Focus on the Family

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This is John Fuller and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast, app, or website.

Let those sounds bring back some memories, fumbling to get your locker open, scrambling to get to class, or you're trying to find the right seat at the table during lunch. It's a tough season to go back to seventh, eighth, ninth grade. There was so much that we experienced then.

School for today's kids is really hard during this time and everything is new and intimidating. It just seems like it's on steroids for middle schoolers. Today's guests on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly are former teachers and authors Sue Acuña and Cynthia Tobias. They're going to equip you to understand and support your middle school child through all the pressures they're facing.

Jim Daly: Yesterday we talked about the physical and emotional changes middle schoolers go through and some crucial conversations to have with them. It is a normal time to back up as a parent because you're trying to give them space, but I think middle schoolers, what we heard yesterday, is to lean in. Make sure they feel listened to, heard, that you have good dialogue with them, that things are open and honest, and that you don't have all the answers. You really need to hear your kids and respect them.

If you missed it last time, get the app, download it, listen in with us. There was so much good content last time. Here at Focus on the Family, we're here to help you through that journey. That's why we published this book, *Middle School: The Inside Story*. Here's the great part that Cynthia and Sue, the byline which is *What Kids Tell Us, But Don't Tell You*. They did a bunch of research, they're both schoolteachers, they went out, talked to students, where are they at, what are they feeling, what are they sensing, and we're going to cover the other part of that today.

Sue and Cynthia, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Good to have you again.

Cynthia Tobias: Good to be here. Thanks.

Jim Daly: Let's get rolling. I think we piqued the interest last time. I remember those middle school years and they were just so unique. Cynthia, what are some tips for parents who are trying to communicate with middle schoolers? I've heard parents describe it like, "I'm from Earth and my middle schooler is from Mars." It's like we're talking a different language, we don't really connect, we don't communicate. How do we as the adult do a better job in creating a way for that to happen in a healthier direction?

Cynthia Tobias: One of my favorite stories that they told us, and I think we were both a little bit surprised by, but we said, your parents worry that they don't know what's going on in your life. They're not sure who your friends are and you don't want to talk to them, you don't want to tell them what it is.

One honest middle schooler said, "If you really want the tip, volunteer to be the carpool driver and then don't say anything. Don't react, don't say anything, and pretty soon everybody forgets you're there and you find out a whole lot of stuff. Don't react to it." We found out that really works.

Jim Daly: How can it not work? But some of the parents, let's face it, we all have temperaments. I can just envision a parent, mom or dad, who feels this burden to correct, to teach, to admonish. It's part of what we do. You're telling me not to say a word?

Cynthia, how do I do that? How do you catch yourself as the adult and frame that emotional moment to say, "Bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue," especially if that's hard for you?

Cynthia Tobias: Sue makes a good point when she tells parents, look, you're moving from parent to manager in some ways. You used to do all the telling, what you wear, where you go, but when you get into middle school, it really becomes more a management.

You talk in the book about these moments of reflection, but one is where you recommend a parent respond appropriately if their child complains about the amount of homework they have. Every parent has a child who complains. When that child complains, I've got so much homework to do tonight, what's a good thing to say as the parent?

Sue Acuña: "I remember that feeling," which is empathy. I just preach empathy all the time.

Jim Daly: As opposed to what?

Sue Acuña: "Well, you better get started."

Jim Daly: "You're going to do that before dinner?"

Sue Acuña: Right, "You better do that before you go outside, it's got to get done so you better, you don't have a choice if you want to get that grade." It's the same thing I want my husband to say if I come home and say, "I have a lot of work tonight," I don't want him to say, "Well, you better do it now." I want him to have some empathy and say, "That's a bummer. Do you need a snack first? Can I get you something?" A 13-year-old would appreciate that tone too. One is far more encouraging, the other more directive, commanding, demanding. One communicates understanding. You're trying to model that so that's how they'll pick up how to treat others.

