Out of Zion

Shelly Niese: Welcome to Out of Zion. I'm Shelly Niese filling in for Dr. Susan Michael. I have with me Erik Stakelbeck, who you probably already know and recognize. He's the host of Stakelbeck Tonight and The Watchman on YouTube. Erik, welcome to the show.

Erik Stakelbeck: Shelly, it's great to be with you. We were talking off-camera, kind of joking about my workload, but it's for such a time as this. It goes without saying. You mentioned Stakelbeck Tonight every weeknight on TBN, The Watchman Newscast on YouTube, and there's the Stacks-Cast, my podcast.

Three balls I'm juggling, but we're having fun doing it. I can't think of a better time to do it. We live in perilous times, Bible times, and we're getting the truth out there on multiple platforms.

Shelly Niese: I'm a long-form person, so I know most people are probably Stakelbeck Tonight, but I'm Stacks-Cast. We all have our camps. You've been on the front lines of this battle as a journalist covering all things Middle East for so long. I want to get the hot topics out of the way. What is going on in Iran prophetically, spiritually, and politically? How are Christians supposed to wrap our heads around all of this?

Erik Stakelbeck: This is really the issue of our times right now. Iran, as you and I are speaking, President Trump has sent what he calls an armada to Iran. We've got a massive US military buildup at Iran's doorstep. I don't think it's by coincidence. I think the big question here in terms of military vis-a-vis Iran is, does Israel join the United States?

Does Israel come alongside the US, sort of like we saw in the 12-day war? Israel kind of started it with President Trump's blessing, launched Operation Rising Lion, and the US finished it with Operation Midnight Hammer, destroying Iran's nuclear weapons facilities. Is there a collaboration now? We just saw Prime Minister Netanyahu visit the White House to meet with President Trump. I'm sure they were discussing much more than the weather.

How does the regime in Tehran respond? You know so well this is a fanatical jihadist regime, apocalyptic Islamic end-times theology. Do they go out, in their view, in a blaze of glory? Are they firing ballistic missiles at US bases in the region and at Israel? There's a very real possibility they will do that if they feel like their regime is about to topple.

What comes next in Iran? We've had this wicked, demonic death cult for almost half a century now, 47 years in power. The Iranian people are the main victims of their jackboot. Could it be Reza Pahlavi, the son of the Shah? He's been based in the DC area for some time. People are talking about him. At the end of the day, if you're an Iranian or a friend of the Iranian people, anything is better than this regime.

This regime has to go. It has to be thrust into the ash heap of history where it belongs. I think it's going to happen. President Trump means business. Prophetically, people need to remember that Iran is a Bible land. Modern-day Iran is ancient Persia. Think of Mordecai, Esther, Cyrus, Darius, Ezra, and Nehemiah. That was in Iran.

These stories are from our Bible. God is not done with that country. I believe that if this regime topples—it's the fastest-growing church in the world, by the way, the underground church in Iran, despite relentless persecution—we could see a revival in Iran and the Gospel go out from that nation across the Middle East and across the Muslim world. That's how high the stakes are right now.

Shelly Niese: I've been so encouraged too about all that we've been hearing for years now about the revival that's happening that isn't talked about against all odds. I have friends in UAE that are saying their churches are growing in numbers because of the Iranians that are coming, excited to be able to practice freely their new religion as Jesus followers, and they don't know where to start.

What do we do in terms of the media? I listen to many newscasts because I'm always trying to see what everyone's talking about. I find it so alarming that for two years, the media reported Hamas's death numbers when the Gaza war was happening. We all got to hear the regular reports of how many were dead based off of the Hamas reported numbers. Now, you can't find anywhere anything of reported dead in Iran because they say they can't verify the numbers. What is happening?

Erik Stakelbeck: I think it shows the moral rot of Western civilization today, or what used to be Western civilization. To follow the Hamas narrative in Gaza with false, inflated numbers is taking the word of a demonic terrorist organization, a genocidal terrorist organization. To ignore Iran—and really, the mainstream media writ large and most of Europe has ignored what's a real, genuine genocide in Iran perpetrated by the government on its own people—is insane.

At least 40,000 people, generous estimates of what we've heard, have been slaughtered in the streets in the past month and a half alone by this blood-soaked regime. It's happening right now in real-time, and it's buried on page 20 of the New York Times. It's evil. It's complete moral depravity. Yet, the Gaza narrative will be pushed. There's not Jews involved. If there's a chance to portray Jews as villains and aggressors, the media and Europe are all over that because we're locked in a spiritual battle. That's the greatest symptom of it, the rise of antisemitism and Jew-hatred.

They are loath to criticize an Islamic regime. We don't want to be seen as intolerant or anti-Islamic, which is insane. It doesn't fit the narrative that the Western left, which controls the mainstream media and many of the cultural levers here in the West, prefers. It doesn't fit their preferred narrative of Jewish or Christian aggressors and Muslim victims. It's a shame for the Iranian people, first and foremost.

