Key Life Network

[ 0m1s528ms - 0m5s608ms ] [--Advertisement--] Did God really love Jacob and hate Esau?

[ 0m6s268ms - 0m10s168ms ] [--Advertisement--] The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

[ 0m11s95ms - 0m14s175ms ] [--Matthew--] Welcome to Key Life, our host and teacher is Steve Brown.

[ 0m14s515ms - 0m19s565ms ] He's nobody's guru, but he does have honest answers to hard questions about the Bible.

[ 0m19s645ms - 0m26s695ms ] God's grace changes everything, how we love, work, live, lead, marry, parent, evangelize and worship.

[ 0m27s155ms - 0m33s915ms ] Now, here's Steve and Pete Alwinson from Forge Truth with street smart Bible teaching for real life.

[ 0m35s363ms - 0m36s123ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Thank you, Matthew.

[ 0m36s573ms - 0m37s23ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Hi, Pete.

[ 0m37s183ms - 0m37s623ms ] [--Pete--] Amen.

[ 0m37s623ms - 0m38s233ms ] Here we go.

[ 0m38s363ms - 0m38s943ms ] [--Steve Brown--] You doing all right?

[ 0m39s393ms - 0m40s243ms ] Yeah, yeah, we go again.

[ 0m40s483ms - 0m40s853ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah.

[ 0m41s123ms - 0m41s353ms ] Yeah.

[ 0m41s353ms - 0m43s973ms ] I'm doing good, you know, this is a good time of life.

[ 0m44s363ms - 0m44s953ms ] [--Steve Brown--] It really is.

[ 0m45s103ms - 0m45s383ms ] You know.

[ 0m45s893ms - 0m51s633ms ] As long as you're not dead when you're old, you can say things you could never say before.

[ 0m52s223ms - 0m52s813ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 0m53s513ms - 0m55s13ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And they give you.

[ 0m54s293ms - 0m55s113ms ] [--Pete--] You always did that, Steve.

[ 0m55s213ms - 0m59s333ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Well, I know, but I got hit for it. Now they give me a pass.

[ 0m59s873ms - 1m1s593ms ] Yeah. That happens when you're old.

[ 1m2s343ms - 1m2s823ms ] And we're neat.

[ 1m2s823ms - 1m5s243ms ] Hey, it's good to have you with us.

[ 1m5s243ms - 1m12s383ms ] We said on a recent broadcast that we appreciated you big and we really do.

[ 1m12s653ms - 1m14s33ms ] Thanks for joining us.

[ 1m14s33ms - 1m20s763ms ] As you know, Pete comes in on Fridays and we spend the entire broadcast answering your questions.

[ 1m21s333ms - 1m22s473ms ] Which we love.

[ 1m23s433ms - 1m26s843ms ] By the way, don't forget to go to forgetruth.com.

[ 1m28s123ms - 1m30s173ms ] And if you have a question,

[ 1m30s933ms - 1m40s753ms ] just pick up the phone, call 1800 Key Life. That's 1800-539-5433.

[ 1m41s603ms - 1m51s193ms ] Or you can send your question to keylifenetwork post office box 5000, Maitland, Florida 32794.

[ 1m51s873ms - 1m53s933ms ] In Canada, it's Key Life Canada.

[ 1m54s483ms - 2m3s203ms ] Post office box 28060, Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 6J8.

[ 2m3s943ms - 2m8s303ms ] Or you can email your question to Steve@keylife.org.

[ 2m9s173ms - 2m12s183ms ] And if you can, help us financially.

[ 2m12s183ms - 2m15s373ms ] I promise we'll be faithful with your gift.

[ 2m16s23ms - 2m26s633ms ] We're a member of ECFA in the States and 4C's in Canada, both of those organizations are credentialing organizations

[ 2m27s133ms - 2m32s173ms ] to make sure that those who are part of it are honest and ethical.

[ 2m32s873ms - 2m36s123ms ] So give as much as you can.

[ 2m36s583ms - 2m41s323ms ] If you can't, say a prayer for this ministry, we'll appreciate both.

