Practice Makes Parent

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Rebecca St. James: Hi and welcome to Practice Makes Parent, where we understand it's not about perfection but about transformation. I'm Rebecca St. James.

Dr. Danny Huerta: And I'm Dr. Danny Huerta. Today, we are going to talk about Bible literacy and how to really help our children develop a hunger for the Word of God. This is something that I know is a passion of mine and something that a lot of parents are concerned about and really want to be encouraged in this area.

One of the ideas that I've conceptually understood even this far in, 40 years in, I just aged myself right there, but for the first time in my life, I feel like that concept really of the washing of the Word of God. I've heard that scripture for so long, so much of my journey with Jesus, but just that when we listen to scripture, when we read it, there's this washing that happens in our hearts that we want for our children, we want that purity, that cleansing of the Word of God. So how can we ignite this fire in our kids for the Bible and young? That's what we're going to be talking about today.

Dr. Danny Huerta: The Psalms, right? Psalm 62 and 63, I'm reminded of those, that we thirst. There's this thirstiness. Well, a lot of parents aren't reading their Bibles, and there was a study done a few years back that found that 69% of teens own a Bible, but only about 25% read it weekly.

I think if we polled adults, if we polled even pastors, there's a struggle to dig into God's word and to have that thirst when all the demands are coming around us. So this isn't about guilting people. We're missing an opportunity here, an invitation to be in that relationship, that close relationship with our Heavenly Father. That's what we want to invite our kids into.

The most common reasons behind the lack of engagement are crowded schedules and a sense of indifference in the parents reading it themselves. That was from that research study I was referencing. On the flip side of that, the Center of Bible Engagement did a small study of about 1,000 children recently, and they found that when a child reads their Bible at least four days a week, they're less likely to be involved in behaviorally risky activities.

So there are definitely benefits to teaching God's Word to our kids. In a recent study that we did here at Focus on the Family on marriage, we found that couples that pray together and read God's Word together for four days out of the week, if they do that consistently four days out of the week, they are much less likely to divorce each other. The percentage goes exponentially down. So there's a power to being engaged in God's Word and in prayer together as a family. We'll talk more about how parents can encourage a love of scripture on this show.

Rebecca St. James: We're also going to answer a listener question about how to combat secular ideas in public schools and how to help children maintain their faith without being judgmental to their friends who may think differently. That's a little later on.

Dr. Danny Huerta: It's going to be a good one to have our guest help us answer. There's a lot of practical information coming your way today and we're so glad that you've joined us. We're thankful for your engagement in your family and in this show with us.

Our guest today is Mary Wiley. She and her husband have four children, and she holds a Master's degree in theological studies from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. She works with Lifeway, has written several books through that and participated in a lot of writings. But we're going to talk specifically about her book, Discovering the Bible: A Kid's Guide to Reading and Understanding God's Word. Mary, welcome to Practice Makes Parent.

Mary Wiley: Thanks so much for having me, guys.

Rebecca St. James: Thank you for being here, Mary. This is really exciting to learn about how we can help our kids engage with the Bible and engage young. I love to ask this question a lot, but just what was your personal passion? Why did this become such a big thing on your heart to write a book encouraging kids to read the Bible?

Mary Wiley: I've been involved in kids' ministry since I was a kid myself, it seems. I've always loved to pass down, really in so many ways, God has just given me a passion for teaching, for helping people understand God's Word and so I got to exercise that in the most comfortable of spaces as a teen, which was with kids.

I fell in love with the way that they asked questions, with the way that they really did have childlike faith, and just have continued in that ministry work. I definitely believe it really deepened when I had my own kids and I saw the need to raise up children who love God's Word, who live God's Word, and who tell others about God's Word, both at their school and on a baseball team, and a gymnastics meet, any chance that they can get to be sharing God's Word. So I just loved seeing the light turn on in the eyes of kids when they're like, "Oh, the Bible is not just for big people, for adults, the Bible is actually for me."

Rebecca St. James: How old are your kids right now?

Mary Wiley: So I have a 10-year-old, a 9-year-old, a 4-year-old, and a 14-week-old. So we are all across the spectrum.

