Focus on the Family

Announcer: This program is sponsored by Focus on the Family and is made possible through the gifts of generous friends like you.

Jim Burns: Not only did God create your body, but your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. If your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, that means the person you're dating, their body is also the temple of the Holy Spirit, so you treat them with a radical respect.

John Fuller: That's Jim Burns offering a word of encouragement to parents about teaching your children about sexual integrity. He's our guest today offering help for moms and dads from a biblical perspective. With that, welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, Jean had a great idea about how to create a Bible study for the boys when they were in fifth or sixth grade. That group, both of them—Trent’s group and Troy’s group—lasted all the way through high school. They’re best friends now and well into their 20s.

I remember "the talk." I remember the dads all got together. The kids were probably about 13 and we were like, "Okay, who's going to do that Bible study for the boys?" It was one of those where we all stepped back and one poor father was the guy that forgot to step back. There’s the volunteer! We coached him on how to give this general talk.

But the good news with that group is it did create a lot of trust between the sons and the dads. In particular, we had a really cool dad in the group, so a lot of the boys went to that dad to say, "Okay, what do I really need to know here?" He was a reserve sheriff and very fun. He had a great sense of humor and he just did a beautiful job. I think he was the one that ended up doing that talk with the boys, but of course, we all did our talk.

The important thing is, when you have children in that age group—10, 11, 12, 13—have you done enough to prepare for that discussion? It’s not going to be just one discussion; it’s going to be, "This is what it’s about, this is how to contain it and how to honor the Lord in it, and these are the consequences if you don’t."

John Fuller: Jim Burns is going to emphasize so many great practical things for us to talk about with regard to these discussions. Jim is a very popular podcaster, speaker, and writer. He’s got so much wisdom and biblical perspective.

He’s the father of three adult daughters. The book that forms the foundation of our conversation today is called *A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body*. You’ll find more about Jim and his ministry and this great book on our website at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. Obviously, a topic like this isn’t going to be suitable for younger listeners, so please keep that in mind as we begin.

Jim Daly: Jim, welcome back to Focus on the Family.

Jim Burns: It is a pleasure to be with you guys. Before the broadcast, we were all laughing. By the way, I was the youth pastor who always had to give that talk to the family. My daughters were so embarrassed. When they realized I was going to have to do that, they would be ducking and giving me scowls like, "Why are you the guy doing this, Dad?"

Jim Daly: That has to be horrible for your own kids in that setting.

Jim Burns: And then I write a book on sexuality and they just say, "This is just ridiculous." Plus, they also say, "Dad, you were awkward when you talked to us. You can talk to other kids, but you were awkward when you talked to us."

Jim Daly: Well, that’s what so many have said. When you’re speaking to a general group, especially those of us that do these kinds of talks and help kids think about these things, but then when your child is sitting in the audience or it's you one-on-one, you’re really out of sorts. That does lend a bit of credibility for how awkward this can be for parents.

Jim Burns: It is awkward. Some parents didn’t have their parents ever talk to them. In fact, most parents didn't. I was just in Austin and I was speaking to about 500 parents. I said, "How many of you received good, positive, healthy sex education from your parents when you were growing up?" There were four.

Jim Daly: Wow, in Austin? I thought it would have been 494.

Jim Burns: No, it meant that their parents didn’t talk about it. So again, they got sex education, they’re at a parenting seminar, but the fact is, usually kids get their information from the internet. They don’t get it from their parents.

Yet research shows that the more positive, value-centered sex education kids receive from home, from their parents—listen to this—the less promiscuous they’ll be and the less confused they’ll be about their sexual identity. That’s an important issue.

Jim Daly: One of the things that I’ve observed is the way that we hand this over to the world. Not that it’s within our power to do that, but the world talks about this incessantly and then we back up. I’m sure people even hearing us mention this is going to be the topic go, "Turn that off," or "How could we talk about that in public?"

This is a good thing, everybody. This is the Creator’s gift to us in the context of marriage. This is His wedding present to us. I’ve always enjoyed thinking of it that way. But a lot of people in the church, it’s "no, no, no, no, no," and then you get married and it's "yes, yes, yes, yes, yes." It’s really hard for women particularly, but also some guys too, to kind of flip that switch.

Jim Burns: You’re right. It’s really confusing—mixed messages like crazy. Well, and how do we do that in a healthier way to say, first of all, God created this. This isn’t evil. When you do it out of context, it is sinful, but it’s not what the Lord intended.

