Living on the Edge

Guest (Male): Today on Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram: sexual freedom, gay rights, transgenderism. For the last few decades, these have been the issues that have caused the most animosity and anger between the church and the culture. So how do we engage people on these tough subjects with unconditional love, without compromising the truth? It is a tough one, isn't it? Well, that is today. Stay with us.

Today on Living on the Edge, Chip Ingram invites guest teacher Aaron Pierce for a truly practical message on how to hold on to biblical truth without losing a relationship due to the divisive topic of sexuality. In an earlier program, Aaron addressed the argument of politics with this challenge: love the person, even if you disagree with the position.

And if you need to revisit or get caught up on that lesson or any message from our current series called Caring Enough to Connect, just go online to livingontheedge.org. Well, now here is Aaron with today's message, "Let's Talk about the Hard Stuff."

Aaron Pierce: Okay, so now that we have dealt with politics, let's go to the next easy topic, which is sexuality. Now, sexuality is undoubtedly the issue that draws the most hostility from secular culture towards the church. And if you are going to be actively engaging in secular culture, the topic of LGBTQ+ is unavoidable.

It is tough because discussions about LGBTQ+ rights are emotionally charged, and they are drawing on themes of justice and equality connected to the civil rights movements of the '50s and '60s. That is what makes it so hard, because you don't want to be on the wrong side of history. Anything less than total affirmation of all things LGBTQ+ is quickly labeled as homophobic and bigoted.

It is a big challenge. Secular workplaces celebrate Pride Month with no regard for anyone that might not agree with it. It is a really tough context, and the allies, frankly, are the most vicious in their defense. So this is a really challenging time for Christians who hold to a traditional biblical sexual ethic. It's hard, and the thought of engaging these conversations can be terrifying and paralyzing.

So the challenge is, and what I want to begin to unpack is, how should a faithful follower of Jesus live in a Pride Month world? How do we do that? Let's talk a little bit about some key assumptions. The first step in engaging this topic is to recognize that beneath the mask of intense moral conviction, there is actually deep confusion and brokenness.

At the core of the confusion today is the circular statement, "love is love." Now, this statement is a banner for LGBTQ+ rights and it implies that people should be free to love whoever they want, however they want. But the question, of course, is: what is love? Pop culture messages on love are so confused and conflicted. Love is sex, love is lust, love is a feeling, love is whatever I want it to be.

The reality is that we are just confused and we are desperate for belonging and acceptance. That is the core truth that you can hold on to, is that people are desiring belonging and acceptance but they have no idea where to find it. Even within the LGBTQ+ movement itself, there is so much confusion, division, and incoherence.

The lesbians and old-school feminists are fighting with the transgender movement because what are women's rights if there is no such thing as a woman? Mental healthcare is in disarray because no longer are we seeking to align people's mental state to their physical realities or objective truth, but instead align their bodies to their psychological feelings. It is a crazy, confusing time.

As we already discussed as it relates to politics, Jesus's response to the confusion was compassion. That is always Jesus's response. When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them because they were confused and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. So like Jesus, as we engage this topic, we need to start from a place of radical love and mercy.

Part of approaching this with love is approaching it with empathy, which means that we need to understand their reality properly so that we can have a better empathy. While some of the explosive growth in those that identify as LGBTQ+ is just a trend, and oftentimes when people are looking for a place to connect and belong and be affirmed, they are going to identify this way, but many people really do experience same-sex attraction.

They do experience gender dysphoria and other things that are confusing as it relates to their sexuality. Over the years, debates have raged about whether you are born gay or whether it is a choice, and the truth is that the reasons are complex and they are not the same for everyone. Then we need to make a critical distinction between temptation and sinful action.

It is a really clear thing because temptation is not a sin, but the action in thought and deed in response to the temptation is. We know this because Hebrews 4:15 tells us that Jesus was tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he did not sin. He was tempted, but he did not sin. The truth is that we are all sexually broken, all of us.

Each one of us to some degree is the product of sin of others, our own sin, and our fallen nature. So that is why we approach this whole topic with humility, empathy, and compassion, because we are all in that place of brokenness. It changes the approach and the mentality that we have when we engage people. Then we can approach it with love in action.