Rebecca St. James: You are amazing. You just had a baby. This is incredible. We're extra honored that you just had your fourth child and you're with us right now. Well, good for you, that's incredible. I just want to ask, what do you see with your kids these ages? What do you see working to connect your own children to the Bible?

Mary Wiley: So often it's just the conversations that are happening as we come and as we go. A lot of our conversations happen in the car. Even yesterday, we were talking about, okay, what is heaven actually like? What happens when people pass away? What does it really mean to be absent from the body but to be present with the Lord? What will happen when Jesus returns?

So these conversations that seem in many cases big for a 4-year-old. She's in the car, she's having these conversations. My 10 and 9-year-olds are really leading the charge, but she's asking questions as well. As I've had these conversations on the fly, you begin to realize nothing is too difficult for even the smallest child if you're willing to break down the information and really talk about it.

So those moments have really made a difference, but we also around the dinner table talk about the things of the Lord, help them apply the Bible to their daily life. So I think kids need handholds, they need tools that they can go back to throughout the day so that the Bible is not just an intellectual ascent. It's not just a thing they do with their minds, it's actually a thing they do with their hearts and even with their bodies, with their hands that they're serving people as Jesus calls us to serve people in His word. Helping them implement not just a head knowledge but a heart desire and hands that are willing to serve has been the biggest part of their journey.

Dr. Danny Huerta: That approach of head, heart, and hands, that approach that's talked about. There's an environment that you're encouraging, Mary, and you've clearly done that with your family intentionally. If kids are asking these questions, it means that it's a norm within the culture of your home to be curious about who God is, to ask the big questions about life at this stage of their development. So how did you and your husband, what did you guys talk about to set these rhythms in your home and to set an environment that is pursuing and thirsting after God's word, probably imperfectly. What does that look like as far as the environment that you've set up for your home?

Mary Wiley: We talk a lot about curiosity in all manners of life, not just in their Bible reading, but I want kids to feel comfortable asking questions. I think that that is potentially the most challenging thing we've created in our churches for adults is that they don't feel comfortable asking questions. There are often a lot of questions lingering in the room, and if you're older than the age of like 15, you often think you should know the answer and that you must be the only one in the room who doesn't know.

So we are constantly telling our kids, if you have a question, let's seek it together, let's be curious, let's build an opportunity to ask and answer those questions. Often I get the opportunity to say, "I don't know. I don't know the answer. Let us go look, let us go read the Bible together, let us call a pastor that we know, let's find the answer." But it is really helpful for a kid to hear, "Oh wait, my mom who seems to really have it all together from my 8-year-old, 9-year-old point of view doesn't know everything there is to know about God."

What I love is that that teaches our kids that it is a lifetime of knowledge, a lifetime of following Jesus and that every day we're getting deeper, we're getting closer, we're learning, but it never ends because God's grace, God's goodness cannot be plumbed. It is a well too deep to draw all the water from. I want them to know that the Bible isn't just something to figure out, it's not a puzzle once you solve it you're done, it's not a final exam that once you pass you get to move on to the better things of life, that the Gospel, the Bible, all the story the Bible is telling really is the better part of life. That through questions, they get to experience it more deeply because our God is able to handle their questions, that He is not afraid of their questions, He is not too small for their questions, but that He welcomes it, even if it's doubting questions, even if it's difficult questions of why, God, why did this happen? That they serve a God who like in Job, when He speaks to Job from the whirlwind, even when He doesn't answer all of Job's questions, He proves that He is with him. That's what I want my kids to know is that even in their questions, they serve a God who walks every step of the way with them.

Rebecca St. James: And He's big enough to handle all of that. I love that. Apart from maybe perpetuating this shame if you're beyond 15 like you said and don't know the answer to things or not encouraging curiosity enough or questions with kids, what other things do you see parents making mistakes in when it comes to teaching their kids scripture? What are some of those mistakes that we might be making accidentally?

Mary Wiley: I think we often think that the Bible is too hard for children, that we need to dumb it down, make it more simple. What I've learned is that kids actually are more accepting of the truth than adults ever could be because they're just so trusting of this God who loves them. They're like, "He loves me, this must be true. I'm going to believe what He says."

