance, so we call them the pebble pathway. We want them to have little remembrances on a regular basis. My husband came up with the idea—we call it now the Hazenbarg dinner practice—but at dinner, he will ask, "How has God loved you in the last 24 hours?"

Rebecca St. James: You did that at our house just not that long ago over a meal, and I love it. I love that so much. I want to incorporate that regularly.

Carrie Hazenbarg: It's beginning good conversation, but the adjustment is we're saying, "Let's focus on the fact that the Lord was involved in that." How did God love you? They'll name the vessel: "So-and-so said this nice thing to me," or "I won my race." But because their mind is being told, "How did God choose a vessel through which to do this beautiful thing?" then the next day they're looking for how else did God show up. It keeps them from setting up idols or deciding this person has to be my best friend forever. It keeps them from idolatry and helps the Lord be the hero.

It also gives them little stones so that when they are in the darkness—I loved what you said about the shadow pieces. When our kids find that they have shadow pieces in their story, they can look back and go, "But God has been good to me, and I'm going to use these pebbles when I'm in the shadows to get back home to his presence."

Rebecca St. James: Absolutely. When they're in the valley and not on the mountain, they can remember the mountain. That's so good. Danny shared earlier that we want to focus on three of these 12 practices that you have in your book. You have 12 practices for a thriving soul, and everybody, I really encourage you to get this book, *The Way of Becoming*. It's fabulous and, again, is just driving you deeper in your relationship with Jesus so that you can offer to your kids and in your marriage this thriving heart that is so connected to him.

We talked in a recent podcast about how we can't offer in relationship what we don't have ourselves. We offer in relationship what is an overflow of what we already know. That's why we're told to love your neighbor as you love yourself. We have to actually love ourselves first to love others. We want to have these thriving souls, but we've talked about "remember." Let's move on to "ask," this idea of asking in our relationship with Jesus. Do you see parents relying on performance or self-reliance instead of asking for wisdom or help?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I think it's really important for every parent to ask themselves the question, "What was the most important thing to their parents?" because it will reveal the center of their family wheel. We say, "Oh, Jesus and faith is the most important," but you ask your kids, "What's the most important thing to your parents?" They'll be like, "Good grades, working hard, being healthy."

To be able to identify what that is in our lives as parents—what did we grow up with and where is it incomplete?—and then asking the Lord to invade that space so that we can sort of become rightly aligned and admitting where we weren't aligned and asking the Lord to make us more plumb, in line with him. Not plump. Plumb with a "B" on the end of it.

I think especially in parenting, because what does it say? That the Lord was so pleased to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand. He was rebuilding the temple. But it also says to not despise the days of small things. In parenting, we've been entrusted with these miniature image-bearers who teach us how to become. We become formed through them and we become vessels of their formation. In these magical beings that God has given us in children, don't despise that there's wisdom here in this process and just be journeying in that way.

Dr. Danny Huerta: In James 1:5, it says, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him." In thinking about that, when we ask, many times we ask with an expectation of an answer. What you're saying is there's a posture here, and this is all about posture. Where's our heart in the ask? In this one, he grants wisdom to those that come with a true question and a true ask. What's the difference between an ask that has a posture that is not aligned in that plumb line compared to one that is fully aligned?

Carrie Hazenbarg: What comes to me is that Scripture that says, "You have not because you ask not," but then it goes on to say, "But you ask and you did not receive because you asked amiss to spend it on yourselves." It is interesting that that's one of the qualifications. It's like, "When I give you what I'm going to give you, are you ready to understand that this isn't just for yourself? It's for my people and for the common good."

That's one of the things that I'll ask people to consider as they go to the clothesline, but also to have that place of "Lord willing." He knows what we're meant to become. We don't know the future of our children or even our own future, but he does.

Coming with that understanding that he's giving you a sovereign will, but he also has a plan for you and steps for you to walk in that he's laid out beforehand. It looks like a clothesline string strung on our mantle above our fireplace. We have these 50 kids that now come to our house every Sunday. There's a lot there. They just know it's hanging there.

At any given time when they're like, "I'm looking for wisdom" or "I'm having this problem," we're just saying to them, "Just lay it down, give it to the Lord, name it, so that when he answers—whether it's in an hour, tomorrow, or 10 years down the road—you will know that you asked it. You will know you submitted it to the Lord, and you have to trust that he knows what's best for you when the time comes."

I have seen so many miracles at retreats because I think we talk so much about prayer and trust, but we don't actually engage the evidence of hope and the substance of the unseen. It's stuff. So, there is something about actually writing it down. I don't know why the Lord honors that.

