Focus on the Family

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John Fuller: This is John Fuller, and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast, app, or website.

Michelle Lentz: Realizing that our inner dialogue can sabotage our marriage, our view of our husbands, and what we think is true. Once we think about it long enough, we start to think it's the truth. Yeah, our husband really is lazy. Look at that, he left his socks on the floor again. He didn't pick that up again. He forgot to pick this up again. He doesn't know that I have this tab going of all the reasons he's not a good guy.

Jim Daly: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and today we're going to be looking at the early years of marriage. We have a woman expert here to help us do that. Jim, to start us off, what are some examples of advice that young adults might get about marriage? I'm wondering what you think of advice like this: marriage is easy when you find the one, right? But conflict, that's a bad thing.

John Fuller: That's a good one, but here's one that's a little worse. Marriage is like a walk in the park—Jurassic Park.

Jim Daly: Okay, I remember somebody said you'll be able to change him. That'll be easy. I'm not sure that's easy to change us guys. I remember I actually met Red Skelton. Do you remember that comedian? I met him twice. He lived in Palm Springs. I went to high school near there, and I think my mom knew him, which is a weird connection.

Red Skelton was hilarious, but he once quipped, "All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them a little sooner." That's how it goes. Today we do want to talk about that beginner wife. John, you and I are not qualified to talk about this. Maybe we could do a book on the beginner husband. That might be a good thing to do.

But today it's Michelle Lentz encouraging all of us about the beginner wife. She's written a great book, *Hey, Beginner Wife*. We're going to talk with her about those things that she's learned over the years to help coach and provide wisdom to younger wives. But I think this applies to men and to older couples as well.

John Fuller: Yeah, this is solid marriage advice for anybody and everybody. You can learn more about Michelle and her book, *Hey, Beginner Wife: Practical Tips and Heartfelt Advice to Help You Have a Happy Marriage*, at our website.

Jim Daly: Michelle, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Michelle Lentz: Thank you.

Jim Daly: This is your first time.

Michelle Lentz: It's my first time, but I'm a fan, so I feel like I've been here before.

Jim Daly: Well, it's great. You've been a longtime listener, so we appreciate that. You've written this book now, *Hey, Beginner Wife*. I think our heart is the same as yours, that young people—not just girls and women, but young men too—are not doing the family formation.

Michelle Lentz: I think they're afraid it's not going to work. I think they're afraid it's going to end in divorce like it did for their parents. I think they move in together because they want to take it for a trial run and they don't want it to sour or go bad or lose the feeling that they have for one another. So they stay away from marriage thinking that that's going to somehow ruin everything.

Jim Daly: It's an interesting plight because it's too late to rectify that when you've done that. We're not putting a guilt trip on anybody. Some people, the scripture says, God's going to call you to singleness. We're not going to make an idol out of marriage. But most people tend to marry because we want companionship and friendship. But you got to be careful as a Christian to discern what the culture is telling you and what the Lord is telling you through the scripture.

Michelle Lentz: Right.

Jim Daly: And you know, we've got to be on top of that, right? So that was your motivation. Let's move to the content that you're driving at. We said in the beginning there, this is information that's really valuable for everybody, not just newly married young women. Do you think it has that general application?

Michelle Lentz: Oh, of course. Because what I'm talking about is good if you're not married yet, to kind of tell you, "Hey, this is part of marriage, so get it right. Choose wisely right now." If you're a newlywed, I think it's nice to know what's coming so it doesn't take you by surprise. You know, that sense of, "Oh, wait, he's not perfect and I thought he was perfect."

How do you handle that? How do we approach it? And then when you're in ten years to find out other people have been through the same thing. Other people have walked through difficult times and they made it through. I think we think we're going through something challenging, like, "Oh, it's all over for us." I tried to put in a lot of stories to say, "Hey, this happened and this is part of a normal, healthy marriage. It's going to happen for you too, and you're going to get through it."

Jim Daly: So you and Steve had that difficulty. I mean, you guys got married, you had expectations about what marriage would look like, how much he would communicate with you, all those wonderful things. How long did it take after the "I do" did you start going, "What's happening?"