I actually think we need to bring God up. He is, after all, the master designer of our bodies. I think it’s important that we boast about God. God created you. God created your body. God wants the best for you. Yeah, there are some guardrails, but those guardrails are to make you really a more healthy and successful and blessed person if you follow His roadmap. It’s when you go down the other road it doesn't work so well.

Jim Daly: The other key thing here as we get started, Jim, is for those that blew it in high school or at some point, maybe repetitively. This is one of those areas of the human heart that has such a grip on us. That’s why pornography is so addictive and there’s just something about this area of the human experience that many people are taken down. Many pastors can’t control that appetite.

And one of the things, rather than hiding it, bringing it to the light, dealing with it, and getting help is such the better pathway. And that’s what the Lord wants out of this. So if you’re in that spot and you’re cringing because that was a weakness for you, we get it. That was true of me in high school as well. So the point of that is what do you do once you become the Christian that God has called you to be? How do you behave in that context?

You in the book talk about four core temptations that young people are going to face. What are those four?

Jim Burns: Well, one is peer pressure or the pressure to conform. I don’t think there’s been a generation—we’ve all had peer pressure when it comes to sex and sexuality—but today because of things like YouTube, TikTok, and Snapchat, it's overwhelming.

Today kids are embracing a lifestyle of sexuality that they don't even understand, but I think the culture is throwing that at us and there’s a peer pressure. If you’re a 13-year-old girl or a 13-year-old guy and you don’t want to identify as heterosexual because the kids are going to mock you for that. And again, I’m not saying all culture is horrible, but they’re the ones who are doing the teaching because we didn’t do a good job.

The other one is emotional involvement that exceeds their maturity level. So a lot of kids make sexual decisions based on emotions. "I’m in love." Well, it’s love, but it’s puppy love. We know that as adults, but they don’t. So they make decisions based on the whole idea of puppy love. Plus it’s everywhere in the culture today. I was watching the World Series a year ago and looking at some of the commercials and they were kind of sexual in nature but they’re selling shampoo. So today kids have so much of that being thrown at them.

I think there’s just so many different aspects that just are constantly bombarding us. One of the other issues is frankly that our parents don't talk about healthy Christian views on sexuality. So kids honestly don't know.

I was talking to a girl not too long ago and I love this kid. She’s about 16 years old. I said, "So are you going to take the view of culture, which changes rapidly, or there’s a master designer who created our gender?" It seems like He’s done really good for years and years, and now just recently there are some changes going on. So we have to see who are we going to go with, the Creator?

There’s a time when if you ever saw an art piece—I said I’m not really a good guy to talk about art because I don’t know a whole lot about it—but if I went to see an artist, I would rather have the person who created the artwork tell me about it than somebody who just had an opinion about the artwork. I said that’s what we’re doing with our sexuality today.

Jim Daly: That’s a good analogy. That really is. I think the other one that you mentioned, the fourth thing, is negative self-image. That’s so powerful today. I think again because of social media, boys experience this as well, but girls feel it deeply. We don’t measure up and you begin to develop a negative self-image, then somebody shows you attention and then manipulates that into physical intimacy.

Jim Burns: Well, you said it better than I did. It's just really well said because when kids have a poor self-image—or I like to call it an improper self-image—we’ve got to teach them that they were created in God’s image. That’s an important concept. But if they have that poor self-image, they’re going to do anything to get the attention. Sometimes it’s in the world of sexuality, other times it’s other stuff. Us guys, we do goofy stuff because our self-images are poor and we want somebody to like us or somebody to appreciate us. Not you when you were growing up, but all John and I did.

Jim Daly: Did I give you the "speak for yourself" look? I was on the football team, so I’ll leave it at that. But the point of all that is young people today are getting a lot of input. Moms and dads, this is why we’re doing the program: to encourage you to embrace that God-given role, the biblical role of mentoring your children even in these tender areas of human sexuality and what it means to be committed heart, soul, and body to the person that you’re married to or going to marry.

I’ve tried to do that with my boys. There is so much pressure though, and so much accessibility. So let me ask you that, as a parent now, speaking parent to parent. What do you do with a 10, 11, 12, 13-year-old? What’s your goal as the parent? Because I think Jean and I, we went, "Yep, build the wall. Let’s go." We put all the filters on, we talked to them and said, "Hey, all the filters are on, so beware if you look at something, we’re going to know about it." I’m being a little over the top, but you get the idea.

Jim Burns: No, but I think you’re right that that’s what we’ve done. What we didn’t do was go farther. I’m not saying this is with you and Jean, but I think a lot of times we built the walls but we didn’t say why we’re building the walls. We didn’t help them understand that aspect.

