Focus on the Family

Jason Benham: Your marriage can be healed. A Hope Restored marriage intensive from Focus on the Family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days.

Tori Benham: We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.

Jason Benham: Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com.

Guest (Male): The following program is sponsored by Focus on the Family and is supported by the prayers and financial gifts of wonderful friends like you.

Tori Benham: He was sitting in front of the fireplace with a blanket, and it just did not even look like Jason. I kind of get a little teary thinking of it because it was hard to see him like that. I can relate to so many other people out there that are watching your loved one go through this. Sometimes I think it's almost harder for the person watching from the outside because it's not the person that you know.

John Fuller: That's Tori Benham describing the power of anxiety and fear that we can experience or we can see in a loved one. Tori is here with her husband, Jason. They're back today. I'm John Fuller, and we're glad you've joined us.

Jim Daly: John, anxiety grips I think just about everybody in some way. It may not be directly you, but a family member, extended family member. It's just so prevalent in the culture today. I love the definition that our guests gave it last time. It's that projection of disaster. It's not what you're really living in, but it's the thought process of if-then. If I'm out there doing that, then something horrible might happen.

That's what we talked about last time, getting a hold of and really capturing that spiritually so you can be in a healthier place. I think it's important that God told us through Jesus, "Fear not." There's a reason He said "Fear not." This life has ample opportunity to be fearful, but for us as believers in Christ, we need to take that assurance that God is with us in every circumstance and certainly in those future circumstances that we can't even comprehend what they might be. If you didn't hear last time, go to the website or get the smartphone app and you can download and have access to everything. I thought it was a great discussion.

John Fuller: It was, and it was a combination of Scripture and experience and insight. All of that is captured in the book that Jason and Tori have written called *Unshakable: A Proven Plan to Crush Anxiety, Defeat Overwhelm, and Conquer the Fears That Freak You Out*. Get a copy of the book from us when you stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Jason and Tori, welcome back. It's so good to talk with you guys.

Jason Benham: Great to talk to you, brother.

Tori Benham: We're so glad to be here.

Jim Daly: I'm so glad you're here too, Tori, because you bring that woman's perspective, and I know a lot of the listeners and viewers appreciate that. It's not just three dudes talking here. This is an interesting topic. It can be a heavy topic, and I appreciate the tenderness we've all had with it, but it is about how to unlock somebody from this bondage, really.

People feel guilty even hearing that. That's not the intent of that. It's how do we get you to a better place. That's the goal. Deep down, I think that's where you want to be. It feels impossible, and we're going to hopefully make the impossible possible, and you can get to that place.

Jason, last time we talked about many stories you guys shared about how it felt. You kind of fell into this anxiety moment about to give a speech, a talk. You're the third person—I'm sitting here going, when is that going to happen to me? I'm hoping not. But you're the third person that has shared an experience like that. Also in the book *Unshakable*, you shared an analogy. It's like being in a car and all the things that are going on in a car. Illuminate that for us.

Jason Benham: Looking at anxiety as projected powerlessness, it's projecting fear into the future. First, Tori and I are not PhD-type people. We didn't come at this from a technical angle. I'm just a simple former jock who struggled with anxiety and figured out a way out of it because I dove so deep into it. I read everything that you could read on anxiety. I was thinking if my kid was struggling with anxiety, how would I describe it to him?

I thought of this analogy of a car. Just imagine a car, like a luxury vehicle, but the kind that actually has a driver, a chauffeur, and you're going to ride in the back. Your body is the car. Your brain is you. You're in the back seat, you're calling all the shots. Your nervous system is the driver. Now there's the parasympathetic, sympathetic—we don't have time to go into all of that stuff. So long as everything is good, your driver, your chauffeur, is pressing the gas when it needs to go, pressing the brake when it needs to stop, and everything is totally fine.

But then all of a sudden, you pull up to a stop sign and an intruder jumps in named Anxiety and gets into the back seat and starts screaming in your ear. "Hey, dangers ahead! We're being followed by a black car! They're coming to take you out!" What do you do? You yell at the driver, "Floor it! Let's go! Push the gas!" That's where all of a sudden now your nervous system takes over and your car—now just imagine if that anxiety stayed there, kept yelling into your brain because that's what anxiety does.

It hijacks your brain, then it distorts your emotions, and then it actually perverts pressure. Next thing you know, you've got your driver, your nervous system, is flooring it. That's your adrenaline and cortisol is jumping out there and doing all the stuff. Your parasympathetic nervous system is not able to press the brakes and say, "Hey, slow down. Rest, digest." All of that stuff happens. Next thing you know, your body starts to break down.