Cynthia Tobias: What are the most common mistakes parents tend to make in communicating with their middle schoolers? You have a list. I've got it in front of me, let me hit it and you can respond. Interrupting, downplaying feelings, yelling, using "always" and "never," not really listening, belittling in front of others, being judgmental, solving their problems, being sarcastic. Check, check, check. I think I did all of those and I thought I was a pretty good parent, but this is convicting.

We've spent a lot of years making sure they're happy and it's hard to give up that feeling of "I need to make you happy all the time." They don't want that, they don't want you to solve their problem, they want you to understand what they're going through. Hopefully with a wise spouse you're not saying, "Every time she does this she breaks a glass." That's not the way we speak in marriage. They're very much responding like adults and I think that's where the tension comes with parents and middle schoolers is they're still thinking of them as five-year-olds and they're feeling very much like adults middle schoolers are inside. I think that's probably the biggest aha of this whole program, you have to start treating them like adults. It's time and that's the best outcome you could have.

Jim Daly: Sue, I'll aim this at you. How can parents help erase the stress of kids who are nervous about the transition from elementary school to junior high? Let's put this in a boys' context and a girls'. The frightening thing going from sixth grade to seventh grade is PE because now you're getting dressed, you're putting on certain garments in PE, you're going out.

I remember one of my first experiences going from junior high to high school and this guy, as an experiment of his, I'm standing behind him and Glenn was his name and he's a friend and he's a believer now, he wasn't then, thank you, Glenn. He was standing in front of me and he was a grade ahead of me and he was a swimmer, he had muscles where I had no muscles. He turned as he was talking to another guy and punched me right in the sternum and it cracked my sternum and it was so out of nowhere. "Why did you just do that?" He continues to talk to the guy going, "See, he's a freshman, he hasn't filled out yet like we have. We're more filled out." I was like just his hanging skeleton there. That's the kind of thing you dread as a boy, now you're the object of a science experiment at PE class about how you're not as developed as the other guy.

Sue Acuña: I think it's good for dads to say, "Listen, this is what I looked like in sixth grade, but look what I looked like in 10th grade. Lie low." That's not bad advice, especially if you're a lowerclassman. Lie low, but it does get better. Or find even pictures of professional athletes, here's what they look like at 13, here's what they look like at 20. Hang in there, we'll get better.

You're not always going to look like this and this is just part of the growth process and some boys are going to be bigger. Now explain the girls because there's a lot going on for them, other girls are developing more quickly, it's obvious and they're feeling like "Am I ever going to get there?" Just describe what girls are dealing with.

Sue Acuña: I think the first thing always is, "I remember that, I remember that feeling." Looking around your bodies aren't the same as everybody else's. Wait it out and maybe even it's not too young to talk about some kind of a simple age-appropriate makeover.

Let's talk about what good colors are for you, something that's really innocuous as opposed to emphasizing your body shape or something, but what are colors that look good on you, what are lengths that look good on you, are you more comfortable in skirts or pants? They're going to be constantly comparing themselves to everybody else.

Jim Daly: How much of that are we demonstrating or illustrating for our kids? How much time do we spend in front of the mirror getting our makeup on, now speaking for moms, but dads. "I wish I could lose 50 pounds, I would look so much better." So watch what you say.

Jim Daly: Cynthia, we mentioned homework, but let's bring this back. I remember Trent and I, we had such a battle because he was really bright. He's finishing his master's in biochemistry, he wants to go on for a PhD in neuro research. In high school it was like, "I already get A's on the test, why do I need to do the homework?" We would say, "Well, 50% of your grade is based on the homework being completed."

"I know, but I'm good with a C and I know the concepts and it's kind of boring to do the homework." We battled that all along through to senior year.

Cynthia Tobias: The important question is, what's the point? That is the point, but teachers don't go along with that because a lot of times the point is you have to get this and this and this in order to get your grade. That's very frustrating to a kid who says, "Why should I have to do 25 practice problems when I already know I'm going to get an A on the test?" It's a true question and it's a legitimate question.

There's no real good solid answer other than we need to change some things. I can remember working with King Schools once and a gal who was really, really sharp, fifth grade, sixth grade, that middle school area. She already knew she was going to go to Bryn Mawr and she was going to do all these things, she was just sharp. One day she was especially sharp in math, but one day she just told the teacher, "I'm not going to do the homework."