We have talked about this in other contexts, but one of the lies of our culture is that in order to love someone, I must affirm their lifestyle and behavior. This is one of the biggest challenges as it relates to sexuality. As we engage this topic, particularly if we are engaging people that are hostile, this is actually the first assumption that we need to challenge.

We can't talk about is homosexuality a sin or God's original design for the body. We need to talk about: can I love you without agreeing with you? That is the first thing that I need to talk about. You are actually going to love them even though you disagree with them. Remember that people are longing for deep relational connection. That is an assumption you need to remember is always true.

If you can continue to be a friend and develop authentic relationships with people, you are able to show them Jesus through your actions. That is often where it starts. That doesn't mean compromising our theological beliefs at all. Again, remember that being in a relationship and association with someone is not synonymous with affirming their lifestyle. It's about challenging that lie that stands in the way of them meeting Jesus.

I will give you an example of this. This is Josiah. So it was me and Serena, and we met him at a park and started to talk to him. It turned out he's kind of a pretty lonely guy and we started to talk to him about what was going on in his life. He told us his life story. He had grown up in a Catholic church, but it didn't mean all that much to him. He went to college, walked away from it all, and ended up becoming gay.

He had just moved to Minneapolis, but he was pretty disconnected. He had a boyfriend, but they had just broken up and he was feeling pretty lonely. So we just began to talk to him. We were pretty clear from the beginning that we were Christians, but we just began to talk and develop a relationship and ask him about other stuff in his life. It is not always about sexuality; they have more to them.

He was an artist and he was showing some of the art that he was creating and that he was working on a business. I was like, "That's cool. I have a little bit of business background. We should get together, maybe I can help you with your business plan." He was like, "Yeah, that would be awesome." So we exchanged contact information. A few weeks later, we met at a Caribou Coffee and we looked at his business stuff.

We just talked about how he can do this business well and what were some things he needed to be thinking about. Then I began to challenge him. I said, "Being in business is hard, and you need to find something, an identity that can't be shaken, because you are going to come across storms and you need to look to something that is going to hold you in the storm. For me, I find my identity in the unconditional love of God."

No matter what I do or no matter what happens to me, I know that that unconditional love of God will never go away. That is where I put my hope. I didn't tell him, "Now you have to." I said, "Now you have to find your thing that you are going to hold on to that circumstances can't shake." I said a little later, "The goal of just making as much money as possible isn't enough. You need to find a purpose, a purpose that is beyond just making money."

I believe that each of us was put on this planet for a purpose and that we are called to find that purpose and live that out. What I was doing was I was challenging the narrative that there is no purpose, that there is no purpose for our bodies, and that there is no purpose of trying to align ourselves to a transcendent purpose.

Again, I was having a spiritual conversation, not a gospel conversation, and I was having a friendship conversation with a guy who had grown up in the church but had rejected it and is walking in a lifestyle in which he believes Christians are his enemies. So this is the kind of approach that we have to take if we are going to engage people in this community.

Guest (Male): You're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and we will continue this lesson from guest teacher Aaron Pierce in a moment. But before we continue, did you know there's a free app that puts years of Bible teaching right in your pocket? Searchable by topic, so you can find scriptural wisdom the moment you actually need it. It's all available for you on the Chip Ingram app. Look up Chip Ingram in your App Store and download it today. Now let's continue today's lesson.

Aaron Pierce: Now, a couple of other key things to understand in terms of just when you are engaging the topic, because there are some key assumptions. The key spiritual apologetic assumption that you are challenging is related to purpose. Because the question is: is there a transcendent, universal purpose for sex and marriage and our bodies? That is the question.

Or are marriage and traditional sex ethics a social construct that can and perhaps should be abolished for the sake of personal happiness? In the secular world, meaning and purpose are self-defined. So there is no transcendent designer that has imparted a particular way to live our lives. In this world, you use sex, which is now devoid of the consequence of procreation, thanks to contraception and abortion, as a personal source of pleasure and self-expression.

It's governed only by the concept of mutual consent. That is the only thing that you have to stay within. So sex in any form or context that does no harm to others is viewed as the ultimate expression of freedom and it's this liberating unshackling of social constraints that have oppressed our true identities. That is the worldview that shapes the sexual ethics that we have today.

