SEKULOW

Logan Sekulow: Welcome to Sekulow. We made it, folks. It's Friday. Phone lines are open for you: 1-800-684-3110. Wrapping up our Stop the Madness week here at the ACLJ, where we're going to uncover a lot of the great work the ACLJ is doing that you frankly couldn't imagine is actually happening a lot of times in our own country.

Today we're going to be taking you over to California. Of course, we're going to be talking about our case in support of Calvary Chapel and against Gavin Newsom and the State of California. We'll discuss that a little bit later. We also have Rick Grenell coming on in the next segment, so you're not going to want to miss that.

Today, the big news of the morning is Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Intelligence. She has been a friend of ours, a colleague of ours, and a contributor to this show for a number of years before she was given that position. What I like about her is that it feels like no stones are left unturned. It doesn't matter how many years ago we're going to go back, and this one isn't that many years ago. We're going back just to the 2024 election.

A report came out from our friends at Just The News saying that there was a multi-million dollar, hundreds of millions of dollars of potential fraud going on, specifically to bolster the Biden re-election campaign, and it's coming from a foreign source.

Will: That's right. For those of you that watch the show, this may not sound shocking, but it is shocking to me when you read that there are intercepts that were in the possession of our government. Intelligence agencies got these intercepts from Ukrainian government officials and Ukrainian government communications. As far back as 2022, the US government had these.

They talk about a plot that would redirect USAID money that was earmarked for clean energy projects in Ukraine to be funneled back to the United States and into the coffers of the Democratic National Committee as well as the Joe Biden re-election campaign. We've been concerned about the Ukrainian issue for as long as Joe Biden was a candidate for public office as far as the presidency.

This report shows that there's a summary of these raw intercepts that say that the Ukrainian government and unspecified US government personnel through USAID in Kyiv reportedly developed a plan that would provide hundreds of millions of US taxpayer dollars to fund an infrastructure project in Ukraine that would actually be used as cover to send approximately 90% of funds allocated to the DNC to fund Joe Biden's re-election campaign.

This is shocking. It is newly uncovered. We obviously know that the intelligence agencies that had possession of this were under the Joe Biden administration. What Tulsi Gabbard is now doing is a massive investigation into this, finding out through records as well as other ways to find out if this plot was carried out, and whether a criminal referral should be made to the FBI.

We've talked about corruption in Ukraine, we've talked about the election interference from these governments, but right here, you're seeing that even the administration under Joe Biden had receipt of this.

Logan Sekulow: I want you to understand, folks. It's not saying now, because I think a lot of people in the podcast world seem to get caught up in this kind of thing, which is not now saying, "Look at this corruption happening in Ukraine. That must make Russia the good guy." No. What it shows is there is corruption happening at all levels of politics, including here in America.

Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. When we get back, who are we going to hear from? A former Director of National Intelligence, Rick Grenell, who's going to be on the broadcast. Make sure you don't go anywhere. It's going to be a short break. In that break, I'm going to encourage you. It's the last day of Stop the Madness.

Be a part of it and have your donation doubled today at ACLJ.org. Again, all donations are doubled right now, dollar for dollar. Help defend our incredible clients. Help keep this show on the air. That's at ACLJ.org.

Guest (Male): Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might worry about the country you'll leave behind for your kids and grandkids. You might feel you have no say over it or your voice has no power. You make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting in courtrooms across the country, defending your right to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to ACLJ.org/difference, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled, dollar for dollar, to defend your most essential liberties.

You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to ACLJ.org/double today.

Logan Sekulow: We've witnessed monumental legal victories for defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over.

The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy, and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world. This fight isn't just the ACLJ's. It's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded.

None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It's been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at ACLJ.org/freedom.

Guest (Male): Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might worry about the country you'll leave behind for your kids and grandkids. You might feel you have no say over it or your voice has no power. You make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting in courtrooms across the country, defending your right to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to ACLJ.org/difference, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled, dollar for dollar, to defend your most essential liberties.

You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to ACLJ.org/double today.

Logan Sekulow: Welcome back to Sekulow. Rick Grenell is joining us right now. Of course, we are, if you're just joining us, a lot of you are right now, let me know where you're watching from. It's an easy way. I love seeing where everyone's coming from worldwide. I think that's what's really cool about the way we're able to present this broadcast now; worldwide, there are people watching.

When you travel around the world, you start to notice how much American news, American politics, American pop culture influences the world. If you turn on Sky News or the BBC when you're in London, wherever it may be, often the faces you're going to see are the faces you're going to see here: President Trump, whoever it may be, are showing up on the news because what happens here really does influence the world.

