SEKULOW

Guest (Male): We got breaking news: James Comey to turn himself in following his DOJ indictment. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Logan Sekulow.

Logan Sekulow: Welcome to Sekulow. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. We got done with the show yesterday, Will and I went to lunch as we do. We're having a nice sandwich. We look over at the TV and it says James Comey indicted. We go, "Ah, right when we go off the air, all the fun stuff breaks." But today we get to talk about it.

Not only was James Comey indicted over that very cool shelf formation as he put it. What was the exact quote? Something the shelf, right? It was a cool shelf formation on my beach walk. As it said, 86 47. Of course, someone who is threatening the President of the United States. And now we have an indictment of James Comey on this behalf as well as we know that he will be turning himself in to be arraigned a little bit later today.

Will Sekulow: That's right. So he will be turning himself in to a federal court and have an arraignment. They are saying that he will be doing that in Virginia, even though this indictment is out of the Eastern District of North Carolina, the Eastern Division. It's a two-count indictment. It says that he is indicted in violation of Title 18 US Code Section 871A, which we can get into later, as well as Title 18 US Code Section 875C.

Two similar statutes. Count one does specifically relate to the seashells and it being the President. That is the code section that is making a threat against the President or successors to the presidency. The other one is about transmitting it in general, another thing to go with this. Both of these counts could be fined or imprisoned not more than five years or both. We will get to it, but one thing I want to hear from the audience: is this something you wanted to see? Do you think that this post is indictable? Obviously, it was returned in indictment by a grand jury in North Carolina, but we'll get into even the merits of this, what we think about it coming up in sections ahead.

Logan Sekulow: I see a lot of people posting things similar to this. Some people I follow specifically after this happened. I feel like they did it almost in defiance. They started using this term. But do you take James Comey and use him as an example? It's probably a high bar to get jail time for something like this or to be imprisoned, so keep your expectations at bay here.

But I also don't think it's a bad idea when we have so many current threats, when we have a rhetoric that has gotten extreme in this country, to say, you know what? Let's calm it all down. Maybe what we need to do—now do I think arresting James Comey or whatever it may be is going to be what gets us to calm everything down? Maybe not. However, that doesn't mean it's not justified.

It doesn't mean though that also he doesn't like this. You got to remember, James Comey also a bit of a showman himself. Loves the cameras, loves to get in front of it. We know President Trump took his indictments and turned them into merchandise. I would not be surprised, though I don't know if you'll see merch from James Comey. I don't know where you would buy this merch. I don't see a lot of Comey stores. Do I think that he will relish in this a little bit? Oh, yeah. This has a new book written all over it, Will. I mean, this is a moment that he's probably been waiting for ever since he posted that on social media.

Now, again, James Comey is back in the news. You think he goes away, but no, it comes back once again. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. Folks, we are wrapping up very rapidly our Faith Under Fire week, and of course, specifically our Double the Difference drive. We're going to talk a bit later with CeCe Heil about a big pro-life win. You're going to want to stay tuned for this. A lot of times you don't hear about big wins coming out of the Supreme Court of the United States where it's almost a unanimous win, but today is one of those days.

So we're going to celebrate that. We're going to talk about that a little bit more. But none of it happens without you, and the deadline is here. How far we can take these legal fights, how far we can take this media operation, only relies on you. So again, the deadline's here. Make your impact count at aclj.org. Have your gift doubled before time runs out. This is the last day. I mean, tomorrow will be it of me asking you to help support the ACLJ when donations are doubled. So be a part of it right now.

Logan Sekulow: Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might worry about the country you'll leave behind for your kids or your grandkids. You might feel you have no say over it, but your voice has power. You make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting in courtrooms across the country, defending your rights to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to aclj.org/difference, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled dollar for dollar to defend your most essential liberties. You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to aclj.org/double today.

Guest (Male): We've witnessed monumental legal victories from defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over. The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy, and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world.

This fight isn't just the ACLJ's, it's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded. None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It's been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at aclj.org/free.