He says, "You can't get an A if you don't do the homework."

"I don't care."

"It's going to ruin your whole grade point average."

"I don't care. I don't understand why I have to do this."

The teacher and I talked and I said, well, what if you asked her, what if you just tried it and said, how about you do as many questions on the homework as you think you need to do in order to prove that you're going to get an A on the test? If she promises to get a 95% or higher on the test or go back and do more of those problems. They tried it and sometimes she did 30 problems and sometimes she did three, but he said she got an A.

Jim Daly: It does show you need some insight into your child and their learning styles and that's a whole another book that you wrote, *How Your Kids Learn*. That's so important as well.

John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guests today are Cynthia Tobias and Sue Acuña. They've collaborated on a book that is essential if you have kids who are approaching the teen years, if they're pre-teens. *Middle School: The Inside Story: What Kids Tell Us, But Don't Tell You*. Get a copy from us here at the ministry and when you're online doing that, be sure to take our free parenting assessment which helps you understand where you're at in your parenting journey and maybe some things that you can work on. These and other resources are going to be found at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Cynthia, let me ask you about some of the red flags we should be aware of when our kids are going into junior high and their time in junior high, because emotionally, intellectually, things can change because of the environmental pressure on a child. An extroverted child can become quite sullen and withdrawn if there's things going on that we don't even know. What are some of those red flags we need to pay attention to?

Sue Acuña: This is where I really learned a lot from Sue because I was teaching high school, I was used to dealing with high school kids who've kind of passed some of those marks, but Sue has a really good handle of it and I learned a lot.

Sue Acuña: I think two things parents really learn about are depression and eating disorders. Things I watch for would be kids who withdraw more than usual. Kids want their own space, but if they're constantly alone and they won't answer your questions what's going on, "Nothing, I don't want to talk about it." That's a concern if it keeps happening.

Maybe they're having a bad day, but if this is going on for weeks and you can see their eating habits have changed, maybe they're not eating at all, then you know something's really wrong. One sure sign of an eating disorder is wearing big baggy clothes or taking little nibbly bites. You have to be aware. For parents today a lot of times that means coming off your phone and really taking a look at your kid and see what's going on.

Jim Daly: And being engaged. Maybe not affirming how skinny they are.

Sue Acuña: Or even commenting on it. My daughter-in-law has taught me, make no comments about your weight or anybody else's weight, just don't even make it a topic. That's really different from how we grew up.

Jim Daly: One of the things that again with social media is new and I'm not sure we as parents know how to manage this well and we're hearing more about it and it puts a lot of fear into us as parents. Kids are taken into a friend group and then they're bullied and then even where comments are made, "You should just kill yourself," and a handful of kids have done it and it gets into the news. It's horrible, but how do you have that kind of a discussion with your daughter or your son about what can occur in that cyber world and the pain in it and the viciousness of it? We don't want to heap a bunch of anxiety onto our children, but how do we manage that?

Sue Acuña: Odds are pretty good that they know someone who has already gone through this and that would be a good more neutral question to ask, "Hey, do you know of any of your friends who have been bullied online or who are really depressed about it?"

Then they can start talking about it which gives you a chance to talk about what we should do if that ever happens to you. Like I said it's hard to admit that you're being bullied, but even to come and say, "I don't like what this person is saying."

Sue Acuña: Parents need to monitor phone use. This is one of the hardest things for parents is to not let them take their phone, their smartwatch, their iPad into the bedroom without some rules, some limitations. You wouldn't let a stranger show up at your door and say, "I want to go talk to your daughter in her bedroom," you wouldn't let that happen, but she can absolutely do that on her phone.

Cynthia Tobias: One of the things about suicide, the discoveries I made both as being a police officer but then also with the kids, a lot of times at that age they don't think it's actually permanent. They think they're going to kill themselves and everybody will be sorry and then they'll come back and everything will be okay. I was blown away by that, but there is that mentality out there if you haven't as a parent talked to them and established that relationship especially with Christ and with eternity. They may just decide, well, I'll just kill myself and they'll be sorry and then I'll come back when I feel like it.

