Hope for the Cancer+ Journey Podcast

Debbie Taylor Williams: You are not alone on your cancer journey. Welcome to Hope for the Cancer Journey Podcast. I’m your host, Debbie Taylor Williams, a stage three lung cancer survivor. A cancer diagnosis is shocking and scary, but there is hope as you’ll hear from people’s stories of their journey just for navigating the medical world and the unwavering hope you can have in Christ. Let’s walk this path together.

Welcome to Hope for the Cancer Journey. I’m your host, Debbie Taylor Williams, along with Lauren Spalding. Today, we’re excited to welcome Jessica McDonald. Jessica is wife to John and mom to two daughters. It has been a blessing to get to know her through Peterson Health. Welcome, Jessica.

Jessica McDonald: Thank you for having me.

Debbie Taylor Williams: It’s so good to have you, and Lauren, it’s great to have you co-hosting with me.

Lauren: I’m excited to be here. Jessica, could you share how your cancer journey began and what your reaction was when the doctor said the word cancer?

Jessica McDonald: Sure. It's probably a little bit an unusual story. I was actually at my annual appointment with my OBGYN doing all of the other things that you're supposed to do, and mentioned to her that my throat had felt a little unusual lately. At the time my grandmother was ill and so I thought it was just an emotional time and thought that that was probably what it was. She felt around and said, "Well, you're at the hospital, why don't you just run downstairs and let them do an ultrasound?"

Obviously looking back, that probably was the first clue that she knew that something was a little unusual. So I went down, the technician did the ultrasound and I walked out thinking, not a big deal. Fast forward two days later, I got an alert in my email that I had results in my portal. As most hospital systems do, they had a portal with your information in there.

So I’m actually sitting in my home office in the middle of my work day, and I open up my email to try to read and interpret the radiologist report and I read "papillary carcinoma." I just kind of sat there and called my husband and said, "I'm reading this radiologist report and it has the word carcinoma in there." He says, "I'll be right there."

Debbie Taylor Williams: Oh, Jessica.

Jessica McDonald: I was like, "What does this mean?" So all of a sudden I’m reading it in a medical document. I have no background in healthcare. This is not my world of knowledge and education. So that’s really how I found out. I read it by myself. Now I very much try to warn people that portals are great until they're not. It's a good tool until it's a hard way to learn information.

From then, I all of a sudden got a phone call from an ENT's office—ear, nose, and throat doctor's office—and she said, "I'm the nurse for this physician and he would like you to have surgery on Friday."

Debbie Taylor Williams: Oh, Jessica, that quick?

Jessica McDonald: Oh my goodness. This is where there's pros and cons to your husband being in healthcare. I was just like, "I'm sorry, who are you? What doctor is this? And what do you mean on Friday?"

I would like to sit down and look him in the eyes and I would like to know what's going on here. She said, "Well, your OBGYN's office called and said that you had received these results, and so he wants you to have surgery." I said, "I would like a meeting. That’s what I would like to do."

Debbie Taylor Williams: Agreed.

Jessica McDonald: So that’s what we did on Friday. We did not have surgery on Friday. So he sat down and went through the information with us, looked over the ultrasound results and said, "The good news is that you're young," which, being 36 and being told you have cancer is not exactly what I would call good news. But the good news is that you're young, so the odds of it being cancer, they weren't certain even though that's what it said on the ultrasound report, was a 40 percent chance.

He said we won't actually know until we get in there and remove the nodule that is on your thyroid gland. And so he was like, "We can take a biopsy, but those aren't always—sometimes we can get false positives and we can get false negatives. So really what we think we should do is do the surgery and go in there, and if we can not remove the entire thyroid, then we won't do that." It was kind of this whole, "We don't know until we get in there." So we said, "Okay." He was like, "40 percent chance that it's malignant, 60 percent chance that it's not because of your age."

Debbie Taylor Williams: Okay, so you’re trying to process all of this information. Did you ask, "How will we know if it's gone anywhere else?" I didn’t even know that there was anything wrong.

Jessica McDonald: Right. And he said, "Well, I can't tell you that there's a zero percent chance that it's gone anywhere else, but less than one percent chance." I said, "Okay, these odds are feeling pretty good." So we schedule surgery for the next week. We go in, he said the minute he cuts into my throat, he can see the nodule. It's five centimeters, which is something you can see with your eyes. And so he said we knew we had to do total thyroidectomy.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Cancer.