They might think that it's too above their reading level, it's too above their heads. I also see parents think that they don't know enough. So like earlier when I said I love to tell my kids I don't know, I want parents to know that one of the most powerful things they can tell their children is, "I don't know, but let's find out." To be a partner in that curiosity rather than just a teacher makes all the difference in kids being willing to bring those questions as they continue to grow, especially as they discover what might be more uncomfortable questions as they experience cultural challenges at school or they run into things that they're not quite sure what to do with. It's so helpful for them to know I can come to my mom and dad, I can come to those who love me, maybe it's a teacher at church, maybe someone listening doesn't have children but really wants to serve the kids at their church well. Well, be that person who welcomes their questions. None of us ever graduate from having questions, but it is a real disservice to all of us if we graduate from asking them.

Dr. Danny Huerta: It's kind of like working out as far as the results of things. That it's small little things, small little decisions that are, that make a difference in the ultimate goal. In this one, if you think, "I'm going to ask a few questions and then, okay, I did my thing," it doesn't get the results immediately. It's a culture, a habit of asking the questions and pursuing the truth underneath the surface, pursuing God's Word, praying even for wisdom on things that we don't know well.

Then you modeling that, because a parental indifference towards scripture will be mirrored by kids. If you have kind of an indifference towards reading God's word and you're saying, "Yeah, we're Christians, we're going to go to church and we do," and you have a rhythm that is absent of that habit, kids will mirror that. It's one where we can begin with ourselves. How can I begin to model that thirst, that pursuit, opening God's Word, asking the big questions, and then maybe anticipating with our kids, "I wonder if you're asking this question." Mary, you'd be really good at this, and as a teacher to your kids, you seem to be intentional about going into a place of curiosity with your kids. How can a parent practice that in a way that's going to be productive with the different stages? That curiosity that doesn't push them away, but a curiosity that actually pulls them in. What does that look like on the behaviors and the way that parents approach this with each of the stages of development?

Mary Wiley: It is as simple as me as a child catching my mom with her Bible open in her lap. Many times I would wake up and my mom would already be awake, sitting in her chair, reading her Bible. In those moments she didn't shun me away. She didn't say, "Hey, I'm having a quiet time, I need you to not talk." Instead, she invited me into that not-so-quiet time and let me say, "What are you reading? What are you learning? Why are you spending these early moments of your day in the Bible?"

Those were some of the most instructive conversations because what I learned is that my mom was building her life on something that had a strong foundation. Just like you said, kids are watching, they're learning from what we believe is true about the scriptures. If they see us be flippant about it, they too will be flippant. If they know we're not building our lives on these truths, if they think that they're just true statements that we say but we don't actually believe in our lives, then they too will say that they're true, but they won't stake their lives on them.

The ancient Near East idea of belief is not at all what our Western idea of belief is. There wasn't even a concept, there's not even a vocabulary word to describe thinking something is true without actually staking your life on it. To believe anything in the ancient Near East was to live as though it was so true that it was worthy of your life or your death. That's what I want to be true about our kids is that they see us love scripture and they desire to love it as well. It's as easy as catching your parent with their Bible open, but it's also as expansive as asking kids to engage with questions.

In college, I entered into a discipleship relationship my first week of freshman year, not knowing at all what I was getting myself into. Our first meeting lasted about three minutes and my campus minister said, "Here's what I need you to do. Here are three verses. I need you to take these back and in one week, I need you to return with 50 questions about these verses." 19-year-old Mary rolled her eyes because I did not think that I could ask 50 questions about three verses. I thought it was a ridiculous endeavor.

The next week, because I don't like to return to a classroom without doing what I've been asked to do, I'm a Type A personality, so I did ask 50 questions. I didn't feel like they were great questions, but what I learned that next week when I rolled into that classroom is that none of our questions were the same. That there were far more than 50 questions that could have been asked about these very simple three verses.