Logan Sekulow: Welcome back to Sekulow. We are going to be taking your calls, so give me a call at 1-800-684-3110. A lot of you are joining us right now. Maybe you see the title, it's James Comey to turn himself in. Maybe you didn't even see because we were off the air. Look, some of you just watch our show and then you go, "No more news for me for the day." I like those people because I get it. They take the one hour a day, they get all the information they need, and then they need a breath. They actually go spend time with their friends and their family, and they don't let news and politics and all of these world events dictate their life.

So good for you if you don't know about this. But we are flashing back to almost a year ago now when James Comey was strolling around the beach, posted on social media, "Hey, cool shelf formation." And that shelf formation said 86 47. The President and the administration of course saying that that is a direct threat, a call for assassination. In this world where we have had multiple assassination attempts that we know about even and that got close to President Trump, of course they're taking these seriously.

After a year, we have an indictment now of James Comey. I want to know what you think. Should this have happened? Do you believe that this is worthy of the American people's time even, that we should be investigating James Comey and going a little bit further in here? Of course, he will have his day in court and maybe that will be interesting for a lot of us to watch. But it was a short three-page indictment, faces a couple charges.

Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. We do know, again, that's 1-800-684-3110. Have your voice heard today. We do know he plans on turning himself in later today. He even put out his own video statement. Again, this is James Comey. This is someone that loves to be in front of the camera. We know this. So do not think that he's not—look, it's a pain. No one wants to go through this. But if there's anyone that would like a little more airtime, it's probably him.

Will Sekulow: That's right. And honestly, when you read these charges and you hear from the Attorney General, the Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, they felt like this was the right call. Remember, this is the second time that James Comey has been indicted by this Department of Justice. The first one was for false statements before Congress, a perjury charge related to Russian investigation matters. Now, that one was thrown out because the US Attorney that brought the charge, a judge said, was appointed outside of the proper channels.

Now we are seeing this two-count indictment returned by a grand jury in the Eastern District of North Carolina, US Federal Court, that charges two things related to this Instagram post. And the first one is Title 18 US Code Section 871: threats against the President or successors to the presidency. And that states: "Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or delivery from any post office or by letter carrier, paper, writing, etc., any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, Vice President, etc., or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President, or other officer, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

The next one is related to interstate communications, Title 18 US Code 875, Section C, which says: "Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing a threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure a person." So that once again, that is more broad statute about threats in general through interstate communications, here being Instagram being the interstate communication. But when you put those two together, that's the indictment.

Now, here's the big question. Because this now—there will be a court process, there will be pre-trial motions, there will be a lot of time before it actually gets to a jury trial. But is a jury of his peers going to convict James Comey of 18 USC 875A?

Logan Sekulow: Now, this is in North Carolina is where this will be happening. In North Carolina, Eastern District. So you never know with North Carolina and the politics of it. Of course they'll do a good job weighing through different jurors. I think what you'll be surprised is how many people don't even know who James Comey is. We talk about it every day. I think the mass majority of people have never heard the name.

And I know that's probably shocking to a lot of you, but remember, most people don't have the news on 24 hours a day. Most people think of James Comey as a relic of the past even at this point. This is—we're talking about someone who hasn't been actively involved in many, many years. But as I said, he loves a little razzle-dazzle. He loves a show. So let's hear from James Comey, who posted this just now on social media.

James Comey: I am still innocent. I am still not afraid, and I still believe in the independent federal judiciary. So let's go. But it's really important that all of us remember: this is not who we are as a country. This is not how the Department of Justice is supposed to be.

Logan Sekulow: So that's a short bite. Of course he went on and on.

Will Sekulow: Right. And here is to that point where he says he's not afraid. I genuinely don't think he is afraid.

Logan Sekulow: No, I don't think he has anything really to be afraid of if I'm being honest, too. And I don't think this is—it's going to be serious, but again, unless they decide to make an example out of him.

Will Sekulow: Right. Well, but they have. They've already decided to make the example out of him because the Department of Justice brought this forth, got an indictment from a grand jury.