Jim Daly: I think the difficulty, again, is for those that are in anxiety, we're trying to provide you handles to understand what's going on. Again, you had to climb out of that. Thank God you did. Tori, thank God you were there to give him hope, and we talked about that last time. It feels hopeless. I don't want to diminish that because I know people are watching and listening that are in that spot. They're not out of it yet. They're maybe at the beginning where you were. This is really designed just to give you that hope that you need to see things differently. That's the start, correct?

Jason Benham: Absolutely.

Jim Daly: Your dad was in the book as well. You shared a story about him as a pastor, and he had a desire, a hope, a dream, but something happened to him when he was young that continued that voice in his head that kept telling him something. What happened there?

Jason Benham: It's interesting because you've got to get to the root of your anxiety. When you know what it is, which is projected powerlessness, and now all of a sudden you're experiencing some of those things that are happening in your body and in your brain, you're starting to ruminate and all this stuff, you've got to get to the root. We do have a little small acrostic that really helps: STOP. How do I get to the root? Think of STOP.

Let's start with S: Sin, Self-talk, Stress. First, ask God, is there anything in my life that I have let come into my life that shouldn't be there? It might not be the case, but it's always a good place to start. Satan has hijacked conviction and calls it anxiety. We have coached people who are struggling with guilt over sin and they're like, "Well, I'm struggling with anxiety." I'm like, well, no, you need to repent of something. Sin, self-talk, negative self-talk, and then stress.

But then you've got the T, which is Trauma. That's trauma that could have happened to you emotionally, but it could have happened to you physically. You've got the O, which is Origin. Maybe you're somebody that runs like a sports car or maybe you're somebody that runs like an RV, a recreational vehicle. Origin in terms of your family, the way that nature, nurture, the way that you were raised. Then P would be Products—the stuff that you're putting into your body, whether it's food, whether it's alcohol, whether it's caffeine, whatever it is.

When I get to the T and I think about trauma, my dad experienced this. When my dad was in junior high, he had a teacher named Ma McKenna. Now my dad is 77 years old. He's spoken all over the world. He's a preacher, stood on stage and preached. I remember one time asking him, "Dad, why don't you have a book?" He said, "I'll never write a book." I'm like, "Why?" He said, "Because of Ma McKenna."

I was like, "Wait, I don't understand. Who is that?" He's like, "That was my seventh-grade English teacher. I wrote a paper once and she wrote so much red on there that it looked like she bled on it. At the top, she actually demeaned me in something that she said. Then she spoke it to the class. She told the class about it." He said it was humiliating. He vowed at that moment that he'd never write. He said to this day, "If I write a sermon or anything like that, I'm self-correcting while I'm writing because I still hear Ma McKenna."

This is six decades later. That was a traumatic event. Ma McKenna didn't mean that, but he went through something that was an emotional trauma. Going back to my story of when I almost thought I was going to pass out on stage, I realized when I went back and I used that acrostic, STOP, when I was 12 years old, I was in junior high and I had to go stand on stage in front of all these parents.

I had to model these uniforms that our junior high was going to have parents buy. I was one of the students that they said, "Hey, wear these clothes. You're going to stand on stage and model along with some other students." Do you know right before I walked on stage, my dad walked up to me and said, "Hey, Jace, listen, here's the thing. When I was in the military, we used to have to stand in formation for a long time. The guys who didn't bend their knees would pass out." He said, "So just bend your knees a little bit when you're standing on stage."

Jim Daly: Catholic weddings!

Jason Benham: What do you think that I was thinking at 12 years old when I was standing on stage? Don't pass out. I was sitting there bending my knees. Now fast forward to 47-year-old Jason about to stand on stage in Vidalia, Georgia, and something in my subconscious, a trauma that had happened—my dad didn't intend to traumatize me back then, but it was a traumatic event.

Now all of a sudden anxiety pulls that traumatic event. Here we are at 47. I was about to walk on stage not as 47-year-old confident Jason professional speaker, but as 12-year-old Jason freaked out that I'm going to pass out because of something my dad told me back when I was 12. I did not realize that. I didn't even think about that until I went through anxiety and was able to pull up some of that root there. That's why I say Second Corinthians 12 is so powerful. God was saying, "My strength is perfect in your weakness. I'm allowing you to be weak because I'm about to show you how I'm going to be strong, but you're going to have to get to some roots first."