Michelle Lentz: You know, it wasn't so much the "what's happening." It was more of we weren't on the same page because I was trying to micromanage things so that at the end of every day we were good. Like, "Let's talk about the way we handled that conversation. Maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to criticize or I shouldn't have said that." And he finally just said, "Honey, can we just enjoy each other? We don't have to look back at every day and try to figure out what to do better." And I'm thinking, but that's how you build a really strong foundation. You make sure that you get it right at everything. So I was way too intense in the beginning and he was causing trouble, like, "Let's talk about it."

Jim Daly: So he was chilling and you were wanting to make all the home improvements within your relationship.

Michelle Lentz: Yes, I was causing trouble.

Jim Daly: Yeah, and for him, I mean, did that irritate you or how did you process that in the early years? Like is he not committed to making this better?

Michelle Lentz: Yeah, I really thought it was more that he just didn't understand that communication was important.

Jim Daly: What about that area of dreams when you start thinking about things you want to do and where you're going to be five years from now? I'm not good at that actually, it's kind of funny. But how did you manage those dreams being dashed? And what dreams did you have?

Michelle Lentz: The vision was that I would stay home with the children, that we would have a big happy family, that he would work full-time to support us. And we were headed that direction, making the sacrifices we needed to make. He was self-employed, so we would get extra money, he would pour it right back into the company, and we just lived on a budget to support his business thinking that that was going to get us to the larger house, the cars we needed, everything that we needed.

Jim Daly: So those were the dreams. And then what happened?

Michelle Lentz: Well, we were pregnant with number five, living in a small house because we were in Los Angeles and anything you can afford is going to be tiny. It was a thousand square feet. And in January of that year, there was a huge earthquake, the Northridge earthquake. We lived two miles from the epicenter, so it hit us strong. And it basically took our house and shook it. And in the middle of the night, we went, we grabbed the kids, brought them into the bedroom with us.

Not knowing that what it was going to mean was Steve lost his business. He was a real estate appraiser. So people are leaving LA. They don't want to appraise their homes, they're walking away from their homes. And over the next six months his business dried up, which meant our mortgage couldn't be paid. It meant our car couldn't be paid for. It meant that we were getting creative to buy groceries and we had to move out of LA because we couldn't do it.

We moved into my parents' home in Chicago. They said, "Hey, we're getting ready to downsize, we're going to sell our four-bedroom house, but we'll put that on hold if you guys want to come out here and rent our home. You can move in, we'll move out, and then we'll play it by ear and see what happens." So we moved across country.

Jim Daly: You know, let me ask you about this because looking at the book, reading the material for this morning's discussion, it dawned on me. A lot of brides are coming from home. They're living at home until they get married or they're in a good position financially. And they might have a job, but they've been at home. They may pay a little bit of rent, but it's probably not what they would pay on their own.

And then they get married and there's this adjustment that you're now on your wedding budget—your marriage budget. I think that could be a little halting to a bride who's come from a middle-class home where she got the job at In-N-Out Burger, she's making enough money to do well, whatever. And then you get married and now it's all yours; mom and dad aren't really helping out. That can be a reality check. What advice do you give in the book for that budgeting process and what she can do to live in the moment and control the moment?

Michelle Lentz: You know, I encourage her to be content with what her circumstances are today. And the challenge of that is not to compare yourself to somebody else. So the advice is, what does looking content in this season look like for you? And it may look like celebrating the fact that your husband is home for the night sitting on the couch with you, not working extra long hours. It may look like, "Let's celebrate the fact that we're all going to the park and we can do a picnic," rather than bemoaning the fact that we are not going to Disneyland like everyone else is. So being content and really cultivating that thankful heart of finding things to be thankful for.

John Fuller: Good advice from Michelle Lentz, and this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Michelle has written a terrific book called *Hey, Beginner Wife: Practical Tips and Heartfelt Advice to Help You Have a Happy Marriage*. Get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. The link is at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: You have a story in the book which connects to Focus on the Family where you heard a broadcast that helped change your paradigm with respect for your husband. What happened?

Michelle Lentz: So at the time, Focus was available to me on the radio only exclusively. And so I would run errands at that time so I could listen to it.

