Out of Zion

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, welcome back to our episode on Jews and Christians learning to relate. We have a special treat today as we are going to be interviewing a pioneer in Jewish-Christian relations from an Orthodox Jewish perspective. So, please stay with us.

Guest (Male): Welcome to the Israel Answers series, connecting Israel, the Bible, and you. Join Susan Michael as she explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective to equip the Christian world with a balanced biblical response. Be sure to subscribe for future episodes, which will ignite your faith and bring the Bible to life in your everyday world. Now, let’s join Susan with your Israel Answers.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, as I said, we have a special friend with us. He's in Israel, an Orthodox Jewish proponent of Jewish-Christian relations. He's given decades to this, and there's so much that we're going to be able to learn from him and from his story today. So, I'd like to welcome Jonathan Feldstein for being with us. Thank you, Jonathan, for joining us today.

Jonathan Feldstein: It's really my privilege, Susan. Thank you for hosting me.

Dr. Susan Michael: So, let me share just a little bit about your background. You are the president and CEO of the Genesis 123 Foundation. I don't think I have to explain to my audience what Genesis 12:3 says, but it is God's promise to Abraham that a nation of descendants would be a blessing to the world. That is the name of your foundation, and through that foundation, you are doing a lot of activities to bring Jews and Christians together and to see that blessing realized.

You also have your own podcast called Inspiration from Zion, not to be confused with Out of Zion, which we're on today. Your podcast is also on the Charisma Podcast Network. So, we'll link to it in today's show notes so that those who would like to can listen to your podcast and learn more from you even after today. Jonathan, share with us first a little bit about your background and if there was anything in your upbringing or your background that maybe prepared you for the work that you're so passionate about in developing Jewish-Christian relations.

Jonathan Feldstein: You've got my heart racing. Well, as you mentioned, I'm an Orthodox Jew, but I didn't grow up as an Orthodox Jew. I grew up with a very secular Jewish mother and a very secular Israeli Jewish father. Immediately, what prepared me is that my father gave me a name he could never pronounce because he had an accent till the day he died. So, he always called me Jonathan. Whether he was telling me to go do my homework or rake the leaves or shovel the snow, it was from an Israeli intonation. That was one of the things that led me here.

I'll be honest. Growing up in a secular background in New Jersey, I can't think of anything that would have ever touched me. When I went away to college, I went to Emory. It was often my first time meeting and engaging real Christians, and in many cases, I was the first Jew that many people were meeting. The only thing that I would say maybe prepared me is both my mother and my father were very open-minded people, and I inherited that from them. Me being able to engage people where they are and learn from them as compared to saying you're different and therefore I want nothing to do with you. But I certainly was not on any page. It was all a God thing as to how I got connected between Jewish-Christian relations.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, why don't you tell us that story? Because something happened, a very specific event in time in your life where you felt a call to this.

Jonathan Feldstein: I still have the bruise on my shoulder from where God tapped me and said you're to build bridges between Jews and Christians. When I finished college, I worked as the information officer at the Israeli Consulate in Atlanta. In an academic setting, you're still very much in a bubble. But when I was working this first professional job in the late 1980s, I was traveling all over the Southeast speaking about Israel.

It was during what was then called the Intifada. Now it was the first Intifada. But I was driving around all over the Southeast, occasionally hopping on a plane and going to engage people with pro-Israel advocacy and trying to share the truth. It wasn't so much on a religious basis until one day a very tall, thin, distinguished Black gentleman named Bill Cherry—and I always have to say his name because I'm hoping and praying someone will find him and bring my angel to me—picked me up at my apartment and drove me to Cleveland, Tennessee.

I never knew there was a Cleveland, Tennessee. I didn't know that there was a Church of God housed in Cleveland, Tennessee. I was going to speak in my very first pro-Israel Christian event in a church. I had never been in a church before. I walked in. I always say if you could put a USB port in my head, you could still download the pictures. It's that vivid to me.

