Out of Zion

Announcer: Welcome to the Israel Answers Series, connecting Israel, the Bible, and you. Join Susan Michael as she explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective to equip the Christian world with a balanced and biblical response.

Be sure to subscribe for future episodes, which will ignite your faith and bring the Bible to life in your everyday world. Now, let’s join Susan with your Israel Answers.

Dr. Susan Michael: Welcome to today's Out of Zion podcast. I'm Dr. Susan Michael, and I'm really looking forward to today's conversation with a new friend and colleague, Jeremy Stein, who is the director of the Center for Holy Land Studies.

This is a department or a study program through the Assemblies of God denomination. So we want to learn more about what that is and what they do. So Jeremy, tell us a little bit about your background, how you ended up in this position, and how this came about.

Jeremy Stein: Sure thing. Originally from New York City, I was a pastor's kid growing up there. When I went to Bible college, I never really had an interest in the land of the Bible or anything like that, which now I look back and I'm like, "No, Dad should have got me excited about that."

In college, I went to a school called Zion Bible College, which is up in northern Massachusetts. They had a program in the summer with the Center for Holy Land Studies of the Assemblies of God that took students to the lands of the Bible, specifically ministry students, so that they could get experience in the land and fall in love with the land before they ever got behind a pulpit.

I really signed up because all my friends were doing it. I didn't need the credits for it, but I said, "You know what, I might as well do this as a graduation present for myself." At the time, my girlfriend was also planning on going on the trip, and I was thinking about how to propose and when to propose. I thought this would be a great time. So, all the wrong reasons to go.

Then I went, and man, did God meet me there in such a powerful and profound way. I absolutely fell in love with the world of the Bible and the land of Israel. I got engaged on that trip. Then we came home, and I told my now-wife, "That's what I want to do for a living. I want to bring people to the land of Israel." She goes, "That's not a job. That doesn't pay the bills. You just went for four years to get a degree in pastoral ministry and now you're telling me you want to drop all that and go for a Master's in Ancient Judaism and the Origins of Christianity? How are we going to pay for the wedding?"

We had to postpone it and all that, but that was what was burning inside me. So I did all those things. We postponed the wedding, and I went and studied at Nyack College in New York City, which had a partnership with Yeshiva University also. We got to trade students, essentially, where we had students that came from Yeshiva that learned under our Christian professors, and then we had the honor of going to Yeshiva and learning under some of their rabbinic professors.

I was just getting ingrained inside the world while also having us go back and forth to Israel and study. As a result, I said, "I want to give back to the ministry that really birthed this in me." I started finding ways to get involved with the Center for Holy Land Studies. In 2017, the one who founded the center, Dr. George O. Wood, asked me to come on and be a teaching specialist for it.

That was probably my favorite job I've ever held because my whole responsibility was basically to create content and to be in the land and to journey with pastors, but more importantly, students, in learning about the land but also falling in love with the land and God's word inside the land.

Dr. Susan Michael: I love it. So how old were you when you went?

Jeremy Stein: I was 21.

Dr. Susan Michael: Okay, I was 19 when I first went. I totally get the excitement and the life change that it brought about. I'm glad you eventually got the girl. How long did you have to delay the wedding?

Jeremy Stein: It was four years. She's going to be like, "You're telling everybody that." We've been married now nine years, it'll be ten this December, and we have a little one-and-a-half-year-old.

Dr. Susan Michael: Congratulations, that's wonderful. So you did get a Master's in Ancient Judaism and the Origins of Christianity. You studied under rabbinical professors; that's something that not a lot of students get that opportunity. That's great. So tell me now, what kind of programs do you have? Are they all short study trips or different lengths? And you have a property in Jerusalem, don't you?

Jeremy Stein: We did. We were actually talking about that on the car ride over here. We had a property in Jerusalem, but it ended up getting sold. One of our universities really was the one that owned it. We do have a property up in the North right now that we use more so for retreats but also for a staging center for some of the excavations that take place. We get to do a whole bunch of different things.

We have all different lengths of programs from 10 days up to a couple of months, depending on what the need is. Our purpose is really to influence not just the current generation that is in the pulpit, but the next generation that's coming into the pulpit and instilling a love for God's word and a love for biblical literacy, which is on such a decline, through using the land of the Bible itself as the best medium for it.

So we take church groups, which is really what we do in volume the most of, simply because that's what pays the bills. But it allows us then to invest inside students. We do a number of student trips every year. We do a J-term trip that's about two weeks long or so. Then we do another trip that's specifically geared towards students who are going into the missions field.

It's tied in with a program called Pack Your Bags where they go out to different places and get a taste of being on the missions field, and then they all come together after going to all these various countries to Israel to see kind of God's call on their life while journeying through the message of the Gospels and the place that it happened.