Jim Daly: A super consumer. I love that.

Michelle Lentz: Yeah, I was like, that's when I'm going to listen to it. So I'm in the car and this is on the car this particular day was Dr. Dobson and Emerson Eggerichs, who I'd never heard of. But they're talking about men and the language of respect. And I'm always fascinated by marriage conversations, so I'm listening and I'm thinking this is going to be good. I haven't heard about this, but I've read so many books. I know that whatever they have to say I'm probably already doing this, but let's hear it.

So they're talking about a man in conflict with his wife and when they're arguing what that sounds like. And Emerson gives this example. He says, "You know, a man, you're going back and forth and the man finally just gets up and said, 'That's it, we're done talking now,' and he walks out the room." And I was stunned while I'm driving thinking, "Wait a minute, that's exactly what Steve says. How does this guy know that?" And I couldn't figure out why Steve would walk out on me in our conversations for improvement.

They had a goal, a working conversation. And I am all about communication thinking it's an investment in the marriage. So when Steve would get up and say, "You know, that's it, we're done now," and I knew he was done. I mean, there was nothing that would happen that would keep us talking until tomorrow. And I would sit there feeling so frustrated with him. "Why can't he go the distance? I can talk for another hour. We can finish this if he'll just hang in there." And I thought he was the weaker of the two and that I needed to teach him how to communicate.

Sadly, that's true. So I listened some more and he said, "You know, when your husband shuts down or when he gets angry, it means that he feels disrespected and he doesn't want to disrespect you in return." So rather than say something he's going to regret, he's going to walk out of the room or he's going to get silent. And I'd seen both of those things and was fascinated by it. I completely misjudged what was going on.

I thought Steve was weak, and come to find out it meant that he loved me. It meant that he was strong. It was something that I could respect about him. And I learned that I was being disrespectful toward Steve in the way I criticized him, in the way I was passing judgment on what he was doing. And I began to change. I pulled back and I thought, "I'm treating him like I'm his mother. I didn't marry him to treat him like I'm his mother. He doesn't want to be married to a woman who's constantly critiquing him." Emerson was right, disrespectful here. "Do you shut down sometimes because you're upset with me?" Like, "Yes."

But my biggest takeaway that I actually write about in my book is be careful not to treat your husband like his mother. Don't go into mother mode. Think about what you're about to say and judge it through the lens of: is this going to sound like his mother talking to him or his girlfriend?

Jim Daly: Now I've got to ask because a young wife—an older wife—is listening going, "Yeah, you don't know my husband. If I don't do those things, he doesn't get it done. He doesn't do the thing he needs to do." So I want to be cautious that it's all on the wife and if I just learn how to do my job better, then he's in a better place. Well, of course that's true, but that's true with the shoe on the other foot as well. So husbands have to do their homework, better understand what their wives need in communication and connecting emotionally and not fleeing the room and trying to get to some... so I just want to make sure that balance is there.

Michelle Lentz: Thank you. That's a really good balance. And I would say I don't call them old wives, I call them seasoned wives, okay? Thank you for that correction. Seasoned wives. But that's so true and learning how to communicate that to your husband because there were things that weren't getting done. I mean, nagging—we come by nagging honestly because it's not happening and we're frustrated. So sitting down and saying, "How can we deal with this? Because I've asked you to do it three times and so if I come back at you, I know it's going to sound like I'm nagging, but what are my options here? Because I'm frustrated." So those conversations are great in a moment of non-conflict to sit down and figure out how you're going to communicate with one another.

Jim Daly: Michelle, let me go to what I think is a hilarious example in the book: the remodel, the home improvement project. Now if you've done that well as a married couple, just let us know, put a note in the show note or call us, whatever. Describe your adventure into the home improvement project with Steve.

Michelle Lentz: Well, I gave that example of me responding as his mother or as his girlfriend. So we took a Saturday to work on the house and Steve's role was to paint a room. And my role was to clean out a closet upstairs. So I'm upstairs, he's downstairs working, and I come down at the end of the morning to make lunch. And our home is structured in such a way that you go down the stairs and you can see right into the family room, but not into the kitchen.

