Focus on the Family

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John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family, Amber Lia and her son Ollie join us to talk about the healing that God can bring to teens who struggle with anxiety. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Teen anxiety rates have really risen over the last few years. I think with COVID, it began to show. My own son Troy was a junior/senior in high school. It was upside down. Our little school district here in Colorado Springs, they weren't really prepared to do at-home learning. There weren't the systems and all those things. So, it was unusual.

I think for those young people particularly during that COVID season, junior and seniors, freshmen/sophomores, it made a real impact on them. Social structures were changed. I remember they didn't do the prom one year, and then the next year they put tape on a floor and allowed only 10 students in the taped area.

Where you could go and co-mingle was on the deck. And guess what happened? Everybody was on the deck. I don't know what that six-foot separation was, but it was just odd. I think it had a lasting impact. We're seeing as high as 50% of teens and early 20-somethings now that have depression or anxiety. It's the highest it's ever been.

Here at Focus, we want to help you as a parent. There's no magic dust that goes over this. Even Christian kids from Christian homes are going to be impacted by these exterior inputs. We have to be savvy and smart as to how to address those needs. They're real. We experienced it in the Daly household. This is something to be taken seriously as a parent, and we want to help equip you to do that better today.

John Fuller: Our guests are Amber Lia and her son Ollie. Amber's been here before. She's a bestselling author and speaker. She's got four sons and Ollie is the oldest of those boys. He has a ministry to other teens on social media.

We're going to be talking about a book that mom and son have written called, "You Are Seen: 90 Devotions to Encourage Stressed and Anxious Teens." You can learn more about our guests and get a copy of this book from our website at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: This is great. I'm so thankful you're both here. Ollie, I really give you a lot of credit for stepping in. You're a senior in high school, and we really appreciate hearing your heart and hearing from you about what that has looked like for you and having anxiety and dealing with it.

Amber, of course, you're so in tune, and I so appreciate your parenting approaches. You're a bestselling author, speaker, and all those things. That puts a little more pressure on you, doesn't it?

Amber Lia: No pressure.

Jim Daly: Nothing like having to be perfect. But what's so true is we're just human as well. For those of us that have written books on things, we're often writing out of our own experience, our own pain, and trying to process that to help other people. That's the way I know you approach this.

Ollie, let me start with you. Again, I just admire your courage. I love it. In that context, when did you first realize, "I think I'm feeling anxious. I think I'm waking up every day..." What did it look like? Paint the picture for parents that don't really understand what it looks like to you. How old were you, and what was the beginning of that journey?

Ollie Lia: Well, first of all, thank you guys for having us. I think my story kind of began going into my freshman year of high school. We were living in California, and then we moved across the country to Tennessee. It was a very big change, very big culture shock.

As a freshman, I remember taking my first steps walking in the door. I knew one person, and that was my neighbor that literally I met that morning who drove me to school. So, it was very new. I remember walking into the class, and it was just very different for me. Lots of different people and places. I just remember feeling a little out of my zone.

I felt very uncomfortable. Honestly, I feel like that's when my anxiety kind of started to kick in because I felt like I was kind of outside. I felt like I was the new guy, and I felt like all the eyes were on me. Of course, that brought a little bit of stress and anxiety because I thought, "Am I the only one?" which was definitely an interesting chapter for me to kind of begin my high school life in.

Jim Daly: That's a great opening point that parents can miss, that when there's a big shift in life, whatever that might be—a big move or whatever—that can be a beginning point for something like that. How did it manifest for you? Describe for us, inside your own heart and mind, what those voices were saying to you.

Ollie Lia: Honestly, I think one of the main things that I struggled with walking into high school was finding friends, finding a good community. Finding people that I could surround myself in to just text and be like, "Hey, you want to go grab some coffee?" or "You want to go grab lunch?" I didn't have that.

I struggled because everybody kind of knew each other since they were born. That was very different for me. Coming from California, I was very much introducing myself to anybody that I could. It would be nice, I'd be able to have a conversation or two, and then just kind of felt distant again. It was very weird. I just remember feeling lonely.