[ 2m42s83ms - 2m45s683ms ] Pete, why don't you lead us in prayer and we'll answer some questions.

[ 2m45s913ms - 2m46s703ms ] [--Pete--] Yes, let's pray.

[ 2m47s3ms - 2m53s663ms ] Our great God, what a joy at the end of this week to stop just for a minute and to realize how good you are.

[ 2m53s663ms - 2m59s263ms ] Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we come to you. We praise you and we honor you.

[ 2m59s263ms - 3m4s113ms ] And we look forward to to being with you and worship this weekend.

[ 3m4s603ms - 3m12s383ms ] Thank you that no matter wherever we are, you're with us, your spirit never leaves us, but but in church this weekend, what a joy to be with your people.

[ 3m12s383ms - 3m22s763ms ] We pray for our pastors and worship leaders and and and those that will be with the kids and all those who will make church work this weekend.

[ 3m23s223ms - 3m32s273ms ] Lord, thank you for the body of Christ. We ask that you would speak to us, build us and and continue to conform us to the image of Christ, all because of your grace.

[ 3m32s763ms - 3m38s493ms ] We thank you for this time of Q&A right now and we commit it to you in Jesus name.

[ 3m38s623ms - 3m39s23ms ] Amen.

[ 3m40s413ms - 3m41s573ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Okay, amen.

[ 3m41s963ms - 3m47s913ms ] Pete, this first question is one that I've been asked a whole lot.

[ 3m48s173ms - 3m50s583ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah.

[ 3m50s583ms - 3m54s593ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And it comes from the book of Romans. Uh, Romans is an amazing book, huh?

[ 3m55s613ms - 3m59s443ms ] Barnhouse spent years teaching the book of Romans.

[ 3m59s763ms - 4m2s823ms ] Pete spent three or four weeks on one verse.

[ 4m3s763ms - 4m13s303ms ] And it is an amazing, profound, systematic theology that is the basis of the things we believe in many ways.

[ 4m13s503ms - 4m13s633ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 4m14s643ms - 4m18s243ms ] [--Steve Brown--] But when you hit a certain chapter, ninth chapter,

[ 4m18s603ms - 4m18s833ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah.

[ 4m19s533ms - 4m26s163ms ] [--Steve Brown--] I have a friend who said he was a young pastor and he said to me, I'm going to teach Romans.

[ 4m26s163ms - 4m32s513ms ] And I said, what don't you teach John and in a few years teach Romans? It might be better.

[ 4m32s983ms - 4m34s323ms ] And he said, no, I'm going to do it now.

[ 4m34s323ms - 4m39s773ms ] So he did the first eight chapters and he hit the ninth chapter and gave it up.

[ 4m40s203ms - 4m40s493ms ] [--Pete--] No.

[ 4m40s493ms - 4m41s123ms ] Did he really?

[ 4m41s123ms - 4m42s183ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Well, he said,

[ 4m42s183ms - 4m44s303ms ] we're going to set this aside for a while.

[ 4m44s303ms - 4m44s563ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah.

[ 4m44s563ms - 4m54s333ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And he got into the ninth chapter where Paul says, and this is where the question comes from. Jacob I loved and Esau I hated.

[ 4m54s493ms - 4m54s763ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 4m55s143ms - 4m56s183ms ] [--Steve Brown--] That's not very tolerant.

[ 4m56s593ms - 4m59s793ms ] [--Pete--] It's it's it's rough, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

[ 5m0s503ms - 5m8s973ms ] But you know, we do see in the scriptures, really from Genesis to Revelation, the whole reality of of God's majestic sovereignty.

[ 5m9s323ms - 5m9s893ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah, that's true.

[ 5m10s403ms - 5m11s233ms ] [--Pete--] And we see it in Proverbs.

[ 5m11s233ms - 5m12s643ms ] Go go go to Proverbs 16.

[ 5m12s643ms - 5m15s943ms ] Read chapter 16 if you don't, if you're you want some troubles.

[ 5m16s753ms - 5m20s763ms ] I mean, he uses even the wicked for the for his goals.