Jim Daly: Building up that plan and purpose. This is a good place to mention our counseling department so this is a very serious topic, but it is present and we wanted to make sure we at least touch on that. If you're struggling in any area of the parenting journey, especially around the middle school years but any form or shape in your parenting, give us a call. We have free counselors, they'll talk with you for 30 to 60 minutes and give you some perspective. They may even refer to a counselor in your area that you could pick up the discussion with. Know that that's here, that's part of what donors fund at Focus on the Family, take advantage of it to make sure that you have some perspective.

Discipling your children can look very different at different stages. Elementary school you got the little book and you're trying to do things. What does middle school discipleship look like within the family?

Cynthia Tobias: You model it. This is where it's really important. Growing up, my sister and I, we had supper time, after supper we always had a devotional book and a scripture and we prayed. My dad was adamant about that and when we went through even the real awkward time, that was an anchor and that's really important.

The other thing I found was interesting, Sue talked about when middle schoolers pull away and they don't want to have hugs and they don't want to have all that kid stuff. She said but they still do desperately want the touch and need the touch.

Cynthia Tobias: You can sometimes sit on the couch and just let your legs touch there and nobody says anything, no big deal, but it's still connection that says, "I see you, I love you, I'm not going to bug you but you're still really important to me."

Jim Daly: Speak for a minute broadly to elementary, middle school, and high school parenting. You taught I think two of those, Cynthia you with high school teaching, Sue with junior high. When you're we've kind of touched on it, but really to be black and white for parents, maybe they have their kids in elementary school right now. What does that look like as they move through? In junior high your parenting needs to shift, you've touched on it, but here at the end I want to make sure parents are grabbing it so that they understand. High school is yet another kind of distancing to allow them independence, making good decisions, etc. Sue.

Sue Acuña: Yesterday Cynthia mentioned that you want to become more of a manager. Imagine you're training a new employee. Elementary school you've got to tell them everything, they don't know anything. Middle school junior high they're starting to get it, you can kind of check in with them, have some guidelines. High school you've got to let them try it on their own but you're still there as their failsafe if something goes wrong. You've got to slowly back away, like we said, work yourself out of a job. Give them some independence, let them try it, be there when it goes wrong, be there to hold them together.

Jim Daly: This gives you structure in how to think about doing this so it's not just emotional, it's not flippant as the parent. "Do it because I told you so." That's a terrible thing to say.

Cynthia Tobias: One of the biggest complaints was, "They interrupt me and they get mad if I interrupt them, or they're looking at their phone and they're talking to me and I'm starting to tell them something and they just interrupt me." That's that modeling.

Middle schoolers need more sleep. They have to have sleep. We start school with the bus picking them up at 6:00 a.m. and it's difficult because the lack of sleep affects everything.

Jim Daly: Cynthia, you're mentioning modeling and this has come up a couple of times in the conversation. Just real quick, talk to the parent that thinks, "My job really is going to be awesome when I'm cool to my kids in middle school." I want to be the friend versus the parent.

Cynthia Tobias: Switch that. Do you think it's cool when your kids act like that? Is that what you really want them to be acting like? It doesn't make sense. Don't try to be cool, be the adult in the room. They think you're a dork if you're trying to be cool.

Sue Acuña: If you ask them, "Whose parent is cool?" "So-and-so's parent." "What makes them cool?" Then you know and they'll say things like, "They know when not to use our language, they understand our language but they know when not to use it, or they don't try and dress like us but they don't dress dorky." Kids will tell you what you need to know to be cool.

Jim Daly: Let me ask you this, even though it might not seem like your junior higher wants to engage you, Barna research and others says that my parent's influence is what's most important to me. It seems like counterintuitive because they're so connected to friends and culture at that time that they're trying to kind of get through all that, but again the research is showing us that kids believe the most important relationship in their life is their parents, still even through high school. Most of us are going, "What? That doesn't make sense." But it shows you that core connection, doesn't it?