Logan Sekulow: Now when plenty of people say a lot worse all the time on the internet, and probably mean it more than James Comey did. And that's I think what is going to be the big defense from him is that, one, he took it down when it was brought to his attention, didn't understand it was associated with violence. That was his defense publicly. It is ridiculous, but here's the other thing: will a jury beyond a reasonable doubt think that James Comey was conveying a threat? Now, the statute doesn't say it has to be a legitimate threat or a credible threat. It just says whoever conveys that threat or any such person makes any such threat.

Now, you could say that he did that. I think that's what it's going to come down to. Can you convince 12 people that beyond a reasonable doubt he was conveying a threat to the President? I, if I were to forecast this, I don't think that he would get convicted on this or would serve jail time for this.

Will Sekulow: I think those are two different things. I think there's a chance he gets convicted but maybe the sentence is next to nothing. Now, this is just our speculation. Will and I are not lawyers. I also think we should be taking these things seriously when you have someone with such a massive platform also like James Comey.

Again, I may have just gone on a rant about how a lot of people don't know who he is, but the people who do follow James Comey are people who probably very quickly get radicalized. So I am not opposed to the idea that there is rhetoric. Again, we have the freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. I don't think there should be much censorship. I'm a pretty free speech absolutist in terms of this. I think that we should be able to say pretty much whatever we want.

But that doesn't mean there's not consequences to some of that speech. And one of those things directly, and one of the few limits actually on our freedom of speech, is when you not only directly threaten someone, when you directly threaten the President of the United States. That is not a theoretical law. That's not a theoretical concept. This is something that is straight in the US Code.

Right. So look, it is what it is. And he can make an argument that he didn't know exactly what it meant or that it didn't mean necessarily a direct physical threat to the President of the United States. But we live in a time where you are radicalizing would-be normal people. I mean, if you look at the background of the potential shooter from the White House Correspondents' Dinner, if you took out politics, you would think this is a very smart individual who's lived a pretty good life. Involved in his church, schoolteacher, went to Caltech, has a master's degree. Seems like a pretty stand-up guy.

But you have had a lot of rhetoric being thrown at these people. Will and I read an article this morning, kind of talked about that, the radicalization of people that we would have been considered either moderate or non-political because you start drumming up these feelings and the emotions that are beyond politics. You start giving people these complexes, these complexes where they have to be the savior because no one else will be. And they have a righteous anger in their own heads that they feel like they could take lives with that. I don't put it past the American people to at least take a good look at this and say, "Look, where are we going to draw that line?" And James Comey, who has been for some people a hero and for some just the biggest troll in the world.

Will Sekulow: Well, and that's the weird thing is when did he become that hero? Only after he was sending spies into the White House. Because he's also the person that was abusing his power, leaking documents, continued to go after Hillary Clinton during that timeline right before the election—reopening, closing, reopening the case against her. At the end of the day, what I would like to see him held accountable for is his abuse of power as FBI Director. All the things that he put on this country when it comes to both the Hillary email investigation, the Russia-gate, Russia collusion probe, him then leaking things to try and get a special counsel.

He believed he was above the law. He believed he was the puppet master of the law, so to speak. And I think that is also where when you see an Instagram post that he thought he was being clever, it was a very serious thing. But that also shows you his mindset, that he just thinks that he is above everything. And that's even his "Higher Calling" book that he put out shows you his mindset totally is that he thinks he is above all of this. Just like me.

Logan Sekulow: No, I didn't want to throw that out. That's cruel. I know it is. I'm sorry. Don't indict me. 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. Have your voice heard today. Look, we got only a day left in our Faith Under Fire, Double the Difference drive. Be a part of it today. I'm going to ask you to go to aclj.org. I'm going to ask you to scan the QR code you see because today, and really by the end of the day tomorrow, is the last chance for quite some time to have your donation doubled today.

Guest (Male): We've witnessed monumental legal victories from defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over. The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy, and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world.

This fight isn't just the ACLJ's, it's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded. None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It's been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at aclj.org/free.