Then we have another program every year that we call Bible Lands. That's a university program that we open up not just to Assemblies of God universities, but any university that really wants to get involved. It's about getting students there to fall in love with it no matter what their calling is, whether it's pastoral ministry, youth ministry, or if they're called to the arts, writing, or academia. That trip will range from three weeks or we've done it over two months of them absolutely just getting ingrained inside the culture and the world of the Bible.

Dr. Susan Michael: So how many people do you take over every year?

Jeremy Stein: Usually maybe a couple thousand or so. It depends on the year. Obviously, events inside the world have changed that significantly. The last five years have been up and down. But things are really starting to come back in full fledge again. I'm going to say we're going to be looking at taking 2,000, maybe 2,500 people in the next year to the land.

Dr. Susan Michael: And how many times do you go over individually?

Jeremy Stein: I'm there about once a month or so, if not more. I am as active as I can be with these trips while balancing a family life at home. It's my passion and my calling. As much as I love being the director and overseeing things from a directorial standpoint, I'm a teacher at heart.

I want to be there and I want to see people have that "aha" moment of "Oh, this is the true Israel. These are God's people that I'm interacting with. I understood this differently, but now I understand it in the light of modern-day events and modern Israel and the Jewish people." For me, those moments as they see their Bible come alive in a new and a fresh way, that makes it so exciting for me. That's what I long to do the most. So if I can get a chance to put myself on a trip, I will do it.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, when you're in your 30s, you can do that every month going over. You still have lots of energy. So tell us now, you've been doing this for nine years full-time. What have you seen in terms of trends or changes with the pastors? I'm talking specifically about the pastors now that you're taking over. Do you find that there's some trend, something you're constantly hearing and you've almost had to change your curriculum in order to offset?

Jeremy Stein: Unfortunately, I'll say growing antisemitism and growing replacement theology especially. I think it is a result of just culture today. They're being impacted and bombarded, especially as social media expands. These are what they're hearing on podcasts and things of that nature. They start maybe believing a kernel of it, and then you start getting in conversation with them inside the land.

In those conversations and just asking questions, you start hearing things that are puzzling and should be puzzling. You have to ask yourself, "Is this what's being reiterated from the pulpit?" So then we've had to change the conversation that we've had about, "Guys, how do we see things? How do we understand things? But also, what's the biblical lens that we're looking through? Is media impacting that biblical lens? Are those who are listening to you impacted by that, rather than allowing the land itself and the Bible itself to speak to that?" So we've absolutely had to shift that significantly to just combat the rise of that world watch.

Dr. Susan Michael: Do you have any stories you can share of someone that came with maybe some antisemitism and their "aha" moment?

Jeremy Stein: Absolutely. I've got tons of them, and they all almost have the same "aha" moment. I've had pastors that have come and said, "Listen, that's all nice, but let's be realistic. We are Israel now. You can't change my mind." There's one individual in Jerusalem that I bring my groups to all the time to talk to. He and his brother own a shop in the Jewish Quarter, and his name is Moshe.

Most people who travel through the land know Moshe and Dov very well. Moshe is an Orthodox Jew who allows Christians to come into his shop and ask him any question that they want. Nothing is off-limits. Nothing is too sacred. Nothing is too offensive. He asks them if he can speak to them first, and he does so. He brings in the reality of how they are experiencing prophecy and they're bringing it to life just by them being there.

This idea of replacing Israel or trying to supersede Israel, that's not even a question in his mind. It's that we're all part, we're all serving our God, our Father. When he has that conversation, they're allowed to ask him questions. He does more of the legwork than I ever get to do because it's not from somebody that they're expecting to hear these answers from.

They're expecting to have that dialogue. I can't tell you how many pastors have walked out of that little shop just bawling because of that moment of understanding, "Okay, there's somebody who we might see things differently theologically when it comes to the Messianship or Jesus himself, but you cannot be in that man's presence without understanding that that man loves the Lord our God with all of his heart, mind, soul, and strength."

That starts making things tick inside their mind. They start asking themselves, "Maybe I did get it wrong because this faceless person on this podcast or this show that told me X, Y, and Z, or this sermon, they might say one thing, but I just interacted with somebody who proved that wrong because of the way he talked to me, the way that he interacted with me, but also with what I see in his life."

Dr. Susan Michael: So this proves my saying that the antidote for antisemitism is relationship. It's so easy to demonize a people if you don't know any of them. It's all just theory in your mind based on something you heard or something you read. But when you get to know them, you have to grapple with these things and realize these are not just human beings, but actually, these are people that have lived an amazing story for centuries and have been faithful and unfaithful at times.

Yet God has been faithful to his promises and bringing them back. To have a personal conversation with a Jewish person, that too can be life-changing. So you've just proved that, and that's an important part. Do your tours do any kind of like a Shabbat dinner?