And we also didn’t say, when we look at sexuality created by God, it’s not that, it’s this. So even when your kid at age 10, the boys are probably going to have seen pornography. I just saw—you can Google me on this, but it’s 11.8 with young women now. Age 11.8 that they see it, the average age. So that’s why we’ve got to talk to them younger.

But the point being is we have to teach them even if they see it. You have to say, "No, it’s not this, it’s that." And again you’re going back to the aspect of God created sex. God sees it as very good; that’s Genesis 1 and 2. Does He have guardrails? Sure He has guardrails. This is what adultery is. This is what fornication/immorality—there’s a Greek word, *porneia*, which is translated correctly in the Scripture now, immorality—but it’s also what we used to use with fornication, which means sex outside of marriage.

So God put up guardrails not because He’s the great killjoy, but because He wants the best for us. And sometimes parents are afraid to have that conversation, you mentioned that, because they didn’t do it right or they struggled with porn. The dad struggled with porn, the moms maybe were promiscuous. And what I always say to them is you don’t have to tell them everything, but you do want to say, "Look, one of the reasons I have a passion to help you make good decisions is because I didn’t always make good decisions." And just kind of leave it at that.

But we need to be authentic with how we do this. And really we have to change the narrative. It was Francis Schaeffer, a theologian from a long time ago, who said every generation you have to recreate the way you communicate the Gospel. You don’t change the Gospel, but you recreate the way you communicate it. Well, I think we’re in a generation today as parents and with kids that we have to recreate the way we communicate sexual integrity and not just try to shame them into doing it or only talking about the walls.

Jim Daly: Jim, I’m thinking when I have a psychologist on, we’re talking about affirmation versus negative and all the research shows you have to have at least five affirmations to overcome one critical criticism. I think I would apply something like this in this space. You need like five positive discussions with your child for every negative input that’s going to hit them to give them a healthy perspective.

Jim Burns: I think we do that. And what I say is instead of one 100-minute conversation where you sit them down at the table and you kind of go through the whole thing—I don’t think that works. In fact, research says it doesn’t work. I think we have 100 one-minute conversations.

I like that. So we’re looking for ways to do it. So you’re watching a television show and you see two girls kiss and you go, "Hey, what do you think of that?" and you put it on pause. Or they tell you about a song that they heard and you kind of go, "What do you think about that?" And then you begin teaching through a positive what I call a theology of healthy sexuality. Theology is just the study of God—what does God have to say about it? And healthy sexuality is about our bodies.

So you do that and all of a sudden you’ve had these talks for years with them. And that’s a lot better than the one-minute sit at the table and then you go for an hour.

Jim Daly: You know, one of the difficulties with that, if I could speak on behalf of the awkward parents—which I think we’re all that at some point—it’s how you respond in that moment. What you just said there unfortunately I perceive is the minority response. Meaning when you say, "Whoa, what just happened there? What do you think of that?" Normally I think we as the Christian parent say, "Hey, hey, what are we watching here? Where's the remote control?" And then we leave it. We don’t have that discussion.

I really want parents to hear what you just said. You’ve got to ask a question like, "What does that communicate to you?"

Jim Burns: No, exactly. I think we have to listen a lot more to our kids. We have to be students of them.

Jim Daly: Why is that so hard for us as parents?

Jim Burns: Well, it's because we want to tell them. And a lot of times we’re right. It's a lot easier. And plus we’re right a lot of times. In our mind, it's every time. But if you're in your kid’s mind, it’s not every time.

But the point that I’m saying is it's, yeah, we’ve got to have these kind of conversations so that they make the decision, not we. That’s about our spiritual faith as well, becoming Christians. I can’t become a Christian for my kids. It’s the same with making good, healthy sexual decisions. To do that, there have to be more questions and dialogue.

And when the kids get used to that, then they’ll open up. But that’s why when kids are three to five, you say, "Hey, God made your body. God made boys and God made girls." And then you even name body parts. And I know that’s awkward, but we need to name those body parts at like age three to five. That’s sex education without talking about the kind of things that you talk about to your teens.

Jim Daly: There's two goals and they’re not necessarily the same. One is to protect them from bad situations. The other is to equip them for making the right decisions to not be in bad situations.

John Fuller: Jim Burns is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We’re talking about some of the content in his terrific little resource, *A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body*. And we’ve got this and other resources to help you in this ongoing conversation with your child all at our website, and the link is FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Jim, I want to ask this question and it is just one that popped into my head, but I think it’s so critical: how we as parents become that safe place. Kind of like what we set the program up with, that dad—and this guy is Mr. Cool and he has great stories and he's funny and the boys gravitate to him because he relates to them and he’s very interesting. How do we become that safe place for our kids to want to and trust that they could come to us with a question on sexuality and they’ll feel healthy in that transaction?

