Key Life Network

Guest (Male): Is the devil the choir director in heaven? The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

If you think laughter isn't spiritual, or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn't for you.

But if you're looking for honest biblical answers to hard questions, then welcome to Key Life. Here's our host, author, and seminary professor Steve Brown along with Pete Allenson from Forge Truth.

Steve Brown: Thank you, Matthew. Hey, Pete.

Pete Allenson: All right, that's the strangest question we've ever dealt with.

Steve Brown: We're going to have a great discussion about that because we already have. We've decided, by the way, our producer, Jeremy, is an incredible musician.

He's on the board of the Grammys. He did all the music for ESPN at Christmas. So you've heard his music all over the country. And we've, as we've discussed this, we've decided that music is of the devil. And that he needs to repent for doing all of that stuff. But it's going to be an interesting. You going to say something? Yeah, you pulled up the microphone. I thought, you know, okay.

All right. Pete comes in every week and we answer questions and we do love getting your questions. We think the only dumb question's the one you don't ask. And it's very easy to ask a question. You can call 1-800 Key Life. And that's 1-800-539-5433.

Incidentally, I give the numbers for that as well as the Key Life because a very dear lady, who's a friend of Key Life, is blind. And she said, "When you say 1-800 Key Life, that causes me a problem. I can find the numbers." And so she suggested that I always give the numbers.

And being the kind, compassionate, and sensitive person that I am, I try to do that. Or you can send your if you believe that, you'll believe anything. Or you can send your question to Key Life Network, Post Office Box 5000, Maitland, Florida, 32794.

In Canada, it's Key Life Canada, Post Office Box 28060, Waterloo, Ontario, N2L6J8. Or you can send your question email to Steve at Keylife.org. And if you can help us financially, please do. If you can help us a lot financially, I'll quit asking you.

But I promise that we'll be as faithful with your gift as you were in giving it. And if you can't, we certainly understand. If you think of it, say a prayer for this ministry. Pete, why don't you lead us in prayer and we'll get to these questions.

Pete Allenson: You got it. Let's pray together. Father, we come to you today on this Friday at the end of the week, and we we pause. We take a deep breath and we thank you for who you are. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We glorify you, our God of creation, the God of providence, who takes care of us. The God who takes care of those who follow you and even those who don't follow you. You bring rain, sunshine, food to the just and the unjust.

But we are grateful that you have sent a redeemer for us, and that we've been brought back from the dead, that we've been given new life, that we've been given new hope, and that we can grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ every day of our life, because Jesus all because of what you have done for us.

And so at the end of this week, we honor you, we glorify you, and we ask, Holy Spirit, that you would fill us as well as we ask that you would fill our worship leaders, pastors, priests, teachers, worship directors, all those that will lead us. Oh Lord, protect your church.

Use your church. Unleash your church on a world that desperately needs to know of your grace and of your goodness and of your great salvation, Jesus. So we pray for our spiritual leaders and we pray that you would do great things this weekend. We commit our time of Q&A to you right now as we pray in Jesus name. Amen.

Steve Brown: Amen. Let's go to our phone lines.

Guest (Male): was listening to your program in regards to the comments on Lucifer and music, and what the person who was questioning you was referring to was Ezekiel chapter 28 verse 13. This is referring to Lucifer. "The workmanship of thy taborets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created." Now, I've heard many theologians state through the years that Lucifer himself had musical instruments built into his body.

Steve Brown: Yeah. That's no. I as I I remember the discussion, but I think we were making a joke. I thought a pastor had said that that Lucifer was a choir director. I don't know.

Pete Allenson: At one time maybe.

Steve Brown: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's that's an interesting thing and we looked up the passage and it's accurate.

Pete Allenson: I mean, we see it there. There there are footnotes in the original text. Depending on what translation of scripture you're using there. But I mean, maybe, maybe. I would say from a you know, hermeneutical standpoint. Hermeneutics is the science and art of biblical interpretation. We'd say, you know, that may be true, but it's it's not a necessary inference from the text.

Steve Brown: No, it might be true, but it's not necessarily true.

Pete Allenson: Right. And therefore we we're loath to build major doctrines on obscure passages.

Steve Brown: But we do know, and and maybe we ought to say this, that Lucifer was a pretty big deal in heaven.

Pete Allenson: Yeah, yeah.

Steve Brown: You know, I think you can ascertain that from a lot of scripture that he wasn't a baby angel who didn't count. He was somebody who could lead others into his way.

Pete Allenson: That's right.

Steve Brown: But maybe, maybe a part of that was that he was a choir director before the fall, not after the fall from heaven.