Jessica McDonald: Yes. And was definitely still scared. Even the fact that the big "C" cancer word was even being mentioned was something that was still scary to hear. Two little girls were 11 and eight at the time, so they still felt very little. It was very scary. But I'm a fairly pragmatic person, and so I felt like the odds are in our favor, so I'm sure it'll be fine.

Lauren: At that time, you said the girls were 11 and eight. Did you share that information with them, like what was going on, or did you just tell them, "Hey, I'm going to go to the doctor, I'm going to have a little procedure"?

Jessica McDonald: So we told them that I had to have a surgery done. By God's timing, my sister and her husband and her children were actually coming to Kansas City. We lived 14 hours away from family at that time, and they were coming up just for a family vacation and they were going to come over to our house for the weekend. I actually drove the girls over to where they were staying for a couple nights with just their family and dropped them off.

They actually got to have a fun evening and stay the night with their cousins while I was going and doing this. So they got to do that part and really kind of didn't know. We didn't plan to tell them unless it ended up being something because we knew there would be additional steps later on.

So we have the surgery. Like I said, he can tell right away it needs to be removed. So he does that. Pathologist is there, he runs the testing. It's definitely malignant. As they are doing the surgery, they can see that it actually has spread. So they take three lymph nodes out and it is in two of the three lymph nodes. So my less than one percent, can't tell me zero percent chance, is actually positive.

That then becomes a whole other layer of things that we have to do. And that I think was probably the piece that then became the hardest and that became the scariest. That to me I think is what has stayed the longest with me is everything from there on out. When you're told, "Oh, well the odds of this or the percentage of this," I'm like, "You don't understand." When you've lived in the "less than one percent" world, then all of a sudden those statistics don't mean as much to you as maybe they once did.

Lauren: Right.

Jessica McDonald: So once we did the surgery, figured out kind of what those next steps would be. With thyroid cancer, it's a little bit different because while you do remove that part, because it had gone into the lymph nodes, there is a radiation that you have to take. This radiation is a little different than kind of the ones you typically hear with maybe the cancers that people have experienced.

You go to a hospital and in the nuclear medicine department, the radiologist and a nurse come out with a giant concrete egg. In the egg that they open is a little container, and there's a pill inside of it. Everyone has gloves and all of this equipment on, and they watch you swallow it.

Lauren: Wow.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Did you swallow it?

Jessica McDonald: Yes. It was very strange. The nurse looked at me and said, "You're not going to throw up, are you?" And I said, "No." She said, "Great, now you leave. Do not stop, do not talk to anyone and don't get pulled over on your way home." Because essentially you just swallow all of the radiation and you become radioactive.

Lauren: Oh, that has to be so hard with the girls' age.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Yes. What did you do? Where did you go?

Jessica McDonald: So I stayed at our house. Because we lived in Kansas City, we had a basement and it was a fully built-out basement. It had a living room and kitchen and bathroom. So we had all of that set up. We knew a couple of weeks in advance that this was going to be the plan, so we had it stocked and ready to go.

But no one else could live there because the radiation goes through walls, goes through floors and ceilings and things like that. So the girls went and lived with their grandparents, and John was still at work, so he went and lived in a hotel for a week. The dog went and boarded at the local vet's office, because otherwise it would then give all of them hypothyroidism, basically destroy their thyroid.

Lauren: Oh my goodness. Was this during the school year or during summer?

Jessica McDonald: It was during summer, thankfully. So that was one of those other times the timing worked out, so we weren't worried about school and things like that. But we now have the joke that unfortunately I didn't get any superpowers.

Lauren: How frequently did you have to do that? Just the one time?

Jessica McDonald: Just the one time. We did that and then went and did a full-body scan. Basically just to see if there was any spots that showed up on the scan where the cancer had spread, that's where it would have shown up there.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Jessica, was that where swallowing that pill and knowing that you just swallowed radiation that was going throughout your whole body—?

Jessica McDonald: Yes, it was very strange. You had to be very cognizant of your hygiene for the next week because every time you shower or use the restroom, you're emitting all of this as well. So you have to be very thoughtful, and we really made sure no one used any of the basement area for about another week or two after that.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Did it make you feel bad?

Jessica McDonald: It did. Nauseous and tired, and just overall part of it was probably the medication, part of it was probably just the overall trauma emotionally and physically.

Debbie Taylor Williams: How were you doing emotionally? I imagine I’d be crying and saying, "God, why is this happening to me?" and all those questions.

Jessica McDonald: It was a lot of that. It was a lot of that, a lot of sleeping. You're very thankful of people wanting to check in with you, but at the same time, I'll be honest, it was a lot of looking at my phone and messages and appreciating it, but also not really wanting to respond to anyone. It's a lot to take in and a lot of missing your family.