Jim Burns: Well, part of it is us not preaching and lecturing. We have to lead with love and know that kindness matters. And I think we have to do that and I think it’s important for us to have dialogue. And the earlier we start this, the better, to be honest. It’s going to be a lot easier for teens if we’ve already been having these conversations.

The question I ask is who’s the safest person for them to talk to about sex? My dad and mom were not the safest people. You know why? Not because they were negative; they just didn’t ever talk to me about it. It was just nothing. So I wasn’t going to go learn about the birds and the bees from them because I wasn’t going to ask them questions. They’d never brought it up. They asked about my grades, they asked about my sports, they asked about my friends, but they never brought up a very important subject for me, which was dating and sexuality and all that kind of stuff.

So we become the safe ones when they say, "You know what? Mom will listen to me. Dad will listen to me and not be super-judgy." Because a lot of times they’ll start going in on something and then we do the interrupt thing where we say, "No, absolutely not. They’re all wrong." And maybe they are wrong, but I think we need to hear them out because they’re exploring. Sometimes when they’re talking to you, it’s not like they’ve made up their mind which goes against the grain of their spirituality or the Bible. They’re just trying to explore with you. So we have to be really patient and let them kind of talk through that. Why? Lots of questions, and the questions help.

Jim Daly: You mentioned in the book this integrity code that guided you. What is the integrity code and how do we apply it?

Jim Burns: Well, I think what I love about the integrity code is I don’t think it’s a shaming thing. I think it’s something that’s really awesome that kids can look for and I think they need a roadmap.

So the integrity code goes like this: in honor of God—so we’re going to bring God into the picture—in honor of my family—we’re going to bring the family into the picture and the family usually isn’t in the picture either—so God and my family, and all that God wants for me. So you’re looking to the future. All that God wants for me, I commit to sexual integrity.

And so when kids do that, there are kids who say that thing. And we had purity codes and we had other things that kind of didn’t work so well, but this here when—I mean who doesn’t want to live with sexual integrity? And then you explain what sexual integrity is. Very biblical: honor God with your body. It’s right out of 1 Corinthians 6:20. Honor God with your body. Renew your mind for good. I tell kids the most powerful sex organ is not your private parts, it’s your mind. And so we renew your mind, Romans 12:1-2. Then it’s turn your eyes from worthless things, taken right out of Psalm 119. And then guard your heart.

And I’ll say to people who are adults, I’ll say if your parents taught you about sex education, did they teach you how to guard your heart? The Bible says in Proverbs 23, guard your heart above all else for it determines the course of your life. So it's not a scripture just on sex, but if we could get our kids to learn to guard their hearts. And that’s a money issue, it’s a faith issue, it’s a sexual issue. If we could teach them that early, that’s their roadmap. Now there’s a lot of other things you’ve got to talk about—purity, dating, all kinds of things—but when it comes to it, that’s the overall roadmap. And I love that integrity code. And you know what? Kids sort of get it and they go, "Okay, I can do that. I want to do that."

I did that with my daughter Heidi. We went through it at 16 because I took her on the one-night overnight date. She got 11 with her mom and at 16 with me. And she goes, "I want that." And when she said that, tears came into my eyes because I didn’t know how she was going to react. She was the cute, fun, popular cheerleader girl and I didn’t know what she was going to say. She goes, "I want that." But it was as if she didn’t know that and I wish I wouldn’t have waited till she was 16 to help her with that.

John Fuller: Now along those lines, Jim, in the book you have a story of a young woman who I think she was like 16, 15-16, at a sleepover. And she was encouraged by friends to try some things sexually. So the culture’s here and the kids are sometimes caught between good things that their parents want them to do and the cultural forces. What’s the story and what’s the lesson?

Jim Burns: It's a really interesting story and I think parents need to hear this because she was 14. I’m going to call her Katie, but that’s not her real name, of course. And she was one of these girls who, just a great kid, we know her personally, we know the family. And but she didn’t like wearing dresses and she didn’t wear pink and she was better than most boys in softball. And she was just a neat kid.

But because she didn’t dress like a girl in her mind and other people’s minds, she had a friend who said she had learned two weeks ago what a lesbian was. And so the friend said, "You know, I think I might be a lesbian." She goes, "What’s a lesbian?" She explained it and she goes, "That’s weird." I mean she didn’t know. She was pretty innocent.