When I practice this in my every Sunday classroom with second graders, we use Discovering the Bible every Tuesday, that's why I wrote it, was for my kids and my classroom because I wanted them to believe the Bible and to be biblically literate when they left my classroom and went on to the next. Every week when I use this, what I love is that the first 10 or so questions are comprehension. They're asking, why did God say this? What does it mean when He uses this word? But the next five or so are what kids are actually wondering. They start to ask, why should I become a Christian? What do I do on the playground when my friend calls someone a mean name and I know that's not right but I don't know how to respond in a way Jesus would want me to? What do I do? So what I love about that 50 question prompt is that it makes you get behind the text. It makes you find the principles of the text and it makes you begin to apply those to your life because they are the logical next step. We just rarely get that far. We often live in the world of comprehension without taking that next step. We do this with my kids in my house, we do this with my kids at my church, is we ask them to ask as many questions as they can.

Dr. Danny Huerta: If I gave them that amount of time, it would be infinite amounts. There are times when I'm like, "Would you look at the time? That question's really hard. I think it's time for you to go to your next class." Mary, as you were growing up, what did you not understand about the Bible that you wish someone had taught you earlier?

Mary Wiley: Until I was in college, I went to Bible college, and until I really had a professor lean in and help me understand how every story was connected, how every story was a story about Jesus, and how the Bible was telling one big redemptive story that wasn't just way back then but was for me right now. I wish that I had known that as a 10-year-old, as a 12-year-old. I wonder how I might be different today if I knew that earlier.

That really is the hope of Discovering the Bible, it's the hope of all the ministry I do is that I want kids to understand that the Bible is not just separated little vignette stories that are cute and have application and, be kind and do good to one another. Yes, that is like, we want to look like Jesus. But the story of the Bible is a story of a God who loves you so much that He was willing to send His Son to rescue you from sin and death that you chose, that you chose to live in and He still wanted to save you from that rebellion.

I have a deeper appreciation for the prophets, for the Psalms, for the letters, because I understand that all of them are about Jesus. So a kid can walk into the book of Leviticus having left my classroom and find beauty in it rather than a list of laws because it's all about Jesus. It is an opportunity for God to say, "I've set you apart for a purpose. I've covered you with the blood, not of these rams and goats and bulls, but of my Son, and that I'm doing a really good thing in your midst because my Son could keep these laws that you couldn't keep."

Rebecca St. James: So you in your book, Discovering the Bible, have four Bible study steps that you encourage probably kids and adults to be engaging in. Can you go into each of those and how they lead to each other in that process?

Mary Wiley: We always begin with praying. In my second grade classroom, if you forget, they will remind you. So we pray and ask God to help us understand because we are reading a Bible that was written millennia ago. It is an ancient Near Eastern culture that is so different from ours and so we do need the help of the Spirit to help us understand.

So we pray, then we read and we re-read. I read first and then they read behind me or we'll flip-flop that sometimes. Let them read and then I read because there is such a benefit to having kids read God's Word out loud in their sweet little voices. As soon as they can read, we start reading full text Bibles because I want them to know that it is something they can do both at church, both at our dinner table, and in their home if they're the only one who cares about the Bible.

We read and we re-read and we always say we read first so that we understand and then we read second to make sure we actually understood. Then we ask and answer. That's what we've been talking so much about here is we ask as many questions of the text as we can. We answer those by reading text around the text we're reading. If there are questions that we don't know the answer to, we go track down a pastor or we'll look at a commentary online to help us answer those questions.

Then after we've read and we've re-read and we've asked and we've answered, we pray again and we pray through that passage. We are of course thanking God for what we've learned in the passage, but we're specifically going through the high points of what we've learned and thanking God for those particular things, asking God to make the character that we see in that text true of us, asking God to help us understand the redemptive narrative that we see in that text in our lives today. What I hope that that is doing is helping kids take even the narratives that seem long ago and divorced from their life to help them see that God is teaching them through those moments and He's teaching them how to respond to Him in the work of prayer as well.

Dr. Danny Huerta: There's a pattern to this that is helpful for kids. Expand on that. Why is this helpful developmentally and just learning-wise for kids? I think it's important to draw that out so that we understand the why behind this good template to work off of.

Mary Wiley: It is easy to remember, it's easy to repeat. It also puts the oneness on the Spirit to teach us rather than kids feeling like they need to put the puzzle pieces together. Developmentally, especially in elementary school, kids are being taught that it is on them, that they need to figure out how to discover knowledge, they need to study. These are helpful details. If my fourth graders aren't studying, they aren't preparing for tests, well they're not going to do well in their local elementary school.

