Parent Compass Radio

Wendy Geikema: I think it's given me a deeper empathy for pain and for people suffering because you just know you've walked through it. Even if I haven't gone through your pain, pain understands pain. It's really deepened my faith because I just have a sense of God being with me.

Natalie Jones: Welcome to Parent Compass. I'm Natalie Jones, and today we have a critical topic that likely each one of us knows someone who could desperately need this information. Our guest, Wendy Geikema, while a fabulous leadership coach who empowers business and nonprofits to grow their people and organizations, she has also done the hard thing in writing a book about their heartbreaking experience in order to help the rest of us.

Unexpectedly, she and her husband Jeff lost their wonderful son Matt to suicide in February of 2018. Her book, From Heartache to Hope: Navigating Choices in Your Suicide Loss Journey, is an important resource for those in heartache. I'm so glad you're here, Wendy, and that you're willing to tell your story, that you've written this book so that you could help people. But I would love to hear from you why did you write this book?

Wendy Geikema: First of all, it's great to be here with you. It really felt like an act of love and obedience to the Lord. I felt like He put it on my heart. I was actually walking—I had a friend whose husband unexpectedly died by suicide, and in trying to help her, I was looking for resources that both gave practical wisdom but also really pointed people to Scripture and to the truth that's in the Word. I couldn't find anything, and I felt the Lord say, "You're supposed to write it." So that's what I did.

Natalie Jones: You and I go way back, as well as your husband Jeff. We were in graduate school together, studying hard and working hard, and then we played with our families at camp for many a year. Great memories. Our kids ran around together. So I knew Matt, and he was a very fabulous young man, and we miss him. We're so grateful that you're making a difference to help people in this heartache and hardship. As I mentioned, this was unexpected. Isn't that true?

Wendy Geikema: We had no idea. We were totally blindsided by it. It just came—we got the phone call and he was unresponsive. He was a student at Texas A&M University about to graduate. We were driving to the university to figure out what was going on, and we got a phone call from the College Station Police. They said, "Come to the police station," and that's when we just knew because if he was in the hospital, you'd go to the hospital. If he was okay, you'd go to his apartment. But we just knew. So that was a hard trip, a hard phone call.

Natalie Jones: I can't imagine. Of course, I was at Matt's funeral and you spoke. My husband said it was one of the greatest talks he's ever heard. What did you say then?

Wendy Geikema: Well, I talked about—this also felt like it came from the Lord, what I was supposed to say. It was so powerful. I talked out of 1 Thessalonians 4 where it talks about how we don't grieve as those without hope. I felt the Lord say I'm supposed to talk about this idea of grieving with hope.

I talked about the depth of the grief, and it's so raw and painful and searing, and yet the hope that's certain. Matt's hope, as I said then, has a name. His name is Jesus. I am going to be with Matt in eternity, and I stand on that. So the grief and the depth of it is real, but the hope is certain.

Natalie Jones: That's so true. I think my husband and I were thinking we didn't even know that verse. It was a packed room of people that you hope will trust in the Lord and that comes out of situations like that.

I remember the night before the funeral, I was praying for you, of course. I was asleep and kind of halfway awake or halfway asleep, and I had this very clear picture. I've never seen anything specifically like this before. I just saw all these angels, all these angels fluttering into the corner of the church.

You know how the Lord tells you what you're seeing? It was just so fun to me to know that, and then also I saw an angel. I was taken next to your bed. You were there in bed, and here was this big angel with his arms crossed standing like a guard right with his back against the wall. He was giant, but more like seven feet or so, which I think I've heard biblically that's how tall they are. I've never seen angels, and that was it. He had the wings and they were folded behind him. I know I told you, but when I mentioned it to you again just recently, you said that whole year was a blur.

Wendy Geikema: The nights were especially hard. So the fact that the Lord saw me in that pain—the nights felt so dark and hard, and that the Lord's angels were watching over me—it just makes me feel the love of Christ.

What is that verse on angels? I looked it up: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister to those who will inherit salvation?" So they're here to help us. They're sent by God. We're not to worship them, but that is such an encouraging thing to hear you say that.

Natalie Jones: We want to talk about how your book helps people that have had this experience. Your book talks about the choices that you make in loss. What would you say about the choices in the midst of heartache?

Wendy Geikema: It's interesting because you didn't have a choice that someone you loved died by suicide. You don't. That was out of your control. But you do have a choice in how you respond.