Logan Sekulow: Let's be honest. There's a lot happening in America right now. It can be overwhelming. Our values, our faith, our freedoms—they're constantly being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might worry about the country you'll leave behind for your kids or your grandkids. You might feel you have no say over it, but your voice has power. You make a difference.

Right now, when you support the work of the ACLJ, you'll make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting in courtrooms across the country, defending your rights to speak, to pray, even how to educate your kids. Right now, when you go to aclj.org/difference, your tax-deductible gift will be doubled dollar for dollar to defend your most essential liberties. You're not just supporting the critical work of the ACLJ, you're doubling your impact to defend the rights given to us by the US Constitution. Double the difference. Go to aclj.org/double today.

Logan Sekulow: Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are jamming up right now at 1-800-684-3110. A lot of you are watching because of the news: James Comey not only indicted, but will turn himself in later today. But I wanted to pivot as we are just a little over 24 hours away from wrapping up our Double the Difference drive. It has been a long journey. I appreciate everyone joining us.

It's really been about eight weeks, been two months of we had "Double Your Impact" and then "Double the Difference" because "Double Your Impact" went so well we were able to recreate it essentially, get it back together and do two months back-to-back, which we've been really appreciate everyone who has joined us during it. But it's the last day. Then you don't have to hear from me. Tomorrow's the last day, actually on the 30th.

May 1st, you won't have to hear from me talking about this kind of thing for a little while. But I am so impressed by our ACLJ legal team and there are so many things happening. And today, if you want to know—I know a lot of you say it feels like nothing ever happens, and sometimes it's because we don't spend a lot of time celebrating our wins here. That is not because we don't do it internally. Sometimes we've been told, I've told you this through data and analytics, that our audience doesn't necessarily always want to hear when we're celebrating our wins. They want to know what's going on actively, what's happening in the news.

Well, this at least can kind of go together as one because it's a current kind of breaking item that's happening right now and also is a day to celebrate quite a bit. Will.

Will Sekulow: That's right. So the Supreme Court issued an opinion today in the case First Choice Women's Resource Centers, Inc. v. Davenport, the Attorney General of New Jersey. We filed an amicus brief in this case. It was something that we were following very closely because it tracks with cases we've won before at state level as well as things that we are currently fighting.

Because effectively, this pregnancy resource center was trying to sue the state and the Attorney General of New Jersey because of violation of their rights. The Attorney General had created a Reproductive Rights Strike Force and they were issuing subpoenas to these pregnancy resource centers, trying to get documents, weaponizing the government against specifically pregnancy resource centers. We see that in Massachusetts with their ad campaign and also similar tactics from the Attorney General's office in Massachusetts. But CeCe, tell us a little bit about what this case was about, how it affects our work, and what the outcome was.

CeCe Heil: Sure. So like you said, this is a case in New Jersey where the Attorney General decided he was going to go after pro-life pregnancy resource centers, which again, we see in every state and we have lots of cases going on just like this. Went after them for the Reproductive Rights Strike Force and through that issued subpoenas.

Now, the subpoenas are what is really the source of the problem here, because they started asking for lots of information way beyond what a subpoena can ask for, and including the names of their donors. So they sued. The First Choice Women's Resource Center sued because they said this absolutely violates our First Amendment right of association if we have to disclose our donors' names.

And the District Court, when they went to Federal District Court, the District Court judge said, "Look, you don't have any injury here because until a court actually compels you to answer that subpoena, there's no injury." And so they appealed to the Supreme Court. The United States Supreme Court, like you said, in a unanimous decision, said, "Look, there's a violation to your freedom of association the moment that question is asked by the Attorney General. You don't have to wait for a state court to compel it. The injury to your First Amendment right happens immediately."

So they reversed that and sent that case back down. And what's interesting here, Gorsuch made a comment about: we've been dealing with this issue since the 1950s over and over, Attorneys General and trying to use subpoenas to go around the First Amendment. Now, I don't go back to the 1950s, but in 2010 we had a case in New York where we represented PRCs and we absolutely won in court a law. First they started with a law trying to target PRCs.