Debbie Taylor Williams: How did you handle that?

Jessica McDonald: It was a lot of distractions. We have the benefit of Netflix and movies and things like that, but I slept a lot to be honest with you. I think that was part of the emotional trauma and the medication does all of that as well. John could come home after work and he would sit at the top of the stairs and I would go stand at the furthest point and he would kind of check in. Fortunately technology, we have FaceTime. Just kind of check in, count down the days and it was nice to emerge again.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Did your girls understand what was happening?

Jessica McDonald: A little bit, yes. We started to tell them enough that I think that they could understand based on the ages that they were.

Lauren: So did you have to do any—what happened after that? Any follow-up or—you said it was only the one time you had to do the pill. So then how long after did you find out if it was effective? Kind of go over that process if you don't mind.

Jessica McDonald: Sure. So once we did the full-body scan and got the all-clear from that, then you really just go into ongoing care. With this type of thyroid cancer, the point of remission comes in a seven to 10 year time window. So I'm at year five at this point, so hopefully in two to another five years is when you're considered in remission.

So you start off every three months and then kind of get into an every six month rotation where you're constantly doing blood work. Because you are missing now your thyroid, I take a medication every single morning and I will for the rest of my life because you still need the function of your thyroid. So I take a synthetic medication that's basically trying to replace that.

Well, that's a fun guessing game of how much of that medication to take. The best way to do that is on blood work. Well, it fluctuates all the time with hormones, because it controls a huge amount of your hormones and everything else. While it was nice to be 36 when all of this was happening and young, 40 and female comes knocking very quickly, and so all of that changes as well.

So we have changed my medication every six months and then we'll go for a year and a half, and then we'll change it again. And so that's really kind of the ongoing part of this treatment is that it's just constantly kind of keeping your numbers where they should be so that you're not getting enough, which makes all of your feelings—it physically can be very slow and very brain fog and things like that. But if you have too much, then it overworks all of your other organs, which is not what you want either because then that can really do a lot of damage very quickly. So you have to be very aware of that.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Was it hard for you at first to separate the difference between "this is just me on a normal day and I'm more anxious and tired" versus "this is induced by my thyroid being removed and being on medication"?

Jessica McDonald: Sure. And each time we change the amount, even though it's in tiny little grams or milligrams, sometimes it's hard for me to even tell now. Do I just feel better? Is it a good day? Did I get enough sleep last night? Or is it because of that medication and is this just my new normal? How am I supposed to feel? I don't remember what it was like to feel normal.

Because thyroid cancer is a slow-growing cancer, I don't also know when I last felt how I should have been feeling. Was it at 35? Was it at 33? And especially being a mom of little kids and corporate jobs and things like that, that was the other part. The doctors are always asking, "Are you tired?" I was like, "Do you ask moms? Everyone I know is tired. I'm not narcoleptic at this point, so I'm not sure where the boundary is."

Lauren: One thing we wanted to ask too is what did you learn about God and/or what blessings from God did you experience along the way when you're going through this journey?

Jessica McDonald: Certainly. I think when you get the unfortunate invitation into the Cancer Club—it's not a club anyone wants to join—but all of a sudden if you take a moment to realize all these people that are now put into your path, whether they were the nurse that called and gave me her cell phone number and said, "If you have any questions, just text me," or a friend that shows up when you didn't realize that they were going to be there.

Or later on in the fog that I didn't realize, friends that came and picked up our kids and took them to the playground so that John could also have a break in the midst of taking care of his wife and little kids that wanted to go do something else besides be in the house. And meals and all of these other things. It's just all the little angels that appeared and didn't realize, didn't have to ask for it.

So much of pouring into your community. When all of those things come back to you when you don't realize it, it's just such a blessing. Nobody puts that out there waiting for it to come back to them, but when it does, it just means so much. It's little things from phone calls and text messages. I had a girlfriend come and she brought all kinds of lotions and makeup things, and that’s her love language and she was like, "I just want you to feel pretty."

That’s not something I would have ever thought to do, but that was her thing. And I had another one bring books because she loves books and she was like, "I would want to read." It was just stuff like that that just was very thoughtful. It's a nice reminder to show up or drop things off on people's porches because you never know if that's the one thing that makes them feel better and remember even years down the road.

Debbie Taylor Williams: I found that to be true. One day a lady popped by, she was out running errands and she said, "Could I drop off some scones for you and Keith?" People had been signing up for meals, but she had made some scones and just wondered if she could drop some off. She ended up coming and we sat on the back porch and visited. It was an unexpected gift.