The book outlines different choices that we make. The first one I remember—this was the first day I made this one—was am I going to turn toward the Lord or away from Him? For me, it was like I felt if I turned my back on Him, there was no hope. I wasn't going to be able to get through this. So I was like, "Well, I'm going to turn to the Lord." So that was my first choice.

You're not even aware you're making all these choices. Then other things come up, and I've now walked with parents and others who have lost people to suicide, so I've become very aware of these. You're going to grapple with doubts. You grapple with "Is God still good?" What am I going to choose to believe about God?

You grapple with "Why?" Do I have to understand why? Will I ever understand why? You grapple with anger, shame, regret. "Oh, if only I had done this or that." You grapple with people saying things to you, and they're not always true or even biblically correct. So you have to choose how you're going to handle that. How am I going to handle Matt's birthday or his heaven day?

There are a lot of choices, and I wanted to help people navigate those because you don't realize that you're making these choices. I really didn't want my life to be defined by this for the rest of my life. I felt like God is so big and so amazing that He's going to help me through these. Now I want to help other people so that they realize that God provides hope through all the chaos and the pain and the grief. He can help you make these choices.

Natalie Jones: How did you deal with that question of "Why?" plus the other issues?

Wendy Geikema: "Why" is such a sticking point for folks. As I sought the Lord, He really gave me a sense that there are some factors at play. There are mental health issues. There's free will; Matt had free will.

There's also a spiritual battle. The enemy is prowling like a roaring lion seeking to devour whoever he can. So you take all of that together, and that for me was enough of a "Why." Matt also had a personal situation; tragically, his girlfriend was breaking up with him. We didn't know that.

I put all that together and go, "That's why." That's good enough for me to know. I will never fully know. I'll never know what was going on in his mind and why he did this, but that's good enough for me to know. I'm going to let that sit with the Lord and trust that I don't need to know anymore because at this point, it's not knowable.

So I just had to surrender my need to have 100% certainty and just say, "Lord, this is Yours. You've given me enough that I'm okay. This is all I'm going to get." I felt like "Why" wasn't the best question then. It was, "What should I do? How should I handle it? What's the next step that's best for me, Lord?" I could stew in that "Why" and just spin in it for a long time. I just didn't feel like that was what was going to be what God's best was for me.

Natalie Jones: You mentioned how people came up to you and said the wrong thing. How did people actually help you walk through this and help you walk through the grief and the time?

Wendy Geikema: Healing with others and the help of others is so important. Honestly, my husband and I have talked about this. The best, easiest thing for someone—because people don't know what to say to you when you've lost someone and they're like, "Oh, I don't know what to say"—so sometimes they avoid you or they don't.

The best thing was when people just said, "I'm so sorry," and gave you a hug or prayed over you or just a simple act of love. But we had people who just came alongside us and they grocery shopped for us because I remember the first time I went to the grocery store, I sobbed because I could see all Matt's foods that he loved to eat. So I couldn't even finish going to the grocery store.

People brought us food. They gave family members rides. Just really practical things. Matt's car—we had a family friend help us donate that to a ministry that needed a car because we just didn't want his car. People just came along in really practical ways and helped us, or they would send verses or different ways just to say, "I'm praying for you." That was an encouragement.

Later on, I found other women who had lost children and we would get together and talk, and that was very healing because we could relate in ways that other people couldn't. That really was very healing for me. The most important thing is to not avoid and ignore that person who's gone through loss.

Our missions pastor at our old church used to say Jesus moved in the direction of people in need. I think that's really when we're trying to figure out what to do. You don't have to say the perfect thing. You're not going to say the thing that makes it all better, but just by acknowledging the loss and their pain, that makes the person feel seen. Ignoring it just feels odd when you know the other person knows that you've had a loss.

The Bible tells us to follow Christ, be like Christ. How He does that is He goes to people in need. Likewise, that's a huge thing. Some people think making a lot of money is great, or fame and fortune, but what's really what Jesus did and what Jesus wants us to do is reach out and help those who are hurting.

Honestly, the best was when people would just jump in and be like, "I'm bringing you dinner." When people would say, "How can I help?" I mean, I've had the biggest loss of my life. I don't know what I need. But if you would say to me, "I'm going to go to the grocery store for you," great. That would be amazing. I would love that.

Natalie Jones: What have you learned about God in this experience?

Wendy Geikema: So much. I really felt like I was walking deeply with the Lord before this, but I have learned He is so faithful. He is so faithful. I can trust Him. I could trust Him with my feelings because I had to learn if I just let my feelings rule my day, I would have been tossed and turned.