[ 5m20s883ms - 5m28s623ms ] And so we see that God is all is better and bigger than us and and he has a plan.

[ 5m28s623ms - 5m30s393ms ] And he chooses.

[ 5m30s913ms - 5m32s303ms ] And And we don't get a vote.

[ 5m32s303ms - 5m33s103ms ] We don't get a vote.

[ 5m33s103ms - 5m35s363ms ] And as you've said, he does what he does right well.

[ 5m35s443ms - 5m36s273ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah.

[ 5m36s273ms - 5m36s933ms ] You know.

[ 5m37s283ms - 5m43s343ms ] And you know, the flip side of that, I mean, that, what you said, is absolute truth.

[ 5m44s113ms - 5m46s433ms ] But you can't say just that.

[ 5m46s563ms - 5m46s853ms ] [--Pete--] Right.

[ 5m47s113ms - 5m51s613ms ] [--Steve Brown--] You got to say something about God being kind and merciful and loving.

[ 5m52s143ms - 5m55s613ms ] And we're not sure how you put that all together.

[ 5m55s723ms - 5m56s113ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 5m56s593ms - 6m8s623ms ] [--Steve Brown--] But when you get in the ninth chapter, Paul is dealing in a national kind of he's not he's not talking by saying Esau, you're ugly and I dislike you.

[ 6m8s623ms - 6m15s363ms ] And Jacob, you part your hair right and you wear the right color ties, so I that's not what Romans 9 is about.

[ 6m15s563ms - 6m28s853ms ] He's dealing with a whole thing about Jewishness, about nationalism, about history, about what God is doing throughout the scriptures.

[ 6m29s643ms - 6m36s583ms ] And so you can't you can draw certain things like the doctrine of election, of course, from it.

[ 6m37s153ms - 6m39s753ms ] But that's not specifically what Paul's dealing with.

[ 6m39s883ms - 6m40s23ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 6m40s543ms - 6m42s963ms ] [--Steve Brown--] He's dealing with a national thing that has.

[ 6m42s963ms - 6m49s83ms ] In fact, that's a part of a much larger section on Jewishness and what.

[ 6m49s83ms - 6m49s183ms ] [--Pete--] That's right.

[ 6m49s183ms - 6m51s233ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Are Jews saved?

[ 6m51s233ms - 6m53s513ms ] What's going to happen?

[ 6m53s513ms - 6m56s743ms ] Did God change his mind? are there covenants?

[ 6m57s553ms - 7m6s263ms ] And John Murray, who was a professor at Westminster and one of the great theologians of our time,

[ 7m6s813ms - 7m10s333ms ] said he didn't know if he understood Romans totally.

[ 7m11s123ms - 7m21s383ms ] But he felt, and this went against what a lot of reformed people felt, he felt that God wasn't through with the Jews yet at all.

[ 7m21s563ms - 7m22s193ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 7m22s403ms - 7m22s873ms ] So.

[ 7m22s873ms - 7m23s213ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah.

[ 7m23s213ms - 7m31s413ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah, I think what you get to the end of chapter 11, you know, I I think I think he's not done with the Jews. He hasn't washed his hands with the Jews.

[ 7m31s523ms - 7m31s993ms ] [--Steve Brown--] That's true.

[ 7m32s33ms - 7m33s923ms ] [--Pete--] The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

[ 7m34s323ms - 7m37s813ms ] And so Jews are coming to faith in Christ and will come to faith in Christ.

[ 7m37s813ms - 7m38s93ms ] [--Steve Brown--] That's true.

[ 7m38s93ms - 7m39s593ms ] [--Pete--] Until the end of the age.

[ 7m40s413ms - 7m40s773ms ] So.

[ 7m41s223ms - 7m47s563ms ] [--Steve Brown--] But it's you know, as we even talk about this year, it's obvious there's confusion.

[ 7m47s563ms - 7m47s963ms ] [--Pete--] There is.

[ 7m48s363ms - 7m48s773ms ] [--Steve Brown--] I mean,

[ 7m48s953ms - 7m53s733ms ] God is a God is infinite and we're finite.