But when it comes to the Bible, we don't want to approach it like we do a textbook because the Bible is alive. It is different from those things they're studying at school. We aren't just studying some subject, we are studying a person and we're not just studying Him as those who are far from Him, but we are in relationship with Him. Helping them draw that differentiation between every other book in the world and the Bible is so helpful to help them know we are meeting with God on every page. He has something to speak to you as you read. You are capable of reading.

Now there are going to be some stories that are very difficult. We started reading through the Bible with my kids last year and we got to Lot and his daughters and I was like, "I had forgotten that I would need to explain this to you and I don't have words."

Rebecca St. James: Can you speak to that? Because I think it is scary for parents to dive in especially on some of those books of the Bible.

Mary Wiley: What I've learned is that kids are being exposed to difficult stories even the most protected children are hearing something that was on the news. They're hearing adults talk about things that are happening in the world. So even in those brief moments, they're realizing that everything isn't perfect. We want to be careful to tell the truth to our children in a way that they can understand.

So in a situation where you're talking about David and Bathsheba or Lot and his daughters or Dinah, we've read those stories and very carefully talked about what is happening. Bathsheba we may say, "Hey, David took a wife that is not his and that's not okay. His actions were not okay because God set up marriage to be between one woman and one man."

Helping them in age-appropriate ways without whitewashing the story because I remember as probably a 14-year-old my parents had really been careful with what they allowed me to have access to and I remember feeling somewhat lied to almost where it was like, "Wait, all of these things are happening in the Bible and I didn't know." But we help kids understand the difference between the Bible describing what is happening and prescribing what should be happening. Helping them see that these are instances of the fall, that these moments are things that God did not intend in His perfect plan to be true but that sin entered the world and really just broke everything. Not outside of God's sovereignty, not outside of His knowledge, that God had already prepared an answer for those things certainly, but that God doesn't shy away from the hard things, the real things. The suffering of the world is a message they need to hear because as they grow they're going to be exposed more and more to just the suffering of the world.

We have so much access to the difficulties across the world, access that I didn't even have as a child to know what genocide is happening in Africa, to know what countries are struggling to find food, all these difficult things. We want them to know that God has an answer for that, that God is not ignorant of those things happening and that He has given us tools in His Word to know Him and to know what His hope is for the evil in the world.

Dr. Danny Huerta: There's so much opportunity there and in the busy schedules and the busyness it takes awareness of this and also an intentionality, a valuing of this, just saying, "Hey, we need to do this." This framework, since it begins with prayer, I think it's key to point out that brain scientists have found that that's a pathway to secure attachment. The pieces in our brain, the pathways in our brain that are in charge of securely attaching to other people, that means knowing that we can be in conflict, we can be in difficult space and you're still going to love me, that pathway is fired up when we pray.

God designed it that way so that we could have a secure attachment with Him. The way we treat God in our prayer life is the way we're going to treat other people. Maybe talking about that in your own life, "Hey, when I'm doing well in my conversation with my Heavenly Father, it helps me treat people in this way." Pointing that out for them because most of the time most kids, unless there's a severe mental health disorder, they want to have a good relationship with people around them. Kids are trying to find different ways to do that and it's sometimes not the best, but they want to have a good relationship, they want to be loved and they're seeking that.

So it begins with prayer. If you want to begin to have good healthy relationships, it begins with that and then the read and re-read. That takes a child into this place of learning to read a situation and then re-read it. There's always something more there in a relational context and sometimes you need to come back to it and say, "Hey, can you tell me more?" It gives them that habit and then the asking and answering, the habit of asking questions and the back-and-forth in conversation with people that sets the framework for that where you ask questions and you're curious about them just like you're curious about your Heavenly Father. You seek answers and then as a family you're asking questions and answering and having that back-and-forth and then praying again at the end showing that secure attachment, that there's a response, a warm response towards that, a trusting response.

It shows a framework for relationship in general and then to go into these difficult stories showing the messiness of it all. I think the part that a parent would be confused about, I know when people bring up, "What's age-appropriate?" when we say read it in an age-appropriate way, how can a parent find out what is age-appropriate for my kids? Is that fleshed out in your book? Are there places that you've gone to think through what is an age-appropriate way to distill big, big concepts that could be scary or could be too big to handle at that age?