I just remember feeling kind of sad because I felt like a people watcher almost because I could see people having relationships, laughing, and going and sitting with each other at lunch, and I just didn't know who to sit with. I didn't know those things. I felt very lonely, kind of out of what was going on in this place that I had found myself in.

I feel like that's kind of where it also kind of isolated. And this is just four years ago, right? I am still there.

Jim Daly: Those are little trigger things that happen. Amber, as a parent, were you eyes wide open? Were you looking for that? Ollie is your oldest. Okay, so this is really—you had a deck stacked against you, right? You're the oldest child, freshman year move across the country. I can't imagine all the things you were feeling.

Amber Lia: Well, and I think as a family, we were excited. Whether your child still lives in the same hometown you've always had but you're going to a new school or there's just a new season, you're excited. We tend to focus on the positive. We don't imagine necessarily that things are going to be so hard for our kids.

For Oliver and even his younger brothers that were pre-teens and teens, we started to see with Ollie in particular a bit of a shift in that he just wasn't his normal perky self. He's typically very outgoing, joyful, conversational when he'd get home. And he would start to just go up to his room and shut the door. He started to shut down little by little.

I thought, "Okay, we also were homeschoolers and then we shifted to going to school, maybe just the pressures were getting to him a little bit." I didn't realize how much it was affecting him. And he tried to mask it for a little while, too, until it got to a point where he couldn't.

Jim Daly: Put the good foot forward. I'm sure that wasn't deceptive; it was like, "I'll try to play." And then you have that feeling. Let me say it in my expression. I think I might be the dad that would go up to your room and pat you on the knee and say, "Ollie, it's going to be okay." Tell me how useless is that?

Ollie Lia: Well, genuinely it helps. My mama, she loves me, and I give her a lot of credit because I think without her, I probably wouldn't be in the place I'm in now. She really introduced the Lord to me in the place where I wasn't finding God. I would go up into my room.

It became a thing where I'd get home from school and walk straight up to my room, shut the door, and wouldn't see me until dinner, which is not myself. I'm used to being the oldest, the big family guy. I walk in and ask how my little brothers are doing and everything. My mom, she would come in and she would engage in conversations with me. I do think that I was definitely distant and felt kind of short.

Amber Lia: It was pretty hard, actually, at first. Explain a little bit about just how you were so resistant because I think that's what caught me off guard is how resistant he was at first when I would come up to try and comfort him, to try and talk with him. So when I would go up there and try to talk to him, eventually he would open up to me, but not at first.

Ollie Lia: I think I tried to do things on my own, like I can handle it. I wasn't sure. It was new. So I was kind of like, "Let me just figure this out. This is just like a school assignment. This is just some homework. I'm just feeling a little off. I can try and get this done." I really, because I did that, put myself in a far worse place than I really had to be in.

Jim Daly: So the aim was noble, but the process didn't help you is the point. I think back to my question. The thing that we need to be mindful of as parents is—and I think Jean would have a fair criticism of me as my parenting style—that I'm kind of "pick yourself up by your bootstraps and go."

That doesn't work in this spot. You've got to, as a parent, you've got to be there. You've got to move in. You can't be pushed away by that superficial kind of "I got this." You've got to keep processing and pressing into your child's heart. Speak to me as a dad in that context of how to think of this differently.

Amber Lia: Well, I think it was very important. When we started to see panic attacks begin, when we would start to see Ollie spiral into the darker places—less of the just "I've got this" and more of the "there's clearly something wrong"—when you feel so helpless as a parent, you're not sure what to do.

Even in those moments, we would come to Ollie and he would be like, "No!" and he would be very resistant and push us away. He would even tell us that sometimes he just wanted to be in that dark place. Even though he didn't want to be in that dark place, he wanted to be in that dark place.

It was really difficult as a parent. I think the key for us was to not give up. I was just committed that I wasn't going to give up on him. We sought counseling. We looked into medications, different supplements, changing his diet, making sure he got good sleep.

A lot of practical things, proactively, consistently, is what helped to eventually break down some of these barriers and help us work through some things. So for a parent, even when your child pushes you away and resists you, they don't really want you to go away. They do need you there.