With that, of course, we are talking about this Just The News coverage, this breaking news that came out. Again, it's not necessarily shocking news, Will, that the Ukrainian government potentially—it's sad that that's not shocking, by the way. It's sad that that's not shocking. Well, maybe it's shocking because it's to the tune of hundreds of millions or whatever it may be.

Will: Rick, this is John Solomon, our friend over at Just The News. He's on this broadcast often and has this report. It's one of the only places you can see this report. It is coming off of a declassified summary from our government that apparently, during the Biden administration, they intercepted communications between the Ukrainian government and unspecified US government personnel through USAID. They were coming up with this plot to funnel taxpayer dollars through a clean energy program in Ukraine back to the DNC and the re-election of Joe Biden. When you saw this, does it ring true that this could be something that could have happened?

Rick Grenell: First of all, raise your hand if you're shocked that this didn't leak out during the Biden administration. Every little piece of information is manipulated from the intelligence agency when it is an anti-Republican moment. And yet here we have the raw intelligence showing that the Ukrainians were trying to funnel money, US taxpayer money, back to the Biden campaign in order to help them win.

Now, let's unpack this. They wanted Biden to win because they were getting money from Biden for this war between Russia and Ukraine. They didn't want the money to end. So they were willing to sacrifice a couple of hundred million dollars to send it back to the political system in America, even though it started with US taxpayer dollars.

It was supposed to go for an energy program. Instead, the allegation is that it went back and helped Biden's campaign. This is outrageous. This should be on the front-page news. We should be investigating this. Thank God that Tulsi is the one that has found this and declassified this, and now they're trying to figure out if any of the money actually went into the campaign.

Will: Rick, this story to me has so many elements to it that should be almost vindicating to people on the right and the conservative media that have been talking and raising questions, genuine questions. Was there corruption between the Bidens and the Ukrainians? Well, that'll get you impeached and kicked off social media if you ask that, and you'll have all the intelligence community writing a very strongly worded letter against you if you were to say that.

Once again, people that say, "I feel like a lot of this clean energy initiative is kind of a scam," how dare you? You climate denier, you want everyone in the world to lose their cities and have all these things bad happen, apocalyptic things happen because you deny climate. Yet in this one story—and it's not like it's some random person—these are intercepts within the government that now the investigation is whether or not people acted on this.

But the intercepts clearly showed that there was a plot, whether or not it went forward, that encompassed all the things that if you were a conservative questioning, you were canceled and put in Facebook jail. Right here in one story.

Logan Sekulow: This is not a far-fetched idea. I think that's when you read the report, sure it's a report, we know our friends at Just The News do a great job, so I'm not questioning their report. But when you do read it, you go, "Well, yeah," as Rick stated. It's clear where they were going and why the reasons they were. You're right, a lot of money was being funneled to them, so of course they wanted to keep things going.

Rick Grenell: One of the cabinet officials in the Biden administration that literally got away without having scrutiny—she escaped public and media scrutiny—is really a shame, and now we're finding out that there's a lot here that needs to be investigated. The woman is Avril Haines, who was the DNI during Joe Biden's tenure. She's never answered the question for what was going on with all of the Ukrainian money.

Clearly, we now know that there were intelligence sources showing that it was being abused. Why didn't she come forward? Why didn't she say, "Wait a minute, lawmakers, we should do a little pause here on funding the Ukrainians until we figure out if they're playing political games with this"?

This would have been something that a real DNI who is interested in transparency would have come forward to say, "Look, I don't care if this is helping Joe Biden and the Democrats and I'm a Democrat-appointed DNI." It doesn't matter. This is the type of scandal that makes American taxpayers say, "I don't think I want to fund more intelligence programs if this is what they're up to."

Will: Once again, if you watch this broadcast, you were told from day one of the Biden administration by Rick Grenell that someone you should be concerned about in this administration is Avril Haines. You had many times mentioned that on this broadcast, so our audience understands exactly what you're talking about. But you also have to take the converse here because I think whenever you look at a story like this, what would be happening if this story were flipped?

If it were the Trump administration—not even the President himself, but someone in an agency—who talked to a foreign government about rerouting money back into the United States to fund the election, it would be everywhere. There would be an impeachment. There would be mass chaos in our country over this. Honestly, if that was something that was intercepted, there are a lot of problems with that. That's not what happened.