Jim Daly: That can be scary. That can be a point of fear. Jason, explain why you believe God uses fear as an invitation. Fear can be confusing. "Fear God." Fear is in the Bible a lot, but we're trying to say sometimes God will use that to set an environment that draws you to Him.

Jason Benham: That's exactly right. You cannot be courageous if fear doesn't first present itself, right? That's why I think in Psalm 23 it says, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death." It's not the valley of death. The reality is always not as bad as the possibility. It's the shadow of death. What's bigger? Death or death's shadow? The shadow.

If I were to see a wolf, that would be pretty bad, but if I were to shine a flashlight on it and see the wolf's shadow, that's monstrous. That's terrifying. The shadow is always worse. Tori has a story of where she had to face that fear and realized that that is an invitation for you to stand strong and see what God can do when you operate out of faith and not fear.

Tori Benham: I grew up in a really small town in Torrington, Connecticut, and everyone that I knew—my parents, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles, my best friends' parents—they all worked together. It was just a very close-knit community, and that was just what I knew. When Jason and I first got married, we started having kids right away. That wasn't the plan, but I got pregnant five months after we got married, and that started baby number one, two, three, and four, and it kept me busy.

A few years in, Jason was traveling a lot. He had started several businesses, and there was an angst in my heart. I was home all the time, and I felt left out of Jason's life. I remember hearing John Gottman—he's a leading psychologist—he said that at the gridlock of every marital conflict are unrealized life dreams. I remember thinking that it really resonated with me because I had forgotten that I had had a life dream to work with Jason. I thought my life was going to look like my parents' life and my grandparents' life where they just did everything together. Now here's Jason and all his businesses. He's got business partners and I'm not the business partner. I remember just feeling that I longed for that, that I wanted that. That was a life dream of mine.

Shortly into our marriage, Jason has his master's in marriage and family. That opened the door to where a lot of couples were coming to us and saying, "Oh, Jason, you're a licensed marriage counselor. Can we get some marriage counseling?" We're just a couple years in and we're like, "Sure, but we're having our own issues." But what it did is it opened the door for us to do marriage ministry together. Slowly but surely, we began to do other things. We wrote a book on our marriage, and then we started getting asked to speak. That's when anxiety entered the picture for me.

I had always longed to do more with Jason, but I am not a public speaker. That is not something I ever wanted or asked for. When we got our first invitation to go and speak, I was like, "Oh, no, I don't do that. I want to do stuff with Jason, but not that." We did it, and it was horrible. I was so anxious. I was so tied up inside. I hated every minute. The first time that we did it, I came down with the flu. Your body responds to that stress.

But the Lord continued to open up these invitations for us to go and to speak together. As time went on and the Lord opened more doors, I thought I was breaking through it. I was getting some headway. We were asked to speak at a marriage conference.

Jason Benham: Well, that marriage conference was the Focus on the Family marriage conference.

Tori Benham: That's right. Here in Colorado! We showed up to this event and Dr. Gary Chapman was in the room. We walked up to him and Jason put his arm around him and he said, "You know who this is? This is Dr. Gary Chapman. He's written..."

Jason Benham: The best-selling marriage book of all time.

Jim Daly: I think he's the most prolific Christian author ever. *Five Love Languages*, etc. Incredible. And he's a good friend.

Tori Benham: He's a legend. He looked at me and he was so humble and so sweet. He said, "What are you guys speaking about tonight?" My heart just went to my feet because in that moment I felt like such an imposter. Who am I to speak in front of Dr. Gary Chapman? What am I doing?

Jim Daly: Well, that's humble.

Tori Benham: It was. I just felt the weight of projected powerlessness. I can't do this. I'm not a speaker. This is what Jason does. How did I get roped into this? I excused myself and I went to the bathroom and I sat in the stall and I was just gripped by anxiety. I don't want to do this. I don't want to be here.

It's in those moments of desperation that the Lord always speaks to me. I wish it wasn't so. I wish that I would be more intent to listen to Him in less intense moments. But in those moments of desperation, I said, "God, help me. I can't do this. I don't know how I got here, but here I am and I need Your help, Lord."

I just remember looking at the back of the stall, just thinking like God was there. He's going to say something, He's got to say something, You've got to help me. I just felt the presence of the Lord come over me. I felt like He said, "You don't have to do this. I invited you to do this."