To just not be personally offended by it. At first, I would get indignant and be like, "Well, you can't talk to me like that. I'm trying to help you." And then I realized quickly, "Whoa, that's not going to help." This is him feeling something that's not about me, and this isn't my child that's normally who he is. This is somebody different all of a sudden. To just continue to be patient with him and loving to him and to speak truth to him in small doses even if he rejected it in the moment.

Jim Daly: So the first thing we're hearing is, as parents, be aware of situational changes that can impact your child's emotional well-being just generally and don't be flippant about it. Engage it so that you can attack this together. Amber, let me ask you: the practical steps that parents can take to help their children who are dealing with intense anxiety. What are some of those practical steps?

Amber Lia: Well, Ollie and I are so thankful that we even have some amazing professional counselors that spoke into our lives and we include some of that in our book together, too, because we needed those practical steps.

When Oliver would get into a really deep dark place, a hole, it was almost like he was just in this pit and nothing could bring him out of it. It oftentimes was because of anticipating something that was about to happen. Even if it was a good thing, it was too much for him to handle.

Playing baseball—he loved to play baseball. But now all of a sudden, the thought of going to a game or something would be so overwhelming and anxiety-inducing that it took all the joy out of it. So we would do some practices. Like one practice we would do is we would just take a deep breath in the moment.

Oliver learned pretty quickly to do this when I wasn't around. To do some box breathing. Box breathing—describe that.

Ollie Lia: Box breathing is super simple. It's the very norm, like this is how you can start to figure out how to start managing your breathing. It's you breathe in for four seconds, so you just [inhales], then you hold it for four seconds, then you breathe out for four seconds, and then you just wait for four seconds.

So you just kind of keep that cycle. I like to think of it as a box. That's why we call it box breathing. It kind of regulates. It does. I remember multiple times where I would be sitting in my bed—I just remember it being a dark setting as well—I'd be sitting in my room, I would just genuinely be having this anxiety, this panic attack where I'd just kind of be freaking out.

I remember being worked up and my heart just beating and beating. My mom would come, she'd hold my hand. Sometimes I'd pull my hand back and pull away. She'd just say, "Ollie, just give me a second. Just give me a chance. Let's just try the box breathing." I'd say, "No, this is stupid. I don't want to do this." And she just kept on going after me, kept on pursuing me.

"Let's just try this." Eventually I tried. I did those breathing steps. My heart started slowing down. I was able to have a conversation. That is when life change began to happen because that was when a space was created where I could open up to my mom.

It was because of those practical steps that I was able to really talk about what was going on in my life. What was going on at school, in my sports team, how I was feeling, what was causing my anxiety. And that's when those conversations began.

Amber Lia: And we learned also to go along with the box breathing, because the cortisol and the stress hormones and all that—the fight or flight mechanism that's chemically going on in his body in that moment—it allows us to just get back to reality for a minute.

Instead of in that swirly place, that panic-driven place. We would do that breathing, we would just get back into our senses again. Then I would often say, "Okay Ollie, let's—I'm just going to tell you two things I'm thankful for just from today." And I would encourage him to do that.

Sometimes he would resist, but eventually, just by being persistent and consistent with him, when we'd do the breathing we'd be like, "Let's just shift from the fear of the future or the loneliness or the grief of whatever he may be processing from earlier today."

But right now there's still hope. We can still be grateful. And just trying to shift his focus to "there is good in your life right now." I know it feels dark and scary and overwhelming, but we have to take those thoughts captive and to focus on things that we can praise the Lord for even today.

John Fuller: We're hearing from Amber Lia and her son Ollie today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. So appreciate the candor and the insight that you're offering. They've written a book together that's a 90-day devotional to encourage stressed and anxious teens. It's called, "You Are Seen," and we've got copies of that here at the ministry. Stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast for more.

Jim Daly: Before we move off of this theme, there were kind of the senses grounding that you went through. Box breathing must have been one of them. What are the other senses orientation that helped you?

Ollie Lia: We had one—do you want to share this one?

Amber Lia: Sure. One of the other key things that was helpful for us was telling Oliver, "Okay, in the moment again, you're panicking, but let's try something called 5-4-3-2-1," which we learned from counselors, too. I would say to Ollie, "Okay Ollie, what are five things that you can see right now?"