The left has formed this unholy alliance with Islamists. Both of them have the shared goal of destroying Judeo-Christian Western civilization. It is a cautionary tale for the left in that regard. In the 1979 Iranian Revolution, the Marxists, the socialists, and the communists all backed the Ayatollah. Once he came to power, about six months later, he had them all rounded up and executed or thrown in prison. When you get in bed with Islamists, you're unleashing dark forces you do not understand. The Islamists are playing for keeps.

Shelly Niese: I have to be one of the most naively optimistic Christian Zionists because it still surprises me. It still surprises me because I just thought this would be a war that the progressive left could get behind. Self-determination, a revolution against a dictator, and women being persecuted. To me, it has all the elements of something that we should all be united on, a free Iran.

Erik Stakelbeck: If we can't unite on this, what can we unite on? It's a slaughter happening in real-time by a brutal jihadist regime that oppresses women, oppresses religious minorities, and hates the West. We can't all get behind the Iranian people and sound the alarm. This should be 1A on every newspaper in America. It boggles the mind. It's a symptom and gives us a good idea of where we are right now in the West in particular.

This is a moment of reckoning for the West. We've lost our moral compass. Even 10 years ago, this would be front-page news. Now it's not. It's pretty telling of the state of things spiritually in the West, too.

Shelly Niese: Like you said, Trump and Netanyahu, this is a big week. If you were a fly on the wall, what are they talking about besides Iran? What else would be on the agenda?

Erik Stakelbeck: Iran is definitely 1A. When it comes to Iran, yes, the nuclear program, but the ballistic missiles are 1AA in terms of threats not only to Israel but to the United States. Gaza, of course. This board of peace just met this week for the first time. I'm personally not too optimistic about it. President Trump has noble motives here for peace in the Middle East. As a believer and someone who knows Scripture, I know the only time we'll really have peace in the Middle East and in the world is when Jesus returns. He'll make all things right.

No doubt as he sets his foot on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. President Trump has a noble goal, and that's part of taking out the Iranian regime. As long as they're in power, he can't truly have what he wants to have in the Middle East, which is a peaceful region. If Iran's there, they're the fount of all terror in the region with Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and their proxies. President Trump has a vision for the Middle East, and he can't fulfill that vision with the Iranian regime in power.

With Gaza and the Board of Peace, the administration wants to move into phase two of this Gaza peace plan. How do you get Hamas to disarm? You know so well they're not going to just lay down their arms because then they wouldn't be Hamas. It's a demonic Nazi death cult and they live and operate for one reason and one reason only: to murder, maim, and destroy. That's what they do. If you take away their weapons, who are they? What do they have? They have no identity. They're not going to disarm without force.

The IDF is going to have to go back in, probably in the next two months or so, and forcibly disarm Hamas. The world is going to howl. I presume that President Trump will give Israel the green light to do it. He says he's fed up with Hamas, and it's time. We're over two years since October 7th. They've been thoroughly defeated militarily, but they need to be forcibly disarmed once and for all. If and when that happens, President Trump has great plans for Gaza to make it a business enterprise economic enterprise zone with high-rises overlooking the Mediterranean. It sounds great, but you can't get there without Hamas being disarmed.

The administration is working with Qatar and Turkey. I think that's a mistake. I look at Iran and the potential collapse of the Iranian axis as a great thing. My concern is that Turkey, Qatar, and this new regime in Syria are going to fill that vacuum and be a new adversary to Israel and to the West. We need to be very careful in collaborating with Turkey and Qatar, especially in Gaza at Israel's doorstep.

Shelly Niese: We have a Qatar problem because they're just trying to play both sides of the fence all the time. It feels like they're playing everyone, affecting our American media, affecting our American hearts and minds of the young people. How do we deal with a Qatar problem?

Erik Stakelbeck: I would isolate Qatar as much as possible. They are pretty much today the main benefactor of the Muslim Brotherhood and the main purveyor of that Brotherhood ideology around the world and in our education system. In universities in America, Qatar is pouring money into elite American universities. You wonder why we have droves of kids out in the streets embracing Hamas and attacking Jews on college campuses in America. Definitely Qatari fingerprints on that.

It's an anti-semitic regime. Their textbooks and educational system in Qatar are anti-Israel and anti-semitic to the core. They are aligned with Erdoğan in Turkey, who is a very dangerous player. Turkey is a NATO member nation, the second largest military in NATO behind only the United States. They have a formidable Navy. Israel is very concerned about Turkey.

Erdoğan himself, the leader of Turkey, is Muslim Brotherhood. When it comes to that Brotherhood nexus now in the Middle East and really spreading in the West as well, you have Erdoğan providing the muscle and the Qataris providing the money. That's an unholy alliance in and of itself. Then you have Syria. We've got this new regime there. Assad is gone, an Iranian puppet. Now you've got a guy in control in Syria who was an Al-Qaeda commander about 16 months ago wearing fatigues.