They will go this far saying we have to use things like the Steele dossier to try and get President Trump completely wiped out of public life. But when it comes to something that the intelligence agencies themselves picked up, there are crickets. There is one place you can find this: Just The News. Even in conservative spaces, you're not seeing this as much.

Maybe people have moved on. Maybe people have lost the appetite or gotten numb to this corruption. But when you're seeing this, I'm thankful that this government is looking into this now.

Rick Grenell: Look, I actually think that in order to restore faith in the intelligence agencies, to restore faith in the process to fund Ukraine and the war in Congress, that we need to see Avril Haines testify in Congress on this particular issue. What did she know and when did she know it? Why did she cover it up? Did she dismiss this as not being accurate, as not being real news, as being phony?

Then tell us, because right now what we see is a total cover-up from the Avril Haines intelligence community, where she knew that there was this scheme to take US taxpayer money from Ukrainian funding, pretend like it was going to an energy company, but it really was going to re-elect Joe Biden. That's a scandal.

The fact that we caught it is fantastic, but why didn't it come out then and what was done to ensure that the money didn't actually go to that campaign?

Logan Sekulow: I want to clarify something, Will. Number one: Avril Haines, no relation.

Will: No, spelled differently. The Haynes is spelled differently. I just want to make sure people don't think this is some sort of plot that we have here.

Logan Sekulow: I am the deep state. Well, you never know. You never know who you're looking at. That's why you've got people like Tulsi Gabbard. I think that's why it's important also, Rick, is you do have someone like Tulsi in this position and you've had people like you in these kind of positions, people that are not just going to say, "Well, that's old news, we're not worrying about that anymore."

They will deep dive and continue searching for really what's going on. Even if it seems, as Will said, maybe the appetite from the news media may have moved on, that doesn't matter to the people who we put in these positions.

Rick Grenell: Yeah, look, we've got to give credit to Tulsi. She actually declassified this so that we could see the whole story, that there wasn't some mystery or some leaks that are coming out with partial information. She actually declassified the whole story. Now I think it's up to Congress to take this declassified information and figure out what exactly went wrong. Why didn't we know about it then? What did Avril know and when did she know it?

Logan Sekulow: All right, thank you so much, Rick, for joining us today. Really appreciate your guidance and your thoughts always. Look, we are going to continue this conversation and I want to have that conversation with you. So if you want to call in—we have one call right now about the TSA and the shutdown of Department of Homeland Security, we'll take some of those as well.

We know that's on the top of mind for a lot of people, but we'll take calls also on this: 1-800-684-3110. Yes or no in the comments: does any of this really surprise you? I know you're interested in it. I can see the numbers; a lot of you are curious about it. But is it shocking? When we go to break, I want to know from you, yes or no. With that being said, we are also in the last day, it's Friday, last day of Stop the Madness.

The madness will somewhat continue, Will. Always, there will always be madness. But the special week will end today. We want you to have a doubled donation. So right now, double your impact at ACLJ.org. All the content there, by the way, is not behind a paywall.

So even if you become an ACLJ Champion, what you're really doing is just helping make sure this content and this legal work can continue on for free to as many people as possible. We want our content shareable. We don't want you to be forced to be a part of anything. We want you to be able to take it and share it with your friends and say, "Look what's going on in this country. Look what's going on around the world."

You don't have to go give them money to find out their opinions or thoughts or really why you should be engaging what we're doing here. But we can't do that without your support. As we head to break—it's our shortest break of the day, it's less than a minute—I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. Double your impact today as your donations are matched.

We have court cases currently against CNN, we are currently going to court against the State of California in support of this church. We have everything from street preachers all the way up to leaders in this country and around the world who are supported by the team here at the ACLJ. None of it happens without you. So have your gift doubled today at ACLJ.org. Back in less than a minute.

Guest (Male): There's a lot happening in America right now. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might feel like you have no say over it, but you make a difference.

Right now, you can make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting across the country, defending your rights to speak, pray, and even how to educate your kids. Join the fight. Go to ACLJ.org/double to have your gift doubled today.

Logan Sekulow: We've witnessed monumental legal victories for defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over.

The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy, and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world. This fight isn't just the ACLJ's. It's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded.

None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It's been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at ACLJ.org/freedom.

Guest (Male): Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might worry about the country you'll leave behind for your kids and grandkids. You might feel you have no say over it or your voice has no power. You make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting in courtrooms across the country, defending your right to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to ACLJ.org/difference, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled, dollar for dollar, to defend your most essential liberties.