Mary Wiley: That's a great question. One of my favorite resources is the levels of biblical learning Lifeway Kids has produced that. I believe it is free on their website. It is one of the most helpful guides as far as what should a 3-year-old be learning about God, what should a 7-year-old be learning about His church, about Christ, about the Holy Spirit, about the crucifixion. So that is a place to start.

Discovering the Bible is really built for those early readers, so those who are second grade and up. I've had churches use it with fifth graders, I've had churches use it in youth group, but definitely those who are already reading. Then there are guides as far as which stories to approach. So there's a 52-week guide within the book, all of those are going to be age-appropriate stories, easy to talk about with your kids. But there are also plans that expand beyond those 52 so if you wanted to read the Bible in the year there's a plan to make those differences to read the in-between pieces between those 52 weeks of planning.

In so many ways, what I thought was true about my kids is that they would only ask the hard questions of difficult stories. What I realized as we read those together is that so often they're not actually asking the question I thought they would be asking, they're asking about the God behind it. So that's a very age-appropriate way to cover the stories no matter what age you're faced with is you can paraphrase certainly. There are lots of resources that can help you do that. You can read a full text Bible if they're readers, if they can sit that long. Those are really helpful tools that move through the story quickly that are not going to sit in the difficulty and often where scripture places the emphasis is also where kids are going to place the emphasis and scripture is always pointing to Christ, always pointing to the character of God. Helping them ask that question first will also guide the conversation in the right direction. So if you read a difficult story, immediately saying, "What does this tell us about God? What am I seeing is true of the Father? Who is Jesus in this passage?" will help really frame the conversation from there.

Rebecca St. James: Mary, in a few minutes we want to move to a Q&A segment of our show where we have a listener question that we'd love to invite you into. But just quickly to kind of wrap up this segment of the show, I think one of the things that a lot of parents are struggling with is culture is very loud about lies that are just out to destroy our kids, right? The enemy is working through these lies to steal, kill, and destroy. So what are some of the cultural lies that kids are absorbing today that a strong understanding of the Bible can help them to recognize or even challenge?

Mary Wiley: One I see in our local elementary school here in Tennessee is that you are what you do, that you're the sum of your successes or your failures, that you are a baseball player, that you are a successful straight-A student, that you are good at art and that is where your value is. What I hope that the kids that read through the Bible, that use Discovering the Bible do find root in is that their identity is in Christ alone, their value is that of a child of God.

They also hear that the world is falling apart around them and there's nothing they can do, that they are just a part of this grand plan that is all evil and is not going well and they're just along for the ride. I think the Bible preaches a very different story to say that the people of God are to be cultivating a church that looks like heaven, they are to be cultivating a culture that looks more and more like the Kingdom of God, more and more like heaven every single day within their midst. That that's the good gift, the abundant life of Christ.

So I hope that kids realize we don't have to worry, that all the fear that they're served by knowing what's going on in the world is something they don't have to carry because they have a Savior who carries it all for them. They have a Savior who has tasked them with being light to the world. Our culture is very dark, it wants our children to walk in darkness to not know which way is up. And yet we have a Savior who says, "No, no, I have overcome the darkness," and that He can do that for even the smallest of kids.

Dr. Danny Huerta: There's a lot of deception that can take place, a lot of distraction that can take place at every stage of our parenting. So we have to be aware of those and lean into what's in front of us, and that's getting to introduce our kids to Christ and various other discoveries in their life.

Couple more resources I wanted to add to that is Family Reading of Scripture is something we have here at Focus on the Family where you can listen to God's Word out loud as a family and then there are conversation starters there for parents for you to lead in the discussion on that specific character of the Bible. We have Advent and Holy Week as well within that space, Family Reading of Scripture, that'll be in the notes. Then also the Age and Stage resources we have here. One of the developmental pieces that we bring out on what to expect is the spiritual growth of your children from 0 to 18. What to expect there? But then also emotionally, mentally, physically, relationally. Then what to build in the core areas of your concern as parents.