Now he's been at the White House and he's controlling most of Syria. It's still a chaotic situation there. Can we trust him? I think the jury's out. Turkey loves him, and Qatar loves him. I'm looking at that axis very closely. The Qataris are a big problem and they really haven't been held to account. I think they're playing with fire. You would think eventually this administration has shown great moral clarity in nearly every case. I think the Qataris eventually will be exposed. I hope.

Shelly Niese: As a Christian Zionist, someone who is going to support Israel through and through no matter what the administration is, what do you find most alarming right now about both sides? What do you find most comforting?

Erik Stakelbeck: Qatar is alarming. Turkey and what they're doing. They're not being held accountable. These are bad actors who have for some reason been whitelisted. They've ingratiated themselves. We'll see there. I think what really alarms me are these so-called conservatives on the right who are anti-semitic and anti-Israel. I think of Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Megyn Kelly also drifting into that camp.

That to me has been alarming and really disheartening. These are people we expect it from the left and from Islamists. I think it hurts the most when it comes from people who you thought were your friends. It feels like a knife in the back because these folks—Candace Owens visited Israel a few years ago, seemed pro-Israel. Tucker Carlson never really talked about Israel much; I just thought he was kind of indifferent. Now they're coming out and they're full-on conspiratorial anti-Israel and anti-Zionist. They're anti-semitic.

Full-on Jew-hatred is being expressed in their commentary and with their guests. Young people are listening to that. These podcasters are very influential. Ian Carroll is another name the average person may not know, but they have large followings—millions of people and young people in particular. I say Tucker in particular always thought he was a smart guy. He really knows better, so there's something deep-seated there. He and his ilk are theologically, geopolitically, and historically ignorant.

It's stunning what he puts out there. These are bold-faced lies that can be easily disproven. He says that the Christian population in Israel is being forcibly emptied out of the Holy Land. You and I know the Christian population in Israel is growing exponentially. He's lying. It's a bold-faced lie. Why is he doing it? I think some of it has to be from his heart. People talk about Qatari cash being thrown around to podcasters, as well. Who knows?

It's a sinister thing happening on the right in this segment that used to be called the right. I don't know what they are now. They seem to have more in common with the left in many ways. We need to call them out and expose them. We need to continue to speak the truth of the Gospel. That's where the encouragement comes in. You can't stop the Gospel.

We talked about the church growing in Iran. God is on the throne. He's moving throughout the Middle East. Muslims are having dreams and visions and turning to Jesus. It's amazing. I have Muslim friends I've met in places like Iraq and Syria who've had dreams of Jesus. They're leaving Islam and they're coming to Jesus. They're becoming Christians. God's moving in the region number one.

Number two, God has worked miracles in Israel since October 7th against all odds. Israel's been fighting a seven-front war and they're prevailing and having miraculous victories. The pager operation in Lebanon against Hezbollah—oh my gosh. That war was over essentially before it even started with the pager operation.

The great relationship between Israel and the United States right now—I believe God is using this administration. I think in America, thank God, we have a reprieve right now under President Trump and his team. I hope it's a long window; it could be a short window. That depends on us here in America, but God is moving. He's on the throne, and Israel's best days lie ahead. These are bumps in the road for sure. It's always going to be rocky, but God has His hand on His land and His people. The body of Christ needs to come alongside that. We see revival stirring in America among young people. Good things are happening. Amid all the madness, God is moving.

Shelly Niese: Last May, you joined ICEJ USA and ACLI for an advocacy day on Capitol Hill. You covered it for the show and you participated in it as a voter and constituent. Will you be joining us again this year?

Erik Stakelbeck: I will be there. It's marked on my calendar. That was an incredible event. I encourage everyone to go. Is it May 4th through the 6th? I locked it in. Great weather in DC at that time. DC's a lot friendlier these days, so it's a good time to be there. We had a great time last year. Bishop Robert Stearns will be there, and some heavy, impactful voices for this movement for Israel and for America. I'll be there and I encourage everyone to come. Each year I wonder as we get further from October 7th and Israel is basically now a superpower at this point—but I always wonder, will there be enough advocacy points? Will there be enough things we need to talk about? There always are. There's always some new fight.

Erik Stakelbeck: Till Jesus returns, as we said earlier, it's never going to slow down. There is always some new fight because it is a spiritual battle. It's intensifying, and Israel more and more will be the center. I know scripturally it's going to be the center of the world's attention. Jerusalem in particular. It's a geographic center of the world. If you look on a map, Israel is smack-dab in the middle of the world, and Jerusalem is the center of that center. It's not by coincidence. Fasten your seatbelts, good things are happening, but the eyes of the world will be fixed on Israel.

Shelly Niese: We'll roll out the red carpet to Jerusalem from DC in May. Thank you for listening to the Out of Zion podcast. Give me just one more minute. I want to offer you one of our free resources. We have wonderful resources in our show notes and if you go to our website at icejusa.org/shownotes, you'll find links for a number of our free offerings. We have downloadables to help root you in Scripture, help you to understand the issues surrounding Israel and the importance of Christian support for Israel. Don't forget, please, follow us on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn and stay connected. Thank you and God bless.