You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to ACLJ.org/double today.

Logan Sekulow: Welcome back to Sekulow. Rick Grenell is joining us right now. Of course, we are, if you're just joining us, a lot of you are right now, let me know where you're watching from worldwide. I think that's what's really cool about the way we're able to present this broadcast now; worldwide, there are people watching.

When you travel around the world, you start to notice how much American news, American politics, American pop culture influences the world. If you turn on Sky News or the BBC when you're in London, wherever it may be, often the faces you're going to see are the faces you're going to see here: President Trump, whoever it may be, are showing up on the news because what happens here really does influence the world.

With that, of course, we are talking about this Just The News coverage, this breaking news really that came out. Again, it's not necessarily shocking news, Will, that the Ukrainian government potentially—it's sad that that's not shocking, by the way. It's sad that that's not shocking. Well, maybe it's shocking because it's to the tune of hundreds of millions or whatever it may be.

Will: Rick, this is John Solomon, our friend over at Just The News. He's on this broadcast often and has this report. It's one of the only places you can see this report. It is coming off of a declassified summary from our government that apparently, during the Biden administration, they intercepted communications between the Ukrainian government and unspecified US government personnel through USAID.

They were coming up with this plot to funnel taxpayer dollars through a clean energy program in Ukraine back to the DNC and the re-election of Joe Biden. When you saw this, does it ring true that this could be something that could have happened?

Rick Grenell: First of all, raise your hand if you're shocked that this didn't leak out during the Biden administration. Every little piece of information is manipulated from the intelligence agency when it is an anti-Republican moment. And yet here we have the raw intelligence showing that the Ukrainians were trying to funnel money, US taxpayer money, back to the Biden campaign in order to help them win.

Now, let's unpack this. They wanted Biden to win because they were getting money from Biden for this war between Russia and Ukraine. They didn't want the money to end. So they were willing to sacrifice a couple of hundred million dollars to send it back to the political system in America, even though it started with US taxpayer dollars.

Supposed to go for an energy program, instead the allegation is that it went back and helped Biden's campaign. This is outrageous. This should be in the front page news. We should be investigating this. Thank God that Tulsi is the one that has found this and declassified this and now they're trying to figure out if it actually, if any of the money actually went into the campaign.

Will: Rick, this story to me has so many elements to it that should be almost vindicating to people on the right in the conservative media that have been talking and raising questions, genuine questions. Was there corruption between the Bidens and the Ukrainians? Well, that'll get you impeached and kicked off social media if you ask that and you'll have all the intelligence community writing a very strongly worded letter against you if you were to say that.

Once again, people that say I feel like a lot of this clean energy initiative is kind of a scam. How dare you, you climate denier that want everyone in the world to lose their cities and have all these things bad happen, apocalyptic happen because you deny climate.

But yet in this one story, and it's not like it's some random person, this is intercepts within the government that now the investigation is whether or not people acted on this. But the intercepts clearly showed that there was a plot whether or not it went forward that encompassed all the things that if you were a conservative questioning, you were canceled, put in Facebook jail, right here in one story.

Logan Sekulow: This is not a far-fetched idea. I think that's when you read the sort of report, sure it's a report, we know our friends at Just The News do a great job. So I'm not questioning their report. But when you do read it, you go, "Well, yeah," as Rick you stated, it's clear where they were going, why the reasons they were, and you're right, a lot of money was being funneled to them. So of course, they wanted to keep things going.

Rick Grenell: One of the cabinet officials in the Biden administration that literally got away without having scrutiny—she escaped public and media scrutiny—is really a shame, and now we're finding out that there's a lot here that needs to be investigated. The woman is Avril Haines, who was the DNI during Joe Biden's tenure. She's never answered the question for what was going on with all of the Ukrainian money.

Clearly, we now know that there were intelligence sources showing that it was being abused. Why didn't she come forward? Why didn't she say, "Wait a minute, lawmakers, we should do a little pause here on funding the Ukrainians until we figure out if they're playing political games with this"?

This would have been something that a real DNI who is interested in transparency would have come forward to say, "Look, I don't care if this is helping Joe Biden and the Democrats and I'm a Democrat-appointed DNI." It doesn't matter, this is the type of scandal that makes American taxpayers say, "I don't think I want to fund more intelligence programs if this is what they're up to."

Will: And once again, if you watch this broadcast, you were told from day one of the Biden administration by Rick Grenell that someone you should be concerned about in this administration is Avril Haines. You had many times mentioned on this broadcast, so our audience understands exactly what you're talking about. But you also have to take the converse here because I think whenever you look at a story like this, what would be happening if this story were flipped?