I saw Christians wearing blue and white costumes, dancing Israeli folk dances, singing Hebrew songs. Honestly, Susan, I had no idea why Christians would care about Israel and the Jewish people, much less be celebrating. I don't remember what I said, but as I just said to you, that's where God gave me a very firm tap on the shoulder. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand what he wanted from me, but I clearly understood that this was my calling. It took a while to really have the rubber hit the road, but it's been my passion.

It's honestly something that I absolutely love, which is an important qualification because even if I didn't, if God calls you to do it, you still have to do it. But in this case, I am enriched because of it.

Dr. Susan Michael: Jonathan, if I can ask you about one thing that you just said. You said this was the first time you'd been in a church. This is one of the things that a lot of our Evangelical Christians don't know, is that there is a little fear and trepidation in Jewish people of even entering a church. It's because of the history, because of things that were done in the name of the church centuries ago. I've heard others say this, that they remember that first church that they went into because it was like being very, very brave and stepping over a threshold. Do you want to add anything? I'm putting words in your mouth there. How would you describe that?

Jonathan Feldstein: I didn't think of it as so much brave as just me doing my job at that time. But I will say this. More than fear and trepidation, which there is, we carry a lot of baggage with us. You know that historically, religiously, and going back centuries. I would add to what you said by mentioning that there's even a prohibition. Today, I freely go into churches, and I will participate alongside my Christian friends in worship, and where things are relevant to me, that's great. Where they're not, that's also fine.

But I get a lot of pushback. I will add this. In my brand of building bridges, it's not sufficient just to make relationships with Christians as a one-way street. I always come back from my trips posting on my social media, and people will tell me they look at me with three raised eyebrows. What are you doing? What are you doing at these conventions? What are you doing speaking in churches? You're not supposed to go into churches. I talk about why that was and why that isn't anymore or for my perspective. I feel that an equal part of my calling is to break down the barriers that we as Jews have.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, I've spoken to a lot of Jewish audiences, and they always want to know who are Evangelical Christians and what do you believe and why do you support Israel? I've given the same talk over and over and over. But one of my observations is that most of them have never even met an Evangelical. So, they're only going by what they've been told. I always encourage them not to go by what you're being told. Get to know us and base your opinion on real experience and not on what you've been told. Because every Jewish person I know, like Jonathan and others that have gotten involved in this relationship, love it and love the people they're working with. So, there's something that's amiss here, and it's the personal experience and relationship. That's what I encourage them. Base your opinions on real-life experience.

Jonathan Feldstein: Correct, 100 percent, Susan.

Dr. Susan Michael: So, Jonathan, share with our audience some of the things that you've done, your projects. Genesis 123, what does it do? What have you done over the years?

Jonathan Feldstein: Our mission is to build bridges between Jews and Christians and Christians with Israel in ways that are new and unique and meaningful. When I say that, it means that I don't want to be the next Orthodox Jewish teacher of Torah to Christians, and I don't want to be the next person who's doing the same thing that others are already doing. I'm looking for new ways of engagement.

The first project that we launched when we started the organization is called Run for Zion. Run for Zion is the first Christian program around the Jerusalem Marathon. We've spoken about this in the past, and at the time, some years ago, I met with the mayor of Jerusalem, Nir Barkat, who's now a member of our Knesset here in Israel. He is an entrepreneur. At the time, he was mayor of Jerusalem, and he's also a runner. So, he understood that I had identified something that was really unique and necessary to do, and even with a subsidy model so that in this coming year, 2023, people can come along and participate for as little as $23.

But we're also engaged—you mentioned the podcast, Inspiration from Zion. That started out as a webinar during the pandemic when people couldn't connect in person. So, the webinar series started. It was not deliberately intended to be something ongoing, but as a stop-gap. That was wildly successful. Then I was invited to be the only Orthodox Jew to know as far as I know with a weekly podcast about Israel on the Charisma Podcast Network, which has been amazing for me on so many levels.

One of the things, and there's so much going on, but one of the things that I'll mention also that I've been getting into and I'm hoping that this year we will have a kind of formal launch, is you know about a year ago there was the first of two different surveys that were released indicating a 50 percent drop of support among young Christians, a drop of support for Israel. That's something that troubles me. I don't know how many Jews and how many Orthodox Jews I know who will say what I'm about to say. It's bad for Israel and it's bad biblically, but it's also very, very bad for the church.