Jeremy Stein: We do on request. Our tours are completely customizable based off of what the church is looking for. So we'll do not only the Shabbat dinner, but we'll also bring people to Kfar Aza and what happened there. If they want to simply be inside the fields and pick fruit and be a part of that, we have opened up all different options for what's burning on their heart to get them connected with God's people.

Dr. Susan Michael: I was asking about the Shabbat because that is another way for, especially pastors and young people, to have that personal interaction around a Jewish family's Shabbat table. There are groups there in Israel that will do that and try to accommodate as many tourists as they can in a home so that you can just experience the specialness of Shabbat. That also is really eye-opening for a lot of people.

Jeremy Stein: We've had some of our groups that have actually brought our guides back to the States in order to do Shabbat dinner with their church because it was so impactful inside the land for them.

Dr. Susan Michael: So tell me, within our pastors, what kind of percentages do you think intentionally teach a replacement theology position?

Jeremy Stein: I have to say somewhere about 60% or more off the top of my head, unfortunately. It's rapidly shifting. Three years ago, before October 7th, I would have said it was closer to 35-40%. Maybe even 10 years ago, I might have said 20-25%. But it is rapidly shifting. It's something that we should be very concerned about because you have many voices that are feeding into it that are impacting so many people in ways that they can't even imagine. They're not just impacting the pastors, but then they're impacting the congregations that are hearing from the pastors.

Dr. Susan Michael: Does your denomination, the Assemblies of God, have any kind of official stance on replacement theology?

Jeremy Stein: We do. We have a statement that is part of our bylaws or a position paper against it. But the difference about the Assemblies of God as a whole is that it's a cooperative fellowship. The focus on the Assemblies of God is in what we call the 16 fundamental truths. So there's disagreements on the position papers and things like that, and that gives churches some type of leeway and pastors leeway that they can push those type of theologies if it doesn't necessarily disagree with the 16 fundamental truths. That's what we have a lot of times, unfortunately, is that reality.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, I'm so grateful to know that they have a statement on that. And then they also have a statement or two about antisemitism, right?

Jeremy Stein: Yes. Our very first statement against antisemitism came out in 1928. We were at the forefront of really trying to make a stand against the growing antisemitism that was happening inside Europe that resulted in the atrocities we see in the 1930s and the 1940s. Just in 2022, we reiterated that stance after one of our biennial meetings, what we call our General Council, making a public declaration three pages long of declaring we are standing against antisemitism, we stand with Israel, we stand with the people of Israel. I think it was divine because just the next year, you have such a push against that type of mindset that we had just solidified just one year earlier.

Dr. Susan Michael: That's wonderful. It's really great to know. Jeremy, your name, Jeremy Stein. Do you have any Jewishness in you or is this German?

Jeremy Stein: Everybody asks me. So, background: yes, it is German. But also, my grandfather was a very weird individual and he jumped from faith and belief and religion. He was a Jehovah's Witness for a time, he was a Mormon. My dad ended up becoming a believer when he was in high school. We just couldn't really trace it. So is there the possibility that on my grandfather's side that we were Jewish? 100%. We just don't know. He was a weird guy, that's all I can say.

I wish I had a better answer, but I've gotten brought into the fold of the National Jewish Fellowship of the Assemblies of God. They tell me that I'm Jewish as a result. When I'm in Israel, people just assume that. So it works perfectly. I am whatever God has called and destined me to be. If we come out with it and see that I am, I'm excited for it.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, if in Israel they assume you are, then you probably are. We're just so glad to know about you and your calling and that you found it and that God's using you in such amazing ways here. It really is critical. It's critical that the pastors and the church leaders understand the significance of Israel because that's when their Bible really makes sense.

That brings spiritual revival to churches when their Bible then becomes so exciting because they understand—we call it the Israel Key. It's like you put it in, the Bible stands up and comes alive. That has to bring revival to churches. So what you're doing is really critical for the whole denomination. We're just so glad to know about it. We pray that the Lord bless you and use you and multiply this many, many times over.

Jeremy Stein: Thank you so much. We are so blessed, first of all, by this friendship, but also by what you guys are doing too. It's always exciting when we get to hear about how God is blessing you, especially inside Jerusalem. It's fantastic.

Dr. Susan Michael: Well, we'd love to partner with you. So next time you're over there, I need to connect you with our Jerusalem headquarters.

Hey, just give me one more minute. I want to offer you one of our free resources. We have wonderful resources in our show notes and if you go to our website at icejusa.org/shownotes, you'll find links for a number of our free offerings. We have downloads to help root you in scripture, help you to understand the issues surrounding Israel, and the importance of Christian support for Israel. And don't forget, please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn and stay connected. Thank you and God bless.

Announcer: We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael. Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Pray.com, SalemOnePlace, Salem Life Audio. Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA. All rights reserved.