Just looking around. At first your teenager, they again might resist you. Don't allow their resistance to dictate what you do as a parent. You get to lovingly keep pursuing them. When he wouldn't do it, I would sometimes even in the beginning just say it.

"Okay, I can see the necklace around your neck. I can see the blanket here on the bed. I can see the trees outside that are blowing in the wind." So just five things that you can see. And then it would be four things that you could feel. Feeling the shirt against your skin.

Three things that you could smell. Two things that you could taste. Just going through the senses one by one and allowing that again to bring us back to the present moment and not be in such a place of panic and overwhelm.

Jim Daly: Going through some of that counseling for our family, I think we underestimate the power of sense, and that's what they're connecting you with so you can get better connected with what's real.

Amber Lia: It regulates your nervous system again. These are simple things that they've learned to help reduce anxiety and depression. It's really phenomenal. They had padding a tabletop while you're doing a circle on your chest.

It just triggers aspects of your brain that help soothe it. It's so interesting. And I think it helps to build empathy and compassion as a parent for your child because you're realizing this is a really physiological thing and sometimes a spiritual thing.

We don't need to panic ourselves and think that there's something terribly wrong that we're not going to be able to work through. We can work through this. Also, again, to not take this personally and start to feel guilt as a parent.

Jim Daly: Let me ask this. We talked about "it'll be okay"—it sounds hollow to the person who is suffering from that anxiety or that depression. But Amber, I want to ask you specifically, and Ollie respond as the recipient of this: how do we as parents encourage our children to trust God when the circumstances are that hard? It feels a little bit like "it'll be okay" because that connection to the Lord can feel distant to the one who's dealing with anxiety.

Amber Lia: I absolutely know and believe that the word of God is living and active. It is useful for life, for godliness, but it is powerful in the moment. In our worst moments, it is the word of God that is going to ground me the most.

As a woman who has faithfully clung to God's word—I hunger for it. I don't have a quiet time or my own devotional time because it feels like a rote activity; I'm desperate for it. I need God that much in my life. And it is His word that has helped me the most.

In particular, I found that as a mom, refocusing Ollie on the promises of God and his identity in Christ was the most helpful scriptural direction to give him. Which is why we called our book, "You Are Seen." We wanted to put in place all of these different—15 different things that are affirming for teenagers about who they are in Christ and His promises to them.

Because when Ollie was struggling the most, I wanted him to know that the joy of the Lord is your strength. You may feel weak right now, but there is joy in the Lord. Weeping will be through the night tonight. We are going to cry some tears tonight. But Ollie, God's word says joy comes in the morning.

The Lord tells you, "Cast your cares on Him." That means you're going to have cares, you're going to have anxieties. Cast them on Him; He cares for you. And really trying to speak through the darkness to shine the light. When the light is present, the darkness has to go.

Jim Daly: How do we continue to work constructively as a parent so we're not damaging the relationship and we're continuing to put—and I don't mean this negatively, but continuing to put the spiritual breadcrumbs out there in such a way that they can say, "Hmm, this tastes good," and they move to the next one?

You just can't be the bull in the china shop parent going, "Come on, straighten up! I don't know what to do with you and it's freaking me out!"

Amber Lia: You have to lance the wound gently with the word of God as opposed to coming in like a dagger. To be really gentle spiritually with your child. I think that they know the tone is different when you can come to your child with empathy.

It's all about the way I present it, right, with great compassion. He knew that I wasn't trying to just be preachy at him and be like, "You need to feel this way." It was more, "Hey Ollie, I know this hurts. I know that you're feeling afraid. And if you're not, that's okay, but I just want you to know that I'm here for you and the Lord is here for you."

And just reminding them of those things in a gentle way.

Jim Daly: Amber, let's end with Mom speaking to moms and dads. The mom's heart to say, "Okay, if you feel like you're in this spot, don't ignore it. Don't try to just talk it out. What are those things that I need to do?" because my son, my daughter is not what they used to be in that emotional space. What do we do?

Amber Lia: Well, first of all, you're not alone. As you said at the beginning, this is a really common thing that so many teens are struggling with. As a parent, we often are caught off guard by it, we're surprised by it. We don't realize how dark and deep it's become for our teens.