God loved us so much he created the world and made it tangible. He sent his Son, tangible and physical. That's how he does it for us. We had this woman that came on retreat who said, "This is really hard for me to be here. I haven't seen my son in a year, and every day I just wonder if he's dead." I thought, "I can't believe she's here. I just want to pray for her."

We had taught on asking and just risking and writing what you want from the Lord and just laying it before him and trusting him. She wrote that her son would come home. She'd been asking for so long in her prayers. She got home from retreat and he was standing on the front porch.

Dr. Danny Huerta: That's amazing. One of the things that we use in our house is, "Is that a request, or is that a demand?" In this case, it was a request. "Lord, I really would love my son to be there." She was wanting that out of this posture of dependence and full surrender to him. Our kids get to learn that. Many times when we say "you can ask," there's an intention behind that. I encourage parents to use that phrase. It's a very helpful one for a child to begin to understand how to look inward at their posture. Am I demanding something, but it's couched in a question? Or am I truly asking and wanting an answer and waiting for that answer with a humble heart?

Rebecca St. James: We're talking within this idea of "ask" about us becoming closer to Jesus and growing in our relationship with him as his kids ourselves. We're parents, but we're his kids. We're also modeling that for our children—asking God and coming to him humbly. Can you also speak to this other dynamic within the family of fostering relationship with your kids? You talked about around the table, asking, "How have you seen Jesus love you in a practical way over the last 24 hours?" I love that question.

I know from encountering your family that you're very close to each of your children. You have excellent, healthy relationships with each of them. One is already at college and you've maintained that. How have you fostered a community of asking, of curiosity, and of connectedness? What are some of the other practices that you have within your home where you're encouraging this kind of open communication?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I think it comes back to the fact that I do not feel like I have to have the answers and I don't have to play God in their lives. I'm very free in that way because the Lord has shown me that I don't have to be God. I often wonder if I don't have the answers because I really just am one of those parents that doesn't have the answers. I'm very weak and I'm very needy. My kids are so aware that I am.

Even thinking about bad behaviors, when they would act up, I would think, "I actually don't really know how to punish them the right way." So, in my head, I would think, "Okay, I need time to think about this." I would actually say to them, "Okay, what you're doing is not best. I don't know why you're doing it. We need to get to the bottom of it, and I'm not even sure what I want to do as a punishment. So, I'm going to think about it. If you have some suggestions, let me know. Just write them down, please."

I think we were always so aware that I didn't have to have the answers, but I did need to take the time to turn my focus to the Lord and say, "I really need your wisdom. Like, what's the best punishment? What's not going to hurt them in a way that's going to pull them away from you, Lord? And how do I punish this one but not the whole lot of us?"

I think it's just this dependency that has fostered that kind of close relationship. We talk a lot on the show about curiosity, and I see that in you and Scott as you're parenting. You're curious about your kids. Gemma's actually given me some good ideas. She said, "You know what? That consequence is not working, Mom. It doesn't have value." I think asking our kids and really just promoting that open conversation is so very important.

My kids are so aware that I'm so curious about the Lord. Every night before they go to bed, my husband started this thing where he would say, "God is for you and he is with you," and then the child will say, "Never leaves you nor forsakes you," and then the whole household will say, "God sees all." It reminded everybody before bed every night that God sees. He sees the people who bully you, he sees what you desire, he sees what you've done wrong, and that sense of there's another entity present that is over Mom and Dad is a big deal.

Dr. Danny Huerta: In this, you are fostering trust, which is a foundation to a home and a relationship. When you look at the grand story in Scripture, trust was lost in the garden. And then from there, it's just been wobbly, and we've been trying to establish a trust with our heavenly Father. The strategy of the enemy is not new, and the place he goes is this place of trust. But you guys are setting up a foundation of trust so that when the tough questions come in, you've established enough relational capital there that you can talk about those things.

So, let's talk about the importance of trust. How does a family build that, and what happens if a family hasn't been building this part of trust?

Carrie Hazenbarg: When I think about trust and my own struggles with trust, especially when hardship came, it's hard to trust. In relationships with other people, I remember asking the Lord, "How can I trust in this area that feels so broken?" I connect trust to where there's broken trust or just brokenness, and I wanted so badly to have something tangible.

I remember I had woken up and was looking outside my yard and I saw all these broken pieces of glass in this vision over this one part of my backyard. I felt like the Lord was showing me, "You have so much brokenness and you need to entrust it to me." I started to connect where I struggle with trust—trusting God and trusting people—because I was accumulating brokenness and it became my reasons not to trust again.