So I see him there on the couch. He is showered, he's got a snack, and he's watching golf. And he just looks content. But I can tell that the room is painted and it looks really nice. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, Steve, this looks amazing." So in my mind, he's done, right? I go into the kitchen then to make my lunch, and it is a disaster. It is paint central. He has the roller on the counter, the paintbrushes in the sink, no cleanup. And I immediately lost all my zeal for the painted room and thought, "Come on." I was just upset on multiple levels and I looked at it and I just wanted to scream, "What is this?" or "Excuse me?" or "Um, this is a mess." Any number of things.

Jim Daly: Well, you had a point there. It was a fair point that he didn't clean up.

Michelle Lentz: Well, we can think that as wives, that it's a fair point, and then that gives us license to just go off and scream at our husbands, right? So I took a deep breath and I went into the other room and said something like, "Honey, so what's up with the kitchen?" Just an open-ended question that left room for him to say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot," or "Oh honey, I'm just going to get to that. I just needed to sit down first," or whatever. But the ball was in his court now; I'm not accusing him of anything.

And I was shocked. He said, "Well, just let me know when you need to get in there and I'll get it done." Like he completely took ownership. Best case scenario, but I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt that that was going to be his response until I chose not to accuse him of doing it. And sure enough, that's what he said. He's like, "Honey, I'll get in there right now if you need to make lunch."

Jim Daly: You're pointing out something really important, and that's going with an assumed motivation over action. And it's completely reasonable—it's not unreasonable just to give the wives that fair kind of understanding of "Wait a minute." But just asking the question is a helpful thing.

Michelle Lentz: And how we ask it, without an accusation there, with an open-ended question. And one of my favorite takeaways about this book is the idea that we can believe the best about our husbands and that that's a gift that we bring to the marriage is choosing to believe the best about him and his motivation. And that does not come naturally. It didn't come naturally to me.

Jim Daly: So how did you learn that? What began to happen to allow you to relax and let him get to it on his schedule? There's no burning bush here, so he could watch his golf and then he could clean it up.

Michelle Lentz: Well, I know it doesn't happen this way with everyone, so women can learn from my example. I was in that season where it was after the earthquake. Steve was working 10, 12-hour days, gone all the time, but he was exhausted and I was exhausted. And I remember one particular Sunday after church, we came home, we put the kids down for a nap. I haven't seen the man all week and I am so excited that we have a long time. I envision we're going to sit on the couch and talk—talk finally. And Steve sits on the couch, lays on the couch, and turns on baseball.

And I could tell that's all he wanted to do. I was so mad that I thought I can't say anything or it's going to be ugly because I feel hurt. So I went outside in the backyard. And we had built a sandbox—a huge sandbox, almost the size of this little area here. And I just started walking the perimeter of this sandbox in a prayer walk to tell the Lord I was over it, that this wasn't fair, that my husband was selfish, and "Hey, did you happen to notice what he's doing in the house right now?"

So I went to have a prayer conversation and I fully thought that at the end of this conversation I was going to feel better. I was going to feel this support from above that I was the good wife, that yes, I had it difficult, that yes, my husband was selfish, and be affirmed in my situation. After ten minutes of me just spewing how upset I was with Steve, I finally reached the end of that and I got quiet and I walked a few more laps and I heard this still small voice say, "You're too hard on him."

And it stopped me in my tracks. And I thought, "Oh my gosh, I am. Listen to me." And I began to think, okay, what's another angle from this? How does the Lord see this? I have a 32-year-old husband whose wife is expecting baby number five. He's working full-time to support me so I can stay home, which was our dream and our vision. And I'm so mad at him. I am going to begrudge him the opportunity to lay on the couch and watch baseball?

I was so humbled by the fact that all the focus was on me and my experience and I wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt that that moment taught me to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to see it from a different angle of what was it like for Steve? Because here he is, 32. Some of his friends aren't even married yet, and he has the responsibility to provide for a family of seven. And he's going to have a wife that tells him, "What are you doing on that couch? Sit here and talk to me." It really stopped me in my tracks and that's the moment where I thought, "I need to give him the benefit of the doubt for the hard work that he's doing." Yes, I'm doing something hard too, but I can say thank you by showing appreciation for what he's doing and that was the shift.