One of them is technology and entertainment where a lot comes in at your kids and into your home and you get to provide boundaries and limits around that and model that as well. Mental health is another one that you can consider within that resource. Then how to grow in the rhythms of the home of a Christian home, how to grow resilience in your home, and then as a parent, how you're transformed at that age of your child's development. So that's mykidsage.com. You can go to that. That'll be in the show notes as well. There are so many resources for you as a parent, you're not alone in this, just know that. The fact that you are listening to this show and then considering how do we bring God's word into our home shows that you are taking that initial step towards being intentional around this and it'll pay dividends for your home, for your kids, for your relationship there as well. So I'm excited to go to the Q&A segment. Rebecca, you want to take us there?

Rebecca St. James: Yes, absolutely. I want to share just a couple things before we do because I think what we've taken away from this time is that from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible is alive. If you're looking for a resource to help your children dive into the Bible and actually build a strong foundation so that they can know God more, then Mary's book, Discovering the Bible: A Kid's Guide to Reading and Understanding God's Word, is just what you need. We'll make it available to you for a gift of any amount in the show notes.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Did you know that on average about 22 children make a salvation decision for Christ every day as a result of the ministry we do here at Focus on the Family?

Rebecca St. James: That's amazing.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Whether it's resources like this one or simply listening to Adventures in Odyssey every week, families are being impacted. When you show your financial support, you're making a huge difference in the world that our children are entering. All this to say, thank you for giving to the ministry and if you can afford an extra $5, $10, $20, $30 when you order the book, you are a part of that world change that we can all see together.

Rebecca St. James: And of course, we have the launch of the Adventures in Odyssey animated feature film coming out in the fall. We're very excited about that and looking forward to the impact that it's going to have on families as well. Lots of great things happening here at Focus on the Family and we're glad that you're part of it. Mary, we'd love to have you a part of our Q&A segment. You interested in joining us for that?

Mary Wiley: Absolutely. Sign me up.

Rebecca St. James: All right. This is our question this week: "Hi, Danny and Rebecca. We have two kids, ages 8 and 13, and I can't believe some of the things that they tell me when they get home from school. Unfortunately, my husband and I can't homeschool, so what are healthy ways to prepare kids to engage with secular ideas that conflict with everything we are teaching them at home? And how can we help our kids stay confident in their faith without becoming judgmental towards their friends who believe differently?"

I really like, I mean I love both of these questions that this parent is asking, but especially the second one about being judgmental. Something came to mind as I was reading this question that it could be a good thing to speak to your kids about having compassion for those kids at school that are dealing with some really tough stuff or ideology. Something like, "Some of your friends aren't being taught right from wrong at home. They're not being taught biblical values, and don't we feel compassion for them that that's not happening in their home?" So in our house, we are trying to encourage a culture not only of right and wrong and knowing truth but also of grace, and I think these are moments where we can really exhibit that. Mary, what would you say to this listener?

Mary Wiley: In our household, we often say you never know what is going on in their home. We hope that that's building compassion, just as you said, Rebecca, that they would identify with those students who may disagree with them, no matter how adamantly they disagree, that they would see in them the opportunity to know Christ, that they would see in them the image of God and want to call that out from them, in them.

They're going to be faced with difficult things because the world is not a place where Christian values are triumphed, right? We are more and more walking towards a culture that is post-Christian. All the research says we've kind of gone beyond where church is a cultural event into people who go to church are kind of weird is really what the world believes now.

I've told my kids, "It's okay that people think you're a little weird. Actually, that's exactly what God called His people to be in the Bible, that they would be set apart, that they would be different." So I hope that my kids hear, "Wow, my parents are proud of me because I look different than all the other kids at school." We talk a lot about going into your school every morning, whether my husband or I take them to school, as they get out of the car we say, "Show the love of Jesus today. You might be the only light they see."

Helping kids know you're walking into a mission field, you're walking into a place where it is likely you're going to rub up against ideas that are in opposition to what we believe the Bible says to be true. That's okay and it is an opportunity. It's not a sadness, it's not something to hide, it's an opportunity to tell the truth in a moment when lots of people are being told lies. Whether that be at recess as someone's coming down the slide and loving them well and telling them the truth, or it's in a science class when maybe evolution or some other thing is being taught and they're able to say, "Here's what I believe the Bible actually says." Teaching them to do so in a way that's non-combative, that is non-threatened, that they don't have to say, "Well, here are all the reasons why I believe that the Bible is right," but it's just, "This is what I believe the Bible says is true," in a very kind, non-judgmental way. This is the way I'm going to live, that's how I'm going to stake my life. It is going to pay dividends in their life going forward because there's always going to be opposition.