There were a lot of days I would just say, "Lord, here's what I'm feeling," and I would tell Him because I'm like, "I'm feeling this and this is what's going through my mind and what do You want for me? What do You want me to think? What do You want me to feel? What do You want me to focus on?"

He would give me a nudge or a sense of something and it would just shift me. So I could trust Him with my emotions. I could trust Him with my heart. His Word guided me, especially at night during those hard nights. He would remind me of something with His Word. A verse that I'd memorized would come to my mind and it would be such comfort.

He cares for me. I can trust Him. He still has plans for me. This wasn't Him up in heaven going, "Oh wow, Matt's gone. Wendy's life is—I can't do anything else with her." He has plans and purposes for me, and I really feel passionately about helping others to give them that same hope. So it's really deepened my walk with Him.

Natalie Jones: I love how you said it caused a shift when you were asking the Lord, "I'm feeling this way, I'm feeling that way, how should I feel? Help me." I've noticed that myself. The verse "Take all my thoughts and make them obedient to Christ." I remember sometimes I'll go, "Okay, Lord, this wasn't bothering me yesterday. Why is it bothering me today?" And He kind of shifts it. I wonder about it, like how did You take away what was concerning me so much? But He will, and we just keep praying and keep walking forward.

Wendy Geikema: It's so true. We talked earlier about "Why," and I'd asked Him to let me—I don't want to—I feel like I've got it. Would You just help me not to focus on this? And He did. He just made it so that that wasn't something that was consuming me.

Natalie Jones: Do people that commit suicide go to heaven or is that a sin like an unpardonable sin? Did someone ever say that to you?

Wendy Geikema: People have said lots of things to me and I have been asked that because they've been taught that or heard that. I actually will say no, suicide is not the unpardonable sin. We are all sinners. We all have sinned in different ways, and there is no place in Scripture that says we are defined by our last act on earth.

Somebody could have died gossiping or in gluttony or whatever their challenge is, and that doesn't mean that they're not going to heaven. He says that if you confess that I'm Lord and believe in your heart that I've been raised from the dead, you'll be saved. That's it. That's what it is. There's nothing in Scripture about suicide.

So I actually, when people would say that to me, actually would be pretty clear. I was like, "Yeah, I'm not going to receive that because that's actually not true." This goes back to the book. I want people to go to the Scripture for truth, not what you heard as a kid or even what your church said when you were growing up or what your friend who goes to church said. Let's go to what does the Lord say, because that's the source of truth.

Natalie Jones: Help us with what particular Scriptures might have helped you through the journey.

Wendy Geikema: Psalm 27 says at the end, "I would have despaired unless I believed I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Be strong and let your heart take courage; wait on the Lord." That really encouraged me to just wait. That described me. I would have despaired unless I believed I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. I felt like those words were written to me.

2 Corinthians 4:17 and 18 talks about how momentary light affliction is creating for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison. We're looking at what is not seen, which is eternal, rather than what is seen, which is temporal. That really encouraged me to just remind myself that Matt was in heaven and that's for eternity. I'm going to be with my son for eternity.

The fact that I'm not with him now—yeah, I'm not happy about it. I miss him. I think about him. I am sad. This is not easy. But in the span of my eternity with the Lord, it is momentary light affliction. So it just helps me shift my priorities to be not on what is temporal. This earth and my life here is temporal, but my life with the Lord, that's eternal.

Natalie Jones: Besides grief, what were other emotions that you had to deal with?

Wendy Geikema: So many. You're grieving for yourself, you grieve for your husband, I grieved for my children, his brothers. Everybody navigates grief differently. There is anger because you're angry. You thought this was the best solution, and I know he didn't think that, but at the time he just had a moment where he wasn't thinking clearly.

There's anger because suicide is like emotional shrapnel that goes through your family. Not only are you going on vacation now as a family of four, you're going out to dinner as a family of four. We used to be a family of five. Christmas felt different or Thanksgiving because you don't have everybody around the table. There were so many things like that that were changed because they weren't around.

Anger, regret. We were going to go visit him the next weekend. Would that have made a difference? Should we have gone? I don't know. Would he have told us? Probably not. So there's regret.

There's shame too. People say things to you that really aren't kind. So there's that. There's just a lot obviously, just all the forms of sadness where you're grieving. You're sad for him, you're sad for yourself, you're sad for what could have been and isn't, what will never be. I will never see him get married, have children, all those things.