In general, I think it's important that we keep our kids in prayer. That's the foundation for me; I pray so fervently for my kids. Even in those moments when I had no idea what to do because nothing I was doing was "working" with Ollie—he'd be in his room crying or just isolating—I got to a point where I would even—and I wasn't really raised this way, but I was just like, "Lord," I would take cooking oil and I would put it all around the doorframe of Oliver's door and I would just be on my knees outside his door.

When he would push me out, I would just pray over him. I would just take scriptures and I would just say, "The angel of the Lord is a guard around my son. Lord, just replace the dark thoughts with words of your truth. I cannot get through to him, but I know, Lord, that you can."

So really praying fervently for my child and recognizing that while I wanted the Lord to be Ollie's hope, He was also my hope as a mom. And I could rely on the Lord to give me wisdom and discernment and be consistent and persevering for your child.

Be proactive in getting help. Do your homework. Reach out to Focus for the resources that they offer and the counseling that they offer. Don't give up on your child and please have hope. Ollie and I, our testimony hopefully will be a great encouragement to you. It could take a long time, but don't give up on your child and don't give up on the Lord being a present help in your trouble.

Jim Daly: Well, I'd like that point of hope because don't let shame and guilt be those core principles. Let hope be the principle and make sure as a parent that we're not reinforcing shame and guilt because we didn't get the child we hoped for. My goodness, is that so far-fetched.

Amber Lia: And I have to say too, along with that Jim, one of the main things that we dealt with a lot is the shame and guilt that Ollie would feel after some episodes he would have. Then it would be the shame and the guilt for how he spoke to us or how he treated us.

I've gotten to the habit of saying to him, "Ollie, you were forgiven from the start. You're already forgiven. And again, you don't need to feel that shame or guilt." I think that's why Ollie started an Instagram called "Walkin' With Ollie" just to speak to teens and peers so that they would be able to see you don't need to hide and isolate about this. It's normal, unfortunately, you're not alone. Just remembering people that it's good to be vulnerable and it's good to connect, but don't feel shame over it.

Jim Daly: Ollie, I'm impressed. I think you continue on your path and then you can become president of Focus on the Family. You've got so many things going in your direction with the Lord. It's impressive. Well done.

Way to go, way to fight for life. You know, John 10:10 says the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. It's clever how he goes about doing that. It's to kill you emotionally, to kill you physically, and to destroy who you are made in God's image. He hates that we're made in His image.

I'm proud of the way you have fought for life—and I mean that big life, life in Christ is what the end of that scripture says, to have life in Christ and life more abundantly. It seems like you are there. It's a privilege to meet you. Always good to see you, Amber. Thanks for being with us.

Amber Lia: It's my pleasure.

Jim Daly: Let me turn to the listener. If you or your teen is really struggling with anxiety or depression, we are here for you. Our counselors can help you take some initial steps to get back to a place of peace, so give us a call.

John Fuller: Set up a free consultation with one of our caring Christian counselors when you call 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And let's get a copy of Amber and Ollie's devotional for anxious teens into your hands. This is a crucial resource because so many teens turn to smartphones or video games or worse, coping mechanisms to numb their anxiety.

"You Are Seen" can provide lasting solutions by grounding them in spiritual truth. So if you're a parent of teens or a grandparent of teens, get a copy from us here at Focus on the Family. When you make a donation of any amount, we'll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry.

At Focus, we provide so many resources like podcasts, articles, and counseling consultations completely free because we're a nonprofit ministry. If you've benefited from some of those resources over the years, like today's show, I hope you'll make a financial gift so that we can continue to offer that support to other parents, couples, foster children, and many more.

Donate today, request your copy of Ollie and Amber Lia's book when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or stop by the website; that's focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Next time, we'll hear from Joshua Becker who has some advice for how to embrace a minimalist lifestyle.

Joshua Becker: Until we started actually living that out and started—we got rid of 60 to 70% of our possessions. And when we did, I discovered, lo and behold, that Jesus knew exactly what He was talking about.

John Fuller: That's next time on Focus on the Family. And remember, when you get in touch, let us know how you're listening: on our website, through our mobile app, or on our podcast feed. I'm John Fuller and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, join us next time as we help you and your family thrive.