[ 7m54s533ms - 8m7s433ms ] And he communicates truth to us we can understand, but sometimes if you've never stood before God and been totally confused, you're probably worshipping an idol.

[ 8m7s513ms - 8m7s933ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 8m8s63ms - 8m13s923ms ] Yeah, and so, so really, we encourage people who struggle with this and thank you for the question for sending it in.

[ 8m14s333ms - 8m31s653ms ] You struggle with God's election and what is God doing? There's a lot that, you know, as John Calvin has said, the Bible is God's baby talk. And so we have to understand that he is infinite in his knowledge and his plans and in everything, and infinitely good, too.

[ 8m31s843ms - 8m32s113ms ] [--Steve Brown--] It really is.

[ 8m32s113ms - 8m32s423ms ] Yeah.

[ 8m32s423ms - 8m36s413ms ] [--Pete--] So there is a humility that a Christian brings to needs to bring the scripture.

[ 8m36s573ms - 8m36s793ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah.

[ 8m37s203ms - 8m40s103ms ] [--Pete--] And realize that we're not going to understand everything.

[ 8m40s103ms - 8m50s563ms ] And that's okay, and that and that we bow, we seek to understand, but that we at the end of the day, humbly recognize that God is sovereign over all and can be trusted.

[ 8m50s563ms - 8m51s993ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah, and what the word says.

[ 8m51s993ms - 8m53s383ms ] It's so true. bottom line.

[ 8m53s473ms - 8m53s663ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah.

[ 8m54s343ms - 9m0s23ms ] [--Steve Brown--] I can't tell you the times and it happens a lot if you read the scripture with depth.

[ 9m0s793ms - 9m2s413ms ] Lord, I don't understand this.

[ 9m2s413ms - 9m2s823ms ] [--Pete--] That's right.

[ 9m3s483ms - 9m10s953ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And then you dig, and you learn, and you grow, but sometimes when you've done all you can do, you'd still say.

[ 9m10s953ms - 9m20s353ms ] There's I did what First Peter, it seems to say in the third chapter that the dead were given the gospel, so they got a second chance.

[ 9m20s353ms - 9m22s123ms ] But we know that's not true.

[ 9m22s123ms - 9m22s543ms ] [--Pete--] That's right.

[ 9m23s143ms - 9m27s373ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And so I said when I got to that, I was teaching First Peter.

[ 9m27s863ms - 9m31s393ms ] And I said, I have no idea.

[ 9m31s393ms - 9m34s633ms ] What God and and that got sent out across the country.

[ 9m34s633ms - 9m37s453ms ] I got letters from everywhere.

[ 9m37s453ms - 9m39s203ms ] [--Pete--] You're supposed to know, Dr. Brown.

[ 9m39s203ms - 9m40s193ms ] [--Steve Brown--] No, this.

[ 9m40s193ms - 9m43s903ms ] You don't know, so I'm going to teach you what he was saying.

[ 9m44s793ms - 9m48s833ms ] So, so sometimes you got to say, I got a great answer for you. I'm not sure.

[ 9m48s833ms - 9m50s673ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[ 9m50s673ms - 9m54s773ms ] And here one last thing on this, that is so encouraging about the Bible.

[ 9m55s203ms - 10m2s673ms ] Keep reading, because in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, you'll know way more than you know now.

[ 10m2s673ms - 10m6s693ms ] There's a progressive unfolding of truth that the Holy Spirit does.

[ 10m6s693ms - 10m7s753ms ] [--Steve Brown--] There really is.

[ 10m7s753ms - 10m12s63ms ] [--Pete--] And that's why the Bible, people say, I read the Bible. You read it once? Really?

[ 10m12s63ms - 10m12s403ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Really?

[ 10m12s403ms - 10m16s873ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah, I've been reading it for 50 years. I'm still learning like crazy.

[ 10m17s183ms - 10m21s973ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And you know, the questions I have now are not the questions I had 15 years ago.