I actually went and bought a whole bunch of different colored pieces of sea glass, and I just laid it out and was like, "Lord, I know that I'm so broken." I had a lot of hard things that had happened, and I started naming them. I went, "Lord, I'm going to entrust this thing because I don't trust because there's been brokenness." I started making this connection.

With my children, when they struggle to trust, it's because there's anxiety or there's something that's incomplete. Maybe they don't know me or God fully. They may get to know me or someone else fully and find, "Oh, there's reason not to trust. I'm seeing your humanness." Realizing, "Okay, but I can trust God to fill in all of these gaps where there is going to be something that's incomplete," is one of the ways that we really address a lack of trust. We entrust our broken things. When I break things in the house, Annika used to say, "Oh, Mom's going to retreat that." Yes, we need to treat our brokenness a little bit differently and take it to the Lord.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Look at social media and what it's creating around trust. If we look at AI, we have to face the fact that AI is here, and also just that social media brings in a lack of trust on what's real and what's not real. I remember reading some things on the news and I had to check somewhere else to see if it was even true. It's exponentially getting worse.

Some of the things that we've learned here in our counseling department as we're looking at some of the AI stuff—it begins to say whatever you want to hear instead of what would be the right thing or the true thing. This place of trust is something that our kids are facing in a new and more intense way. Sometimes things are turning kids against their parents. If there's a break of trust, what is a first step to begin to repair that or reconnect trust in a relationship, especially with a teen or a child that's going into that adult-child range?

Carrie Hazenbarg: Especially with AI right now, we don't think, "I'm going to go get God's wisdom." We think, "I'm going to go to AI and get the answer to this." But AI is not thinking about the invisible piece, which is the God of the universe who created humans and the only person who actually knows everything that's going on and what everyone's thinking.

I think it has to begin with pulling down the wisdom of God. Why do we cut off parents? Because we're afraid. We're afraid to go through the same thing that we've already gone through. It goes back to that brokenness. I need to ask the Lord to protect me. I need to ask the Lord to give me wisdom. The Lord knows how my family or my parent is being formed and is changing. We are given the ministry of reconciliation, but we have to intentionally go, "I need the Holy Spirit and his presence to enter into this thing."

It's really hard for parents to entrust their children. I was thinking about how getting my son ready for his cross-country races, I would give him the right food to eat and pray over him, but I couldn't run his race. He said, "Mom, I'm not going to look at you when I run by you because if I turn my head toward you, I'll slow down. You can cheer me on, but I gotta run this race." That's trust. We can do all that we can, but we have to let go.

Rebecca St. James: Can you speak to the parent that's listening right now who's just emotionally depleted, just super burned out or overwhelmed? They see themselves operating more out of a place of fear and control rather than trust and love. I heard that quote recently that generally all of our decisions in life are either motivated by fear or love. Can you just speak some encouragement to that parent that's listening right now?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I think when we get anxious and we're fearful, it seems natural that if we worry or we work hard and get in control, that's us doing something that's beneficial. We've no idea that it's actually causing harm. I think it's super important for parents that are in that place to intentionally just stop. Name your child that you're struggling with, name the situation, and say, "Lord Jesus, forgive me for playing God. Forgive me for not trusting you. I'm asking you to come in and bring your strength. You know my child. You can do this."

God will love us enough to show us that we're insufficient. It feels like not being loved, but he'll love us that way. Then we start to feel shame. In our shame, we have a tendency then to turn often to our spouse or our child and start to blame them. We end up in these really bad spirals. At any point in that spiral, we can stop.

My mom and my dad had some struggles when they were raising us. I remember my mother calling me and apologizing for how much she had done wrong. That night, I had a dream. I pictured my mom and dad walking in front of me and they were throwing banana peels behind them and making holes, and I was this little girl in the dream walking in potholes and banana peels. I saw these great big hands come and just clear away the debris and make straight the path. At the end of my dream, I saw my mother on her knees praying.

That is such encouragement. Now as a parent 25 years later, I'm realizing I didn't get it right at the first end. So, Lord Jesus, smooth the path for my children. Honor my prayers.

Dr. Danny Huerta: As your kids learn to trust in him, there is going to be adversity. In that, there's a strengthening that begins to take place in who they are in their soul. I remember my daughter wrote that in my journal. She said, "Dad, remember life is not about having it easy." That was such a reminder for me as a parent. It's about a life that's shaped in a way where we get on our knees and we learn to trust in our heavenly Father, no matter the road ahead.

Rebecca St. James: I hope that you've been encouraged to turn to Jesus yourself. That's probably the best parenting that we can do, is just have a living relationship with Jesus ourselves and be showing what that looks like. I see that in you, Carrie. Parenting is full of joy, but at times there's uncertainty and moments where we wish we handled things differently.