I had to become—I had to make peace with the fact that God meets me in the "what is," not in the "what if." So I don't know what Matt's life would have been, but I have to trust that God's going to meet me as I deal with it right now instead of painting myself a picture of all that might have happened.

Natalie Jones: Was forgiveness part of the walk through this?

Wendy Geikema: Yes, it really has been, and that has only been possible by the power of the Lord, really. I had—the day it happened, we're at the police station in Texas A&M, and his girlfriend comes. She's like, "Oh, this is my fault. He was breaking up with me." I just knew in that moment in my heart I had a choice. I could really make her life miserable or I could forgive her.

I just felt the overwhelming like I have to forgive her. I said, "I forgive you. This is not your fault. People break up with each other all the time and they don't do this." It's happened to me, I think it's happened to lots of people. I said, "It's not your fault," and I shared the Gospel with her because I just—this is the truth, this is what I believe. I felt like that was what God wanted me to do in that moment.

So I had to forgive her in that moment, and I've also had to forgive Matt for the impact it's had on our family, not just in the moment, but in so many ways that still come up. Or how situations are different or the impact it's had on his brothers. I've had to forgive him, and that's really only been possible by the Lord.

Natalie Jones: How is your life different before and after Matt's passing?

Wendy Geikema: It feels very different. I feel much more connected to heaven. It says we are citizens of heaven, and that's where my son is. I think about it more. I feel more connected. I'm more aware of the fact that I'm not going to be on this earth forever. I'm going to be in heaven. So it's become more of a reality to me.

I think it's given me a deeper empathy for pain and for people suffering because you just know you've walked through it. Even if I haven't gone through your pain, pain understands pain. If I've been through pain and deep pain, I can understand and enter into other people's pain more deeply. So I think it's just given me more empathy.

It's really deepened my faith because I just have a sense of He is with me and whatever happens—and I've had some other really hard things—and God is with me. That verse where it says, "Never will I leave you or forsake you," I just cling to that. It encourages me and comforts me in other hard things that I have to walk through.

Natalie Jones: What would you want others to know as they come alongside someone who has a suicide loss?

Wendy Geikema: Unfortunately, it feels like an epidemic. There's just so many people. Suicide is epidemic, depression is epidemic. I actually have multiple in my appendices, I have multiple resources on how to come alongside somebody, how to help yourself, because I really do feel strongly about this.

But really, as we talked, it's moving in the direction of people in need. So don't avoid. People feel uncomfortable and so they don't know what to say, so they say nothing or they don't reach out. I think it's better to reach out and just show love and listen.

A lot of times people will think, "Oh, you're not going to want to talk about Matt." Well, actually, I do. He's my son. I've been talking about him and thinking about him every day he's been alive. It feels odd to now suddenly we don't talk about him. So to just let that person who's lost—let them talk and listen, but not try to fix. Not try to tell them how to feel. Not try to let your discomfort drive things because sometimes the friend who's trying to help, they're really uncomfortable with emotion.

If they're trying to tell you how to feel or telling you, "Oh, it'll all get better," well, it does, but you actually haven't walked this path. Just encourage them with Scripture. When people would give me Scripture, I could stand on that. "His mercies are new every morning." Okay, I can stand on that. I can believe that.

I think praying over people was really helpful and also just being that presence not just the first month. This is a marathon. It is not a sprint. That person who's lost someone to suicide, they're going to need support for a long time. Just to continue to check in periodically. People like you, they remember Matt's heaven day, the day he passed. I appreciate that. You feel seen. To just let them know, "Hey, I still remember. I'm still here for you. I still care." That's really helpful because unfortunately, that first week is hell. It's horrible. It's the worst week of your life. You're planning the service, you're having to write an obituary, you're having to do all this horrible stuff. But then the family goes away or the people go back to work, and you're there. So you need support over the long haul.

Natalie Jones: What would you say to a newly bereaved person who's just lost someone?

Wendy Geikema: First of all, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry because it is so hard. I would really encourage them to feel all their feelings. You're going to feel anger, you're going to cry, you're going to feel everything. To feel it and to name it and to take it to the Lord because He cares and He can handle it. He's big enough to handle it.

The Psalms are full of David's and others' really deep, hard emotions. So I just encourage them to turn to the Lord. I also encourage people to get counseling as soon as possible. A good Christian counselor who can really help you in your grief because that made a huge difference for not just for me, but for every member of my family.