Jim Daly: You know, in those shifts in attitude are what end up coming out of you, right? The words you speak, the way you believe about something, not second-guessing motivation. I mean, that attitude shift is kind of core and foundational. You know, and I think rooted in the right thing—scripture and our attitude toward one another, that we're one flesh, we're actually on the same team, we're not working against each other. And it's so critical.

I think the importance of that, and you've touched on it, but being that wingman for Steve, as you described in the book, and coupling that with friendship. You know, you can do this in a difficult way. And I think so many marriages today are in that rut that you know we're adversarial. Why? I mean, why not do it with an attitude that we're in this together, we're teammates. So let's find a way to communicate better, to do life better together, to raise the kids in a way that honors the Lord, all those right things. So the question is: how do we do that?

Michelle Lentz: So we do forget that we're on the same team. And one thing I discovered just accidentally during another season where we've already moved to Chicago now and Steve is working full-time—he's still working a lot. And I'm with the kids all day. I'm staying home with them, I'm homeschooling them. So I know what they need from dad when they get home. Now dad comes to the door, all the kids rush to the door and want to see dad. Well, there's enough kids in our house where one or two might get overlooked, right?

And so I realized that Steve would come home sometimes and miss what I thought was important. And on a particular day, it might be that I took the girls to get a haircut. And he came home one time and he didn't notice something like that. And it dawned on me all I have to do is give him a heads-up—little intel. He's not not noticing because he doesn't want to. So I called him at work and I said, "Hey honey, when you get home today, can you notice Mary's haircut?"

And he's like, "Oh, thank you for the heads-up. Yes." And he came home and he's looking at all the kids and he sees Mary and he goes, "Oh honey, you look so beautiful!" And she beams, you know, and daddy is now her hero and he's happy because he got to be the hero. And what really struck me about that is what if I didn't do that? Because that first time he came home and didn't notice it, you know what I would think is, "What kind of a dad doesn't notice that his daughter just got her haircut?"

And I can condemn him and think, is he in his own head? I mean, come on, this is so obvious, she's right there. Or he's sulking in the other room. And realizing that our inner dialogue can sabotage our marriage, our view of our husbands, and what we think is true. Once we think about it long enough, we start to think it's the truth. "Yeah, our husband really is lazy. Look at that, he left his socks on the floor again. He didn't pick that up again. He forgot to pick this up again."

He doesn't know that I have this tab going of all the reasons he's not a good guy. And that's on me. And so I write about that for these beginner wives of "don't go there." Take a look at your inner dialogue. Challenge yourself to root that out. And where you want to accuse him, what's he doing well? You can look at that and go, "Wow, he worked eight hours and still came home with a smile on his face." We can replace all those accusations with what we're thankful for about him and that shifts the whole narrative of a marriage.

Jim Daly: Sounds like the core. Michelle, this has been so good and the time has flown by. But man, what great instincts—the seasoned wife to the beginner wife and to everybody in between, really, husbands or wives of all stripes and years married. This is so good. Thanks for being with us. Appreciate it. And I think everybody needs a copy of this one. This will start some dialogue. We'll wait for Steve's new book, *The Beginner Husband*. Should happen, but he sounds a little busy. But maybe that's another one that can be done.

Get in touch with us if you're going, "Wow, I need these insider tips." Get in touch with us and order it directly from Focus on the Family. Make a gift of any amount, monthly or one-time, and we'll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for helping other families.

John Fuller: And your support really does make such a huge difference in helping families literally around the world. We're a phone call away: 800-A-FAMILY. Or donate online and get a copy of Michelle's book, *Hey, Beginner Wife: Practical Tips and Heartfelt Advice to Help You Have a Happy Marriage*.

And if you're feeling the need for some support today, we have so many resources for you here at the ministry. Our free online marriage assessment would be a great starting point. It'll take maybe 10 or 12 minutes of your time to complete and it highlights areas where your marriage is thriving. It offers some insights about areas for improvement and ways to take steps ahead. It's a terrific assessment. Over a million people have taken it. All the great resources and your opportunity to donate are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.