You can't be your whole self, I heard this in this conversation, if you listen to the rules of others. Of course, sadly, the consequences of this sexual free-for-all is a completely different story. Loneliness, anxiety, and depression are at epidemic levels, especially amongst young adults. Sexual violence has been linked to copious amounts of viewing increasingly hardcore pornography, and sexual satisfaction has plummeted.

So sexual freedom has instead led to bondage and addiction. Now, in the Christian worldview, we want to present a positive view of sexuality, a positive vision for sexuality. We were created intentionally by God. He created our bodies, minds, and souls with a clear purpose and a way to operate them, as revealed in the Bible, that will allow us to thrive—to thrive spiritually, physically, emotionally, and sexually.

So God's design for sex and marriage and our body is not about control or limiting our happiness. It's about protecting us from harm and allowing us to thrive. That is why he has created his way of doing things. This is true in other areas as well, and this is one of the ways you can make this logic leap. The more scientists discover about the body as it relates to nutrition and exercise, the more we can align ourselves to that truth.

Like there are certain foods that we are learning aren't really good for us, so I should stop doing that so I can live in alignment with the truth of how my body was designed to operate. That is a truth that secular culture will buy into by and large. It's the same truth as it relates to our sexuality. Because what happens is we are trying to approach someone with love and we want to point them to Jesus, but inevitably you are going to have someone say, "Well, is homosexuality a sin? Do you affirm homosexuals?"

Dudging that question at that point is just unhelpful. So what do you do in that moment? Here is how I think you should handle it. First of all, I usually respond with, "Well, do you really want to know?" What I am begging the question there is: are you—do you really want to hear what I have to say or are you just looking to fight me? Even by asking that question, it makes them go, "No, yeah, I do really want to know what you have to say."

Then the second thing I will say is, "Okay, well, if you want to understand my view on sexuality, you need to see it in context." Too often we just take it out of context and we don't understand where that all fits in. So if I am going to explain it to you, let me give you the context. The context here is that I believe that every one of us has incredible value because we were created by God.

That he loves us and knows us and that he created us for a purpose and that because of that, no matter how I live my life, every person deserves to be treated with love and dignity and respect. So I'm challenging the first narrative already in that. And I'm also giving a basis for human value and dignity that the secular worldview does not have.

And then I say, "And because I believe that we are created by God on purpose, that he created us to live in a certain way for our good. That his rules are not about control or limiting our freedom or fun; it's about he's like a good dad that wants the best for us and that when we live in alignment with that, it's how we thrive and how we are healthy."

So my view on sexual ethic fits there. Now, you may not agree with it, but you understand that it doesn't mean I hate people and it doesn't mean that I want to take away your fun, but I actually want what's best for you. And that is the basis why I believe that sexuality is intended between one man and one woman in the context of marriage. That is how it is for our good. Now, that's the context from which I can explain it. Now, they may still be offended or they may still not like it, but at least they understand the context. That is my encouragement; that is the way you can approach that question if it comes up.

Last thing: it is Jesus first. Sexuality, behavior, and discipleship second. The goal here is that we are introducing people to the person of Jesus and as they get to know Jesus, then the secondary things of their behavior and their sin will be dealt with afterwards. One of the challenges for the LGBTQ+ community and secular culture in general, especially those that grew up in the church, is they have a very legalistic view of Christianity.

The LGBTQ+ community in particular believes that to become a Christian, I have to act and behave a certain way first. That's not true. They don't understand God's grace and unconditional love. What they don't understand is that submitting my sexuality to God's design is a discipleship issue based on trust that God is good, which means I know him, I trust him, and that his ways are better than my ways.

Until I have an encounter with the living God made possible by Jesus's death and resurrection and I surrender my life to him and invite the Holy Spirit to live in me, none of that will make sense. It doesn't make sense to give up my sexuality unless I know a good God who I trust and who I will submit to. So that's why they need to encounter Jesus.