Long story short, within a pretty short time they were in a relationship. And so she began to identify as a lesbian at 14. And I was a youth pastor. When girls cut themselves or they had an eating disorder, nobody thought that was a good idea, but she got all kinds of embracement and affirmation. So she goes, "Well, I must be."

About a year and a half later, so it’s a longer story, about a year and a half later after this big conversation at the sleepover, about a year and a half later she went to Christian camp. They weren’t even talking about sex, but as she grew in her faith, she went, "I don’t think I’m one of those." And so she has made the road sort of out.

Now today she’s 18 years old, she’s a freshman at Biola University, and she’s doing well, but she has baggage. So I just got chills because I’m so happy for her, but I also know she’s walking a harder life because of the baggage. But at 14 she was so innocent. Low self-esteem, we talked about that earlier, and her emotional involvement with this girl exceeded her maturity level because she wasn’t even sure she was, but she still doesn’t wear a lot of dresses, okay, but she now feels secure in her sexual integrity and her sexual identity.

Jim Daly: Jim, that gender dysphoria thing is so disruptive and you just look at the data. And again, everything that you’ve talked about here from a biblical standpoint is the antidote to so much of that: good self-esteem, your identity in Christ, that God chose your gender right from the womb as you were created.

Science can tell us some things in there, and some of those facts right now are kind of so disturbing. 4,000 to 9,000 percent increase in gender dysphoria. That’s not genetic. When you have that kind of thing, that’s peer pressure and it’s cool to be this. Why are we allowing this to happen?

Jim Burns: No, we’re seeing this change. And what’s interesting is the research isn’t coming from Christian input; it’s coming from the secular world. Right. And I did my PhD in England and where I learned that a very small percent of boys around eight years old had a gender dysphoria experience, but it was hardly a blip in the screen. And then all of a sudden now like you said, you used huge numbers.

So what we have to understand is that doesn’t just happen over a couple of decades. That’s an issue of the culture. And so we can get angry at the culture or we can say wait there’s some things we can do about this. And again we still have to lead with love and practice kindness, but we’ve got to help these kids understand their identity that’s rooted in Christ.

Jim Daly: Let’s end here. You use the term radical respect. I like that. Radical just seems to fit, everybody wants to be radical. What’s radical respect?

Jim Burns: Radical respect is teaching kids that not only did God create your body, but your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And if your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, that means the person you're dating, also their body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So you treat them with a radical respect.

So it’s not just that oh, this girl or this guy is cute, this girl or this guy, you know, they have a fun personality, but no, they are actually a child of God. And so we honor them with a radical type of respect. And part of that is in our sexuality, part of that is in the way we treat them, part of that is in just how we relate to not just in terms of boyfriend/girlfriend, but anybody. It’s how we as men relate to women. We relate to them with a radical respect. I want to teach a million kids to radically respect the opposite sex, or we’re talking about same-sex relationships, with a radical respect. And that means we’re going to treat them as if God lives within that other person’s body because He does.

Jim Daly: And you can achieve that as a parent. That’s the goal. Jim, this has been great. There’s so much, we could just keep going on this subject, but we’ve done a good job of kind of skimming the surface of your book, *A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body*. And the rest is up to the parents and the grandparents where they have that good permission from the adult son or daughter.

Get a copy from us here at Focus on the Family. This is probably, when you’re looking at the most important parenting component, I would say this is it, because the culture is coming at your kids. This is specifically for teens, *A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity*. So get in touch with us. You can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send it as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Seriously, $10 would be great and we’ll send you the book.

John Fuller: Get in touch today. Our number is 800-232-6459. That’s 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or you can stop by FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast.

And coming up next time, one couple’s journey through infertility to discover something better for their family: adoption.

Guest (Female): But there is another side, but you have to go through it. You have to sit there, you have to be in it and let God’s grace meet you there and then you’ll find your way out. There is a way out.

John Fuller: That’s next time on Focus on the Family and remember when you get in touch let us know how you’re listening: on our website, through our mobile app, or on our podcast feed. I’m John Fuller and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, join us next time as we help you and your family thrive.

Announcer: Hey parents, parent here. If you're searching for biblical and practical tips for your kid's specific age—you know, with all that extra time you have—well, you can stop. Focus on the Family has weekly age and stage emails that bring the tips to you. Each week I get an email for my son that I can read on my phone and put directly into practice. No more sifting through junk on the internet. I can focus my time on being intentional. It's easy: visit MyKidsAge.com, add your kid's age, and get to parenting better. That's MyKidsAge.com.