But as Carrie has reminded us, formation happens slowly and often beneath the surface. If today's conversation has resonated with you, we want to encourage you to get your copy of *The Way of Becoming*. We'd be happy to send it to you for a gift of any amount. As you sow into Focus on the Family, you're sowing into all these parents and these families and these children, and you will be blessed by this wonderful book. You can learn a little bit more about that in the show notes.

Dr. Danny Huerta: When parents practice remembering, asking, and trusting, they're actually modeling emotional regulation and resilience for their children. When a child knows there's an adult who always comes back, who listens, and who stays emotionally available, they benefit simply from being in relationship with someone who is willing to grow alongside of them. That actually builds a secure attachment that's steadfast.

Start with one small idea that was shared today and let us know how things changed in your home. If you'd like to bring these ideas and build resilience to your church or even your business or your school, reach out to us about our Built for Resilience webinar. We have those monthly, and in those, we tell you more about our resource. It's a Train the Trainer where you get to learn how to provide these 13 weeks of classes for parents. But in the process, you're learning along with the parents. We've put a link in the show notes if you'd like more information on that.

Rebecca St. James: Here we are at the Q&A portion of our show. Carrie, we would like you, if you're open to it, to respond to our listener question. Are you good with that?

Carrie Hazenbarg: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca St. James: Today's question comes from Laura, who writes: "My husband isn't what you'd call a spiritual leader in the home. We have three young kids under 10, and after work, I barely have the energy to make sure we all pray together before we eat. We go to church as a family, but honestly, it's mostly for the kids. My husband isn't interested in doing small groups or anything like that. What can I do as a mom when Dad won't lead spiritually? Do I ask him to step up and share my expectations with him? I don't think he'd be receptive to me asking him to do more in this area, even though he knows God wants him to. Any advice?"

Sometimes we think that these changes that we want to see spiritually in our homes have to be these big revolutions, but it can be so small. It could literally be reading a verse over your kids as they're having breakfast in the morning or one little devotional that you read once or twice a week. At a time where your kids are coloring—I know that has been helpful for our family—starting small and building this habit formation within the home. Lead with grace and you can build from there. Carrie, what would you say to Laura?

Carrie Hazenbarg: I think it's important to water what you want to grow and to starve what you want to die. Really become a student of your spouse and see the things that you really love that they do, that they're modeling already, and encourage them in that way. A lot of men won't step out to do these things because they feel like they might be insufficient to do it or they can be intimidated by a very spiritual woman.

If they're a man of character, then they are modeling the things of the Scriptures, and even just to make that connection in front of your children. My husband has gotten to a place where he'll just send Scriptures to our children on a family thread. I think it is exactly what you said: it's the little things. Pay attention and encourage what you can. But I think also coming to him with the things that you're praying about and just saying, "Hey, I'm praying about these things. If you would just pray for me in this way," and then being communicative when the Lord shows up.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Laura, sometimes resentment can build underneath the surface on this, and in that place, your husband can begin to pull away and just say, "I can't make you happy." I love the question you've asked here. This is a common question that moms bring when a dad is not stepping into this expected role. There are many things that he's probably doing well. The more you point that out, the more he rises to the occasion.

In the meantime, maybe the spiritual teaching part of spiritual leadership in your home is you. Both of you are part of the spiritual leadership in your own unique ways. As you are teaching, maybe your husband will become curious and will want to begin to teach. Just keep moving forward with it. Your kids need that from you. God's still working in your husband's heart.

If you get stuck on some of this stuff, remember we do have that counseling line here at Focus on the Family: 1-800-232-6459. You can talk specifically about maybe some things that have been built between the two of you. Maybe it'd be good to have a session or two with a counselor to reset as a couple and break free from resentment that may have built in there.

Rebecca St. James: Thank you, Laura, so much for your very honest question. We're going to send you Danny's book, *Seven Traits of Effective Parenting*, to say thanks for being a part of our show. If you're listening and you have a question, send us an email or a voicemail by clicking on the show notes. Carrie, you filled us with a lot of wisdom and very practical ideas. Thank you for being here on the show with us.

Carrie Hazenbarg: This is great. Thank you guys.

Rebecca St. James: Such a joy to be with you. We hope you join us next week because we will be talking about understanding adaptability in parenting and tying it into your book, *Seven Traits of Effective Parenting*.

Dr. Danny Huerta: It's about that flexibility of mind. You don't want to miss it. You're going to get some very practical tools on being a more adaptable parent. Until then, I'm Dr. Danny Huerta.

Rebecca St. James: And I'm Rebecca St. James. Join us next time for more tips for transforming your parenting on Practice Makes Parent.

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