It was just this calm that came over me when He said, "You don't have to do this. There's no pressure here. I just invited you to this." It was like this moment for me where I realized that just like I had this longing in my heart to do stuff with Jason, the Lord was giving this opportunity for us to do more and the Lord was saying to me, "I want to do stuff with you too. I am inviting you into a space with Me, and I know you can do it. I just invited you to come, but you don't have to do it. This is just an invitation."

Everything shifted for me. It wasn't, "I have to do this, I can't do this." It was the Lord saying to me, "Come. Do you want to come?" It reminded me of Peter in the boat when he wanted Jesus to step out. He's like, "Invite me to come. Call me out." Jesus says, "Okay, I'll call you out." Jesus says, "Come on." Then he gets in the water and he's fine until he thinks about himself. It's not that he's not trusting Jesus; it's that he's trusting his own ability. He's like, "I don't walk on water." And then he sinks.

I was doing the same thing. I'm like, "I don't do this. This is not who I am." I began to sink because I was focused on me. I was focused on my limitations, and I wasn't focused on the one who was saying "Come."

Jim Daly: That is such a wrap of what we're talking about. I hadn't thought about that Scripture in that way. That's all about anxiety and "What am I doing?" and "I'm sinking!" and the Lord reaches down and pulls Peter up out of the water. That's like everyday life for all of us in our own context, whatever that might be.

Jason Benham: You know what I've found? In moments like what Tori was experiencing, there are three things that you need to do: recognize, renounce, replace. You need to recognize where this thought is coming from. You need to recognize what's happening in the moment of the anxiety and you have to recognize the source of it. When I say the source, it all goes back to Satan. Satan is pulling the alarm on your fear. You are projecting powerlessness into the future and you need to recognize it happening in the moment.

That's like shining the light on your enemy. Now that you've shined the light on the enemy, how do you defeat him? Well, first, you have to renounce the lies he's tempting you to believe in that moment. The lie that you're unsafe. The lie that you need to control everything. The lie that it's all going to end in disaster. It's a lie. It's just a lie.

Then you need to replace it with truth. What does that look like? It looks like replacing worry with worship in that moment. Anxiety focuses on how. Worship focuses on who. Anxiety is going to focus on the problem, but worship focuses on the person. In that moment when Tori was in that stall, God got her out of thinking about herself and got her thinking about Him. That's why we say that fear is an invitation into something greater. That recognize, renounce, replace formula is—we dive into that in our book. The whole book is about that. We dissect that to help people and give them practical handles on how to get out of anxiety.

Jim Daly: I think when you look at maturing in Christ, I feel we need to say this, not to throw water on that, but the healthiest place you can get to is even if your circumstances are not dictating victory, that your trust in Christ is there. I think God smiles on that soul who can say, "Yeah, hey, you know, don't crucify me the same way as the Lord. Turn me upside down," which is what Peter said. That's having a grasp of your circumstances and then controlling them actually, being victorious in that. I don't mean that to be overly dramatic, but my goodness, talk about managing your fear and saying, "Hey, I know what's coming. I know death is going to come eventually for me, but I'm going to be submitted concretely in Christ because that's where everything comes from. That's where life comes from."

Jason Benham: It's so funny you say that because I literally thought that very thought in the middle of my anxiety. I thought, well, what's the worst that could happen? I thought, well, I could die. Then my brain went into, well, what happens if I die? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I would be with the Lord.

I thought of John the Baptist. We think about John the Baptist lost his head in prison. He literally had his head cut off. But I think about that. The few seconds just before his head was cut off, he's John the Baptist in a prison cell. A couple seconds later, he's John the Baptist giving God the Father a high five and hugging him up and God's like, "I got you here earlier than you thought, but isn't this great?" It's like where you can catastrophize it on purpose. Go to the worst thing that can happen and be okay with that, and then let's start working backwards.

Jim Daly: Even in that example, it's fascinating that John, sitting in prison, said, "Go to Jesus and ask Him, are You the one? Because if You're the one, why am I in prison?" That was really the extraction of that. Am I missing it? Did I not have it right? That was some of the self-doubt that he had. Then the word came back to it: "No, you're in the right place and just trust the Lord."