We won that, so then they decided, well, we're going to use the AG then to go after them. So they went after our client, Attorney General Schneiderman in New York, went after the PRC and again had subpoenas that were way too far, asked too many questions, and we took that case and won at the New York Supreme Court.

And the Supreme Court opinion says that there's a danger that subpoenas may be used to intimidate or harass speakers who espouse views with which the government may disagree. And then he stated the subpoena infringes on the First Amendment right of the petitioner and the petitioner's staff members to freedom of association and it is not sufficiently tailored to serve the compelling investigative purpose for which it was issued. So we won that case, which is exactly what the Supreme Court addressed here in New Jersey. This is going on in many, many states and we are fighting it and have been for decades.

Will Sekulow: Well, and I think this plays into so much of the work of the ACLJ. One, this is a 9-0 decision. This is unanimous. Justice Gorsuch wrote the opinion, but one that all of the justices agreed that the Attorneys General of the states cannot go around and weaponize their power to try and go after groups they don't like.

Logan Sekulow: So this affects beyond pro-life clearly, because if it did you probably would not have a 9-0 opinion.

Will Sekulow: Right. But you also have to think about how many times we've seen not just Attorneys General, but the government—I think back to the Tea Party case. What was the IRS going after? Donor lists. What are these Attorneys General going after when it comes to pregnancy resource centers, non-profits? Donor lists. What do they want to see? They want to intimidate people. They want to push these ideologies out of business because they disagree with them.

And how can they do that? Silence the speech by silencing the donors, which will make them dry up. And that is what the Supreme Court is saying: "You went too far here." And we filed in it. It's a great decision, but it doesn't just affect the pregnancy resource centers, which we have many cases of right now like Massachusetts where you're seeing states go after them, but also you can think of all of the touchpoints that this could affect that's not just a pro-life decision.

Logan Sekulow: That's right. And look, if you have a question or comment about that as well, I'd want you to call in: 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. In the second half-hour we'll take calls about this, we'll take calls about James Comey as well. I know a lot of you have questions or comments about that. But CeCe, before we wrap up this topic because we are wrapping up our Double the Difference drive right now, this is it, last 24 hours coming up. This is not new for the ACLJ. This is not work that is a one-off. It continues on each and every day our team—I mean, I hear from our legal team every day. This is one of the wins, but it is not alone. It is not the only thing we're doing. We have teams dispatched everywhere working on these cases non-stop.

CeCe Heil: Absolutely. And we can't do it without our donors' help. And we do. We have attorneys that are constantly working on these domestic issues and like you know, international issues. So we literally are working around the clock to absolutely protect all the rights that God has given us. And like even in this case, since 2010 we've been working on this specific issue with Attorneys General.

Logan Sekulow: Since 2010. So that feels—some people may hear 2010 and like, "Oh, that feels like that was yesterday." Well, start thinking about it actually in terms of time. We're talking about what, 16 years that our team has been working on this specific issue? And now we have a result.

Again, the organization's been around nearly 40 years. That's actually a pretty big chunk of time when you think about what our team has been working on. So you can be a part of that as well. I'm going to encourage you today because again, we only got 24 hours left. Be a part of our Faith Under Fire week, but really the Double the Difference drive. Your donations are doubled because other ACLJ members, ACLJ champions, they are ready to unlock a donation. So whatever you give gets matched.

The deadline is here. Whether it's these pro-life cases you heard from CeCe today, we're having an impact defending these pro-life advocates, pro-life resource centers, or maybe it is our worldwide efforts to help those being persecuted for their faith. Whatever it may be, the ACLJ is there and you want us to be there for you as well. And that only happens—remember, it's no cost to our clients. It's no cost for you to get this show or any of our incredible resources we provide because people like you also decide to help. So go to aclj.org, have your donation doubled today before time runs out in 24 hours.

Logan Sekulow: There's a lot happening in America right now. Our values, our faith, our freedoms are being challenged in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill. You might feel like you have no say over it, but you make a difference. And right now you can make double the difference. Our legal teams are fighting across the country, defending your rights to speak, pray, and even how to educate your kids. Join the fight. Go to aclj.org/double to have your gift doubled today.