If it were the Trump administration—not even the President himself, but someone in an agency—talked to a foreign government about rerouting money back into the United States to fund the election, it would be everywhere, there would be an impeachment, there would be mass chaos in our country over this.

And honestly, if that was something that was intercepted, there's a lot of problems with that. That's not what happened. They will go this far with saying we have to use things like the Steele dossier to try and get President Trump completely wiped out of public life.

But when it comes to something that the intelligence agencies themselves picked up, there are crickets. There is one place you can find this, Just The News. Even in conservative spaces, you're not seeing this as much, and maybe people have moved on, maybe people have lost the appetite or gotten numb to this corruption. But when you're seeing this, I'm thankful that this government is looking into this now.

Rick Grenell: Look, I actually think that in order to restore faith in the intelligence agencies, to restore faith in the process to fund Ukraine in the war in Congress, that we need to see Avril Haines testify in Congress on this particular issue. What did she know and when did she know it? Why did she cover it up? Did she dismiss this as this isn't accurate, this isn't real news, this is phony?

So then tell us, because right now what we see is a total cover-up from the Avril Haines intelligence community where she knew that there was this scheme to take US taxpayer money from Ukrainian funding, pretend like it was going to an energy company, but it really was going to re-elect Joe Biden.

That's a scandal. The fact that we caught it is fantastic, but why didn't it come out then and what was done to ensure that the money didn't actually go to that campaign?

Logan Sekulow: And I want to clarify something, Will, number one, Avril Haines, no relation.

Will: No, spelled differently. The Haynes is spelled differently. I just want to make sure people don't think this is some sort of also plot that we have here.

Logan Sekulow: I am the deep state. Well, you never know. You never know who you're looking at. That's why you've got people like Tulsi Gabbard. And look, I think that's why it's important, Rick, also is you do have someone like Tulsi in this position and you've had people like you in these kind of positions, people that are not just going to say, "Well, that's old news, we're not worrying about that anymore."

They will deep dive and continue searching for really what's going on. Even if it seems, as Will said, maybe the appetite from the news media may have moved on, that doesn't matter to the people who we put in these positions.

Rick Grenell: Yeah look, we've got to give credit to Tulsi. She actually declassified this so that we could see the whole story, that there wasn't some mystery or some leaks that are coming out with partial information. She actually declassified the whole story. Now I think it's up to Congress to take this declassified information and figure out what exactly went wrong. Why didn't we know about it then? What did Avril know and when did she know it?

Logan Sekulow: All right, thank you so much, Rick, for joining us today. Really appreciate your guidance and your thoughts always. And look, we are going to continue this conversation and I want to have that conversation with you. So if you want to call in—we have one call right now about the TSA and the shutdown of Department of Homeland Security, we'll take some of those as well.

We know that's on the top of mind for a lot of people, but we'll take calls also on this: 1-800-684-3110. Yes or no in the comments: does any of this really surprise you? I know you're interested in it. I can see the numbers; a lot of you are curious about it. But is it shocking?

When we go to break, I want to know from you, yes or no. With that being said, we are also in the last day, it's Friday, last day of Stop the Madness. The madness will somewhat continue, Will. Always, there will always be madness. But the special week will end today. And we want you to have a doubled donation. So right now, double your impact at ACLJ.org.

All the content there, by the way, is not behind a paywall. So even if you become an ACLJ Champion, what you're really doing is just helping make sure this content and this legal work can continue on for free to as many people as possible. We want our content shareable. We don't want you to be forced to be a part of anything. We want you to be able to take it and share it with your friends and say, "Look what's going on in this country. Look what's going on around the world."

And you don't have to go give them money to find out their opinions or thoughts or really why you should be engaging what we're doing here. But we can't do that without your support. So as we head to break—it's our shortest break of the day, it's less than a minute—I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. Double your impact today as your donations are matched.

We have court cases currently against CNN, we are currently going to court against the State of California in support of this church. We have everything from street preachers all the way up to leaders in this country and around the world who are supported by the team here at the ACLJ. And none of it happens without you. So have your gift doubled today at ACLJ.org. Back in less than a minute.

Guest (Male): Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might feel like you have no say over it, but you make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting across the country, defending your right to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to ACLJ.org/double, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled, dollar for dollar, to defend your most essential liberties.

You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to ACLJ.org/double today.