We actually practice that in our house. We roleplay. I'll say, "Okay, someone's going to say this today. How are you going to respond?" We do this a lot with brother and sister conflict. "Okay, Addy is going to say this and it's going to make you mad, but she's four, so how are you going to respond?" Then they respond back because practice really does make permanent. Maybe not perfect, but it does make permanent. It begins to be what is true of our children as they're out in the world.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Practicing those, being prepared for those moments. Stacy, thank you so much for trusting us. These are impactful ages, ages where there can be a lot of insecurity for your 8 and 13-year-old as they're walking into public places. What's been shared by Mary and by Rebecca, being able to be weird takes a ton of confidence, being able to have grace takes a lot of courage. These are big callouts for your kids and worthwhile. To be distinct, to have that sense of self-confidence is freeing for them.

The more you guys read the Bible, the more it helps them know how to respond. I'm thinking of 1 Peter 3, verse 14. It says, "Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for reason for the hope that is in you." It says, "yet do it with gentleness and respect." So that's that meekness, strength under control, having a good conscience so that when you are slandered those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

In this one, it's really talking about equipping your kids to be okay disagreeing and in that disagreement of beliefs there can also be a tremendous amount of love and care for the other person. Have them learn that the idea that another person has is a very real idea and you can say, "Here's what I believe and why I believe it." You're bringing your answer but you're allowing for them to also have an idea and a belief system and you're not putting down the stake that they need to believe exactly like you or something's been lost there. You can articulate yours with love and in that ownership of your faith, you impact them in a big way. Teaching your kids to do that and helping them understand the why they believe what they believe, the practicing of that is great.

Another thing that's come up on this show that we just talked about is being able to bring up the hard questions and discuss those and have honest discussions about faith doubts. Those things are so important for your kids as things come up for them so that they can know that it's okay to have those moments of doubt. Maybe ask your kids, Stacy, "What has surprised you about who God is as you discover that in scripture? What has confused you? What do you hear Him saying to you day in and day out?" Help them learn that there's a conversation that's ongoing that they can listen in to throughout their day. As they do that and as they impart that to other kids, there may be rejection but there's always a safe place to come home and kind of talk through that. Stacy, I hope this gives you some initial ideas of how to respond to your kids, how to prepare them. You've asked the right question as you're thinking through the different influences that can come at this stage.

Rebecca St. James: Thank you so much for your question, Stacy, and we are going to send you Danny's wonderful book, Seven Traits of Effective Parenting, as our way of saying thanks for participating in the show. If you have a situation in your family that you'd like us to speak into, please do reach out and send an email or a voicemail by clicking on the show notes. We cannot wait to hear from you. Mary, it's been great to have you on the show. We're grateful for the work God is doing through you and in you and we pray He continues to bless what you're sharing. Thanks for being a part of Practice Makes Parent with us.

Mary Wiley: Thank you.

Rebecca St. James: Well, next week we're going to honor dads in preparation for Father's Day. We'll be talking with Jeff Hamilton of Dad Academy about the important role men play in the lives of their children.

Dr. Danny Huerta: Yes, they do. This is one every man should hear. So make sure you forward the link to the show over to your husband, your brother, and all the men in your small group at church or guys that you know around you. I'm Dr. Danny Huerta.

Rebecca St. James: And I'm Rebecca St. James. Join us next time for more tips for transforming your parenting on Practice Makes Parent.

Guest (Male): Being a dad isn't always easy, but it's one of life's greatest callings. In a new seasonal podcast from Focus on the Family, Legacy of Courage, we inspire fathers with real stories from dads in every stage of parenting. You'll hear episodes about parenting with discipline and consistency and reflections on those funny, tender moments we all experience. You'll hear how you can build a lasting legacy of faith when you listen to Legacy of Courage. You'll find it at celebratingfathers.com.