Sue Acuña: Our point is they will always need you, but they need you differently. Not less, differently. They don't need as much control, they need more understanding, they still need guidance, they absolutely still need your comfort and reassurance.

Jim Daly: I tend to learn by my mistakes and by other people's mistakes. I observe that and say, okay, I don't want to repeat that if I can keep from repeating that. Cynthia, you had a mom come up to you after a seminar, it fits this category for me because she was so frustrated with her rebellious teen daughter. How did that conversation go and what did you say?

Cynthia Tobias: She was ultra-frustrated, she said, "I just don't understand, my daughter doesn't do anything I say and I've told her over and over again what she's supposed to do and she doesn't do it, she doesn't do what I tell her to and I am the boss and she won't respect me and she won't do it. I've just about had it. Can you tell me?" She said and stopped. "See that girl over there standing?" I looked and there's this arms-folded, sullen girl. She goes, "That's my daughter. Can you tell me how to make her love me again? Is there a point of no return?" Hopefully not, but you can't make your kids love you again. You have to earn it and you have to do a lot of the things we're talking about here and especially the barking orders, the doing that, it doesn't work.

Jim Daly: I want to be mindful of that parent that may be going, oh my goodness, that's me, that's what I've done. What can they do differently now after hearing this? They feel that conviction, conviction's a good thing. What can they do, Sue, differently tonight? What does that sound like? Play that out for me.

Sue Acuña: Admit it to your child. "Maybe I've been a little too bossy and not giving you enough credit for what you're capable of doing. So if you want me to change one thing, just give me one thing because I can't completely change myself, but what's one thing you would like me to do differently?" And then wait. Parents have a tendency to want to answer their own questions so they'll say, "What can I do differently? Do you want me to do this? Do you want me to do that?" Ask the question and wait.

Cynthia Tobias: Silence is a huge tool for building communication. Just wait and at first they might say, "Nothing." "No, I really think there's something, just wait."

And there's one really short word you can listen for and make this agreement with your child to say, "If I say something that's really off or you know, just say 'ouch.'" "I don't understand why you can't just do what I tell you to do." "Ouch." "What did I, I didn't mean it, you know, I just let's do a do-over."

Jim Daly: I like that. A catchword to say, okay, this isn't going in a good way, it hurts. This has been so good and I want to encourage you that there's more, the book is full of material things we weren't able to touch on, excellent stuff.

Also we have the Seven Traits of Effective Parenting assessment that I'd love to have you take. It's absolutely free, takes about seven to 10 minutes. It'll show you the things that you're doing well and some areas to improve in. There'll be some resources recommended that can help you in those weaker spots, but what a great assessment to be able to do and to be able to know what I need to strengthen my parenting skills in.

In terms of supporting the ministry, last year alone we helped 80,000 parents through crisis. Do you want to be part of that? Why don't we work on hitting 100,000 for next year? Join us in this journey, helping parents to build a home that loves the Lord, they love each other. Won't we have a better culture if that's the case? I think the answer is yes.

Donate monthly as you can or make a one-time gift of any amount and we'll send the book by Cynthia and Sue called *Middle School: The Inside Story: What Kids Tell Us, But Don't Tell You*. Then of course the resources Jim mentioned are all available at our website, focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Sue and Cynthia, thanks again for being with us. This is so good. I wish I could turn the clock back and be in junior high as a parent again, but you only get that one shot. This is really helpful. Thank you.

Sue Acuña: Thank you.

John Fuller: Well coming up next time, I wonder if you're ready for storms in your marriage. Just the way that life works, even for believers, and sometimes I think especially for believers, the storm is going to hit and at that point will your marriage be part of the problem or part of the solution? And that's why you want to prepare. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

I feel like I blinked and now my newborn can walk and talk. Kids change so fast, don't they? It can be hard to keep up with each new phase. That's why I love Focus on the Family's age and stage newsletter. Each week I get an email with resources curated by experts. They're full of biblically and clinically based tips tailored to your child, no matter what age they are. You can sign up today at mykidsage.com. That's mykidsage.com.