Find a support group. GriefShare is a great resource. There are others that are out there. I found friends who had lost people. If you try to heal by yourself, it's hard. Then we become vulnerable to the enemy's attacks because he wants to isolate us. So you're going to want to isolate yourself, but reach out. Reach out to other people, find some safe people that you can trust that can help you navigate through this because it's too big to do on your own.

Natalie Jones: Holidays. Talk to me. Those must be really tough for the bereaved. Did you do something practical to try to make it better?

Wendy Geikema: It was hard. For our first multiple Christmases, we couldn't even be in our house. We had to get away, we had to go somewhere else because there were too many memories. Same thing with Thanksgiving. It was too much. There were too many memories of Matt. We ended up actually moving, and that helped because we didn't have memories of Matt and Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter in our new place. So that was helpful, but obviously not practical for everyone.

I think it's really you have to give yourself grace that there's no right way to do a holiday or do a birthday. That's another hard day. Or a heaven day. At least I have happy memories of holidays and birthdays. The heaven day I really don't have any great memories, but it comes around every year.

It's giving yourself grace to talk to the Lord, ask Him what do I need, what would be helpful. I don't put pressure on myself that it has to be some amazing thing. Some years, Matt liked donuts. Some years, I'm like, "Let's go have some Krispy Kremes." Matt loved to learn, and some years I've taken a little class or something on his heaven day.

When it comes to holidays, we really just try to remember him and honor his memory and appreciate the part he was part of our lives while we still grieve with hope. You said it's difficult, like there's the phrase "to hell and back," but you are back. What are the things that you would say as far as healing that you are implementing or just know in your heart? How have you healed?

Wendy Geikema: There are so many ways, and certainly the Lord. I wouldn't be here today, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't for the Lord Jesus Christ. His Word has comforted me, it has encouraged me, it's pointed me toward truth. That's one of the things I want to do in the book is just point people toward His Word.

I've tried to really connect with my emotions. I don't try to stuff them or pretend they're not there. I name them, I feel them, I journal them. I've talked to counselors about them. But I've also really talked to the Lord and done a lot of prayer. "What do You want me to do? What's next? How do You want me to handle this? What do You want me to say to this person? What should I do?"

To try to do those things that I know I need. Sometimes people will say, "You should do this or you should do that." It's like, no, because that's actually not going to be helpful for me. So I'm not going to do that. It's connecting with yourself and what you think you really need in that moment, which is hard.

Community. Being connected with other believers who have gone through this has really helped. Now, Jeff and I are part of a ministry called While We're Waiting, and we facilitate retreats for people that have experienced child loss through suicide. That's been healing because you're able—2 Corinthians 1 talks about how we comfort others with the comfort we ourselves have received. Now being able to now help other people, it's been healing for me. That organization is While We're Waiting, which what a great name. They have free retreats for parents who have lost a child and specific ones additionally for suicide. Helping others has been healing.

Natalie Jones: I love that you are healed. I see you, I know you. I love that you've walked through and the Lord has brought you out to the other side. I love that you are prayerfully, with humility, writing the book so that others can likewise be healed. So we encourage everyone they're going to want to buy the book. Where can they get this wonderful book?

Wendy Geikema: It's available on Amazon. There's a paperback and then also an ebook. If people want to connect with me, it's CoachWendy.com. There's a page with the book on there as well.

Natalie Jones: I know that everyone needs to get this book because we know somebody. This is something we can do. This is how we can help. This is one of these good things we can do for somebody that's hurting. You've poured your heart into this book so that people could be helped, and what we can do then is buy the book and give it to someone in need. We appreciate you doing that. Would you pray for us? Pray for the people watching.

Wendy Geikema: Let's close in prayer. Heavenly Father, Lord, we love You. Lord, You are a good, good God, and Your glory is over all the earth. Father, Your love for each person who is going to be listening to this, Your love is so deep. Nothing can separate us from Your love that is in Christ Jesus.

Father, I pray that as the people who are listening and watching this, Father, as they are going through their hard things, Father, that You would surround them with Your love, Your care, Your comfort. Father, may they grieve with hope. May they find and stand on that certain rock of Your truth and Your love. May Your people come around and surround them. Father, may they be pointed toward truth and love in their healing.

Father, I pray that You will do exceedingly and abundantly more than they can ask or imagine according to the power that is at work within them. Lord, for Your glory, we pray all these things in Christ's name. Amen.

Natalie Jones: I'm so glad and grateful that you were here. Thank you.