I think you're right and it's a good word for us and our listeners. It doesn't have to be a full meal. It doesn't have to be a big meal that they say they'll bring you something to eat. It's just the evidence of someone's thoughtfulness in whatever somebody does and whatever way they do it. It's very thoughtful.

But as you also said, there were times, Jessica—and I would appreciate it so much—I would get texts from people. They'd send a prayer or a verse or just a "How are you?" and I would look at my phone and I just didn't have the energy to reply. It seems so silly that you couldn't tap out a text reply or hit their number and call them back. So it helped me appreciate the fact that sometimes I might check on someone and say, "How are you?" or "Thinking about you," but it's taught me that I don't need to get a reply from them.

Lauren: I agree.

Jessica McDonald: Yes, but to still go ahead and send that text, send that verse, send that prayer, send that "I'm thinking of you" because it will bless the person even though they might not reply.

Lauren: I agree. And I try now to even word those messages when I send to people in a way that doesn't ask for a response because sometimes it's just hard. I don't know why it is, but it sometimes just feels like a lot to respond.

Debbie Taylor Williams: I know. I would just look at that phone and think, "Debbie, answer it, reply," and I couldn’t.

Lauren: I agree. So it helps me to know you felt the same way. How does someone get thyroid cancer, or what are the family history markers? Can you cover that a little bit? Have you learned that through the process also?

Jessica McDonald: Yes. So this was a big surprise to me is that there isn't any. There is no family history. You can't really test for it. There is no gene that you can get. It doesn't come up in any way like that. And because it's such a small piece of the greater cancer pie, there's not a lot of research that's done to it. A lot of researchers kind of feel that, "Well, you can take the thyroid out and yes, you can have medication and you're done," which is not exactly what you want to hear when that's your part of that story.

But so there's really no way to test for it, which also means that there's nothing that you can really pass on to someone. That was one thing that I was very concerned about also having children. Is this something that my girls now need to be worried about and do we need to be testing them for things or something that they need to tell their doctors? They said really yes and no. Yes, because anyone could get thyroid cancer, but no because just because you had it doesn't mean that they're going to have it.

So there isn't really anything. It's really just something everyone should know to ask their primary care physician in the part of their normal blood work to be looking for these things.

Lauren: Okay, so that’s what I was going to ask. It does show up in blood work?

Jessica McDonald: Yes. It's part of a normal blood panel that you would do and everyone typically looks for it. It's usually a combination of letters in the big panels that they do and I'm sure everyone skips past it until it looks unusual.

Debbie Taylor Williams: I bet that for John, since he is in the whole medical health world, it was also hard on him having his very own wife going through that journey. So I’m so thrilled to hear that you’re now in a place of remission—hopefully in a few years.

Jessica McDonald: Almost. You can't really use that word remission yet. In a few years, hopefully.

Debbie Taylor Williams: What is the word that you use? Is it just still treatment?

Jessica McDonald: Still in treatment, yes.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Okay, so you’re still in treatment, but you’ll continue to always be in treatment. Yes, that word remission can be used in two more years.

Jessica McDonald: Hopefully so.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Okay, we are going to pray that that word remission is a word that becomes a part of your life name. Thank you. If you could share a message of hope or wisdom with someone who’s currently sitting in a waiting room or going through treatment, what would that be?

Jessica McDonald: I think just to continue to have your prayer time whenever that is for you. Different people have that at different times. Sometimes going on walks is what would do that for me, sometimes it's being in nature, whatever that looks like. And just really realizing that can also be the people sitting next to you and finding that community and leaning into that hope and leaning into those people, and not being afraid to let them love on you. I think some people, I myself have a hard time with that.

Lauren: I can tend to be one that likes to help others but not good at receiving help or asking for help, so I can see how that feels.

Debbie Taylor Williams: Jessica, thank you so much for being with us today. I’m so sorry that you’re on this cancer journey, truly. Like you said, it’s not an invitation any of us want to get. We really don’t get the opportunity to not accept it. It’s just there. So thank you because what you’ve shared will help our listeners. And Lauren, thank you for joining today.

Lauren: Thank you for letting me be a part of it.

Debbie Taylor Williams: To our listeners, please subscribe and also share this episode. It could be the exact message someone needs today. Thank you for listening and keep looking up as you take hold of the hope you have in Christ. And remember Psalm 39:7: "And now, O Lord, for what do I wait? My hope is in you."