Pete Allenson: Right.

Steve Brown: And so, could be. But if your theologians have made it like it came from Sinai, don't listen to anything else they say about doctrine. Okay.

Pete Allenson: Be cautious on that. And be careful of calling your own worship directors Lucifer.

Steve Brown: Oh no. You know, I have. You know what I miss a lot? One of my favorite things that I ever did in ministry was singing in the choir.

Pete Allenson: I know. I know hardly anybody has choirs anymore, but you sang in our choir. I loved it. And they loved you and I mean, you could always hear you when you were.

Steve Brown: Well, if they didn't want me to sing too loud because I don't sing well.

Pete Allenson: You do. You're you're in tune.

Steve Brown: You were. I was kind of in tune. At any rate, I the first choir practice I ever went to was at our church. You were the pastor. And this little girl standing beside me looked over and said, "Mr. Brown, I'm so sorry, but I don't know who in the world you are." And I thought, you know, I'm home. This is so good. I can hardly stand it.

Pete Allenson: Oh my goodness.

Steve Brown: And it became a wonderful thing and we did it for years.

Pete Allenson: You did.

Steve Brown: Oh. This is an email. "In the Bible, there are references to someone living 700 years or 136 years, or even more. Were the years measured just like we measure ours presently? If not, how was it measured and what is the equivalent of our present time?"

Pete Allenson: Yeah, I mean that that's one of the that's one of those statements people say, "Well, there must have been a different calculation for years back then."

Steve Brown: People don't live that long.

Pete Allenson: People don't live that long. I think we both agree that those were legitimate years as recorded in scripture. And that closer, this is what's helped me, closer to the early days of mankind, and certainly a lot of those were before the fall, or before the flood, excuse me. And and so that they're obviously not living as as long now as as society as the world is winding down.

Steve Brown: And the genetic stuff that happened in the fall had not fully developed. So people lived a lot longer.

Pete Allenson: That's right. And that's how the human race was developed.

Steve Brown: Would you like to live 700 years?

Pete Allenson: You know, interesting. If I could if I could be live 700 years at 25. You know, there are movies about that. If you stayed perpetually 25.

Steve Brown: So you'd do it if you could do it if you stayed doing it.

Pete Allenson: No. The movies are the movies are not positive about that.

Steve Brown: You know, one of the things about being old is being bored. Sometimes things that used to just you were so excited about, you go, you yawn. Because I've seen that. I've been there and I've done that a thousand times.

Pete Allenson: Okay, there it is.

Steve Brown: Man, 700 years, I'd be bored nuts.

Pete Allenson: Well, if you could keep that elasticity of your mind of a 25, 30 year old. Whatever. I don't know. Anyway, we're not going to figure that one out here. There we go.

Steve Brown: This an email too. "I get the impression that not all Bible promises can be applied to us right now. That some only apply to the person or situation at that time. If this is so, how can we tell the difference?"

Pete Allenson: Yeah, how do you start answering that?

Steve Brown: Well, I think you can tell the difference by context. Ask what's going on and what's promised and is it relative to a particular context?

Pete Allenson: Uh-huh.

Steve Brown: But with that being said, I think all the promises of the Bible reflect who God is, His proclivities, the way he operates, the way he works with his people. And so there is a sense where you can't apply the particular promise, but you can apply the theology of who God is to it and maybe make a personal application in our time.

Pete Allenson: I think that's a good point and an illustration of that would be like the book of Acts, where he says, "What you need to speak, when you need to speak, I'll give you the words. Don't panic." You know.

Steve Brown: Now, that was made to I forget.

Pete Allenson: The disciples.

Steve Brown: Yeah, that's right.

Pete Allenson: In particular, the apostles, the disciples as they're spreading the church.

Steve Brown: And it was their promise, meant for them in their time.

Pete Allenson: That's right. But God does that for his folks.

Steve Brown: He does that.

Pete Allenson: And it's a sort of a general principle. You know, there was an old song chorus we used to sing, "Every promise in the book is mine, every promise in the book is mine." And it was a chorus that we sang way back. And and and yet this is sort of this discussion is sort of the theological clarity to that. They are ours, but maybe not in their specific setting.

Steve Brown: Yeah.

Pete Allenson: We have to be careful.

Steve Brown: And obviously from the quote that Pete just gave, from the context of it, it's obvious that it meant for a particular situation.

Pete Allenson: That's right. That's right. And so that's probably the way you do it throughout the scriptures.

Steve Brown: I think so.

Pete Allenson: It's good.

Steve Brown: Well, having resolved that problem adequately, with great finesse, we probably ought to leave. Before we go, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.