So as with anyone, the goal is not to convince them to adopt your moral framework, but to introduce them to the person of Jesus. Jesus is the ultimate answer to the intimacy that we seek. He's the only one that will satisfy our deepest desire for belonging and acceptance. When I experience the profound love of Jesus and understand the beauty of who he is and what he has done for me, all that the world has to offer pales in comparison.

I love the song "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus" that says, "Turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace." So rather than focusing on their behavior, focus on introducing them to the person of Jesus and surrendering their life to Jesus. They are convicted and empowered by the Holy Spirit to make him Lord of every part of their life, including their sexuality.

Guest (Male): You're listening to Living on the Edge and a lesson from guest teacher Aaron Pierce called "Let's Talk about the Hard Stuff." If you've missed any part of our series called Caring Enough to Connect, don't forget you can always catch it again whenever it's convenient by subscribing to the Living on the Edge podcast.

Everything Aaron has poured into this series called Caring Enough to Connect comes together in his study resource called "Not Beyond Reach Participant's Guide." Across ten video-based sessions, it carries you across these important topics: starting spiritual conversations, introducing the person of Jesus, and navigating tough subjects with grace and conviction.

It's built for small groups but just as valuable for a parent, a grandparent, or anyone wanting practical tools for reaching more people with Jesus. Each session includes discussion questions and exercises built to push your group past simply talking about these ideas into actually living them out. So don't wait; get your copy today by going to livingontheedge.org/offers.

Somewhere in your life, there's a person who feels unreachable, whether it's a child, a neighbor, or a coworker. This ministry exists to remind both of you that no one really is beyond God's reach. Teaching like today's only continues to go out to homes like yours because listeners choose again and again to stand behind it financially.

Wherever you're listening from today, we invite you to support this ministry with a generous gift. Just visit us online at livingontheedge.org or call 888-333-6003. You can also send your gift by mail addressed to Living on the Edge, PO Box 3007, Suwanee, Georgia 30024. Now here's Chip Ingram with Aaron to close us up.

Chip Ingram: Thanks, Dave. Well, Aaron, you have wrapped up your series today by pressing I think maybe the biggest hot button issue and conflict between the church and culture there is. This tension between loving and holding to the truth, affirming people, but at the same time not affirming a moral lifestyle that contradicts what is best for people because God has made it really clear.

It reminds me of just the need to be bold and winsome, to be loving. This message really reminded me of a lady that I've read some of in the last few years that has been really powerful. She's such a sharp intellect. Her name is Dr. Rosaria Butterfield. She was a very outspoken lesbian and she tells the story of meeting for dinner with a pastor and his wife. She knew where they stood, they knew where she stood, and for a couple of years, almost every week they would have dinner and they were just friends.

It was a safe place and she could ask all her questions and they could have disagreements. She has this great line: "So many people talk about my conversion and the change in my life and they always want to bring up my homosexuality. Little did people know that homosexuality wasn't the big issue in my life. My sin before a holy God, that was the big issue."

It was out of the bridge and the friendship and the love and the Bible and the truth and their life that brought her where the Spirit of God would reveal to her what she needed was a Savior, and that Savior is Jesus. That is the message of this book, isn't it, Aaron? And it's really that we need to build bridges, we need to love, we need to stand strong on the truth, but we have to do it in a winsome, loving way that accepts people where they're at, builds a relationship, opens the door to spiritual conversations.

Then after that, you have a gospel conversation where we bring them to the point where they realize there is a Savior who loves them and loves us right where we are. I just want to say, Aaron, thank you so much for sharing with the Living on the Edge family. I'd just like to end this whole series by giving you a chance to kind of answer one question: what do you hope that people would get from listening to this series and from reading the book that we have put together?

Aaron Pierce: Thank you, Chip. It's been such an honor and a privilege to be able to do this with you. My prayer is that this book and the series that we're doing together would just be a source of hope and encouragement for parents and grandparents and for pastors and youth and young adults, that this generation, while often it can feel very challenging, this generation is not beyond reach.

Guest (Male): And if you'd like to go deeper with everything Aaron has shared with us, look for his book called "Not Beyond Reach" at livingontheedge.org. Well, that's all for today. Join us next time here on Living on the Edge. Today's program is produced and sponsored by Living on the Edge.