The heroes of our faith, we can identify with them. John the Baptist, you know, that he might have been a little offended. But just think about Jesus in the garden when He sweat drops of blood. Go and look that up; that's an anxiety episode in that moment. It shows you that Jesus died with no sin. So He didn't give in to anxiety. He didn't give in to that, but He was experiencing pressure to a point that I think only one other account in human history where they've sweat drops of blood. Jesus actually faced down anxiety and made it through. Like He really did it. Our own Savior experienced some of those same feelings that we have, the gut-burning sensations and all that kind of stuff, but He made it through. If He can make it through, we can make it through.

Jim Daly: That is the whole point. The last thought here is a child. There is something about a child that is so simple. They trust they're going to have a meal, they trust they're going to put their head down and get a good night's sleep. Jesus Himself said, "Don't hinder children coming to Me, because the kingdom of God is like these children."

I'm just sitting here thinking why you're yoked up with the Lord in this life to have that conversation with Him. That's what He's looking for. Just to look at Him and say, "Lord, man, this is easier" or "Thank You for this." "Why is this easier?" and just let your heart hear from Him through the Holy Spirit, the Word of God. Those are the promises that He gives you. Have that child-like heart to trust that He is there, to trust that He is.

Jason Benham: I love that you brought that up because when Tori and I did our interview with you guys on our book *Beauty in Battle*, our marriage book, I had just gotten past this anxiety stuff. I hadn't written the anxiety book or anything. You know while I was doing makeup with your makeup lady down there, I started to feel an episode coming on. My knee started to shake. This is right before I was coming on with you guys.

If you go back and watch that episode of *Beauty in Battle*, I was suffering some anxiety while I was talking with you guys. My knee was shaking, but you know I held on to what God reminded me of when I was sitting in her chair. "Hey, you get to do this. You get to be on Focus on the Family. There's no organization that has helped the family more worldwide than Focus on the Family, and I should be thankful for that." I was thanking the Lord. Halfway through our talk, I was great. This was fantastic.

Jim Daly: We're thankful you said yes several times and to have both of you here. Tori, it's great to have you here. It's just been a delight to remind everybody of what it means to rest, to be at peace with the Lord, to take that yoke up with Him and not try to carry this on our own.

If you're in that spot, could you get a hold of us? We're here for that. Nothing's going to embarrass you. We've been at this 48, 49 years now, and we've heard a lot of input from listeners in the past. We've put that all in databases. We have resources for just about every situation you're going to face in your life. Let us be there to minister to you. It's a privilege for us to do that and for the donors who support Focus to be able to make that happen.

When I'm meeting with the donors having a meal with somebody that has helped us, they are in. They're saying, "This is what we want you to be doing." I love it. My job is to run Focus effectively and efficiently so you can do ministry through it with your finances and your prayers. I'll make that commitment, and we just need you to step up and support us as well. If you can make a gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for being connected to the ministry and providing those counselors to do those calls and helping people get to a better place with Christ.

John Fuller: Pray with us and for us, and we so appreciate that. As you can, donate generously today, and we'll send that book *Unshakable* to you. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. We've got details about connecting with our counselors, donating, and getting this book and other resources to help all on our website: focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Let me encourage you to make a monthly commitment to Focus. Jean and I support Focus that way; I know you and Dena do as well, John. Thank you, by the way, if I haven't said it lately.

John Fuller: It's a privilege. I believe in this ministry.

Jim Daly: Let me tell you why. Here's the payback. Here's the report on the investor investment. We got a note from a gentleman named Andy and he said, "Even as a Christian, I struggled with resentment, insecurity, and shame. Those are all things that can lead to anxiety. The Lord uses Focus on the Family's podcast as one of His tools to bring me out of those pits. Thanks to you and all of your guests who have been willing to share their brokenness and point people like me back to Christ. Humility is a precious commodity; keep shining it."

You guys have done a beautiful job of that. That's written right to you, to be able to come on and talk about your lives, that brokenness, but where God healed. Thank you for doing that on behalf of Andy.

Jason Benham: Praise God. Thanks for having us.

John Fuller: Once again, you can donate to help encourage and support more families at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Coming up tomorrow, some practical advice for moms and dads about kids and sports.

Guest (Male): It really does start with us as parents, just taking a deep breath. It's just a game, a game that they can play and enjoy. We can sit back as their parents and enjoy the stage of life and watch them play and not put so much pressure on them to be what we hope they can be at 16 while they're six years old.

John Fuller: That's next time on Focus on the Family. Remember, when you get in touch, let us know how you're listening—on our website, through our mobile app, or on our podcast feed. I'm John Fuller and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, join us next time as we help you and your family thrive.