[ 10m22s123ms - 10m22s743ms ] [--Pete--] That's right. That's right.

[ 10m23s63ms - 10m25s293ms ] Those have pretty much been settled.

[ 10m25s293ms - 10m27s833ms ] But I got new ones because he's big.

[ 10m27s833ms - 10m28s193ms ] [--Pete--] That's right.

[ 10m28s553ms - 10m29s133ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Okay.

[ 10m30s53ms - 10m31s933ms ] Please explain.

[ 10m32s513ms - 10m33s493ms ] No, that's the one we just did.

[ 10m34s323ms - 10m35s43ms ] This is it.

[ 10m35s43ms - 10m36s523ms ] As this is an email.

[ 10m36s523ms - 10m44s953ms ] As Christians, should we use discernment in what movies we watch, music we listen to, and the like?

[ 10m45s503ms - 10m46s433ms ] [--Pete--] Absolutely.

[ 10m46s793ms - 10m47s433ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah.

[ 10m47s433ms - 10m48s703ms ] [--Pete--] Yeah, yeah.

[ 10m48s703ms - 10m54s503ms ] I I really do think I I I like movies and I watch a whole lot fewer of them now.

[ 10m55s443ms - 11m6s403ms ] Um, because movies are the images and and what they're portraying.

[ 11m6s403ms - 11m6s523ms ] It's it's one of the biggest tools of cultural conditioning that is is around us every day.

[ 11m6s523ms - 11m10s193ms ] And so we do need to be exercise discernment.

[ 11m10s403ms - 11m14s693ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And we have to be careful that we don't universalize our taste.

[ 11m14s763ms - 11m15s163ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 11m15s863ms - 11m24s453ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Uh, we interviewed a guy, I wish I could remember his name on our talk show who wrote a book called Movies saved my soul.

[ 11m24s643ms - 11m25s43ms ] [--Pete--] Mm.

[ 11m25s43ms - 11m31s533ms ] [--Steve Brown--] And he was a movie critic and he began to show that they're biblical themes in a lot of movies.

[ 11m31s633ms - 11m31s843ms ] [--Pete--] There are.

[ 11m32s173ms - 11m36s123ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah. Even movies that are R-rated, there's some biblical themes there.

[ 11m36s453ms - 11m41s903ms ] [--Pete--] The themes of redemption are are are in the human human race.

[ 11m41s903ms - 11m42s243ms ] [--Steve Brown--] They really are.

[ 11m42s593ms - 11m47s813ms ] [--Pete--] And and they cannot be excised and so we you will see those in movies from time to time.

[ 11m48s173ms - 11m48s523ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah.

[ 11m48s623ms - 11m52s173ms ] [--Pete--] God can use even bad stuff or marginal stuff.

[ 11m52s173ms - 11m55s123ms ] And there's some good there are some really good movies out there.

[ 11m55s413ms - 11m56s63ms ] [--Steve Brown--] Yeah, there are.

[ 11m56s63ms - 12m20s773ms ] And and what we have to be careful about is becoming the old Christian who says you can't, a Christian can't dance, a Christian can't go to movies, a Christian can't hang out with anybody who does. And all of a sudden you're into a very unbiblical territory.

[ 12m21s23ms - 12m27s283ms ] [--Pete--] There there are times we need to try and redeem some of those areas and move into those areas and art and that's leadership and business. Yes.

[ 12m27s363ms - 12m35s753ms ] [--Steve Brown--] a lot of Christian movies that today are are art forms, they're amazing and and um that's a good thing.

[ 12m35s753ms - 12m36s633ms ] So,

[ 12m37s203ms - 12m40s273ms ] you pray about it, use your own discernment.

[ 12m40s273ms - 12m42s243ms ] Make sure that you're biblical.

[ 12m43s3ms - 12m45s363ms ] And then pick carefully.

[ 12m46s23ms - 12m48s773ms ] Hey guys, thanks for joining us for this.

[ 12m48s773ms - 12m51s343ms ] We love having you, but we got to go.

[ 12m52s83ms - 12m56s343ms ] Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.