I think that someone, and I hope to be that someone, needs to pull together an interdenominational multi-ethnic task force that will address what are these issues and how do we fix it without politics, without rhetoric, but really delving in. Because if we wait another 10 years, we're going to end up seeing the elementary school-aged children today continuing to have no thought for Israel or actually not support Israel. But again, it all comes back to finding unique ways to build bridges and make connections.

Dr. Susan Michael: Yes. Well, and Jonathan, I will add to your brief resume there that you are a wonderful writer. You have written a lot of articles. I've seen them on the Charisma website. But if anyone just Googles your name, I'm sure a lot of articles will come up that you've written on various subjects about Israel, but also about this relationship and Jews and Christians. So, I would really recommend your articles.

We are also very concerned about the future of the Evangelical movement in America, and with that comes the Evangelical support of Israel as we see these trends that are really a threat. I agree with you. The stronger the Evangelical church is, the stronger will be the support for Israel of America, not just of Christians, but of America, as we are the backbone of that support. So, it's very critical. What we're putting a lot of effort into right now is building educational resources because that's one of the needs. So, we'll be happy to talk with you further at another point and see how we could be involved in that.

Jonathan, getting back to our subject of Jewish-Christian relations. What would be your advice if you were speaking, let's say, to a Jewish person first, and then we'll let you give advice to the Christian market, but what's your advice to them about how to begin this relationship?

Jonathan Feldstein: Wow. There are so many. First of all, you said it from a different perspective, but we need to get to know one another. It's not necessarily easy if a Jewish person doesn't really know or have a relationship with a Christian just to make that happen. I invite anybody, Jews and Christians, always to reach out to me and me help with that.

We were at the same conference, the same event, at the NRB in the spring. Johnny Moore actually spoke exactly about this. He said Christians—well, now I'm speaking from the other side—but Christians need to go out and find Jewish neighbors and embrace them and get to know them. I would say exactly the same thing about Jews.

The one thing I would qualify is that I would argue that most Jews don't know the difference between an Evangelical Christian and a Catholic or any Greek, Roman, Armenian, or Russian Orthodox, or even a Mormon, for that matter. Jews tend to lump everyone in together with tremendous ignorance because we don't know.

I think that first and foremost, Jews need to begin to understand the theological differences, the sociological differences, and then identify okay, who are these people that really love us and how can I engage with them? Ask questions. I always say this. We have one mouth to speak half as much as we need to be listening. We really do need to be listening to one another.

Dr. Susan Michael: Yes. It's a very good point because when we lump everybody together, then we don't understand how this particular branch of Christendom, the Evangelical Christians, how it's new and it's really not associated with the anti-Semitic past of the church. Most Evangelicals don't even know about that past. So, I spend a lot of time educating on the history because we have to learn the lessons that that history affords us.

And if we're going to be involved in Jewish-Christian relations, the Jewish community, they know that history. They're looking at us through the lens of that history. So, we need to know it so that we understand those issues that are red flags or that we need to either avoid or we just need to be very careful how we articulate and understand the sensitivity of some of those issues.

Once the Jewish community comes to understand this is like a whole new segment of Christianity, and it's a very powerful one because it's growing faster than all the other segments and will one day be the largest segment within Christendom, so it's very important.

Also, the other thing I've observed over the years is it's difficult for the Jewish community to engage the Evangelical world because we're made of thousands of denominations, not one with a head office and the director of interfaith relations you know who to go to. With the Evangelical world, it's grassroots, and so it's quite hard to engage it too. Any way that we can help the Jewish leaders and Jewish community to engage our community, we're always here to serve.

Jonathan, I always like to ask this of our pioneers. I know you shared the special story of the first church you went into and the call of God to this work. But do you have any other special stories or funny stories or just impactful moments in this relationship that one of your favorite examples to give?

Jonathan Feldstein: Well, I would say just most recently. With building bridges and not having any boundaries, there are any number of ways that what I do can go and has gone. I just returned a week ago from my most recent trip in the US. You know, and anyone listening following in the US knows, that there's been a tremendous shortage of baby formula. I decided, wow, that's horrible.

I had a grandson who needed a particular kind of formula at a stage in his life where he was unable to ingest whole foods yet, and he lived because of that formula. So, our shelves are filled with baby formula, and I decided I was going to bring some. That notion percolated. I ended up flying with one of my daughters, and I still had the status with the airline that allowed each of us to take 370-pound bags.

So, I dragged along—I made an arrangement with one of Israel's largest grocery store chains to make a special order and give me a discount. The manager of the store near my home in Gush Etzion is a Palestinian Arab Muslim from Hebron who loved that he was participating in this. I brought 200 pounds of baby formula, 119 cans, through customs. God was with me there too, because it could have been a little bit hairy.

I joke that some of the cans broke, and there was a white powder leaking out of some of the luggage, so it could have gone any way there. But this is a great story because it never had entered my mind a month ago that we could fulfill the third of the three segments of Genesis 12:3, which is the families of the world will be blessed through you.

I even had to look up the word in Hebrew. It is families. So, now today, sitting in dozens of Christian homes all around the Dallas-Fort Worth area, you've got families that have cans of baby formula with Hebrew writing, the same Hebrew letters that the scripture Genesis 12:3 is written in, as just our way to be a blessing for the families of the world.

Dr. Susan Michael: That is a great story. It's a great example, Jonathan, of how you think out of the box and you come up with these very creative ideas. That's really a great story. Well, let me ask what I think is my final question today. How has this relationship impacted you personally? How have you been enriched by it?

Jonathan Feldstein: I'm a better human being, and I'm a better Jew. I'm a better human being because I'm tremendously fulfilled on a personal level, personal and professional. I'm a better Jew because I'm interfacing with people who are also people of faith, deeply. We all worship—I hate saying the same God because he's the only God. But we're the only people who are worshiping our Creator and who revere him and who have a relationship with him. I have the privilege of playing an important role vis-a-vis Christians in representing Judaism and what Jews are and are about, which necessarily keeps me on my best behavior. And that really makes me a better Jew and a better human being.

Dr. Susan Michael: That is a perfect example of what this relationship can do for all of us. Because if we are so intimidated by someone that may disagree with us or have a different theological opinion on something, if we're so intimidated that we don't know how to have a relationship with that person, then we're robbed of the opportunity of actually better investigating what we do believe so that we can discuss it and articulate it.

We can come out of it actually stronger in our beliefs and stronger in our identity as we grapple with some of these things. It's a real gift in Judaism that you encourage asking questions. So many times in any religious circles, questions are kind of looked down upon. But Judaism encourages it, to debate, to ask questions, to learn how to debate and articulate.

That's a really wonderful thing for Christians then being involved with our Jewish friends, we also learn how to discuss and to analyze and debate and articulate, and we come out of it better for it.

Jonathan Feldstein: And the operative word I think you just used is learn. I'll just share another quick story. Back in March, I visited a church in Tennessee. The pastor was hosting me. We did a great Shabbat program together with me and the community. I love to do that. And then he hosted me in all of the Sunday worship services.

Because they were in a brand-new building, it was my first visit back since they had moved. I brought a Mezuzah from here from Israel for them to put on the door. I was explaining how and where and why we—and he said, "Well, why do you hang it on an angle?"

I said, "I don't know. I'll have to check for you."

He used that as a great example during the Sunday teaching because he loved the fact that we just follow our faith even the things that we don't know we follow, and then we learn about. So, I apply that same principle to my relations with a growing number of Christian friends.

Dr. Susan Michael: Wonderful. Jonathan, thank you for sharing with us today. I'm sure that I'll be seeing you at the next Christian conference I go to. I don't know which one, but look forward to seeing you there. I encourage everyone, in today's show notes, we link to Jonathan's podcast and more information about his Genesis 123 Foundation. So, thank you everyone, and be back here next week when we interview another pioneer in this relationship. Until then, God bless.

Guest (Male): We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael. Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Pray.com, Salem Web Network, and Salem Life Audio. Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA. All rights reserved.